Temporary Hydras
Kurrine
Join Date: 2010-07-03 Member: 72235Members
Join Date: 2010-07-03 Member: 72235Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Your thoughts?</div>If anyone has skimmed the design log lately: <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ns2design" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/ns2design</a>
"- Thinking seriously about adding lifetime to hydras, so they expire after a few minutes. May lower cost or increase effectiveness as well. This would add to the dynamic/living feel on the alien side and would further reinforce their purpose as “delayers†(as opposed to being static defenses that stay forever and really stymie or clog up marine movement/attacks). Could make them visually change over their lifetime too, so you could see their maturity. If we did this, we may not need the ability to recycle them."
My first reaction to this was great big no..
but it may be fine with the lowered price really or that increased effectiveness.
That's why I've set up this thread to find out how others feel about this and the impacts it would have to gameplay around it.
Your thoughts?
"- Thinking seriously about adding lifetime to hydras, so they expire after a few minutes. May lower cost or increase effectiveness as well. This would add to the dynamic/living feel on the alien side and would further reinforce their purpose as “delayers†(as opposed to being static defenses that stay forever and really stymie or clog up marine movement/attacks). Could make them visually change over their lifetime too, so you could see their maturity. If we did this, we may not need the ability to recycle them."
My first reaction to this was great big no..
but it may be fine with the lowered price really or that increased effectiveness.
That's why I've set up this thread to find out how others feel about this and the impacts it would have to gameplay around it.
Your thoughts?
Comments
I still give it a great big no, personally.
DO NOT WANT
Slightly not as short answer:
I don't see the problem this would be solving. Maybe I just haven't seen it yet but I've never seen hydra spam to the point where it becomes a major issue for marines. I've certainly seen sentry spam so thick that you wouldn't believe, but nothing near as bad from hydras, and nothing that a GL can't easily fix.
I'd want a fix for sentry spam before hydra spam. Often times the only solution seems to be a lerk sniping at it from a distance when the marines go sentry crazy. Since hydras come from PRes aliens can't spam them near as easy as marines can when games start lasting a little too long and besides that unlike the bile bomb which lacks range or the lerk spike which lacks power the grenade launcher has both and is always an easy solution for marines to use.
Yes.. even before this I'd hoped they'd improve them somehow, they're just.. awful really, you'll see maybe two kills with a whip in a game, tops. They're worse speed bumps than hydras right now. I'm actually kinda hoping for them being like a large Hydra.. maybe having that bombard be an automated thing that is lobbed at marines. The close ranged thing makes no sense to me against a primarily ranged enemy really. That asside.. they'd have to make Hydras pretty powerful to make me want to place temporary static defense..
seriously guys, the class already lacks everything ns1 gorge was about, now we debating making his buildings totally useless? For good example how temporary things work, just look at his healspray spreading infestation, its totally useless if it just a temporary - that is why they're making gorge infestation permanent if its connected to the rest of infestation. Funny how it took so long to figure, while many already pretty much questioned the problem with it.
its extremely poor attempt trying to fix "hydra" spam, since you will be pretty much killing the class all together.
I rather see some "fixes" to marines turret spam, this problem was easily solved in ns1 by turret factories.
without turret factory, commander can lame up the whole room from every side he wants without worry, and they're cheap as well.
But if turret factory was needed, turrets would be placed within the factory range and it would be extremely costly keep building turret factories.
This would also make whips more used, so you can move them to the front of battle and help defend.
It also gives a strong incentive for gorges to use hydras as a support for attacking.
A) You improve Hydras and make them significantly better, but on a timed life. I would incorporate a "flower" blooming and blossoming then shriveling then the petals/heads fall off when it times out. Neat animation at the least.
B) Whips are made *significantly better*. Make sure that they get that "Bombard" attack when they are upgraded so they have some kind of ranged attack form with a splash?
I like it overall.
Otherwise -support.
But I generally agree that if they're going to be temporary, the alien commander needs a new defensive building. The whip just doesn't cut it for static base defense.
Use the 'ghost' view (similar to fades old blink) to preview placement of hyrdas and mini pustules before shooting.
= WIN ! :)
Actually it would just encourage them to babysit because they would have to build new hydras over and over again to defend a position.
currently i'm against any idea that makes aliens even weaker than they already are.
I've never seen the aliens win a game so far. (I admit i don't play that much)
Ex. Hydras can connect to Pustules via tendril, only if those pustules are connected to the Hive. If the supporting pustule becomes unconnected, the Hydras' tendrils also retract and triggers a 120 seconds timer for each of the Hydras (visible at reticle text, similar to deconstruction). The Hydras will die at 0% if the pustule supporting them remains unconnected.
Assuming the Gorge can place infestation just by popping a small pustule on the ground (or heal spray can still infest surfaces), he can also place temporary Hydras on the map to create forward bases. To solidify the aliens' hold on that territory, the Commander will have to work with the Gorge to connect the small pustule to the Hive.
currently i'm against any idea that makes aliens even weaker than they already are.
I've never seen the aliens win a game so far. (I admit i don't play that much)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They win a lot, statistically, it's about 70-30 in favour of aliens last I checked.
But I generally agree that if they're going to be temporary, the alien commander needs a new defensive building. The whip just doesn't cut it for static base defense.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah that's a much better idea, I know when it's a good idea to move my hydras, let me do that rather than just making them die.
Only makes sense if they were really cheap or really powerful. Even then its a bit counterintuitive for any alien structure to die unless the infestation recedes. Why the exception for hydras?
In NS1 those chambers were more of an early game choice. In late game the marine's weapons got too strong for them and they could easily be killed. When the dev's plan is to keep it that way, your idea may not be really worthwhile.
I can't say it's very fun to have your buildings start to die so soon, and it will be hard for a gorge to defend hives across the map. If I know the hydras I put down will die soon, then I won't dare leave the room they are in and risk marines getting easy access. Instead the game might be less dynamic because gorges will have to remember to plant hydras in the spot where the last ones died.
It also confuses me why the hydras would die? They are placed on infestation, which nourishes aliens and supports alien structures....no other alien structure looses health on infestation, so the planned idea is contrary to the current system. Players might be confused and think the hydras were placed in the wrong area, just like the 60 second gorge infestation confused so many and wasted a lot of time.
An ability to recycle hydras makes more sense
As for Hydras, until the Mature Whip ranged attack is implemented, Kharaa's main defensive structure will need to be filled by the Hydra.
Then they would be super mobile and more of like an offence / support class.. then just sitting around and defending.