What happened to...
[R8]DJBourgeoisie![[R8]DJBourgeoisie](https://forumsdata.unknownworlds.com/uploads/ipb/nav-62176.jpg)
Join Date: 2007-09-05 Member: 62176Members
Join Date: 2007-09-05 Member: 62176Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Core experiences of NS1 missing in NS2</div>These are the things that got me hooked on NS1, and kept me playing.
-Dropping a ninja phase gate, beaconing all marines to base, and shotgun rushing a hive.
-Moving as a squad to a siege point, holding off aliens while advanced turret factory was researching, then dropping siege turrets and pushing in.
-Rushing into marine start taking out a key structure (advanced armory) setting up a push on a marine controlled hive.
-Protecting the GL'er while he targeted the hive/structures.
-Retaking a hive after marines have "locked it down" with a phase gate/turret factory/turrets/sieges/obs.
-The gorge rush.
-Relocating to "random" points in levels not always in a hive.
-Re-taking a 3rd hive from the marines and preparing for their counter-attack which decides victory or defeat.
-Welding through a door to take down a hive (was fun for both teams attacking and defending)
I have yet to experience any of my favorite things about NS1 in NS2 and it bothers me. It isn't the same game and I get that, but when I hear NS, I think of the above. I've taken at look at how things are implemented in both games and can't help but feel the new implementation of multiple features may have a "cool factor" about them in NS2, but the impact on game play seems to be a let down imo.
I'll use turrets and sieges as an example. Sure its cool to have a mobile siege turret, but the aliens can see it coming and attack it long before it ever reaches it's destination. You have very little chance of ever sneaking into position like in NS1. As turrets go, again it's cool you can drop and aim and re-position them, but the limited attack radius of them makes them much less cost efficient. My point here I guess is I feel too much emphasis is being put on making things more complicated and cool looking but not enough consideration is on the result of those things.
I'm gonna keep this short and sweet, I just wanted to make my point. I did not make this post to troll or say NS1 was a better game or want to come across as telling UWE what they should do, I just want to get my thoughts out there in case others feel the same way. I want NS2 to succeed like everyone, but the real magic that made me an NS addict just isn't there for me in NS2.
-Dropping a ninja phase gate, beaconing all marines to base, and shotgun rushing a hive.
-Moving as a squad to a siege point, holding off aliens while advanced turret factory was researching, then dropping siege turrets and pushing in.
-Rushing into marine start taking out a key structure (advanced armory) setting up a push on a marine controlled hive.
-Protecting the GL'er while he targeted the hive/structures.
-Retaking a hive after marines have "locked it down" with a phase gate/turret factory/turrets/sieges/obs.
-The gorge rush.
-Relocating to "random" points in levels not always in a hive.
-Re-taking a 3rd hive from the marines and preparing for their counter-attack which decides victory or defeat.
-Welding through a door to take down a hive (was fun for both teams attacking and defending)
I have yet to experience any of my favorite things about NS1 in NS2 and it bothers me. It isn't the same game and I get that, but when I hear NS, I think of the above. I've taken at look at how things are implemented in both games and can't help but feel the new implementation of multiple features may have a "cool factor" about them in NS2, but the impact on game play seems to be a let down imo.
I'll use turrets and sieges as an example. Sure its cool to have a mobile siege turret, but the aliens can see it coming and attack it long before it ever reaches it's destination. You have very little chance of ever sneaking into position like in NS1. As turrets go, again it's cool you can drop and aim and re-position them, but the limited attack radius of them makes them much less cost efficient. My point here I guess is I feel too much emphasis is being put on making things more complicated and cool looking but not enough consideration is on the result of those things.
I'm gonna keep this short and sweet, I just wanted to make my point. I did not make this post to troll or say NS1 was a better game or want to come across as telling UWE what they should do, I just want to get my thoughts out there in case others feel the same way. I want NS2 to succeed like everyone, but the real magic that made me an NS addict just isn't there for me in NS2.
Comments
I still do this all the time as comm, power packs allow for the ninja element, and once map sight on infestation is removed for aliens (next patch hopefully), you will see a lot more of that for sure. Also GL and SG rushes in general are still a big thing, arguably even one of the best ways to win as marines currently, with or without PGs (depending on starting positions)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Moving as a squad to a siege point, holding off aliens while advanced turret factory was researching, then dropping siege turrets and pushing in.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yea, ARC trains being built safely in base is a hot topic being discussed ever since they were implemented. I'm sure we haven't seen the last of it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Rushing into marine start taking out a key structure (advanced armory) setting up a push on a marine controlled hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still see that occasionally, certainly when good players are around, though unfortunately a lot of players are completely oblivious to the importance of taking out arms labs, observatories, shells and (in 206) alien extractors in the hive room early on. It's like skulks wasting time on biting power nodes, it takes time for a 'metagame' to evolve.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Protecting the GL'er while he targeted the hive/structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another hot topic, I personally too really miss having a trade-off on GLs. Currently they're just a nobrainer upgrade when you have the p.res for them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Retaking a hive after marines have "locked it down" with a phase gate/turret factory/turrets/sieges/obs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I still see this happen regularly, often lerks with bilebombs lead the way on this. (Or onos powernode rushes) Though this only happens in 'longer' games, which are still somewhat uncommon in NS 2. (Marines tend to just get stomped once aliens get augment up, no time or res to properly lock down a hive room.)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The gorge rush.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Alive and kicking since 206
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Relocating to "random" points in levels not always in a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Another hot topic, though UWE is definitely sticking to their guns on this one.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->-Re-taking a 3rd hive from the marines and preparing for their counter-attack which decides victory or defeat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again not very common due to the absence of long games (and by long games I mean long games that aren't just games already won by either side which are just being dragged out, particularly marines are good at dragging out their defeat, with sentryspam) Will hopefully improve when proper balancing is done.
Anyway, I'd say hang in there, really. Most of the stuff you loved in NS 1 is still there in one form or another, or is definitely going to come back. As an oldskool NS player myself, I had a hard time accepting some of the big design changes as well, particularly the alien khammander addition, but I've slowly come around and have really started enjoying NS 2. (despite all it's flaws, which are hopefully just temporarily)
These are the things that got me hooked on NS1, and kept me playing.
-Dropping a ninja phase gate, beaconing all marines to base, and shotgun rushing a hive.
-Moving as a squad to a siege point, holding off aliens while advanced turret factory was researching, then dropping siege turrets and pushing in.
-Rushing into marine start taking out a key structure (advanced armory) setting up a push on a marine controlled hive.
-Protecting the GL'er while he targeted the hive/structures.
-Retaking a hive after marines have "locked it down" with a phase gate/turret factory/turrets/sieges/obs.
-The gorge rush.
-Relocating to "random" points in levels not always in a hive.
-Re-taking a 3rd hive from the marines and preparing for their counter-attack which decides victory or defeat.
I have yet to experience any of my favorite things about NS1 in NS2 and it bothers me. It isn't the same game and I get that, but when I hear NS, I think of the above. I've taken at look at how things are implemented in both games and can't help but feel the new implementation of multiple features may have a "cool factor" about them in NS2, but the impact on game play seems to be a let down imo.
I'll use turrets and sieges as an example. Sure its cool to have a mobile siege turret, but the aliens can see it coming and attack it long before it ever reaches it's destination. You have very little chance of ever sneaking into position like in NS1. As turrets go, again it's cool you can drop and aim and re-position them, but the limited attack radius of them makes them much less cost efficient. My point here I guess is I feel too much emphasis is being put on making things more complicated and cool looking but not enough consideration is on the result of those things.
I'm gonna keep this short and sweet, I just wanted to make my point. I did not make this post to troll or say NS1 was a better game or want to come across as telling UWE what they should do, I just want to get my thoughts out there in case others feel the same way. I want NS2 to succeed like everyone, but the real magic that made me an NS addict just isn't there for me in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
its been echoed for awhile, deaf ears. waste of time, just hope someone makes a good mod.
<!--quoteo(post=1932063:date=May 1 2012, 02:53 AM:name=[R8]DJBourgeoisie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([R8]DJBourgeoisie @ May 1 2012, 02:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1932063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I've taken at look at how things are implemented in both games and can't help but feel the new implementation of multiple features may have a "cool factor" about them in NS2, but the impact on game play seems to be a let down imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... is how I feel about NS2.
Is the version on the ds server atm.
-Relocating to "random" points in levels not always in a hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I wish this was still possible. Especially once ns1 map remakes start finishing. Playing eclipse wont quite be the same if you cant relocate to keyhole/loop. Likewise with ns_nothing and generator room (though I suspect this will be make a tech-point anyway).
One thing i'm also going to miss is rushing to take down the obs when attacking marine start. Even though there's beacon, it doesn't revive everybody anymore (and thank god, as it would be way too overpowered now it can beacon to different tech points other than marine start). Therefore, most of the time anyway, it's probably better to go straight for the power node (unless they're all alive and out on a rush away from base, in which case, maybe obs first as it takes less to kill than a power node).
But other things<i> are </i>still there - gorges rushes for one -<i> and</i> NS2 has things NS1 didn't like awesome gorge gardens, goo sculptures, and infestation.
-Protecting the GL'er while he targeted the hive/structures.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd really want a more specialized GL (as in NS1), it's much more interesting with trade-offs and choices, and it would really make for some better teamplay and strategies. I hope we see this some time.
Should I have been reading that in a sarcastic voice?
NS2 still has some good/great moments, but it is clogged up with extra stuff that isnt holding together quite yet.
NS2 is too procedural right now, or at least that is the word i think of.
This is something i dont like. NS1 has choices when rushing a base: Kill the AA to slow the marines, Kill the obs to make all available marines run home, Kill an arms lab to give a brief Focus advantage (one shot kill), Kill the Proto Lab to halt jps and heavies for a time, and griefing the IP for free RFK on spawn. There were CHOICES.
Now it just rush the powernode or munch the CC for an easy win.
If i have to deal with 2 hour long turtle games just so i can get the NS1 choices back, ill take it gladly.
this topic will die like anything relating to NS1 generally here, fanboys don't like it and newcomers have no idea what that is.
this topic will die like anything relating to NS1 generally here, fanboys don't like it and newcomers have no idea what that is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't monitor these forums enough to know what has ever been said in the past but I want to personally state that I embrace change when it is justified/needed and actually improves the game. Changing things for the sake of making them "cool" or more complicated does not make something necessarily better.
The core experience of NS should not be changed imo, rather built upon and upgraded where warranted. I'm not sure if UWE feels they actually have changed either intentionally or unintentionally the core experience but I just wanted to make my case for why I think it feels like a completely different game and not a proper sequel. For the record there are things I like in NS2 and think UWE did a great job on making improvements on things such as marines getting their own weapons at the armory etc. It's the odd changes that killed the NS game play I know and loved that I don't agree with and I was just curious why.
He said NS2 is a sequal not a remake. He's allowing - and encouraging - all NS2 players to mod the game.
It's not like Battlefield 3 where they made a screwed version of Battlefield 2, AND stopped anyone from modding the new game.
Anyway back to the topic...
...I miss commanders dropping the weapons for marines, and having that military hierarchy which made rines feel so different from aliens.
Changing things for the sake of making them "cool" or more complicated does not make something necessarily better.
It's the odd changes that killed the NS game play I know and loved that I don't agree with and I was just curious why.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
one intent was to reduce the learning curve for a casual player with shorter/mediumish game lengths, on average. pretty sure that was the driver for some of the ideas - fixed tech points, lines of control (powernodes, infestation). also, idea is to have reasonable balance over various game sizes, hence resource model.
im not convinced the learning curve has been helped all that much by the new features. also, not clear if the res model will really solve the balance problem with various game sizes yet either - in theory perhaps. need feature complete, high performing game to test with various sizes.
But ... i expect the game will end up with more varied and dynamic play than it has now.
That is a change I can live with and while I don't disagree with you about it reducing the marine/commander relationship I definitely find it a good thing. A player who does things well by building structures and helping the team in ways other than being a good shooter should be able to purchase upgraded weapons if he/she so chooses regardless of the commander thinking he's a noob and not deserving of a better gun.
-Retaking a hive after marines have "locked it down" with a phase gate/turret factory/turrets/sieges/obs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Really need hive teleportation like in NS1 for that.
I miss how damn beefy the com chair was in NS1. After a reloc it would often be the one building left in marine start but would survive for a very long time (just cause no one wanted to waste time killing the damn thing!) You know what they say, a safe comm is a happy comm.
I miss how damn beefy the com chair was in NS1. After a reloc it would often be the one building left in marine start but would survive for a very long time (just cause no one wanted to waste time killing the damn thing!) You know what they say, a safe comm is a happy comm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha yeah those things even *looked* more <b>solid</b> than the current ones, which just look like 4 walls made out of some sheets of metal that an onos could stab through in one hit.
when the game is complete and a lot o people playing it (some hilarious ones), come back and make this post again...
I know alot of people who have the same concerns as you, and many of us have been very vocal about the whole thing, but in alot of ways feel ignored.
NS2 just isnt what NS1 was, and it may never be.
<b>-Dropping a ninja phase gate, beaconing all marines to base, and shotgun rushing a hive.</b>
~I have done this with a phase gate and a power pack and a very clever and good marine who got into a good spot in Flight Control on Summit, but yes it is not happening as much anymore.
<b>-Rushing into marine start taking out a key structure (advanced armory) setting up a push on a marine controlled hive.</b>
~THis is also missing, but like the ninja phase gate I think it has to do with the <i><b>SMALL MAPS!!! WHERE BIG MAPS??? WHERE?</b>Also it has to do with the players more than the game itself.</i>
<b>-Protecting the GL'er while he targeted the hive/structures.</b>
~Class differentiation is missing as well but I don't know if this is a big deal until we get exosuits and shift chambers 2 years from now.
-Retaking a hive after marines have "locked it down" with a phase gate/turret factory/turrets/sieges/obs.
<b>-The gorge rush.</b>
~Now lerk rush?
<u><b>-Relocating to "random" points in levels not always in a hive.</b></u>
~This is something which I wish was in NS2. I don't like being restricted like that. Its much more fun if you have total freedom of map control.
-Re-taking a 3rd hive from the marines and preparing for their counter-attack which decides victory or defeat.
~Dunno.
I don't know if any of these points have to do with NS1 having more appeal right now, but the relocation restriction is definitely part of it.