It's looking a lot better, particularly that corridor I mentioned.
Some areas though, whether they're changed now or not look like a total mash up on the walls. Take your time and get your friend to re-envisage some more, that was a good change.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
I agree, it went from being meh to one of the best parts of the map thus far very fast. There are quite a bit of meh areas because my natural creativity usually devolves into, as you said, smashing many props together. 9/10 times that's the wrong approach, and simplicity is the better option.
Do this. The flooring in that recessed area needs height variation, and also it needs to be lower down (which you achieve by putting the panels lower, while having the "strut" parts as a kind of stepping stone to climb out if you fall down).
Red arrows = put these parts lower down. Green arrows = this is what the floor level should look like from a side view.
Not sure about the grating completely covering the glass, i thought the fact it was only half covered by the previous grating gave it character, now (from what i can tell) you can't really see outside all that well. Also i'm at odds at the overall lighting in that scene, perhaps you could break it up slightly with a little bit of blue/green coming out of the walkway on the left there, It doesn't have to be much it could just be a small bit just to break up the lighting, an it will contrast really well against all that orange.
I could be talking out of my arse since i haven't had the chance to actually run around your map m8, but still.. either way i'm really loving this.
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1877882:date=Oct 3 2011, 09:03 AM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Oct 3 2011, 09:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure about the grating completely covering the glass, i thought the fact it was only half covered by the previous grating gave it character, now (from what i can tell) you can't really see outside all that well. Also i'm at odds at the overall lighting in that scene, perhaps you could break it up slightly with a little bit of blue/green coming out of the walkway on the left there, It doesn't have to be much it could just be a small bit just to break up the lighting, an it will contrast really well against all that orange.
I could be talking out of my arse since i haven't had the chance to actually run around your map m8, but still.. either way i'm really loving this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll work on that. Such helpful people around here. When you're faced with something day in day out, you really do lose a ton of perspective at what you're looking at, if you're like me. That's why you guys are the best
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1877882:date=Oct 3 2011, 06:03 AM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Oct 3 2011, 06:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877882"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not sure about the grating completely covering the glass, i thought the fact it was only half covered by the previous grating gave it character, now (from what i can tell) you can't really see outside all that well. Also i'm at odds at the overall lighting in that scene, perhaps you could break it up slightly with a little bit of blue/green coming out of the walkway on the left there, It doesn't have to be much it could just be a small bit just to break up the lighting, an it will contrast really well against all that orange.
I could be talking out of my arse since i haven't had the chance to actually run around your map m8, but still.. either way i'm really loving this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I couldn't agree more about the window blinds! (But I'm not a fan of contrasting colours that distract you from such a breathtaking view.)
I actually liked the randomness of the props littering on the floor in your previous version. Your new version of the corridor looks rather too neat.
<!--quoteo(post=1877915:date=Oct 3 2011, 05:51 PM:name=twiliteblue)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Oct 3 2011, 05:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877915"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I couldn't agree more about the window blinds! (But I'm not a fan of contrasting colours that distract you from such a breathtaking view.)
I actually liked the randomness of the props littering on the floor in your previous version. Your new version of the corridor looks rather too neat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That may be true but it also makes the corridor seem more dynamic when having contrasting colours, having the best architecture in the world will still look bland against really monotone lighting, breaking it up with smaller lights helps to create a more visually exciting map, complimenting the brushwork. Just looking around your house usually at any time of the day you will find various lighting going on regardless, sunlight coming through the windows (or defused due to curtains), glow from a monitor screen, little LED's peeking through the lighting, also there's various shades and different degrees of brightness, so to me just seeing the one colour in an area is really odd, especially when this is a hightech enviroment. Don't get me wrong i don't mean go crazy and spam differen't lights all around the place, i just mean adding a very subtle blue glow.
Why would you put lights there? It adds nothing to the aesthetic (you do not ALWAYS need hue contrast in your lighting - example Deus Ex HR which was critically acclaimed?) and you're actually drawing attention to a mostly unused and non-critical part of the gameplay path.
<!--quoteo(post=1877926:date=Oct 3 2011, 07:31 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Oct 3 2011, 07:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877926"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would you put lights there? It adds nothing to the aesthetic (you do not ALWAYS need hue contrast in your lighting - example Deus Ex HR which was critically acclaimed?) and you're actually drawing attention to a mostly unused and non-critical part of the gameplay path.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you might have slightly misunderstood me, I didn't mean to illuminate the entire wall section there with a blue glow, just below the walkway there on the left, only a slight glow. How that could draw attention to a mostly non-critical section of the map escapes me, i'm sure the glass feature alone of that corridor would do a damn good job of that, since the glass wall that enables you to see out onto the planet/city/space where ever.. is a unique feature of that corridor that i'm sure will capture peoples attention in a far greater capacity than my little blue lights.
But I do get what you are saying though and i completely agree that you don't ALWAYS need contrasting lights placed throughout your map to make it more visually dynamic, also i've not had a chance to run around Deus Ex HR as of yet so I can't really comment or compare.
The entire game (Deus Ex HR) looks like this - <a href="http://www.deus-ex.fr/images/stories/Deusex/deus-ex-human-revolution-pc-039.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.deus-ex.fr/images/stories/Deuse...tion-pc-039.jpg</a>
For reals though, trust me the lighting is fine as-is. There needs to be a different hue in the adjoining room (Topographical) which there will be, Topo always was mostly blue lighting and its fitting that we continue that trend! I'm just tired and a teensy bit drunk - and not down for writing 5 paragraphs of art theory 101
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
Probably there won't be rocks in the final. It's more likely there will be just fine sand like desert sand, but there is no equivalent at the moment so I'm just sprucing it up a bit. Ignore it if you can
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1878010:date=Oct 4 2011, 07:54 AM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Oct 4 2011, 07:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878010"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It looked a lot better without the rocks and dirt, if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe in screenshots, but not in-game. We'll talk. It's evolving
<!--quoteo(post=1877988:date=Oct 4 2011, 02:51 AM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Oct 4 2011, 02:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877988"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Blame vizions for these shots, for destroying my ego totally and depressing the ###### out of me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ahh man, that sounds super negative when it should be super positive! Way to make me look bad pone :\
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1878041:date=Oct 4 2011, 01:28 PM:name=vizionz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vizionz @ Oct 4 2011, 01:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878041"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ahh man, that sounds super negative when it should be super positive! Way to make me look bad pone :\<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lmao ugh
Sorry buddy!! It was supposed to be pretty tongue in cheek :p
<!--quoteo(post=1878040:date=Oct 4 2011, 06:27 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 4 2011, 06:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878040"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I feel you rely too much on the exterior lighting which seems way over bright. Light that place.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because natural light is such a crutch, right? It totally isn't a core component of lighting theory, in any way.
<!--quoteo(post=1878043:date=Oct 4 2011, 06:46 PM:name=marks)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (marks @ Oct 4 2011, 06:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878043"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Because natural light is such a crutch, right? It totally isn't a core component of lighting theory, in any way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just mean it can look better if you remove the blinding harshness. The original Veil is proof of that.
<!--quoteo(post=1877804:date=Oct 2 2011, 02:21 PM:name=fmpone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fmpone @ Oct 2 2011, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1877804"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Walking around this map feels like walking around the inside of an Egyptian pyramid with windows, that's the best way to describe it right now. I may change the map name to NS2_Horus if this keeps up (also if Andrew never gets back to me about permission to use the Veil name)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I gave Andrew a poke so you can get a reply in either direction. Hopefully he gets it soon.
<!--quoteo(post=1878049:date=Oct 4 2011, 07:34 PM:name=konata)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (konata @ Oct 4 2011, 07:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878049"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I just mean it can look better if you remove the blinding harshness. The original Veil is proof of that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at all of the new NS2 maps - almost entirely high-contrast lighting. They look pretty good too...
fmponeJoin Date: 2011-07-05Member: 108086Members, Squad Five Blue
edited October 2011
<!--quoteo(post=1878095:date=Oct 4 2011, 10:06 PM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Comprox @ Oct 4 2011, 10:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1878095"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I gave Andrew a poke so you can get a reply in either direction. Hopefully he gets it soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your effort was a success, thank you very much. Andrew sent me a nice message and some very kind words about the state of the map. The gist of his thoughts on the name were, keep it if you want, but it might be better to use a new name for a new map, to help with a new identity.
I suppose that's a bridge I'll cross later. Anyways, thanks again, Comprox :)
Comments
Some areas though, whether they're changed now or not look like a total mash up on the walls. Take your time and get your friend to re-envisage some more, that was a good change.
Red arrows = put these parts lower down.
Green arrows = this is what the floor level should look like from a side view.
<img src="http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/5656/veil01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Also i'm at odds at the overall lighting in that scene, perhaps you could break it up slightly with a little bit of blue/green coming out of the walkway on the left there, It doesn't have to be much it could just be a small bit just to break up the lighting, an it will contrast really well against all that orange.
I could be talking out of my arse since i haven't had the chance to actually run around your map m8, but still.. either way i'm really loving this.
Also i'm at odds at the overall lighting in that scene, perhaps you could break it up slightly with a little bit of blue/green coming out of the walkway on the left there, It doesn't have to be much it could just be a small bit just to break up the lighting, an it will contrast really well against all that orange.
I could be talking out of my arse since i haven't had the chance to actually run around your map m8, but still.. either way i'm really loving this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'll work on that. Such helpful people around here. When you're faced with something day in day out, you really do lose a ton of perspective at what you're looking at, if you're like me. That's why you guys are the best
Also i'm at odds at the overall lighting in that scene, perhaps you could break it up slightly with a little bit of blue/green coming out of the walkway on the left there, It doesn't have to be much it could just be a small bit just to break up the lighting, an it will contrast really well against all that orange.
I could be talking out of my arse since i haven't had the chance to actually run around your map m8, but still.. either way i'm really loving this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I couldn't agree more about the window blinds! (But I'm not a fan of contrasting colours that distract you from such a breathtaking view.)
I actually liked the randomness of the props littering on the floor in your previous version. Your new version of the corridor looks rather too neat.
When do you anticipate a newer alpha version being released?
I actually liked the randomness of the props littering on the floor in your previous version. Your new version of the corridor looks rather too neat.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That may be true but it also makes the corridor seem more dynamic when having contrasting colours, having the best architecture in the world will still look bland against really monotone lighting, breaking it up with smaller lights helps to create a more visually exciting map, complimenting the brushwork.
Just looking around your house usually at any time of the day you will find various lighting going on regardless, sunlight coming through the windows (or defused due to curtains), glow from a monitor screen, little LED's peeking through the lighting, also there's various shades and different degrees of brightness, so to me just seeing the one colour in an area is really odd, especially when this is a hightech enviroment.
Don't get me wrong i don't mean go crazy and spam differen't lights all around the place, i just mean adding a very subtle blue glow.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/newhallway2.png/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8384/newhallway2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
In those locations.
As for the next version, I have 1/5 tech points complete. When I have 3/5, I'll release something to see how it's playing up to there.
I think you might have slightly misunderstood me, I didn't mean to illuminate the entire wall section there with a blue glow, just below the walkway there on the left, only a slight glow. How that could draw attention to a mostly non-critical section of the map escapes me, i'm sure the glass feature alone of that corridor would do a damn good job of that, since the glass wall that enables you to see out onto the planet/city/space where ever.. is a unique feature of that corridor that i'm sure will capture peoples attention in a far greater capacity than my little blue lights.
But I do get what you are saying though and i completely agree that you don't ALWAYS need contrasting lights placed throughout your map to make it more visually dynamic, also i've not had a chance to run around Deus Ex HR as of yet so I can't really comment or compare.
For reals though, trust me the lighting is fine as-is. There needs to be a different hue in the adjoining room (Topographical) which there will be, Topo always was mostly blue lighting and its fitting that we continue that trend! I'm just tired and a teensy bit drunk - and not down for writing 5 paragraphs of art theory 101
<img src="http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/5797/veilhallwaynew1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8954/veilhallwaynew2.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8135/veilhallwaynew3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/353/veilhallwaynew4.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/4935/veilhallwaynew5.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3388/veilhallwaynew6.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Can't wait to play the next version! Nice job!
Maybe in screenshots, but not in-game. We'll talk. It's evolving
Ahh man, that sounds super negative when it should be super positive! Way to make me look bad pone :\
Lmao ugh
Sorry buddy!! It was supposed to be pretty tongue in cheek :p
Because natural light is such a crutch, right? It totally isn't a core component of lighting theory, in any way.
Sorry buddy!! It was supposed to be pretty tongue in cheek :p<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<3 :D
I just mean it can look better if you remove the blinding harshness. The original Veil is proof of that.
I gave Andrew a poke so you can get a reply in either direction. Hopefully he gets it soon.
Look at all of the new NS2 maps - almost entirely high-contrast lighting. They look pretty good too...
Your effort was a success, thank you very much. Andrew sent me a nice message and some very kind words about the state of the map. The gist of his thoughts on the name were, keep it if you want, but it might be better to use a new name for a new map, to help with a new identity.
I suppose that's a bridge I'll cross later. Anyways, thanks again, Comprox :)