dunno if it's just me but some of the alien movement animations (especially the skulk) look off, as in, it's hard to predict which way they're going to be moving. Leap also makes the skulk look like its lagging making it hard to shoot the thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1929972:date=Apr 25 2012, 11:27 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 25 2012, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's way too easy for 1 marine to kite an onos and get him killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not totally convinced of this. just had a game where i chased an onos from our base in warehouse all the way into their server room hive, jetpack and level 3 shotgun, and couldn't kill the thing (teammate fade got me in there). used over half my ammo supply on the thing.
I support getting rid of drifters 100% and WorthyRival deserves credit for expressing it well enough to convince the devs, although it has been brought up multiple times in the past by myself and others. I haven't tested it myself yet but does buildings appear instantly now? Maybe the changes to cysts are enough to balance it out, but if not I think there should be a delay the longer away from a hive you are. Meaning the buildings would ripple through the cyst network from the closest hive before they appear.
If hydras are to be free I think they should be given a fixed life time, so they spawn, mature and then wither and die. It won't prevent people from going gorge simply to drop hydras and then evolve back, but it would make it less economic in the long run, and it would give permanent gorges a more active role.
My thoughts after a few games playing aliens, from a marine player:
- Onos movement is terrible. nerfed way too hard.
- Clogs need to be available sooner, they die so easy that by the time you get them a single marine with a grenade launcher can wipe a whole wall of them out in a few seconds. they also take too long to place down, there's a delay after dropping one and if you're trying to create wall or a barrier across a doorway it takes you way longer than it should. needs to be streamlined.
invTempestJoin Date: 2003-03-02Member: 14223Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited April 2012
Of all the changes for this build the only good one is removing knockdown from gore and the fact that your ears don't bleed when goring someone now.
Everything else should be reverted-
<ol type='1'><li>Scrap the clogs as they don't add anything to the game but more spam and turtle happy gorges.</li><li>Revert onos movement changes as charge is horrendous and very buggy (sensitivity gets stuck lowered after you die).</li><li>Make hydras and mini-cysts cost pres again.</li><li>Wave spawning is very very bad and needs to be reverted. Not sure how we go from 8 second spawns with emergency spawning at 4 dead aliens to 20+ second spawn times.</li><li>Drifters have no use at all right now as infestation does what a drifter does but way better.</li><li>Lerk max speed change is a bandaid and doesn't fix the underlying issue. </li><li>Smash and gore on same slot removes player control as now you can't use gore on buildings at all (gore does higher dps on buildings still).</li><li>What is the harvester weaking supposed to accomplish? Now 1 marine with 3 LMG clips can kill it. This needs to be reverted or aliens will not be able to hold their RT's.</li></ol>
I'm hoping for a hotfix on Friday to revert most of the things above. Then maybe next week you can start tackling the actual issues with the game?
<!--quoteo(post=1930024:date=Apr 25 2012, 11:37 PM:name=invTempest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (invTempest @ Apr 25 2012, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of all the changes for this build the only good one is removing knockdown from gore and the fact that your ears don't bleed when goring someone now.
Everything else should be reverted-
<ol type='1'><li>Wave spawning is very very bad and needs to be reverted. Not sure how we go from 8 second spawns with emergency spawning at 4 dead aliens to 20+ second spawn times.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I forgot about this. After waiting 20 seconds to spawn my egg was killed and I had to wait another 20 seconds, and by that time the hive was dead. nice balancing.
I guess wave-spawning is workable, just add one global spawn timer and each dead player adds X seconds onto it:
E.g.
Default timer (0 dead) = 0 Per player dead = add 5 seconds
So if 4 players died simultaneously, that adds 20 seconds to the timer. Emergency spawn (if it remains) could remove Y seconds from the timer, say 1 sec for each player, so 20 - 4 = 16 seconds; that is, of course, if the triggering dead player count is 4.
However, it's not pleasant to sit in the egg and only be able to peek around for that length of time. Some possible actions include:
E.g.
- Right click to jump to another empty Egg, global spawn timer is <b>unaffected</b>. - Access to Evolve Menu, allow selection of Lifeform and Evolutions. If an Evolution or Lifeform or both are selected... when respawn timer ends, Skulk Egg becomes Evolving Egg, and does not count as Egg produced by Hive (so it generates another Egg nearby). You would still have to wait for gestation time to complete for your evolutions/lifeforms/both.
1. clogs make the gorge a class again! I havent enjoyed gorge in ns2 until now.
2. khamn interface needs some smoothing out. When clicking on chamber you cannot use the keyboard to build new building until clicking on a hive. Escape does work to unselect the chamber.
3. Its hard to tell what cyst need reinforcing when a gorge helps with cyst lines.
4. fade still needs work. I go and play ns1 for a game just to play fade. Check out the fade mod: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjP8K5cw85c&feature=player_embedded:" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjP8K5cw85c...layer_embedded:</a>
Here is the post: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115631&st=60" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...15631&st=60</a>
Probably better to not change it yet until the framerate improves for the older computer such as myself. Btw anyone with horrible framerates, change the resolution down for now until the performance is improved.
5. wave spawning seems a bit slow
6. The balance seems fine! I played 20 rounds and had success and losses on marines and aliens and all that seemed to dictate the wins and loses was teamwork and skill level of the players.
7. Good Job Unknown Worlds!! Keep em patches coming! I play more and more with ever patch!
+1 for removing wave spawning. feels wrong seeing a room full of eggs but then looking at the scoreboard to see half your team is dead waiting to respawn.
<!--quoteo(post=1930045:date=Apr 26 2012, 11:17 AM:name=DJPenguin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DJPenguin @ Apr 26 2012, 11:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930045"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1 for removing wave spawning. feels wrong seeing a room full of eggs but then looking at the scoreboard to see half your team is dead waiting to respawn.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> but it has advantages though, if marines attacking a hive, and one alien spawns after another, it gets killed easily. a spawing wave though can overwhelm the attacking marines ... so much for the theory :)
EDIT: Gorges can climb up very far :P <img src="http://i.imgur.com/dWVF1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="http://i.imgur.com/SIXwk.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
values&charts updated to b206: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117569&st=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...117569&st=0</a> didnt look at it in detail yet, but it might be interesting for people to know that clogs have 200 health and 0 armor which makes shotguns and pistols quite effective against them.
havent played the build yet but the changelog sounds quite promising (as usual). makes me happy that you actually fixed two bugs i submitted in getsatisfaction (it works people, so do it please!).
I really like the change log. Sure, there will be a need of tweaking a few things, but thats true with every new or changed feature. A few suggestions: <ul><li>After the gorge dies <b>and has respawned</b> and after he changed life form, his buildings slowly begin to lose health. This way you can evolve to gorge again to rescue your buildings from dieing. And you got rid of the problem, that every alien places his hydras and goes on playing skulk etc.</li><li>Instead of lowering the starting health of alien buildings linear, make them extremely vulnerable for 5 or 8 secs after placing. (So vulnerable that a few spray shots can kill them and not able to speed it up via mist.) After that time period, they jump to the normal health of an unbuilt structure, like it is now. This fix will prevent, marine-base spamming with whips and craigs and gorges replacing hydras extremely fast.</li><li>The spawn queue is very good change, promoting more teamplay on pubs. But 20sec are way to long. Make it 8 sec and every dead alien adds 1 second on top. Mist or another ability should speed up this counter.</li></ul>
On a side note: Oh man! I can't say how much I hate... those stupid kids who rage and caps lock in this thread without even 24h after the patch. Most of them haven't even played it now. But boy, how mad can they get about a game.
Hey kiddos, why not recording a video of you, rolling on the floor screaming? Load it up on youtube and send the link to the devs! That will show them! They will have no other choice than to accept your non-arguments. Or even better crush your head on your keyboard several times. So we all have the chance, that you will go away for ever in this process. Sparing us your dumb caps-lock rages in the future.
It's funny. When you play ns2 for long enough you go through the 5 stages of grief. Koruyo and Grissi, welcome to stage 2: Anger. I myself am on stage 5: Acceptance. :D
I like that build, very nice, but i would like to see something for the clogs. It can happend that some way is protected but onos can't move through, so i would like to see some shrink if aliens touch the clogs? Anyway was very fun, but people already complaining as marines, funny, because in 4 of 6 rounds i play, marines won and aliens lost.
What i notice: People play fade 1 time, then nobody goes fade. Why? He die to fast and is weak, as marine i like it, but as aliens its not anyfun. Lerk is very nice, he die very fast too later, but he is very powerfull with bilebomb. Gorge is a good class now, people like to play him, its very nice to have free hydras, cysts and clogs. But did clogs die very fast? i saw a marine shoot for a sec. and the clog was gone, so i don't realy know the reason. Also one grenade kill all clogs.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1930054:date=Apr 26 2012, 11:51 AM:name=Wilson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wilson @ Apr 26 2012, 11:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930054"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's funny. When you play ns2 for long enough you go through the 5 stages of grief. Koruyo and Grissi, welcome to stage 2: Anger. I myself am on stage 5: Acceptance. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And after you've gone through it will start again.
It looks like the changes in the game will never cease to amaze, disappoint, ridicule and surprise me.
what you did to gorge building is HORRIBLE to me, I really hope it's just on trial for the sake of trying it out, and later gets changed back!
this system is ARTIFICIAL and doesn't scale to all situations. maybe it works fine early game but then mid-late it will feel like an un-intuitive and artificial limit, nothing of what NS is about. further, the players who go gorge can just save resources until onos. then the gorge will have all resources banked up BUT at the same time be tied to his mini-cysts/defenses - FRUSTRATING!
please change back after 1-2 builds of trying!
edit: although there's alot of good things i saw in the changelog too and clogs are a very interesting and different mechanic... :)
<!--quoteo(post=1929960:date=Apr 26 2012, 05:13 AM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Apr 26 2012, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929960"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats coming next patch? Some 10pres marine starting equipment that allows you to place 3-9 free sentrys per player on the map?
Pretty great idea for a resource based game!
(even if it would de spawn after a minute, beeing able to instantly place 3-9 hydras (depending on hives) for 10pres is ridiculous)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you cry about cysts and hydras? I mean in ns1 you could build EVERYWHERE chambers, now you have to put a cyst which is free. unity?And with a limit of 3 free hydras (later more)... Thats all and you get angry so much...1-3 grenade take out the hydras at once or a arc, or rifle, shotgun, flamethrower.
<!--quoteo(post=1930059:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:02 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 26 2012, 12:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930059"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->then the gorge will have all resources banked up BUT at the same time be tied to his mini-cysts/defenses - FRUSTRATING!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why is it more frustrating to abandon a few <u><b>free</b></u> buildings (when changing to onos), than having all your res taken away while building, so you are stuck with gorge for the whole round? THAT is frustrating.
<!--quoteo(post=1930024:date=Apr 26 2012, 07:37 AM:name=invTempest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (invTempest @ Apr 26 2012, 07:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Of all the changes for this build the only good one is removing knockdown from gore and the fact that your ears don't bleed when goring someone now.
Everything else should be reverted-
<ol type='1'><li>Scrap the clogs as they don't add anything to the game but more spam and turtle happy gorges.</li><li>Revert onos movement changes as charge is horrendous and very buggy (sensitivity gets stuck lowered after you die).</li><li>Make hydras and mini-cysts cost pres again.</li><li>Wave spawning is very very bad and needs to be reverted. Not sure how we go from 8 second spawns with emergency spawning at 4 dead aliens to 20+ second spawn times.</li><li>Drifters have no use at all right now as infestation does what a drifter does but way better.</li><li>Lerk max speed change is a bandaid and doesn't fix the underlying issue. </li><li>Smash and gore on same slot removes player control as now you can't use gore on buildings at all (gore does higher dps on buildings still).</li><li>What is the harvester weaking supposed to accomplish? Now 1 marine with 3 LMG clips can kill it. This needs to be reverted or aliens will not be able to hold their RT's.</li></ol>
I'm hoping for a hotfix on Friday to revert most of the things above. Then maybe next week you can start tackling the actual issues with the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Worthless patch B<
I really hope we can see a quickfix for this weekend. In sweden its even an extra long weekend friday-tuesday!
I feel like it currently doesn't feel rewarding enough to kill hydras.
<!--quoteo(post=1930068:date=Apr 26 2012, 11:31 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Apr 26 2012, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many free hydras do you get, 3 ?
Is clog useful gameplay wise ? Can you do some smart thing with it ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> 3/hive from what I've seen, yes. And they seem to be used mostly to prevent sprinting past Hydras.
<!--quoteo(post=1929971:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:26 AM:name=invTempest)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (invTempest @ Apr 26 2012, 12:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929971"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Pretty sure he actually thinks these are good ideas. It's what happens when the developer doesn't play his own game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ye this is kinda sad. The drifters to build i feel was better, due to a team could deny them. Also this isnt minecraft why is ###### free? You guys are sleeping and gonna loose alot of good people. The groupies with no balls to speak up with always love your game. But i beat you alot of them don't play it as much as the teams and the community. You have some player testers that do. I dunno Charlie but you need to sit back and re-think you goals here. This game has gone down hill so much since 180 when i came in. The is some good stuff that has come in yes, but the game is getting soooo fkn dumbed down. I think charlie you need to take a full week of just going onto clan/teams servers and watching teh game play and listen to how people feel.
<!--quoteo(post=1930061:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:11 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Apr 26 2012, 12:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930061"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is it more frustrating to abandon a few <u><b>free</b></u> buildings (when changing to onos), than having all your res taken away while building, so you are stuck with gorge for the whole round? THAT is frustrating.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> because they may fill a function for your entire team, not only for you yourself. and because YOUR decision kills them, not marines. and if someone goes gorge and spends res that later gets killed off - how is that different from dying as onos/fade/lerk??? it's called <u><b>teamwork</b></u> - you go gorge for your <u><b>team</b></u>.
(btw, as it is now nothing happens when changing from gorge, but UWE is talking about having them die off slowly without their gorge owner to mitigate everybody going gorge to place their free buildings)
<!--quoteo(post=1930074:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:40 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 26 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...you go gorge for your <u><b>team</b></u>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> At first: I go gorge to have fun. And it's way more fun to place my buildings without having to wait several minutes to get enough res to place them. It is even more frustrating, that I can't get another life form after playing gorge. Because it is not fun to be bound to one single life form, the whole round. Changing to another life form and abandon MY buildings is also MY decision. If it is suicidal for my team, I will not do it. If not, it's the same as if marines would have killed the buildings. This happens and does in nearly no case leads the alien team to lose.
<!--quoteo(post=1930074:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:40 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 26 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(btw, as it is now nothing happens when changing from gorge, but UWE is talking about having them die off slowly without their gorge owner to mitigate everybody going gorge to place their free buildings)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know, and wrote this suggestion <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=118069&view=findpost&p=1930053" target="_blank">here</a> too.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Skulk footstep sound on metal is now much louder for Marine players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to like this change, but... a) why is only the skulk footstep sound louder (most footstep sounds are too quiet)? b) why is it only louder for marines (instead of all players)?
Give us some consistency. I want to hear what the enemy hears, that's not possible if the loudness is different for different classes or teams.
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
I agree with Tempest, Jucci-Pucci, Koruyo, Raewyr, Rantology, Skuggan, Grissi and the other competitive players here.
Just when the gameplay started getting better and competitive games started to be balanced, challenging and fun this kind of weird build comes out. Also the NS2 design FAQ explaining the reasons to stick with all the design decisions is quite sad stuff to read.
I still hope that the game development will get back on track and focus on the elements that make games and not the ones that break them. Before that i'm happy to take a break from NS2.
I considered uninstalling and waiting until release after playing this build. Then I crossed my fingers and prayed that the UWE team would start taking optimization seriously.
I played for a solid 8 hours straight today. Didn't leave the server I was playing in at all.
I saw the marines win a lot and I saw the aliens win a lot. Balancing seems to be on the right track in that regard, but why are we focusing on balancing an unfinished game?
Newcomers to the game seem to be loving the new build (Because you can eff around doing nothing in spawn the whole game). The steady and longtime active players seem to be getting extremely angry.
UWE, you can continue to add new radical ideas to this game and ignore the real issues, or you can stop focusing on balance and get this game optimized. That's as nicely as I can humanly put it at this point. I am getting sick to death of trying to shoot enemies with 5 FPS and mouselag on my high end PC. I wish I was exaggerating about that too.
I play in servers before they fill up and I am getting insane KDR's on servers with less than 12 people. As soon as the player count goes up I am unable to play at all. I don't even try to aim anymore because it would be a waste of brainpower.
How can we expect to balance a game where hitting enemies is based on dumb luck? What would balance this game is having a constant 60 FPS with no crappy interped hitboxes. I can't even tell you how many times I point blank shot a skulk with the shotgun today and got chomped down. I ask the dude what his HP was and he says something like "You barely even grazed me". On my screen it was a point blank shot right to the center of mass. I have blasted 3 close range shotgun blasts (With hit markers) into a skulk and not gotten a kill. It is starting to get incredibly ridiculous and I for one am about to move on to a game that takes precision and smoothness seriously.
You guys are making an FPS... not a slide show. That may sounds really harsh but us gamers expect to have certain things come out of our shooters. One of those things is performance and precision. We need an accurate game with accurate calculations... with smooth FPS. That is just the bare minimum. I have played plenty of beta's but I have never seen a game run this poorly in all my gaming history. That is the bottom line. There are all these excuses and promises I keep hearing but I am still left here with a game that is barely even playable. If there is one thing I think I have the right to complain about it is buying a game that SHOULD work on my computer but doesn't. I legit feel ripped off in that regard. I would enjoy the hell out of this game and put it as my all time favorite game.... that is if I could even enjoy playing it and be able to make my aim do what I want it to.
I could care less about balance... or features... or anything else for that matter. I really could care less anymore if this game is gonna keep performing like this. This game is going to end up costing me $400 just so I can play it... even then probably with less performance than I would expect from a current game.
So for me.... its either spend a huge amount of cash to be able to play this game... or leave it and play something that works.
Get the exo in... finish the features... finish the content... please. Get the optimizations in.... then work on balance. This is getting really stupid.
Comments
<!--quoteo(post=1929972:date=Apr 25 2012, 11:27 PM:name=IeptBarakat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ Apr 25 2012, 11:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1929972"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's way too easy for 1 marine to kite an onos and get him killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
not totally convinced of this. just had a game where i chased an onos from our base in warehouse all the way into their server room hive, jetpack and level 3 shotgun, and couldn't kill the thing (teammate fade got me in there). used over half my ammo supply on the thing.
If hydras are to be free I think they should be given a fixed life time, so they spawn, mature and then wither and die. It won't prevent people from going gorge simply to drop hydras and then evolve back, but it would make it less economic in the long run, and it would give permanent gorges a more active role.
- Onos movement is terrible. nerfed way too hard.
- Clogs need to be available sooner, they die so easy that by the time you get them a single marine with a grenade launcher can wipe a whole wall of them out in a few seconds. they also take too long to place down, there's a delay after dropping one and if you're trying to create wall or a barrier across a doorway it takes you way longer than it should. needs to be streamlined.
Everything else should be reverted-
<ol type='1'><li>Scrap the clogs as they don't add anything to the game but more spam and turtle happy gorges.</li><li>Revert onos movement changes as charge is horrendous and very buggy (sensitivity gets stuck lowered after you die).</li><li>Make hydras and mini-cysts cost pres again.</li><li>Wave spawning is very very bad and needs to be reverted. Not sure how we go from 8 second spawns with emergency spawning at 4 dead aliens to 20+ second spawn times.</li><li>Drifters have no use at all right now as infestation does what a drifter does but way better.</li><li>Lerk max speed change is a bandaid and doesn't fix the underlying issue. </li><li>Smash and gore on same slot removes player control as now you can't use gore on buildings at all (gore does higher dps on buildings still).</li><li>What is the harvester weaking supposed to accomplish? Now 1 marine with 3 LMG clips can kill it. This needs to be reverted or aliens will not be able to hold their RT's.</li></ol>
I'm hoping for a hotfix on Friday to revert most of the things above. Then maybe next week you can start tackling the actual issues with the game?
Everything else should be reverted-
<ol type='1'><li>Wave spawning is very very bad and needs to be reverted. Not sure how we go from 8 second spawns with emergency spawning at 4 dead aliens to 20+ second spawn times.</li></ol><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh I forgot about this. After waiting 20 seconds to spawn my egg was killed and I had to wait another 20 seconds, and by that time the hive was dead. nice balancing.
E.g.
Default timer (0 dead) = 0
Per player dead = add 5 seconds
So if 4 players died simultaneously, that adds 20 seconds to the timer. Emergency spawn (if it remains) could remove Y seconds from the timer, say 1 sec for each player, so 20 - 4 = 16 seconds; that is, of course, if the triggering dead player count is 4.
However, it's not pleasant to sit in the egg and only be able to peek around for that length of time. Some possible actions include:
E.g.
- Right click to jump to another empty Egg, global spawn timer is <b>unaffected</b>.
- Access to Evolve Menu, allow selection of Lifeform and Evolutions. If an Evolution or Lifeform or both are selected... when respawn timer ends, Skulk Egg becomes Evolving Egg, and does not count as Egg produced by Hive (so it generates another Egg nearby). You would still have to wait for gestation time to complete for your evolutions/lifeforms/both.
Suggestions, suggestions :)
2. khamn interface needs some smoothing out. When clicking on chamber you cannot use the keyboard to build new building until clicking on a hive. Escape does work to unselect the chamber.
3. Its hard to tell what cyst need reinforcing when a gorge helps with cyst lines.
4. fade still needs work. I go and play ns1 for a game just to play fade. Check out the fade mod:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjP8K5cw85c&feature=player_embedded:" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjP8K5cw85c...layer_embedded:</a>
Here is the post:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115631&st=60" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...15631&st=60</a>
Probably better to not change it yet until the framerate improves for the older computer such as myself. Btw anyone with horrible framerates, change the resolution down for now until the performance is improved.
5. wave spawning seems a bit slow
6. The balance seems fine! I played 20 rounds and had success and losses on marines and aliens and all that seemed to dictate the wins and loses was teamwork and skill level of the players.
7. Good Job Unknown Worlds!! Keep em patches coming! I play more and more with ever patch!
what does it mean
nice patch though, looking forward to it ingame
but it has advantages though, if marines attacking a hive, and one alien spawns after another, it gets killed easily.
a spawing wave though can overwhelm the attacking marines ... so much for the theory :)
EDIT: Gorges can climb up very far :P
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/dWVF1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/SIXwk.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
didnt look at it in detail yet, but it might be interesting for people to know that clogs have 200 health and 0 armor which makes shotguns and pistols quite effective against them.
havent played the build yet but the changelog sounds quite promising (as usual). makes me happy that you actually fixed two bugs i submitted in getsatisfaction (it works people, so do it please!).
A few suggestions:
<ul><li>After the gorge dies <b>and has respawned</b> and after he changed life form, his buildings slowly begin to lose health. This way you can evolve to gorge again to rescue your buildings from dieing. And you got rid of the problem, that every alien places his hydras and goes on playing skulk etc.</li><li>Instead of lowering the starting health of alien buildings linear, make them extremely vulnerable for 5 or 8 secs after placing. (So vulnerable that a few spray shots can kill them and not able to speed it up via mist.) After that time period, they jump to the normal health of an unbuilt structure, like it is now. This fix will prevent, marine-base spamming with whips and craigs and gorges replacing hydras extremely fast.</li><li>The spawn queue is very good change, promoting more teamplay on pubs. But 20sec are way to long. Make it 8 sec and every dead alien adds 1 second on top. Mist or another ability should speed up this counter.</li></ul>
On a side note:
Oh man! I can't say how much I hate... those stupid kids who rage and caps lock in this thread without even 24h after the patch.
Most of them haven't even played it now. But boy, how mad can they get about a game.
Hey kiddos, why not recording a video of you, rolling on the floor screaming? Load it up on youtube and send the link to the devs! That will show them! They will have no other choice than to accept your non-arguments. Or even better crush your head on your keyboard several times. So we all have the chance, that you will go away for ever in this process. Sparing us your dumb caps-lock rages in the future.
It's funny. When you play ns2 for long enough you go through the 5 stages of grief. Koruyo and Grissi, welcome to stage 2: Anger. I myself am on stage 5: Acceptance. :D
It can happend that some way is protected but onos can't move through, so i would like to see some shrink if aliens touch the clogs?
Anyway was very fun, but people already complaining as marines, funny, because in 4 of 6 rounds i play, marines won and aliens lost.
What i notice:
People play fade 1 time, then nobody goes fade.
Why? He die to fast and is weak, as marine i like it, but as aliens its not anyfun.
Lerk is very nice, he die very fast too later, but he is very powerfull with bilebomb.
Gorge is a good class now, people like to play him, its very nice to have free hydras, cysts and clogs.
But did clogs die very fast? i saw a marine shoot for a sec. and the clog was gone, so i don't realy know the reason.
Also one grenade kill all clogs.
And after you've gone through it will start again.
It looks like the changes in the game will never cease to amaze, disappoint, ridicule and surprise me.
this system is ARTIFICIAL and doesn't scale to all situations. maybe it works fine early game but then mid-late it will feel like an un-intuitive and artificial limit, nothing of what NS is about.
further, the players who go gorge can just save resources until onos.
then the gorge will have all resources banked up BUT at the same time be tied to his mini-cysts/defenses - FRUSTRATING!
please change back after 1-2 builds of trying!
edit: although there's alot of good things i saw in the changelog too and clogs are a very interesting and different mechanic... :)
Pretty great idea for a resource based game!
(even if it would de spawn after a minute, beeing able to instantly place 3-9 hydras (depending on hives) for 10pres is ridiculous)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you cry about cysts and hydras?
I mean in ns1 you could build EVERYWHERE chambers, now you have to put a cyst which is free.
unity?And with a limit of 3 free hydras (later more)...
Thats all and you get angry so much...1-3 grenade take out the hydras at once or a arc, or rifle, shotgun, flamethrower.
Why is it more frustrating to abandon a few <u><b>free</b></u> buildings (when changing to onos), than having all your res taken away while building, so you are stuck with gorge for the whole round? THAT is frustrating.
Everything else should be reverted-
<ol type='1'><li>Scrap the clogs as they don't add anything to the game but more spam and turtle happy gorges.</li><li>Revert onos movement changes as charge is horrendous and very buggy (sensitivity gets stuck lowered after you die).</li><li>Make hydras and mini-cysts cost pres again.</li><li>Wave spawning is very very bad and needs to be reverted. Not sure how we go from 8 second spawns with emergency spawning at 4 dead aliens to 20+ second spawn times.</li><li>Drifters have no use at all right now as infestation does what a drifter does but way better.</li><li>Lerk max speed change is a bandaid and doesn't fix the underlying issue. </li><li>Smash and gore on same slot removes player control as now you can't use gore on buildings at all (gore does higher dps on buildings still).</li><li>What is the harvester weaking supposed to accomplish? Now 1 marine with 3 LMG clips can kill it. This needs to be reverted or aliens will not be able to hold their RT's.</li></ol>
I'm hoping for a hotfix on Friday to revert most of the things above. Then maybe next week you can start tackling the actual issues with the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree. Worthless patch B<
I really hope we can see a quickfix for this weekend. In sweden its even an extra long weekend friday-tuesday!
Is clog useful gameplay wise ? Can you do some smart thing with it ?
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<!--quoteo(post=1930068:date=Apr 26 2012, 11:31 AM:name=Yuuki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Yuuki @ Apr 26 2012, 11:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930068"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How many free hydras do you get, 3 ?
Is clog useful gameplay wise ? Can you do some smart thing with it ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3/hive from what I've seen, yes.
And they seem to be used mostly to prevent sprinting past Hydras.
Ye this is kinda sad. The drifters to build i feel was better, due to a team could deny them. Also this isnt minecraft why is ###### free? You guys are sleeping and gonna loose alot of good people. The groupies with no balls to speak up with always love your game. But i beat you alot of them don't play it as much as the teams and the community. You have some player testers that do. I dunno Charlie but you need to sit back and re-think you goals here. This game has gone down hill so much since 180 when i came in. The is some good stuff that has come in yes, but the game is getting soooo fkn dumbed down. I think charlie you need to take a full week of just going onto clan/teams servers and watching teh game play and listen to how people feel.
Thanks that's all
because they may fill a function for your entire team, not only for you yourself. and because YOUR decision kills them, not marines.
and if someone goes gorge and spends res that later gets killed off - how is that different from dying as onos/fade/lerk???
it's called <u><b>teamwork</b></u> - you go gorge for your <u><b>team</b></u>.
(btw, as it is now nothing happens when changing from gorge, but UWE is talking about having them die off slowly without their gorge owner to mitigate everybody going gorge to place their free buildings)
At first: I go gorge to have fun. And it's way more fun to place my buildings without having to wait several minutes to get enough res to place them.
It is even more frustrating, that I can't get another life form after playing gorge. Because it is not fun to be bound to one single life form, the whole round.
Changing to another life form and abandon MY buildings is also MY decision. If it is suicidal for my team, I will not do it. If not, it's the same as if marines would have killed the buildings. This happens and does in nearly no case leads the alien team to lose.
<!--quoteo(post=1930074:date=Apr 26 2012, 12:40 PM:name=weezl)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (weezl @ Apr 26 2012, 12:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1930074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->(btw, as it is now nothing happens when changing from gorge, but UWE is talking about having them die off slowly without their gorge owner to mitigate everybody going gorge to place their free buildings)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know, and wrote this suggestion <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=118069&view=findpost&p=1930053" target="_blank">here</a> too.
I want to like this change, but...
a) why is only the skulk footstep sound louder (most footstep sounds are too quiet)?
b) why is it only louder for marines (instead of all players)?
Give us some consistency. I want to hear what the enemy hears, that's not possible if the loudness is different for different classes or teams.
Just when the gameplay started getting better and competitive games started to be balanced, challenging and fun this kind of weird build comes out. Also the NS2 design FAQ explaining the reasons to stick with all the design decisions is quite sad stuff to read.
I still hope that the game development will get back on track and focus on the elements that make games and not the ones that break them. Before that i'm happy to take a break from NS2.
I played for a solid 8 hours straight today. Didn't leave the server I was playing in at all.
I saw the marines win a lot and I saw the aliens win a lot. Balancing seems to be on the right track in that regard, but why are we focusing on balancing an unfinished game?
Newcomers to the game seem to be loving the new build (Because you can eff around doing nothing in spawn the whole game). The steady and longtime active players seem to be getting extremely angry.
UWE, you can continue to add new radical ideas to this game and ignore the real issues, or you can stop focusing on balance and get this game optimized. That's as nicely as I can humanly put it at this point. I am getting sick to death of trying to shoot enemies with 5 FPS and mouselag on my high end PC. I wish I was exaggerating about that too.
I play in servers before they fill up and I am getting insane KDR's on servers with less than 12 people. As soon as the player count goes up I am unable to play at all. I don't even try to aim anymore because it would be a waste of brainpower.
How can we expect to balance a game where hitting enemies is based on dumb luck? What would balance this game is having a constant 60 FPS with no crappy interped hitboxes. I can't even tell you how many times I point blank shot a skulk with the shotgun today and got chomped down. I ask the dude what his HP was and he says something like "You barely even grazed me". On my screen it was a point blank shot right to the center of mass. I have blasted 3 close range shotgun blasts (With hit markers) into a skulk and not gotten a kill. It is starting to get incredibly ridiculous and I for one am about to move on to a game that takes precision and smoothness seriously.
You guys are making an FPS... not a slide show. That may sounds really harsh but us gamers expect to have certain things come out of our shooters. One of those things is performance and precision. We need an accurate game with accurate calculations... with smooth FPS. That is just the bare minimum. I have played plenty of beta's but I have never seen a game run this poorly in all my gaming history. That is the bottom line. There are all these excuses and promises I keep hearing but I am still left here with a game that is barely even playable. If there is one thing I think I have the right to complain about it is buying a game that SHOULD work on my computer but doesn't. I legit feel ripped off in that regard. I would enjoy the hell out of this game and put it as my all time favorite game.... that is if I could even enjoy playing it and be able to make my aim do what I want it to.
I could care less about balance... or features... or anything else for that matter. I really could care less anymore if this game is gonna keep performing like this. This game is going to end up costing me $400 just so I can play it... even then probably with less performance than I would expect from a current game.
So for me.... its either spend a huge amount of cash to be able to play this game... or leave it and play something that works.
Get the exo in... finish the features... finish the content... please. Get the optimizations in.... then work on balance. This is getting really stupid.