Incidentally, have you guys thought about doing an intro movie and/or an official NS2 explained in 2 minutes <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akUNmFAzS98" target="_blank">kind of video</a>? Either or both of those might be a vechicle to deliver game design information to new players.
The problem with "credits" as you guys no doubt realized is that it doesn't work for aliens, and I would argue that introducing different terminology for the two teams will make it more confusing. The community will want to use a single word, and so they'll keep calling them resources, which will introduce a disconnect between the common terminology and what's written in the game. Thus making the game less accessible to new players, not more.
The thing is apart from the place holder voices ("You need moar Resources!"), at the moment ingame, there is no mention of the words "Personal Resources" or "Team Resources".
There are only the weird icons that look like three circles connected in a triangle for team res and a single circle for pres.
Its hard to re-name something that isn't named ingame as it is. Its just us on the forums knowing and talking tres, pres.
<!--quoteo(post=1953528:date=Jul 25 2012, 02:40 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Jul 25 2012, 02:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953528"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem with "credits" as you guys no doubt realized is that it doesn't work for aliens, and I would argue that introducing different terminology for the two teams will make it more confusing. The community will want to use a single word, and so they'll keep calling them resources, which will introduce a disconnect between the common terminology and what's written in the game. Thus making the game less accessible to new players, not more.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1
It already happens with the extractor and harvester; their names get mixed up a lot and a lot of times theyre just called rt's or resource towers because its just more clear.
i think "resource" is very intuitive when it comes to tres. many RTS games use resources (although they usually come up with a specific name, but this would contradict your ambition of clarifying things) so i cannot imagine a new commander not instantly knowing that this will be used to build structures etc. (there obviously has to be a limit of how many structures you can place at a time, and "resources" really sounds like the thing to regulate that limit) it would be fine to introduce something else for the pres (as these are for FPS players, not RTS players) but i agree that having different terms for both sides will be confusing. so if there is any decent term (except resources) to replace pres, i'd be happy with that. as Khyron said, the distinction between tres and pres is probably more important than distincting both races.
another thing i'd like to point out: you only see the symbols ingame. if people know about the terms, it's either from other players talking or from educating oneself with a tutorial or something similar. if people do the later, they will know about the purpose of resources anyway, right?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Call them the same thing. Until you've done a usability study to see if anyone actually finds it unclear, don't waste time changing it. Once again, do a usability study. Don't ask the 10 playtesters in an echo chamber how they want it to be. Get a large number of disconnected people to tell you what they think of resources/credits/proteins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> i don't think they have the resources (see what i did there?) to do such a study simply to find 1-2 suitable terms. but i agree that such a study could be very useful if you aim for a lot of things at once, in order to find out what confuses new players the most. having a lot of tooltips might confuse new players even more than it helps (as there is already a lot going on in the game) so it might be very helpful to skip everything that they will figure out with common sense.
It would be more clear to have just (personal) credits and team credits. Why complicate things unnecessarily by having different name for marine credits and alien credits? I just don't understand the reasoning behind it.
Both of those seem like something that would come out of an extractor and a Harvester. (respectively of course) If you're going to differentiate the current resource systems between Aliens/Marines, that seems like a simple and "Realistic" way to do it. It's also quite easy to remember,
Plasma is organic (Aliens) while carbon is non-organic (Marine structures/weapons
People aren't as stupid as most modern game companies seem to think, So long as the names are intuitive, People will find it out and easily remember it.
Especially if the voice goes "YOu need more Plasma to construct this building"
"Okay, so it takes plasma to construct this."
(Harvester tooltip) "Extracts plasma from resource nodes"
<!--quoteo(post=1953591:date=Jul 25 2012, 11:42 AM:name=Krovakon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Krovakon @ Jul 25 2012, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wasn't it originally Carbon and Plasma?
Both of those seem like something that would come out of an extractor and a Harvester. (respectively of course) If you're going to differentiate the current resource systems between Aliens/Marines, that seems like a simple and "Realistic" way to do it. It's also quite easy to remember,
Plasma is organic (Aliens) while carbon is non-organic (Marine structures/weapons
People aren't as stupid as most modern game companies seem to think, So long as the names are intuitive, People will find it out and easily remember it.
Especially if the voice goes "YOu need more Plasma to construct this building"
"Okay, so it takes plasma to construct this."
(Harvester tooltip) "Extracts plasma from resource nodes"
"Oh so that's how i get plasma"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would be very unintuitive. Carbon is the basic building block of organic life so I would associate it with aliens growing different life forms rather than marines building guns and phase gates. In games plasma is usually associated with hi-tech scifi weapons, I can't see either team using it as a resource.
I agree with most that resources is just fine for tres. Most gamers understand resources are used to build buildings in RTS games. Pres could be called something else to make the distinction obvious.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We are in serious ship-mode around here. "How are we going to do XYZ? Um...we're NOT. SHIP IT!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Where is the dislike button? Do X, Y & Z before shipping plx. It will pay off in the reviews and playerbase.
if we're going for the "make it completely obvious what this number does"
why not rename it "cash moneys" and "blingity bling". you use cash moneys to put spinning rims on your arcs, and blingity bling to buy your gold-plated glocks.
Does anyone have any ideas about cool voice overs they want to hear marines, commanders or "the world" say? Easter eggs? Informatives?
Marines: 1, Rooting Tooting Let's Roll Balls 2, Droping it like its hot 3, Boot Camp all over again 4, Did he just say what i think he did? 5, Improvise, Adapt and Overcome, Oorah 6, (wisper) You hear that?
Some thoughts of automatically triggered statements based on ingame events
Cover me Watch my back Got you covered Got your back Enemy contact! Engaging! Need a weld here Any one got a welder? They're everywhere! What did I just step in? Sweet dreams ya freak of nature
<!--quoteo(post=1953641:date=Jul 25 2012, 08:46 AM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Jul 25 2012, 08:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where is the dislike button? Do X, Y & Z before shipping plx. It will pay off in the reviews and playerbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1. Is this really a good thing to say? You won't fix problems with the game because you want to ship the game?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Working on some power node tweaks for you guys. I think we've found a nice solution.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sweeet. *Crosses fingers that any of my ideas got picked up*
<!--quoteo(post=1953979:date=Jul 26 2012, 06:28 PM:name={GGs} Chicken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ({GGs} Chicken @ Jul 26 2012, 06:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1953979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->+1. Is this really a good thing to say? You won't fix problems with the game because you want to ship the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure they're talking about leaving features for post 1.0, not ignoring problems.
There is a lork on the clof! Fattie ahead! BBQ time! There's your daily portion of nanites! Gorgeus Gorge, isn't gorgeus anymore. Oh look, it's a green swiss cheese! Ohhh, noooes!
Personally I feel like the flamethrower could do with some final polish. The flame looks look you are holding a long rubber pole when you swing it around.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#FIX The MAC will now auto-weld Marine armor when they are near a Marine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nice, been wanting that for a long time. Can't wait to try it with the way armories work now. Hopefully MACs will also be able to "follow" a marine, but keep his distance, so the marine dont bump into him when avoiding bites.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#FIX The MAC will now auto-weld Marine armor when they are near a Marine<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Very nice. I think this has finally made me a robotics convert.
Auto welding MACs are a bad idea, and I bet the odds of it blocking and annoying players are going to be high.
Remember that the Marines range advantage could be seriously hampered by MACs flying around in your base, not just to weld you but also players near by.
The best solution would be to press 'use' on macs and for them to heal you..
I'd like it to work, but I have big doubts... this is where something like ranged welding could work better, like the Kham heal.
Comments
There are only the weird icons that look like three circles connected in a triangle for team res and a single circle for pres.
Its hard to re-name something that isn't named ingame as it is.
Its just us on the forums knowing and talking tres, pres.
+1
It already happens with the extractor and harvester; their names get mixed up a lot and a lot of times theyre just called rt's or resource towers because its just more clear.
it would be fine to introduce something else for the pres (as these are for FPS players, not RTS players) but i agree that having different terms for both sides will be confusing. so if there is any decent term (except resources) to replace pres, i'd be happy with that. as Khyron said, the distinction between tres and pres is probably more important than distincting both races.
another thing i'd like to point out: you only see the symbols ingame. if people know about the terms, it's either from other players talking or from educating oneself with a tutorial or something similar. if people do the later, they will know about the purpose of resources anyway, right?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Call them the same thing. Until you've done a usability study to see if anyone actually finds it unclear, don't waste time changing it.
Once again, do a usability study. Don't ask the 10 playtesters in an echo chamber how they want it to be. Get a large number of disconnected people to tell you what they think of resources/credits/proteins.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i don't think they have the resources (see what i did there?) to do such a study simply to find 1-2 suitable terms.
but i agree that such a study could be very useful if you aim for a lot of things at once, in order to find out what confuses new players the most.
having a lot of tooltips might confuse new players even more than it helps (as there is already a lot going on in the game) so it might be very helpful to skip everything that they will figure out with common sense.
Both of those seem like something that would come out of an extractor and a Harvester. (respectively of course)
If you're going to differentiate the current resource systems between Aliens/Marines, that seems like a simple and "Realistic" way to do it. It's also quite easy to remember,
Plasma is organic (Aliens) while carbon is non-organic (Marine structures/weapons
People aren't as stupid as most modern game companies seem to think, So long as the names are intuitive, People will find it out and easily remember it.
Especially if the voice goes "YOu need more Plasma to construct this building"
"Okay, so it takes plasma to construct this."
(Harvester tooltip)
"Extracts plasma from resource nodes"
"Oh so that's how i get plasma"
Both of those seem like something that would come out of an extractor and a Harvester. (respectively of course)
If you're going to differentiate the current resource systems between Aliens/Marines, that seems like a simple and "Realistic" way to do it. It's also quite easy to remember,
Plasma is organic (Aliens) while carbon is non-organic (Marine structures/weapons
People aren't as stupid as most modern game companies seem to think, So long as the names are intuitive, People will find it out and easily remember it.
Especially if the voice goes "YOu need more Plasma to construct this building"
"Okay, so it takes plasma to construct this."
(Harvester tooltip)
"Extracts plasma from resource nodes"
"Oh so that's how i get plasma"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This would be very unintuitive. Carbon is the basic building block of organic life so I would associate it with aliens growing different life forms rather than marines building guns and phase gates. In games plasma is usually associated with hi-tech scifi weapons, I can't see either team using it as a resource.
I agree with most that resources is just fine for tres. Most gamers understand resources are used to build buildings in RTS games. Pres could be called something else to make the distinction obvious.
credits and proteins for p-res is fine.
Where is the dislike button?
Do X, Y & Z before shipping plx. It will pay off in the reviews and playerbase.
Proteins / Credits is a bit too much.
why not rename it "cash moneys" and "blingity bling". you use cash moneys to put spinning rims on your arcs, and blingity bling to buy your gold-plated glocks.
Marines:
1, Rooting Tooting Let's Roll Balls
2, Droping it like its hot
3, Boot Camp all over again
4, Did he just say what i think he did?
5, Improvise, Adapt and Overcome, Oorah
6, (wisper) You hear that?
"well why don't we put her in charge?"
"game over man, game over!"
"how do i get out of this chicken ###### outfit?"
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrjFuTbl_SA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrjFuTbl_SA</a>
"Phew... Thank god it missed the balls."
"Today is an awesome good day to die!"
posted same in ideas/suggestions:
hologram that talks, if you listen long enough you gain "achievement" or something called:
"i stayed awhile and listened"
"well why don't we put her in charge?"
"game over man, game over!"
"how do i get out of this chicken ###### outfit?"
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrjFuTbl_SA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrjFuTbl_SA</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>+1</b>
Cover me
Watch my back
Got you covered
Got your back
Enemy contact!
Engaging!
Need a weld here
Any one got a welder?
They're everywhere!
What did I just step in?
Sweet dreams ya freak of nature
Do X, Y & Z before shipping plx. It will pay off in the reviews and playerbase.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1. Is this really a good thing to say? You won't fix problems with the game because you want to ship the game?
Sweeet. *Crosses fingers that any of my ideas got picked up*
I'm pretty sure they're talking about leaving features for post 1.0, not ignoring problems.
Still not something to advertise as freely... we already know they are cutting some features (dynamic infestation), why rub it into our faces?
Fattie ahead!
BBQ time!
There's your daily portion of nanites!
Gorgeus Gorge, isn't gorgeus anymore.
Oh look, it's a green swiss cheese!
Ohhh, noooes!
Nice, been wanting that for a long time. Can't wait to try it with the way armories work now.
Hopefully MACs will also be able to "follow" a marine, but keep his distance, so the marine dont bump into him when avoiding bites.
Very nice. I think this has finally made me a robotics convert.
Remember that the Marines range advantage could be seriously hampered by MACs flying around in your base, not just to weld you but also players near by.
The best solution would be to press 'use' on macs and for them to heal you..
I'd like it to work, but I have big doubts... this is where something like ranged welding could work better, like the Kham heal.