Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1843234:date=Apr 29 2011, 11:58 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Apr 29 2011, 11:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hang on a second while I jam my hand inside a power port that powers the whole room... waiting...waiting... MY HAND DIDNT BURN AND THE POWER IS BACK ON!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nanites!
I take it you haven't played ns1 or actually understand the huge problem (aside from it makes no sense how this can be done without any tool) that this ability is given to all marines passively. No research was done, no upgrade was given, any marine at any giving time with no tool needed, can repair - by your logic it makes perfect sense.
I'm willing to excuse pushing E to open, and close DOORS, I like to assume if the room has power the marine can just push the button to open or close it. But explain to me how every marine just happen to start repair power nodes pushing E, not a bit silly maybe? how much thought you think went into this gimmick?
we need to bring back NS1 relationship between marines and commander, marines act far too independent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> How do marines build then?
<!--quoteo(post=1843234:date=Apr 30 2011, 07:58 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Apr 30 2011, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hang on a second while I jam my hand inside a power port that powers the whole room... waiting...waiting... MY HAND DIDNT BURN AND THE POWER IS BACK ON!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hang on a second while I place my hand on this imaginary structure, and like the wizard that I am, THE POWER OF MY IMAGINATION IS MAKING IT BUILD!
We have two options: Realism: Welders are required to build or repair. Give marines welders. Ease: No welders are required to build or repair. Hold E as usual. Explanation: Nanites.
You can't just pick and choose, buddy. Don't be a hypocrite.
<!--quoteo(post=1843304:date=Apr 30 2011, 01:45 PM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Apr 30 2011, 01:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843304"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A solution which combines both is bring back the welder and just make it an animation when you press E on a power point <i>and unconstructed buildings</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And I love this idea. It's got ease AND realism. <i>My addition.</i>
The way I see it building something and repairing something are a bit different. Many things that are assembled don't require welding but often do to fix damage. You get this with cars a lot, unless someone is fabricating a new part, but that is usually to fix or replace an old one. This does have enough logic behind it to be just as believable as waving a welder in the direction of something to perform repairs. :p
If you were to repair something that you assembled without welding, you would probably just disassemble it and replace the parts. If you were to repair something that you assembled and welded, then you would probably weld again and replace parts as needed. Irrelevant, though. NS/2 structures don't require assembly (though there was an idea for an assembly minigame on these forums). They just appear and take substance. If the welder were simply a programmer/director for nanobots, then you could just push a stream of nanobots, and the nanobots would assemble (or repair) the structure at the molecular level, according to the instructions given by the welder. The nanobots in the welder themselves would direct the 'embryonic stem cell' nanobots in the 'nanite grid' in the powered room.
<!--quoteo(post=1843326:date=Apr 30 2011, 04:28 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Harimau @ Apr 30 2011, 04:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS/2 structures don't require assembly (though there was an idea for an assembly minigame on these forums). They just appear and take substance. If the welder were simply a programmer/director for nanobots, then you could just push a stream of nanobots, and the nanobots would assemble (or repair) the structure at the molecular level, according to the instructions given by the welder. The nanobots in the welder themselves would direct the 'embryonic stem cell' nanobots in the 'nanite grid' in the powered room.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Something like this is how I've always imagined NS welders, and even NS1 marine's "magic hands", work. Even so, it'd be cool to have a welder animation or something when "pressing E".
Or, could just have the pistol's alt fire act as a welder and there you go. Done deal. Building structures is free, repairing costs I-Res. Simple, and no need for additional animations, except maybe for the pistol to slightly "transform" into a welder, but no need of that really.
Played today and realized, that I can´t build things as marine commander. The menu seems broken because if i clicked on a sentry gun for example the model doesn´t show up. It seemed a bit bumpy too although I got a ping about 60.
Small message to thank UWE and its new programmer that broken the whole game. All servers got a bug, you can't get in the CC/Hive, you can't build anything, you crash one time at least at every game, alien became invicible because only close combat attack do damage, massive framerate drop when welding as a marine (have you even tested it before putting it in ?), massive lag prediction (i love to see a skulk bite me where i was 1 second ago).
This build is completly mess, i won't recommand this game until YOU gave us build that improve build after build and not the opposite..
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
i can guarantee you that they don't test it in a LAN.
The problem is that there all many new features all the time, and with the limited time of the playtesters, it is hard to test everything. Where else do you see that many releases?
That beeing said, the latest patch runs very smooth for me, one of the better patches i would say.
<!--quoteo(post=1843392:date=Apr 30 2011, 11:46 AM:name=Paul-Hewson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paul-Hewson @ Apr 30 2011, 11:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843392"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Small message to thank UWE and its new programmer that broken the whole game. All servers got a bug, you can't get in the CC/Hive, you can't build anything, you crash one time at least at every game, alien became invicible because only close combat attack do damage, massive framerate drop when welding as a marine (have you even tested it before putting it in ?), massive lag prediction (i love to see a skulk bite me where i was 1 second ago).
This build is completly mess, i won't recommand this game until YOU gave us build that improve build after build and not the opposite..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol ok you need to:
A)Simmer down about 4 notches B)Right click on NS2 and delete local content C)Redownload the whole game as a singular clean build instead of a build that's had a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch.
I have none of those issues. My only issue with this build is that the aliens can't do anything to the marines. I have to be literally shoving right up against them and I still only hit 50% of the time.
All these problems are server related, not client one. And it affects all the players that are on the server when it bugs, i am not the only one to have them. It's cool to see new build each weeks, but i rather prefer 1 or 2 in a month but fully tested than something they throw and "let see how it works for the people".
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
<!--quoteo(post=1843435:date=Apr 30 2011, 11:37 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Apr 30 2011, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The testing is what you're supposed to be doing, that's why it's a beta, because you're a beta tester.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
as he said. We are beta testing NS2. If you are not interested in beta testing, wait until the final release is here. If you want to see NS2 grow, play the beta.
There are a number of playtests world-wide every week, on servers both in Europe and the US, with players from all over the world connecting. Oh, and they also play on a LAN.
Bugs will be fixed eventually. If you could offer to pay for 50 new programmers, things would get done faster ;) But if you cant afford that, the price of NS2 will help.
<!--quoteo(post=1843435:date=Apr 30 2011, 09:37 PM:name=Chris0132)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chris0132 @ Apr 30 2011, 09:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843435"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The testing is what you're supposed to be doing, that's why it's a beta, because you're a beta tester.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah yeah the testing is what i am supposed to do, but the current bugs prevent you from playing. It's very strange that UWE & the playtesters never got it before releasing build 175. Are you sometimes playing on public server with the public build ? So maybe YOU can understand what you have done ??
Maybe am i wrong, but even before a real developper release something to an open beta, it test it fully with the internal team and sometimes it gets a weird bug.
UWE is releasing lots of build, and lots of them got weird bugs/balance problem. In this build, skulk is a completly mess and in the previous it was too much stronger. Sometimes you have to aim right ????
And i don't talk about the "hydra optimization create +5", "flamethrower balance" that we see on lots of build and remain the same after each build. You still can have a massive hydra creation process, you still can have a flamethrower hitting through wall. If you can't do it, don't write it has been "accepted" for the next update ! For sure we will be very happy when you will really fix that in a build, but i don't see the point in writing it has been fixed... if it's not !
Lying is all that you can write on your "to do list" ????
Actually I've played several games this build, the only problems I've been having are lag and random crashing, as well as some intermittent miscellaneous bugs.
Which are exactly the sorts of things a wide scale test is best suited to fixing. The more people who get these seemingly random crashes and bugs, and who submit reports, the easier it is to figure out what's causing them and fix it.
If you are getting constant game breaking errors then submit reports about them, what is happening on your computer is likely not happening on UWEs computers, so they need mass testing data.
I am sending report, when the sending report tool works.. and it crashes iteself lots of (because of NS2.exe frozen..). And it's not happening on MY computer, it's happening on the SERVER computer (or why all the players get the same bug at the same time ?). But as i am the only one from playing those game that takes time to post the bug here, i feel a little bit alone.
Ok, but have you tried: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A)Simmer down about 4 notches B)Right click on NS2 and delete local content C)Redownload the whole game as a singular clean build instead of a build that's had a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Especially A). Very important.
<!--quoteo(post=1843454:date=May 1 2011, 02:59 AM:name=Paul-Hewson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paul-Hewson @ May 1 2011, 02:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah yeah the testing is what i am supposed to do, but the current bugs prevent you from playing. It's very strange that UWE & the playtesters never got it before releasing build 175. Are you sometimes playing on public server with the public build ? So maybe YOU can understand what you have done ??
Maybe am i wrong, but even before a real developper release something to an open beta, it test it fully with the internal team and sometimes it gets a weird bug.
UWE is releasing lots of build, and lots of them got weird bugs/balance problem. In this build, skulk is a completly mess and in the previous it was too much stronger. Sometimes you have to aim right ????
And i don't talk about the "hydra optimization create +5", "flamethrower balance" that we see on lots of build and remain the same after each build. You still can have a massive hydra creation process, you still can have a flamethrower hitting through wall. If you can't do it, don't write it has been "accepted" for the next update ! For sure we will be very happy when you will really fix that in a build, but i don't see the point in writing it has been fixed... if it's not !
Lying is all that you can write on your "to do list" ????<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are not understanding.
This open beta, this open development, is not like that of a large company supplying after testing. It may be external, given to us in the community, as people that bought the game, but it should be considered on standard of internal playtest.
Your English might be hindering you here so I'm going to try my hardest to sum it up, shorter in French for you, to help you, but my French is rather... bad.
<!--quoteo(post=1843454:date=May 1 2011, 02:59 AM:name=Paul-Hewson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paul-Hewson @ May 1 2011, 02:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah yeah the testing is what i am supposed to do, but the current bugs prevent you from playing. It's very strange that UWE & the playtesters never got it before releasing build 175. Are you sometimes playing on public server with the public build ? So maybe YOU can understand what you have done ??
Maybe am i wrong, but even before a real developper release something to an open beta, it test it fully with the internal team and sometimes it gets a weird bug.
UWE is releasing lots of build, and lots of them got weird bugs/balance problem. In this build, skulk is a completly mess and in the previous it was too much stronger. Sometimes you have to aim right ????
And i don't talk about the "hydra optimization create +5", "flamethrower balance" that we see on lots of build and remain the same after each build. You still can have a massive hydra creation process, you still can have a flamethrower hitting through wall. If you can't do it, don't write it has been "accepted" for the next update ! For sure we will be very happy when you will really fix that in a build, but i don't see the point in writing it has been fixed... if it's not !
Lying is all that you can write on your "to do list" ????<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is the thing... I think part of iterating often is going to be the bugs you don't catch. I don't think at any point has Charlie or anyone else on the UWE team ever stated that this game was complete or done with development.
I don't know how many game "betas" or "alphas" you have been a part of but NS2 is pretty good compared to some of those I have been in or released to the public. I can tell you in times passed I have worked on a certain MMO which released its "beta" and you could not cast spells for some classes and if you did the game would crash or if you chose a specific model for a specific race the game would crash and this was a company that had 200 people QAing just that product and was being played by millions of people.
Something I think players do not always think about is there is a process to the magic of game making and its not always pretty; generally companies have huge QA departments that are dedicated to testing every build, NS2 has a group of dedicated players who use their free time to make sure that builds are not broken; are they going to catch everything? NO! Does it seem reasonable that they catch everything? NO! I think its unreasonable to have the expectation that there will not be builds that we push to the public that are broken. Should we try to avoid it? yes, then again we are only human.
We are generally pretty good about fixing things ASAP; build 175 is defiantly playable as we have seen people playing it. Does it have issues? yes, are we fixing those issues? yes!
I am always of the belief that someone before me can better describe whats going on present and I think todays person of the past will be Khalil Gibran (if you do not know who he is google him!) as I think he best describes the ruing of your post... :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So there ya have it :P now go play some NS2 as its AWESOME!!!! :D GORGE 4 LIFE!!!
PlasmaJoin Date: 2003-04-26Member: 15855Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
@wackoisgod: I can understand the frustration coming from Paul. I've stopped checking out every patch now, but every so often I'll start the game and jump in to play.
I see progress completed like 'Optimize xxx' and other changes that are supposed to help performance, but within 30 seconds of being in-game I can tell its still a jittery game.
This makes me just close the game right then (seriously) and ill look at it in another month.
<!--quoteo(post=1843553:date=May 2 2011, 12:26 AM:name=wackoisgod)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wackoisgod @ May 2 2011, 12:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843553"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here is the thing... I think part of iterating often is going to be the bugs you don't catch. I don't think at any point has Charlie or anyone else on the UWE team ever stated that this game was complete or done with development.
I don't know how many game "betas" or "alphas" you have been a part of but NS2 is pretty good compared to some of those I have been in or released to the public. I can tell you in times passed I have worked on a certain MMO which released its "beta" and you could not cast spells for some classes and if you did the game would crash or if you chose a specific model for a specific race the game would crash and this was a company that had 200 people QAing just that product and was being played by millions of people.
Something I think players do not always think about is there is a process to the magic of game making and its not always pretty; generally companies have huge QA departments that are dedicated to testing every build, NS2 has a group of dedicated players who use their free time to make sure that builds are not broken; are they going to catch everything? NO! Does it seem reasonable that they catch everything? NO! I think its unreasonable to have the expectation that there will not be builds that we push to the public that are broken. Should we try to avoid it? yes, then again we are only human.
We are generally pretty good about fixing things ASAP; build 175 is defiantly playable as we have seen people playing it. Does it have issues? yes, are we fixing those issues? yes!
I am always of the belief that someone before me can better describe whats going on present and I think todays person of the past will be Khalil Gibran (if you do not know who he is google him!) as I think he best describes the ruing of your post... :<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wonder which MMO that was mr 'fresh off starcraft 2'.
I have to say I generally agree, 175 is miles better than earlier builds, not too long ago tram was physically impossible for anybody to play tram, now we've got regular games on it. FPS is generally good although there are plenty of stutters, and every build generally adds a couple of new visible features, like the doors, the doors are awesome by the way.
I think the major gripe I have, if you can call it that because I don't imagine it's intentional, is that it's kind of hard to know whether you guys know what's wrong. Like the major issue for me in this and other recent builds is crashing, which I didn't in earlier builds, it came in about the time of the lua reimplementation so I assume it's got something to do with that, but it's hard to know whether you guys are thinking 'hmm lots of people are crashing, since the past few builds, we should do something about that'.
I realise you probably do, as there are threads about it on the forums, but it is tempting to apply general forum logic to the issue, which is that no matter how many threads there are on a given subject, most people don't seem to know/care about it.
Also you seem to be kind of slow to react to things, I assume this is because you're all working off a schedule of things to do, so when you release 175 you already have 176 kinda planned out, but this can result in things like the game having a bunch of new bugs, and the next patch having things like 'fixed the sound looping bug' in the changelog, I imagine a lot of people are kind of thinking 'who cares about the sound bug <xyz> broke in the last patch why aren't they fixing that'. I know you do fix really big bugs that patches introduce quickly, but it often feels sporadic, like 'ok they fixed bug X but bug Y is pretty important and I've had it for a couple of versions and it doesn't seem to be getting fixed'. Although admittedly just because I have bug Y doesn't mean other people do.
I suppose the major issue is that open development shows all of the problems and very few of the solutions, you kinda just have to have a lot of faith in the devs ability to fix everything eventually, and like a lot of faith, it's harder to have when reality keeps poking huge holes in it. Still, Charlie managed NS1, I'm sure UWE can manage NS2.
>within 30 seconds of being in-game I can tell its still a jittery game.
Your focus determines your reality. Have you tried not focusing on what's wrong with the game and instead focusing on what's right with the game. I only get 10 FPS in 'r_mode specular'. I can only command use GL's or perma-gorge and my kill ratio is 1:100, but I'm having a blast playing NS2. Specular mode doesn't render DI, so I have to gorge with weapon 3 active all the time so I can tell where DI is and is not. I don't let little frustrations get in the way of my enjoyment. There will ALWAYS be some aspects of the game you are unhappy with. Change your attitude and learn to let them go. Or not. I would never want to deny anyone the choice of feeling disappointed and frustrated.
Comments
Nanites!
(but make them be default alt-fire on the pistol, and have them spend Individual Res when welding)
I take it you haven't played ns1 or actually understand the huge problem (aside from it makes no sense how this can be done without any tool) that this ability is given to all marines passively.
No research was done, no upgrade was given, any marine at any giving time with no tool needed, can repair - by your logic it makes perfect sense.
I'm willing to excuse pushing E to open, and close DOORS, I like to assume if the room has power the marine can just push the button to open or close it. But explain to me how every marine just happen to start repair power nodes pushing E, not a bit silly maybe? how much thought you think went into this gimmick?
we need to bring back NS1 relationship between marines and commander, marines act far too independent.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do marines build then?
<!--quoteo(post=1843234:date=Apr 30 2011, 07:58 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Apr 30 2011, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1843234"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hang on a second while I jam my hand inside a power port that powers the whole room... waiting...waiting... MY HAND DIDNT BURN AND THE POWER IS BACK ON!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hang on a second while I place my hand on this imaginary structure, and like the wizard that I am, THE POWER OF MY IMAGINATION IS MAKING IT BUILD!
We have two options:
Realism: Welders are required to build or repair. Give marines welders.
Ease: No welders are required to build or repair. Hold E as usual. Explanation: Nanites.
You can't just pick and choose, buddy. Don't be a hypocrite.
And I love this idea. It's got ease AND realism.
<i>My addition.</i>
Irrelevant, though. NS/2 structures don't require assembly (though there was an idea for an assembly minigame on these forums). They just appear and take substance. If the welder were simply a programmer/director for nanobots, then you could just push a stream of nanobots, and the nanobots would assemble (or repair) the structure at the molecular level, according to the instructions given by the welder. The nanobots in the welder themselves would direct the 'embryonic stem cell' nanobots in the 'nanite grid' in the powered room.
Something like this is how I've always imagined NS welders, and even NS1 marine's "magic hands", work. Even so, it'd be cool to have a welder animation or something when "pressing E".
Or, could just have the pistol's alt fire act as a welder and there you go. Done deal. Building structures is free, repairing costs I-Res. Simple, and no need for additional animations, except maybe for the pistol to slightly "transform" into a welder, but no need of that really.
Make a 4th slot for support equipment and everything will be solved.
This build is completly mess, i won't recommand this game until YOU gave us build that improve build after build and not the opposite..
/facepalm
But they aren't testing the game to miss all these new bug that are affecting all the servers.
Oh no, i am so stupid. They are testing this multiplayer game on a LAN.. of course !
The problem is that there all many new features all the time, and with the limited time of the playtesters, it is hard to test everything. Where else do you see that many releases?
That beeing said, the latest patch runs very smooth for me, one of the better patches i would say.
This build is completly mess, i won't recommand this game until YOU gave us build that improve build after build and not the opposite..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol ok you need to:
A)Simmer down about 4 notches
B)Right click on NS2 and delete local content
C)Redownload the whole game as a singular clean build instead of a build that's had a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch.
I have none of those issues. My only issue with this build is that the aliens can't do anything to the marines. I have to be literally shoving right up against them and I still only hit 50% of the time.
as he said. We are beta testing NS2. If you are not interested in beta testing, wait until the final release is here. If you want to see NS2 grow, play the beta.
Bugs will be fixed eventually. If you could offer to pay for 50 new programmers, things would get done faster ;) But if you cant afford that, the price of NS2 will help.
Yeah yeah the testing is what i am supposed to do, but the current bugs prevent you from playing. It's very strange that UWE & the playtesters never got it before releasing build 175. Are you sometimes playing on public server with the public build ? So maybe YOU can understand what you have done ??
Maybe am i wrong, but even before a real developper release something to an open beta, it test it fully with the internal team and sometimes it gets a weird bug.
UWE is releasing lots of build, and lots of them got weird bugs/balance problem.
In this build, skulk is a completly mess and in the previous it was too much stronger. Sometimes you have to aim right ????
And i don't talk about the "hydra optimization create +5", "flamethrower balance" that we see on lots of build and remain the same after each build. You still can have a massive hydra creation process, you still can have a flamethrower hitting through wall.
If you can't do it, don't write it has been "accepted" for the next update ! For sure we will be very happy when you will really fix that in a build, but i don't see the point in writing it has been fixed... if it's not !
Lying is all that you can write on your "to do list" ????
Which are exactly the sorts of things a wide scale test is best suited to fixing. The more people who get these seemingly random crashes and bugs, and who submit reports, the easier it is to figure out what's causing them and fix it.
If you are getting constant game breaking errors then submit reports about them, what is happening on your computer is likely not happening on UWEs computers, so they need mass testing data.
And it's not happening on MY computer, it's happening on the SERVER computer (or why all the players get the same bug at the same time ?). But as i am the only one from playing those game that takes time to post the bug here, i feel a little bit alone.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A)Simmer down about 4 notches
B)Right click on NS2 and delete local content
C)Redownload the whole game as a singular clean build instead of a build that's had a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch on a patch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Especially A). Very important.
Maybe am i wrong, but even before a real developper release something to an open beta, it test it fully with the internal team and sometimes it gets a weird bug.
UWE is releasing lots of build, and lots of them got weird bugs/balance problem.
In this build, skulk is a completly mess and in the previous it was too much stronger. Sometimes you have to aim right ????
And i don't talk about the "hydra optimization create +5", "flamethrower balance" that we see on lots of build and remain the same after each build. You still can have a massive hydra creation process, you still can have a flamethrower hitting through wall.
If you can't do it, don't write it has been "accepted" for the next update ! For sure we will be very happy when you will really fix that in a build, but i don't see the point in writing it has been fixed... if it's not !
Lying is all that you can write on your "to do list" ????<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are not understanding.
This open beta, this open development, is not like that of a large company supplying after testing. It may be external, given to us in the community, as people that bought the game, but it should be considered on standard of internal playtest.
Your English might be hindering you here so I'm going to try my hardest to sum it up, shorter in French for you, to help you, but my French is rather... bad.
FR: Considérez-vous un interne playtester pour UWE. L'équipe interne playtester est à seulement 10 personnes-ish. Ils ont besoin de notre aide.
Maybe am i wrong, but even before a real developper release something to an open beta, it test it fully with the internal team and sometimes it gets a weird bug.
UWE is releasing lots of build, and lots of them got weird bugs/balance problem.
In this build, skulk is a completly mess and in the previous it was too much stronger. Sometimes you have to aim right ????
And i don't talk about the "hydra optimization create +5", "flamethrower balance" that we see on lots of build and remain the same after each build. You still can have a massive hydra creation process, you still can have a flamethrower hitting through wall.
If you can't do it, don't write it has been "accepted" for the next update ! For sure we will be very happy when you will really fix that in a build, but i don't see the point in writing it has been fixed... if it's not !
Lying is all that you can write on your "to do list" ????<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is the thing... I think part of iterating often is going to be the bugs you don't catch. I don't think at any point has Charlie or anyone else on the UWE team ever stated that this game was complete or done with development.
I don't know how many game "betas" or "alphas" you have been a part of but NS2 is pretty good compared to some of those I have been in or released to the public. I can tell you in times passed I have worked on a certain MMO which released its "beta" and you could not cast spells for some classes and if you did the game would crash or if you chose a specific model for a specific race the game would crash and this was a company that had 200 people QAing just that product and was being played by millions of people.
Something I think players do not always think about is there is a process to the magic of game making and its not always pretty; generally companies have huge QA departments that are dedicated to testing every build, NS2 has a group of dedicated players who use their free time to make sure that builds are not broken; are they going to catch everything? NO! Does it seem reasonable that they catch everything? NO! I think its unreasonable to have the expectation that there will not be builds that we push to the public that are broken. Should we try to avoid it? yes, then again we are only human.
We are generally pretty good about fixing things ASAP; build 175 is defiantly playable as we have seen people playing it. Does it have issues? yes, are we fixing those issues? yes!
I am always of the belief that someone before me can better describe whats going on present and I think todays person of the past will be Khalil Gibran (if you do not know who he is google him!) as I think he best describes the ruing of your post... :
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So there ya have it :P now go play some NS2 as its AWESOME!!!! :D GORGE 4 LIFE!!!
I see progress completed like 'Optimize xxx' and other changes that are supposed to help performance, but within 30 seconds of being in-game I can tell its still a jittery game.
This makes me just close the game right then (seriously) and ill look at it in another month.
I don't know how many game "betas" or "alphas" you have been a part of but NS2 is pretty good compared to some of those I have been in or released to the public. I can tell you in times passed I have worked on a certain MMO which released its "beta" and you could not cast spells for some classes and if you did the game would crash or if you chose a specific model for a specific race the game would crash and this was a company that had 200 people QAing just that product and was being played by millions of people.
Something I think players do not always think about is there is a process to the magic of game making and its not always pretty; generally companies have huge QA departments that are dedicated to testing every build, NS2 has a group of dedicated players who use their free time to make sure that builds are not broken; are they going to catch everything? NO! Does it seem reasonable that they catch everything? NO! I think its unreasonable to have the expectation that there will not be builds that we push to the public that are broken. Should we try to avoid it? yes, then again we are only human.
We are generally pretty good about fixing things ASAP; build 175 is defiantly playable as we have seen people playing it. Does it have issues? yes, are we fixing those issues? yes!
I am always of the belief that someone before me can better describe whats going on present and I think todays person of the past will be Khalil Gibran (if you do not know who he is google him!) as I think he best describes the ruing of your post... :<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wonder which MMO that was mr 'fresh off starcraft 2'.
I have to say I generally agree, 175 is miles better than earlier builds, not too long ago tram was physically impossible for anybody to play tram, now we've got regular games on it. FPS is generally good although there are plenty of stutters, and every build generally adds a couple of new visible features, like the doors, the doors are awesome by the way.
I think the major gripe I have, if you can call it that because I don't imagine it's intentional, is that it's kind of hard to know whether you guys know what's wrong. Like the major issue for me in this and other recent builds is crashing, which I didn't in earlier builds, it came in about the time of the lua reimplementation so I assume it's got something to do with that, but it's hard to know whether you guys are thinking 'hmm lots of people are crashing, since the past few builds, we should do something about that'.
I realise you probably do, as there are threads about it on the forums, but it is tempting to apply general forum logic to the issue, which is that no matter how many threads there are on a given subject, most people don't seem to know/care about it.
Also you seem to be kind of slow to react to things, I assume this is because you're all working off a schedule of things to do, so when you release 175 you already have 176 kinda planned out, but this can result in things like the game having a bunch of new bugs, and the next patch having things like 'fixed the sound looping bug' in the changelog, I imagine a lot of people are kind of thinking 'who cares about the sound bug <xyz> broke in the last patch why aren't they fixing that'. I know you do fix really big bugs that patches introduce quickly, but it often feels sporadic, like 'ok they fixed bug X but bug Y is pretty important and I've had it for a couple of versions and it doesn't seem to be getting fixed'. Although admittedly just because I have bug Y doesn't mean other people do.
I suppose the major issue is that open development shows all of the problems and very few of the solutions, you kinda just have to have a lot of faith in the devs ability to fix everything eventually, and like a lot of faith, it's harder to have when reality keeps poking huge holes in it. Still, Charlie managed NS1, I'm sure UWE can manage NS2.
Your focus determines your reality. Have you tried not focusing on what's wrong with the game and instead focusing on what's right with the game. I only get 10 FPS in 'r_mode specular'. I can only command use GL's or perma-gorge and my kill ratio is 1:100, but I'm having a blast playing NS2. Specular mode doesn't render DI, so I have to gorge with weapon 3 active all the time so I can tell where DI is and is not. I don't let little frustrations get in the way of my enjoyment. There will ALWAYS be some aspects of the game you are unhappy with. Change your attitude and learn to let them go. Or not. I would never want to deny anyone the choice of feeling disappointed and frustrated.