One of the main reasons NS1 maps feel bigger is because they had many rooms with huge ceiling heights , especially the hives, while NS2 maps are made up of smaller rooms and corridors (I think mineshaft has the biggest open room)
The NS1 maps were also a lot cleaner with more smooth walls compared to NS2 which has a lot more geometry, which makes everything seem tighter
just watch the NS1 3.0 trailer: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbR7wUoNBg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbR7wUoNBg</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1933968:date=May 6 2012, 10:17 PM:name=Master Blaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Master Blaster @ May 6 2012, 10:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1933968"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The people who cannot be bothered to learn so-called "complex" maps should stick to Angry Birds.
This is not Angry Birds.
Let's not go down this slippery slope of making NS2 be Call of Duty: Alien Warfare<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, UWE wouldn't want to sell 10 bazillion copies or anything. What a nightmare. Thank goodness you are here to remind them of the perils of such a thing, you selfless soul you.
Actually you could argue that NS1 levels were easier to navigate than NS2 ones thus far. NS1 levels obviously had much less detail and had less repetitive use of geometry which is one downside of going with a prop heavy system for detailing walls etc in NS2. When you see the same color pallet and props lining walls all over the place it tends to all blend together more than in NS1. I don't recall, but is there an always active mini-map on the players screen? I know you can press a key and it opens a much larger map, but one easy thing that I think would help with a lot of the navigation issues not only myself but other people seem to have would be putting a smaller less obtrusive mini-map in the corner of a screen and you could toggle it to its full screen version. Personally I dislike having a mini-map active all the time in games but the spiderweb like layouts of NS levels almost demand one.
*edit*
Also, maps were much brighter in NS1 than in NS2, with a few exceptions where maps like Nancy and Bast had rather dark atmospheric rooms which coincidentally were less popular with communities I was part of.
<!--quoteo(post=1934148:date=May 7 2012, 07:20 AM:name=Imbalanxd)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Imbalanxd @ May 7 2012, 07:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934148"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ye, UWE wouldn't want to sell 10 bazillion copies or anything. What a nightmare. Thank goodness you are here to remind them of the perils of such a thing, you selfless soul you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are such a pleasure on this forum.
If they want to sell "10 bazillion" copies then the game should look like a serious game, not something a computer science major produced in his or her spare time.
They are selling this multiplayer-only game for $35 as an unknown company with no marketing budget, not $0.99 via iPhones or as the sequel to a million-dollar franchise.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited May 2012
99 cents or 35 dollars makes no difference in deciding to utilize intuitive game design and feedback for the new player. You can have a highly complex and large map but still maintain those two philosophies previously mentioned. FMPONE is pretty good about this sorta thing
<!--quoteo(post=1934161:date=May 7 2012, 08:39 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ May 7 2012, 08:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1934161"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->99 cents or 35 dollars makes no difference in deciding to utilize intuitive game design and feedback for the new player. You can have a highly complex and large map but still maintain those two philosophies previously mentioned. FMPONE is pretty good about this sorta thing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this buzzword "intuitive" is extremely subjective.
If a game is streamlined well, then it's great.
However, if intuitive game design means making all maps small and highly symmetric, not using weldpoints, and generally reducing overall gameplay options and variety, then this becomes a $10 Steam Indie game.
Dragon Age 2's gameplay was inexplicably "streamlined" to the point where it ruined the whole franchise. It was dumbed-down and gutted and it alienated EVERYONE who enjoyed the first game. Mass Effect did this as well. Even Bethesda reduced a lot of its gameplay options and statistics in Skyrim to sell to the inexperienced players. Did it work? Not for EA and Bioware. They are listed as the worst company in America.
You could say "But Dragon Age II still sold lots of copies" but this is only because of the success of the first game, the brand recognition and marketing budgets. It does not follow ceteris paribus when comparing this to anything UWE will sell right now.
First you have to produce a game that innovates dramatically and brings something new to the table that fits an unfilled niche, <i>then</i> you can talk about selling to the new players.
Call of Duty can get away with the $60 price because of their brand recognition and marketing. UWE doesn't have either of those things, so in my educated opinion they need to keep focusing on filling the demand for multiplayer games that do not play like COD. NS2 <i>is </i> doing that, and I believe that the map design will be one of the most significant factors in the success of this game.
I believe a lot of the issues people have with NS2 right now can be solved by the maps. The maps can make or break the game. The people (myself included) who would like to see more of NS1 in NS2 can be satisfied by a well-made map.
So the question is really "Will UWE do this well?"
And the answer is that we'll all have to wait until summer and see. Wait...isn't it summer now?
UWE brought something new to the table with NS1 but that was a half-life modification. If they produce NS2 in the same spirit with the similar gameplay, then that will still fill a niche demand because no major company has produced anything like Natural Selection because they do not take dramatic leaps when they can make steady income off of Call of Duty 12: Modern Warfare 10.
The bottom line? If you have no marketing budget and no brand recognition, you have to actually make a great game to sell "10 bazillion copies" at $35.
/As always, this is the meaningless opinion of a random NS player, so don't write nasty letters :)
Comments
The NS1 maps were also a lot cleaner with more smooth walls compared to NS2 which has a lot more geometry, which makes everything seem tighter
just watch the NS1 3.0 trailer: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbR7wUoNBg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJbR7wUoNBg</a>
This is not Angry Birds.
Let's not go down this slippery slope of making NS2 be Call of Duty: Alien Warfare<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye, UWE wouldn't want to sell 10 bazillion copies or anything. What a nightmare. Thank goodness you are here to remind them of the perils of such a thing, you selfless soul you.
*edit*
Also, maps were much brighter in NS1 than in NS2, with a few exceptions where maps like Nancy and Bast had rather dark atmospheric rooms which coincidentally were less popular with communities I was part of.
You are such a pleasure on this forum.
If they want to sell "10 bazillion" copies then the game should look like a serious game, not something a computer science major produced in his or her spare time.
They are selling this multiplayer-only game for $35 as an unknown company with no marketing budget, not $0.99 via iPhones or as the sequel to a million-dollar franchise.
Something tells me you don't study business.
You can have a highly complex and large map but still maintain those two philosophies previously mentioned.
FMPONE is pretty good about this sorta thing
You can have a highly complex and large map but still maintain those two philosophies previously mentioned.
FMPONE is pretty good about this sorta thing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe this buzzword "intuitive" is extremely subjective.
If a game is streamlined well, then it's great.
However, if intuitive game design means making all maps small and highly symmetric, not using weldpoints, and generally reducing overall gameplay options and variety, then this becomes a $10 Steam Indie game.
Dragon Age 2's gameplay was inexplicably "streamlined" to the point where it ruined the whole franchise. It was dumbed-down and gutted and it alienated EVERYONE who enjoyed the first game. Mass Effect did this as well. Even Bethesda reduced a lot of its gameplay options and statistics in Skyrim to sell to the inexperienced players. Did it work? Not for EA and Bioware. They are listed as the worst company in America.
You could say "But Dragon Age II still sold lots of copies" but this is only because of the success of the first game, the brand recognition and marketing budgets. It does not follow ceteris paribus when comparing this to anything UWE will sell right now.
First you have to produce a game that innovates dramatically and brings something new to the table that fits an unfilled niche, <i>then</i> you can talk about selling to the new players.
Call of Duty can get away with the $60 price because of their brand recognition and marketing. UWE doesn't have either of those things, so in my educated opinion they need to keep focusing on filling the demand for multiplayer games that do not play like COD. NS2 <i>is </i> doing that, and I believe that the map design will be one of the most significant factors in the success of this game.
I believe a lot of the issues people have with NS2 right now can be solved by the maps. The maps can make or break the game. The people (myself included) who would like to see more of NS1 in NS2 can be satisfied by a well-made map.
So the question is really "Will UWE do this well?"
And the answer is that we'll all have to wait until summer and see. Wait...isn't it summer now?
UWE brought something new to the table with NS1 but that was a half-life modification. If they produce NS2 in the same spirit with the similar gameplay, then that will still fill a niche demand because no major company has produced anything like Natural Selection because they do not take dramatic leaps when they can make steady income off of Call of Duty 12: Modern Warfare 10.
The bottom line? If you have no marketing budget and no brand recognition, you have to actually make a great game to sell "10 bazillion copies" at $35.
/As always, this is the meaningless opinion of a random NS player, so don't write nasty letters :)