McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited April 2014
@DarkflameQ I wouldn't call it hate. It was just a comment/point. Making the player count that high really does severely amplify the "bad qualities" of the mod.
@Soul_Rider Maybe he wants to run another mod and/or game? Perhaps he's paying for weekly allocations, and wants to run a game that's more popular. Who knows. My point is, it's his server to do with as he wishes. ...Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see even more MvM servers, but considering there has been 4-5 for the past few weeks is rather surprising to me. Damn shame the only one ever populated was Dark's (no offense intended Dark).
When v3.3 is released, I'll be putting up a central U.S. server. Hopefully my fellow Yanks will join in the fun. Still lot's of bugs to crush before then. The v3.3 change log is going to be huge.
It would be rad if you could get the Orange team to be like an insurgent force like Halos insurrectionists. All their tech being modeled like salvaged TSF tech, shame that probably wont happen
It would be rad if you could get the Orange team to be like an insurgent force like Halos insurrectionists. All their tech being modeled like salvaged TSF tech, shame that probably wont happen
If something like that were to happen, my first choice would be to make it work in the known context of the NS-verse. So, that would mean the two teams would likely end up being competing Corporations. Altera being one of them. Not sure about the other. The whole problem with this, is it would require all new models, sounds, animations, etc. That is a huuugggeee amount of work. Easily 500-1000 man hours. Not too mention, the mod would then be 100s of MB, which would go past the Steam Workshop limit (100MB compressed zip). So...this is extremely unlikely to ever happen. All this left Ulmont and myself with no choice but to compromise. We created the current skinning system and themes as a result.
It's Super Effective!Join Date: 2012-08-28Member: 156625Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Swelek has a similar thing. But he got around the size limit by compartmentalizing the mod into separate smaller mods. So perhaps the main gameplay mod can be 1. Art assets can overlay that, etc.
Swelek has a similar thing. But he got around the size limit by compartmentalizing the mod into separate smaller mods. So perhaps the main gameplay mod can be 1. Art assets can overlay that, etc.
@It's Super Effective That still amounts to the same total/cumulative download size though. It's basically just shifting the problem from one place to another. Still have the same issue...no Download Progress % when joining a modded server.
@Soul_Rider Doing so would require engine-level code changes. While I'm not 100% certain of this, I'm fairly certain we won't get any additional Spark updates from here on.
On the note of mod size: MvM will increase in size as I add more polish and features. That is simply unavoidable. I will however always do what ever I can to keep the Compressed download size to as small as reasonably possible. I think the creation of my ColoredSkins mod is proof of that (~76% size reduction). At some point, working under the assumption I add new sounds/models/cinematic the mod size will jump up. When that will be? No idea. I don't have a strict release schedule. I'm just putting in what time I can, when I can.
As a weird kind of update, and to keep you guys guessing...who can name what new Tech these icons are associated with?
@Soul_Rider Doing so would require engine-level code changes. While I'm not 100% certain of this, I'm fairly certain we won't get any additional Spark updates from here on.
On the note of mod size: MvM will increase in size as I add more polish and features. That is simply unavoidable. I will however always do what ever I can to keep the Compressed download size to as small as reasonably possible. I think the creation of my ColoredSkins mod is proof of that (~76% size reduction). At some point, working under the assumption I add new sounds/models/cinematic the mod size will jump up. When that will be? No idea. I don't have a strict release schedule. I'm just putting in what time I can, when I can.
Glad to hear it.
As a weird kind of update, and to keep you guys guessing...who can name what new Tech these icons are associated with?
Set squads (3 some? :P), research black hole grenades (create a new universe?), faster macs, more intelligent macs, mac EMP, faster spawning, armor 4, weapons 4, dual railgun exo's.
Also, two more teasers...
Some form of semi intelligent (hopefully) bot players to help get a server populated?
If this is the case i would be careful with this by setting a max number of bots (no more than 10) to stop servers abusing this function by putting silly amounts of bots in it and inadvertently giving NS2 an even more bad rep by spreading the rumor that the servers are all filled in bots (this happened with Quake 3).
My guess on the 2nd teaser is cleaner supply indication and record of Gold team / blue team match wins?
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
MvM came through pretty much unscathed for B265 (holyshit what a change of pace). I will be supporting the Kodiak skins; however, since a Team-Pattern was added for each MvM theme, the Kodiak skin sort of gets lost. Sorry folks, but the Rifle works just fine though.
Still crunching on the next update, it's pretty close. A minimum of 3 to 5 days I would guess. Forewarning, the change log will be F'n huge. When it is posted, please give it a read, I spend the time typing those things up for a reason!
If my plan holds out, there will be one more bug-fix / balance patch after this, and then it's on to TechTree overhaul update (will be extensive). My hope, is when the Tech Overhaul update is published, that's when MvM will start to come into it's own.
DarkFlameQ got 7/9 on the tech guesses (not bad but the "faster respawn" he called should have been "Rapid Deployment"). Any other takers?
As a weird kind of update, and to keep you guys guessing...who can name what new Tech these icons are associated with?
Forefather ability (alien team). Gives temporary situational awareness aka aura.
Individual beacon tech. to keep the troll alive and fuel other teams anger.
Mac dash. Knock a marine to his feet and cause 20 damage.
Mac windows 8 upgrade (marines). Touch screen to get him to finally weld you.
Mac xenocide.
Packet Loss tech.
Weapon and Armor quad chevron.
Double hot dog warmer hand mitts.
Thank you McGlaspie. I appreciate all the time you've invested thus far.
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited May 2014
Hey look, shiny new feature.
And no, this isn't a direct copy of the Fade's shadowstep even though it seems like that on the surface. It behaves quite differently. Hopefully this will help get some skill factors in the game. LOTS more changes are needed to really add to that mark though. This will be in Beta v3.3 along with a metric crapton of other changes.
Quick-Dodge Behavior:
Can perform repeatidly
Can perform immediately after sprint
Cannot perform from crouched position
Cannot perform while jumping
Cannot perform while flying (jetpack)
Can do immediately after landing from a jump / fall
Can only be done Left or Right (not forward/backwards)
Weapons can still be fired while dodging
Opinions / Thoughts?
For other modders:
Feel free to use this in whatever you want, just give credit when it's due. Also, be careful about messing with the inline locals. Their values are tuned to not causing odd bugs.
//
// Quick-Dodge Mixin
// Author Brock 'McGlaspie' Gillespie - mcglaspie@gmail.com
//
// Similar to Fade Shadow step in function, but instead of manipulating
// the player's model visibility and effects, it controls some animations
// and movement. This does not impact collision detection.
//
//=============================================================================
QuickDodgeMixin = CreateMixin( QuickDodgeMixin )
QuickDodgeMixin.type = "Dodge"
QuickDodgeMixin.expectedCallbacks = {
GetVelocity = "Required for movement posotion and speed modifiers",
GetViewCoords = "Require for camera animation and view modifiers",
GetIsOnGround = "Required for movement calculation",
GetIsFlying = "Required for cases when player has a Jetpack or similar ability",
GetCrouching = "Require to correctly handle crouch moves"
}
QuickDodgeMixin.networkVars = {
dodging = "private boolean",
timeLastQuickDodge = "private time",
timeLastQuickDodgeEnded = "private time",
}
//-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
function QuickDodgeMixin:__initmixin()
self.dodging = false
self.timeLastQuickDodge = 0
self.timeLastQuickDodgeEnded = 0
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:GetIsDodging()
return self.dodging
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:GetCanJump()
return self:GetIsOnGround() and not self:GetIsDodging()
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:GetCanStep()
return not self.dodging
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:GetMaxSpeed( possible )
if possible then
return kMaxSpeed
end
if self:GetIsDodging() then
return QuickDodgeMixin.kQuickDodgeMaxSpeed
end
// Take into account crouching.
return kMaxSpeed
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:GetCanDodge()
return (
not self.dodging and not self:GetIsSprinting() and not self:GetCrouching()
and not self:GetIsJumping() and not self:GetIsFlying() and
self.timeLastQuickDodge == 0
)
end
local kQuickDodgeTime = 0.175
local kQuickDodgeAllowedInterval = 0.55
function QuickDodgeMixin:OnUpdate( deltaTime )
local now = Shared.GetTime()
if self.dodging then
if now > kQuickDodgeTime + self.timeLastQuickDodge then
self.timeLastQuickDodgeEnded = now
self.onGround = true
self.dodging = false
end
end
if now > kQuickDodgeAllowedInterval + self.timeLastQuickDodgeEnded then
self.timeLastQuickDodge = 0
end
end
local kQuickDodgeJumpForce = 2.15
local kQuickDodgeMaxSpeed = 6.15
function QuickDodgeMixin:PerformDodge( input, velocity )
local direction = self:GetViewCoords():TransformVector( input.move )
direction:Normalize()
local dodgeVelocity = Vector( direction * kQuickDodgeMaxSpeed * self:GetSlowSpeedModifier() )
dodgeVelocity.y = kQuickDodgeJumpForce
velocity:Add( dodgeVelocity )
//maxspeed check
self.timeLastQuickDodge = Shared.GetTime()
self.dodging = true
self.onGround = false
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:ModifyVelocity( input, velocity, deltaTime )
local moveModifierButton = bit.band( input.commands, Move.MovementModifier ) ~= 0
local validDodgeInput = (
moveModifierButton and input.move.x ~= 0 and ( input.move.z == 0 and input.move.y == 0 )
)
self:OnUpdate( deltaTime ) //HACKS biatch!
if validDodgeInput and self:GetCanDodge() then
self:PerformDodge( input, velocity )
end
end
function QuickDodgeMixin:OnUpdateAnimationInput( modelMixin )
PROFILE("QuickDodgeMixin:OnUpdateAnimationInput")
if self:GetIsDodging() and ( not HasMixin(self, "LadderMove") or not self:GetIsOnLadder() ) then
//TODO Change to use XYZ_jetpacktakeoff, XYZ_jetpackland, XYZ_jetpack?
// - above will likely result in really jerky animations
if self.dodging and not self.onGround then
modelMixin:SetAnimationInput("move", "jump")
end
end
end
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2014
I'm in two minds whether to use this for a quick fix re-add of dodge, or whether I go through my original idea of creating a new AvatarMoveMixin from scratch with all my advanced moves in it....
I suppose I could use this as a base for the AvatarMoveMixin... I'll probably do that, thanks for sharing.
Quick question, in my version of dodge in PG, I allowed dodge to work as long as you were pressing strafe left or right, what this meant was you could strafe diagonally forward, or backwards as well. I will be doing this with the new mod too
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited May 2014
Lol, sorry, I was going to ask a question then seem to have got ahead of myself making my next point..
GetActiveWeapon() is not available to the mixin when I add it to Avatar, even though Avatar is a Player, and WeaponOwnerMixin is loaded in Player. Is this an oversight on my part?
Soul_RiderMod BeanJoin Date: 2004-06-19Member: 29388Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
What is it with you guys stealing my ideas :P I know PG was groundbreaking but.. :P haha
@Sewlek if you have made that already, i'd love to add that to my movement mixin, oh, and if anyone happens to write a wallrunning mixin, just by coincidence, you know where to find me!!!
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
@CarNagE1 I saw that. Thank you for having it up for the time that it was. I tried getting other servers (besides Darkflame's, no offense Dark) populated serveral times. No dice. The thing is people will always, always go to the server with players already on it. Understandable. Dark had soem ditry tricks tough. LOL, He'd put 4-6 idle players in his server to make it appear populated. This exact kind of problem is precisely why I want Bots to fill empty/low pop servers (to a limited degree), and then drop-off as more players join. However, that's a ways away as I have to make the bots Good for that to be useful. Not an easy task. Once I feel the bots are "worthy", I'll be posting details on how to config a server to use this feature, but it won't be enabled by default.
@DarkflameQ While I do think v3.3 will be better, I don't think it will "magically solve" the inherent issues found in 3.2. Significant changes to the tech-paths are needed to have a chance at solving that. In fact, there will never be a "magic patch", where it suddenly starts working. It's a slow march towards the ultimate goal. I'm just one dude, and one dude that doesn't have the free-time that this really needs to happen quickly.
@CarNagE1 I saw that. Thank you for having it up for the time that it was. I tried getting other servers (besides Darkflame's, no offense Dark) populated serveral times. No dice. The thing is people will always, always go to the server with players already on it. Understandable. Dark had soem ditry tricks tough. LOL, He'd put 4-6 idle players in his server to make it appear populated. This exact kind of problem is precisely why I want Bots to fill empty/low pop servers (to a limited degree), and then drop-off as more players join. However, that's a ways away as I have to make the bots Good for that to be useful. Not an easy task. Once I feel the bots are "worthy", I'll be posting details on how to config a server to use this feature, but it won't be enabled by default.
I haven't had a server online for weeks now.
I felt it was not worth my time and effort hosting anymore, although i'll happily host a version of MvM that has the ability to retain people through out the day (but there is so many factors that goes into this, bad commanders, the amount of people that rage quit on a particular bad match etc).
When teams spawn right next door to each other in a map, that's pretty much a bad match straight away.
The random spawning system in NS2 is just awful, good practice has always been to spawn teams the furthest away from each other whilst eliminating the possibility of teams spawning next to each other.
What generally happens in public games is when teams spawn next to each other, half the members of both teams will continuously attack each other whilst ignoring the commander and the rest of the map in hopes of a quick win, it's just painful to watch and it happens pretty much every time.
I think if you truly have resolved the IP spawn bug, that's going to go a long way to keeping games populated as that has caused a lot of stress and frustration since it was introduced by the new collision system, all those months ago.
@DarkflameQ While I do think v3.3 will be better, I don't think it will "magically solve" the inherent issues found in 3.2. Significant changes to the tech-paths are needed to have a chance at solving that. In fact, there will never be a "magic patch", where it suddenly starts working. It's a slow march towards the ultimate goal. I'm just one dude, and one dude that doesn't have the free-time that this really needs to happen quickly.
Indeed, but from what i've read in the progress log so far (i check it daily now), you've done some fantastic changes / progress (some stuff UWE have failed to fix for a long time), so thank you
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
edited May 2014
Well, on this note, I'm making a fairly significant change to Mines, because they were never used. I'm trying to allow them to be manually triggers like a C4 charge or some such. Once that working to a satisfactory level, closed playtesting is going to happen. Just a matter of sorting out the scheduling and "location". Patch v3.3 is mainly about addressing the "backlog" of bug fixes. Most of the known issues that remain now are either tollerable, or not that big of a deal. Which means, that I'll be free to move to actually adding improvements (hopefully).
I think when it comes to MvM, players need the ability to hide mines better.
If it was me, i would hide mines directly on structures like the back of an extractor to give the attacking marines a nice surprise when they confidently run behind it as they think they can axe away at it safely then BOOM, dead.
As far as i am aware, NS2 doesn't allow mines to be directly placed onto structures which is a shame.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Cloaked mines would be useful. Maybe they could give off audio warnings to the enemy when approached (only at very close range, so sprinting marines would have no chance at avoiding them).
BeigeAlertTexasJoin Date: 2013-08-08Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
I'd like to see a marine cloaking device that stays on while you move. It'd have to be a bit weaker than aliens cloak though, more refracty and obvious, like halo. Maybe you can only activate it temporarily, then it has to recharge (think the arbiter missions from halo 2). If more nerfing is needed, maybe it reduces your armor's effectiveness while cloaked.
Comments
@Soul_Rider Maybe he wants to run another mod and/or game? Perhaps he's paying for weekly allocations, and wants to run a game that's more popular. Who knows. My point is, it's his server to do with as he wishes. ...Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see even more MvM servers, but considering there has been 4-5 for the past few weeks is rather surprising to me. Damn shame the only one ever populated was Dark's (no offense intended Dark).
When v3.3 is released, I'll be putting up a central U.S. server. Hopefully my fellow Yanks will join in the fun. Still lot's of bugs to crush before then. The v3.3 change log is going to be huge.
All the mods that are 40mb+ very few people actually host / play.
If that could be utilized for large mods like MvM, that would be the best route.
I still think it's wise to keep the mod size as low as possible until people are hooked.
@Soul_Rider Doing so would require engine-level code changes. While I'm not 100% certain of this, I'm fairly certain we won't get any additional Spark updates from here on.
On the note of mod size: MvM will increase in size as I add more polish and features. That is simply unavoidable. I will however always do what ever I can to keep the Compressed download size to as small as reasonably possible. I think the creation of my ColoredSkins mod is proof of that (~76% size reduction). At some point, working under the assumption I add new sounds/models/cinematic the mod size will jump up. When that will be? No idea. I don't have a strict release schedule. I'm just putting in what time I can, when I can.
As a weird kind of update, and to keep you guys guessing...who can name what new Tech these icons are associated with?
Also, two more teasers...sort of...
Set squads (3 some? :P), research black hole grenades (create a new universe?), faster macs, more intelligent macs, mac EMP, faster spawning, armor 4, weapons 4, dual railgun exo's.
Some form of semi intelligent (hopefully) bot players to help get a server populated?
If this is the case i would be careful with this by setting a max number of bots (no more than 10) to stop servers abusing this function by putting silly amounts of bots in it and inadvertently giving NS2 an even more bad rep by spreading the rumor that the servers are all filled in bots (this happened with Quake 3).
My guess on the 2nd teaser is cleaner supply indication and record of Gold team / blue team match wins?
Still crunching on the next update, it's pretty close. A minimum of 3 to 5 days I would guess. Forewarning, the change log will be F'n huge. When it is posted, please give it a read, I spend the time typing those things up for a reason!
If my plan holds out, there will be one more bug-fix / balance patch after this, and then it's on to TechTree overhaul update (will be extensive). My hope, is when the Tech Overhaul update is published, that's when MvM will start to come into it's own.
DarkFlameQ got 7/9 on the tech guesses (not bad but the "faster respawn" he called should have been "Rapid Deployment"). Any other takers?
Individual beacon tech. to keep the troll alive and fuel other teams anger.
Mac dash. Knock a marine to his feet and cause 20 damage.
Mac windows 8 upgrade (marines). Touch screen to get him to finally weld you.
Mac xenocide.
Packet Loss tech.
Weapon and Armor quad chevron.
Double hot dog warmer hand mitts.
Thank you McGlaspie. I appreciate all the time you've invested thus far.
And no, this isn't a direct copy of the Fade's shadowstep even though it seems like that on the surface. It behaves quite differently. Hopefully this will help get some skill factors in the game. LOTS more changes are needed to really add to that mark though. This will be in Beta v3.3 along with a metric crapton of other changes.
Quick-Dodge Behavior:
Can perform repeatidly
Can perform immediately after sprint
Cannot perform from crouched position
Cannot perform while jumping
Cannot perform while flying (jetpack)
Can do immediately after landing from a jump / fall
Can only be done Left or Right (not forward/backwards)
Weapons can still be fired while dodging
Opinions / Thoughts?
For other modders:
I suppose I could use this as a base for the AvatarMoveMixin... I'll probably do that, thanks for sharing.
Quick question, in my version of dodge in PG, I allowed dodge to work as long as you were pressing strafe left or right, what this meant was you could strafe diagonally forward, or backwards as well. I will be doing this with the new mod too
GetActiveWeapon() is not available to the mixin when I add it to Avatar, even though Avatar is a Player, and WeaponOwnerMixin is loaded in Player. Is this an oversight on my part?
@Sewlek if you have made that already, i'd love to add that to my movement mixin, oh, and if anyone happens to write a wallrunning mixin, just by coincidence, you know where to find me!!!
There's no hype or advertising for MvM thus it doesn't get the recognition it deserves.
Plus the current 3.2 build is considered by many vets to be boring and monotonous, the grenade spam and noob tubing doesn't help it much either.
I personally stopped hosting because keeping a server populated was an time consuming task.
Hopefully the upcoming build will turn this around.
@DarkflameQ While I do think v3.3 will be better, I don't think it will "magically solve" the inherent issues found in 3.2. Significant changes to the tech-paths are needed to have a chance at solving that. In fact, there will never be a "magic patch", where it suddenly starts working. It's a slow march towards the ultimate goal. I'm just one dude, and one dude that doesn't have the free-time that this really needs to happen quickly.
I felt it was not worth my time and effort hosting anymore, although i'll happily host a version of MvM that has the ability to retain people through out the day (but there is so many factors that goes into this, bad commanders, the amount of people that rage quit on a particular bad match etc).
When teams spawn right next door to each other in a map, that's pretty much a bad match straight away.
The random spawning system in NS2 is just awful, good practice has always been to spawn teams the furthest away from each other whilst eliminating the possibility of teams spawning next to each other.
What generally happens in public games is when teams spawn next to each other, half the members of both teams will continuously attack each other whilst ignoring the commander and the rest of the map in hopes of a quick win, it's just painful to watch and it happens pretty much every time.
I think if you truly have resolved the IP spawn bug, that's going to go a long way to keeping games populated as that has caused a lot of stress and frustration since it was introduced by the new collision system, all those months ago.
Indeed, but from what i've read in the progress log so far (i check it daily now), you've done some fantastic changes / progress (some stuff UWE have failed to fix for a long time), so thank you
If it was me, i would hide mines directly on structures like the back of an extractor to give the attacking marines a nice surprise when they confidently run behind it as they think they can axe away at it safely then BOOM, dead.
As far as i am aware, NS2 doesn't allow mines to be directly placed onto structures which is a shame.