<!--quoteo(post=1883524:date=Nov 3 2011, 11:02 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Nov 3 2011, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883524"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't want the same to happen with the 40 or so tournament matches that would have been produced. 187 is not where NS2 truly is right now. Too much has changed, too much is imminent. There are elements that have taken months to produce that are about to appear.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say that is just something you have to live with, if you want to run a tournament for a game in development. The next version is always going to have new features and bug fixes. You can either have an early tournament or a finished game.
Edit: ^swalk, you might want to remove all the email addresses from your post. ;)
I don't understand, if you don't want people to see the videos and think that's where NS2 is right now, why are you offering to cast any games that are played between teams that still want to play?
I think you've handled this whole situations very badly. To cancel the event 24 hours before when teams have been preparing for over a month in advance is just crazy. I know myself and many other players are now feeling bummed out about this whole thing and I can see many teams and players going inactive and not playing at all any more.
The tournament should have still been played, just for fun, even if you didn't want to cast it. You can still hold another tournament in future when build 188 comes out.
Personally I will be boycotting any future events you hold as I don't think you have the players interests in mind.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can see many teams and players going inactive and not playing at all any more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The same could/will happen if there was/is a tournament...
I can understand that some teams are unhappy with this build(be honest - its far from something that should be played in a tournament) because of various reasons, i thought the tournament would be aborted a week or two before (since there was no way uwe could finish the new animation system, anticheat, occulusion culling etc in time + playtest and make it relative bug free)
The decision too abort was made too late. And ofc ppl are very angry (me too)
But its very unfair to turn your back on ns2hd because of this one mistake... (after he has done so many great things)
To have a big community we need more ppl, and to get more ppl we have to spread the word and show the world this game... so i do think ns2hd has the community in mind and i can somehow understand this decision... since this was a planned event to not only have some fun as community but also to promote the game and get more ppl interessted in us.
Again: The tournament is a big deal, the community includes also the developers - and I dont think a big advertising event with the current build would be a good idea, because it will overshadow(for outsiders) a lot of stuff that will come after. (that are really big changes and improvements on the game)
QuovatisTeam InversionJoin Date: 2010-01-26Member: 70321Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1883532:date=Nov 3 2011, 02:40 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 3 2011, 02:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The same could/will happen if there was/is a tournament...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So true. It's a lose/lose situation. The only thing that could have been done better is to cancel it earlier.
<!--quoteo(post=1883532:date=Nov 3 2011, 09:40 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Nov 3 2011, 09:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883532"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The same could/will happen if there was/is a tournament...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but the way to grow a community and get more players is by holding events like these in which people want to play in. The whole reason pub.eu and many other teams formed is because of this event. By holding successful events in which people have fun - the community would ultimately grow. If this tournament did go ahead then shortly after build 188 would be out and that'd bring more people back playing. If there was then another tournament announced on build 188, teams would become active again and the community would continue to grow.
Cancelling it like this only causes players and teams to quit playing and go inactive and not want to get involved in any future events.
I feel like it's just a slap in the face to all the teams who have let NS2HD cast their games. As the organiser he has a responsibility to those teams to hold a successful event. Regardless if he wants to promote it on youtube or not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To have a big community we need more ppl, and to get more ppl we have to spread the word and show the world this game... so i do think ns2hd has the community in mind and i can somehow understand this decision... since this was a planned event to not only have some fun as community but also to promote the game and get more ppl interessted in us.
This is a big deal, the community includes also the developers - and I dont think a big advertising event with the current build would be a good idea, because it will overshadow a lot of stuff that will come after. (that are really big changes and improvements on the game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think most of the players cared about the games being cast on NS2HD or it being a big publicity stunt. I know I just wanted to play for fun. I think this a poor reason for cancelling the whole thing as it could have easily went ahead without a prize or casts on youtube.
I think the biggest reason for not holding it on 187 would be the big unbalance towards aliens, but I think you could make a simple tournament mod that changes some values like hive cost and upgrade times that would balance things out a bit.
You all raise good, valid points. There are logical, solid arguments for moving either way.
Step back though, and there's a bigger picture to see.
You guys know I don't get paid to do this. That I have devoted thousands of hours to NS2 in hundreds of videos. That I've spent thousands of dollars on equipment, airfares, software, and cameras. That every night I go home from work, and stay up during the night to try to create events like UWE interviews and tournaments.
Knowing all that, what's more likely: That I'm an ###### who doesn't care about you the players? Or that I bit off more than I could chew? Maybe I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?
Now, I've committed to casting any match by any team that still wishes to play this weekend. Let's rock on, play some NS2, and have some fun.
<!--quoteo(post=1883547:date=Nov 3 2011, 06:06 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Nov 3 2011, 06:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's rock on, play some NS2, and have some fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hear, hear.
This bickering is pointless. Let's move on to bigger and better things.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1883547:date=Nov 3 2011, 11:06 PM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Nov 3 2011, 11:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883547"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You all raise good, valid points. There are logical, solid arguments for moving either way.
Step back though, and there's a bigger picture to see.
You guys know I don't get paid to do this. That I have devoted thousands of hours to NS2 in hundreds of videos. That I've spent thousands of dollars on equipment, airfares, software, and cameras. That every night I go home from work, and stay up during the night to try to create events like UWE interviews and tournaments.
Knowing all that, what's more likely: That I'm an ###### who doesn't care about you the players? Or that I bit off more than I could chew? Maybe I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?
Now, I've committed to casting any match by any team that still wishes to play this weekend. Let's rock on, play some NS2, and have some fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think you handled this one badly and you've let a lot of people down. I honestly think you should apologize for that. It may also not have been your intention, but to a lot of people it looks like you're putting the interests of UWE and the playerbase at large over those of the players who were going to participate in your tournament.
That said, I do believe that you've had the best intentions in everything you've done and you certainly deserve recognition for the work you put into trying to put this tournament together, even if it ultimately turned into a failure. I hope Wilson reconsiders giving you another chance if you decide to host a new tournament in the future, I certainly will. I don't hold any personal animosity against you and hope you'll continue making your rather good videos and game commentaries for the community.
So, I suggest we leave this all in the past and look to the future. Later tonight I will be announcing a four team invite only tournament to be held this weekend and I'm sure there will be other tournament initiatives from myself and others after that.
Leave the poor bloke alone. It's been cancelled for valid reasons and it seems quite a few of the clans signed up actually didn't want to play this build anyway.
Hugh is an ambassador for the game and doesn't deserve the anger pointed towards him.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1883554:date=Nov 3 2011, 11:23 PM:name=SteelBlade)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SteelBlade @ Nov 3 2011, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883554"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Leave the poor bloke alone. It's been cancelled for valid reasons and it seems quite a few of the clans signed up actually didn't want to play this build anyway.
Hugh is an ambassador for the game and doesn't deserve the anger pointed towards him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Personally, I don't blame Hugh. He is doing some awesome work for this community. I blame the teams that decided to complain about this. They knew the game would not be finished when the tournament was beginning.
Good to hear that at least some games will be played, Fana.
fanaticThis post has been edited.Join Date: 2003-07-23Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
edited November 2011
Alright, so, I had more or less everything ready to go, including the teams who would be playing and the schedule for my tournament, but unfortunately some of the participants had some concerns about the tournament format I had chosen and decided they did not want to participate. So that means there will be no tournament this weekend. I tried my best, sorry guys.
Instead we're going to try to put together an 8 team single elimination cup starting next weekend, following the same schedule as the NS2HD tournament. I can't guarantee that it's going to happen as I won't be hosting it or even anything more than peripherally involved with it, but there should be a post in here and a thread about it today or tomorrow.
dont worry Hugh i understand why there are valid reasons why the tourny was canceled and as long as your EPIC sauced videos keep coming i have no complaints keep up the good work and see ya in game
ZeikkoJoin Date: 2007-12-16Member: 63179Members, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester
<!--quoteo(post=1883619:date=Nov 4 2011, 06:11 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Nov 4 2011, 06:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alright, so, I had more or less everything ready to go, including the teams who would be playing and the schedule for my tournament, but unfortunately some of the participants had some concerns about the tournament format I had chosen and decided they did not want to participate. So that means there will be no tournament this weekend. I tried my best, sorry guys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the heck... People seem to be very picky nowadays. Well let's scrim more against the same teams every night for the next couple of months and see again if people are up for some variation.
Thanks a lot for the effort Fana and NS2HD! Hopefully we can have the first NS2 tournament some day.
Thanks for all the work, NS2 and thanks for putting up with the frustration of those who complain; but please don't get demotivated by this as there are still a lot of people who are waiting for your next video (me included as I currently can't play myself due to hardware issues).
If you decide to make another tournament in January or whenever, I'd be very glad and probably offer help (if there is enough time).
seriously though, I think this was the right decision. This tournament is going to be a BIG event, I'll be spamming it to all my friends, news websites will be posting about it. NS2 is going to get A LOT of attention when this tournament really gets going.
All this means is that a lot of newcomers are going to learn about ns2 for the first time, and a fair amount of people are going to preorder it.
If people saw a boring, low performance, feature sparse(relatively) version of the game being played, then it would have been a mess.
Again, this is the right decision to postpone it.
I'm going to be starting up a new thread to discuss a potential mini tournament soon. I hope you guys are interested.(the tournament I want to set up is not the big one, but it may be cast by ns2hd if I can get him to).
<!--quoteo(post=1883661:date=Nov 4 2011, 01:24 PM:name=meb3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (meb3 @ Nov 4 2011, 01:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1883661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->might as well postpone until Fall 2009 for the big ns2 1.0 release<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comments
I'd say that is just something you have to live with, if you want to run a tournament for a game in development. The next version is always going to have new features and bug fixes. You can either have an early tournament or a finished game.
Edit: ^swalk, you might want to remove all the email addresses from your post. ;)
I think you've handled this whole situations very badly. To cancel the event 24 hours before when teams have been preparing for over a month in advance is just crazy. I know myself and many other players are now feeling bummed out about this whole thing and I can see many teams and players going inactive and not playing at all any more.
The tournament should have still been played, just for fun, even if you didn't want to cast it. You can still hold another tournament in future when build 188 comes out.
Personally I will be boycotting any future events you hold as I don't think you have the players interests in mind.
The same could/will happen if there was/is a tournament...
I can understand that some teams are unhappy with this build(be honest - its far from something that should be played in a tournament) because of various reasons, i thought the tournament would be aborted a week or two before (since there was no way uwe could finish the new animation system, anticheat, occulusion culling etc in time + playtest and make it relative bug free)
The decision too abort was made too late. And ofc ppl are very angry (me too)
But its very unfair to turn your back on ns2hd because of this one mistake... (after he has done so many great things)
To have a big community we need more ppl, and to get more ppl we have to spread the word and show the world this game... so i do think ns2hd has the community in mind and i can somehow understand this decision... since this was a planned event to not only have some fun as community but also to promote the game and get more ppl interessted in us.
Again: The tournament is a big deal, the community includes also the developers - and I dont think a big advertising event with the current build would be a good idea, because it will overshadow(for outsiders) a lot of stuff that will come after. (that are really big changes and improvements on the game)
So true. It's a lose/lose situation. The only thing that could have been done better is to cancel it earlier.
Anyway, hope we can still organize some matches.
Sure, but the way to grow a community and get more players is by holding events like these in which people want to play in. The whole reason pub.eu and many other teams formed is because of this event. By holding successful events in which people have fun - the community would ultimately grow. If this tournament did go ahead then shortly after build 188 would be out and that'd bring more people back playing. If there was then another tournament announced on build 188, teams would become active again and the community would continue to grow.
Cancelling it like this only causes players and teams to quit playing and go inactive and not want to get involved in any future events.
I feel like it's just a slap in the face to all the teams who have let NS2HD cast their games. As the organiser he has a responsibility to those teams to hold a successful event. Regardless if he wants to promote it on youtube or not.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To have a big community we need more ppl, and to get more ppl we have to spread the word and show the world this game... so i do think ns2hd has the community in mind and i can somehow understand this decision... since this was a planned event to not only have some fun as community but also to promote the game and get more ppl interessted in us.
This is a big deal, the community includes also the developers - and I dont think a big advertising event with the current build would be a good idea, because it will overshadow a lot of stuff that will come after. (that are really big changes and improvements on the game)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think most of the players cared about the games being cast on NS2HD or it being a big publicity stunt. I know I just wanted to play for fun. I think this a poor reason for cancelling the whole thing as it could have easily went ahead without a prize or casts on youtube.
I think the biggest reason for not holding it on 187 would be the big unbalance towards aliens, but I think you could make a simple tournament mod that changes some values like hive cost and upgrade times that would balance things out a bit.
Step back though, and there's a bigger picture to see.
You guys know I don't get paid to do this. That I have devoted thousands of hours to NS2 in hundreds of videos. That I've spent thousands of dollars on equipment, airfares, software, and cameras. That every night I go home from work, and stay up during the night to try to create events like UWE interviews and tournaments.
Knowing all that, what's more likely: That I'm an ###### who doesn't care about you the players? Or that I bit off more than I could chew? Maybe I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?
Now, I've committed to casting any match by any team that still wishes to play this weekend. Let's rock on, play some NS2, and have some fun.
Hear, hear.
This bickering is pointless. Let's move on to bigger and better things.
Step back though, and there's a bigger picture to see.
You guys know I don't get paid to do this. That I have devoted thousands of hours to NS2 in hundreds of videos. That I've spent thousands of dollars on equipment, airfares, software, and cameras. That every night I go home from work, and stay up during the night to try to create events like UWE interviews and tournaments.
Knowing all that, what's more likely: That I'm an ###### who doesn't care about you the players? Or that I bit off more than I could chew? Maybe I was trying to fit a square peg into a round hole?
Now, I've committed to casting any match by any team that still wishes to play this weekend. Let's rock on, play some NS2, and have some fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you handled this one badly and you've let a lot of people down. I honestly think you should apologize for that. It may also not have been your intention, but to a lot of people it looks like you're putting the interests of UWE and the playerbase at large over those of the players who were going to participate in your tournament.
That said, I do believe that you've had the best intentions in everything you've done and you certainly deserve recognition for the work you put into trying to put this tournament together, even if it ultimately turned into a failure. I hope Wilson reconsiders giving you another chance if you decide to host a new tournament in the future, I certainly will. I don't hold any personal animosity against you and hope you'll continue making your rather good videos and game commentaries for the community.
So, I suggest we leave this all in the past and look to the future. Later tonight I will be announcing a four team invite only tournament to be held this weekend and I'm sure there will be other tournament initiatives from myself and others after that.
Hugh is an ambassador for the game and doesn't deserve the anger pointed towards him.
Hugh is an ambassador for the game and doesn't deserve the anger pointed towards him.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I don't blame Hugh. He is doing some awesome work for this community.
I blame the teams that decided to complain about this. They knew the game would not be finished when the tournament was beginning.
Good to hear that at least some games will be played, Fana.
Instead we're going to try to put together an 8 team single elimination cup starting next weekend, following the same schedule as the NS2HD tournament. I can't guarantee that it's going to happen as I won't be hosting it or even anything more than peripherally involved with it, but there should be a post in here and a thread about it today or tomorrow.
What the heck... People seem to be very picky nowadays. Well let's scrim more against the same teams every night for the next couple of months and see again if people are up for some variation.
Thanks a lot for the effort Fana and NS2HD! Hopefully we can have the first NS2 tournament some day.
How rude Elodea! ;-)
-Arga
If you decide to make another tournament in January or whenever, I'd be very glad and probably offer help (if there is enough time).
seriously though, I think this was the right decision. This tournament is going to be a BIG event, I'll be spamming it to all my friends, news websites will be posting about it. NS2 is going to get A LOT of attention when this tournament really gets going.
All this means is that a lot of newcomers are going to learn about ns2 for the first time, and a fair amount of people are going to preorder it.
If people saw a boring, low performance, feature sparse(relatively) version of the game being played, then it would have been a mess.
Again, this is the right decision to postpone it.
I'm going to be starting up a new thread to discuss a potential mini tournament soon. I hope you guys are interested.(the tournament I want to set up is not the big one, but it may be cast by ns2hd if I can get him to).
you troll