Tactical Versatility



  • MagneusMagneus Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9551Members
  • MisterproofMisterproof Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5310Members
    Thanks to Narfwak and Immacolata for two very good posts.

    Its guys like you .. and many others with great imput that makes this community so interesting.

    Now if only the people on the servers were all like that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Hehe ohh well Ill go check it out !

    Good day

  • Harry_S_TrumanHarry_S_Truman Join Date: 2002-11-21 Member: 9568Members
    edited December 2002
    <!--QuoteBegin--Narfwak+Nov 18 2002, 03:45 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narfwak @ Nov 18 2002, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hmm, "greasemonkey" sounds like a good name for whoever plays as my Commander's Handyman ™ next.  It's cool to see that someone else came up with a similar concept independantly of me.

    Er, and about that [NARF]Blimey name - please tell me that's just something you made up.  I've been using the name Narfwak for more than six years now, and I don't want some clan using my name.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I prefer Gunnery Sergeant, but hey.....whatever.
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Grease monkey is an age-old term for people that "moneky around" with greasy machinery such as automobiles or other vehicles. It can also be applied to any sort of tech expert, but tends to exhibit a more "grungy" or "dirty" feel than other terms that could be applied.
  • ShadowscorpseShadowscorpse Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10587Members
    Flatline...a great read...I concur with almost all ya wrote in ya first post...I dont think much else can be added to it.
    Grease Monkey...Im sure I heard that in Savin Private Ryan or another war movie.
    The only place I could find it came up in is at Imdb.com... "Blair: No, I just never got combat tips from a grease monkey". tis from Wing commander ...funny I know I aint seen that tho
  • NarfwakNarfwak Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
    Just thought I'd freshen things up a bit in here.

    Anyone that hasn't read <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=20&t=16215' target='_blank'>this</a> thread should, and should know that I had Flat's notes on tactical versatility and dynamics in mind during the entire course of the game. Really, we would have been doomed if we didn't adapt.

    Anyway, more people should post more stuff here. I feel guilty having more posts in my thread when Flat is so much of a better strategist than I.
  • Kid-AKid-A Join Date: 2002-12-17 Member: 10908Members
    Nice Post I have lost games due to my inflexibility.
    A big problem when I 1st started comming was that I assumed all marines were as good as me, not that im excellent but I know the maps well (partly from comming) and can often get somewhere via an alternative route. Many people can't without waypoints so I'd always send marines that couldn't achieve what I wanted. However I'd continue with this plan until it was so bad that I *had* to change as we were dying.

    Another point though is to always *have* a plan, don't just drop it and mess about for 5 minutes having no direction. Having a goal even a unlikely one is important (for me at least).
  • ShadowzShadowz Join Date: 2003-01-07 Member: 12010Members
    hi new here
    my turn to post =)
    my fren say that alien are too powerful because of fade but its also because of marine .

    marine(s) in public server make a few mistake and they think its fine .

    1) commander ---> like the name say its the commander , not the marine.

    situation : base under attack , should the commander come out <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
    NO !! well why ? skulk will be biting continuously at cc and ip , even you come out , you wil be bite once and that once cost ur life for sure . if you know its only 1 skulk , maybe you can come out but you have to wait a while before you go in again

    situation 2 : no1 is following your order how ??
    well i seen commander fed up until totally give up hope and start recycling everything .... stupid !!! 1 way , talk to em and use message to give them commands... that might seem easier

    2) marine ----> do wat the commander ask you to
    situation : you scream and scream for guns but the commander didnt give u..
    well 1 way , prove urself worthy of that gun . follow your commander orders and move to waypoint.. when you meet problem like WOL in ur way , report to comm , and if he think you need that gun , he will giv u ......

    lastly i want to say , when you see ur fellow marine around the base idling and commander dont even care , and marine are just there taking ammo from armory , i suggest F4 to solve the problem , hell how they going to use the 350 ammo <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> ( well becomng to 300 ) i cant even use more than 200 or at most 250 and i die . well useless you are fighting WOL but its also useless wif 350 ammo so what for take so much and spend time <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->

    adding more if i face more problem face by comm and marine!!
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--th@ annoying kid+Mar 27 2003, 11:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (th@ annoying kid @ Mar 27 2003, 11:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> change is good <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Like the title says... Change <b>IS</b> good. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • White_Kite_FaunaWhite_Kite_Fauna Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16133Members
    Negative. I disagree.

    You can not win a game without plan(s). Only by luck.

    Let me explain. Although the topic is basing on the obvious ideas of flexible commanding, it does not give a clear explanation HOW. As one of the posters(Crazed Monk On a Mission) noted, *sometimes* it's not good to turn your strategy by 180 degrees. I'd say many of the times.

    STUBBORNness wins

    How many games I was amazed how constant pressure and never-giving-up really works! Marines coming to the hive and getting eaten, coming again and getting eaten, coming again and again and again, loosing 3 TF and a lot of turrets, shotties, mines welders in the process. Now everybody on the aliens think marines MUST change their tactics now, and aliens spread out to check far corners of the map. What do you think happens? Marines keep coming to the same spot, come there finally build TF siege the hive and win the game!
    Aliens. This is the best race for examples. How many times I left the game because it was "obviously" lost. (I dont do that any more - NEVER_GIVE_UP! is my motto now, thanks to the NS). And how I was amazed when returning to the same game, to discover the constant attacking of a point on a map succeded!

    Do not disperse!

    That's maybe my personal experince but I lost lots of games because I was trying to achieve all at once, instead of sticking to a single plan. I was doing MT and armor upgrades, then dropping PG and TFs, then switching to JPs, etc. Well it does not work. You can have a lot of stuff but if you dont concentrate on the main direction (I call it a plan) it would not help. Always have general (not detailed) main plan and stick to it, especially if it works! If it does not, try harder, try again! If it still does not, ...


    Sometimes plans just simply do not work. You need to train the feeling if your main plan is failing. Then and only then you need to switch over to another (backup) plan. But not just sit and wait for the opportunity! If you see the main plan is hopeless (which is always arguable and subjective), or do not want to take the risk, switch to the backup plan. And here is important p[art: you need to prepare several plans in advance: decide what plan is the best in what situation and then switch over.

    Well all this is not against the idea tha comm does not have to use good opportunities. If you soldier happened to sneak to the hive and you can drop a PG without big risks, of course you can consider that. But if you already went to JP rush route, and it's going well, wasting money on the PGs will likely get you killed.

    But what I got from this "change is good" guide is that the major idea for the comm is to sit and wait around for the aliens to give some opportunities. No way! All battles can be and must be planned in advance with several backups! You do not need to plan the whole battle, of course. What is really needed is to define some strategies / subplans and activating them according to circumstances. But that is not possible without carefull consideration in advance(and I call it planning)

    Ah well. Just my opinion.
  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    Good points all around White Kite Fauna.

    The main thing I was trying to get at is that even if you do have a plan, don't be scared of changing it up a bit. Give up immediately? No. Weigh your options and try something new? You bet. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    By the way, if anyone still remembers me from this board, I plan on getting back into things upon v2.0's release!
  • InafiscisisInafiscisis Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15965Members
    You got some good points there White Kite Fauna, but you also have some statements I simply
    must object to.

    "STUBBORNness wins"?


    THAT was stubborn. That was also very stupid.

    "But what I got from this "change is good" guide is that the major idea for the comm is to sit and wait around for the aliens to give some opportunities."

    Now, sitting around and waiting for an opportunity will not give you anything to change, neither will you
    have any ability to react to any change. What you should get from this "change is good" guide should
    rather be to not be too stubborn, and to try a different approach if what you're doing isn't working.
    There is more than one way to skin a cat, as they say. Don't change the goal itself, change the path.

    I will have to agree/partially agree with all other points made.

    Don't go into battle without a plan. But as stated in the fist post:
    No plan survives first contact with the enemy.
  • GatlingGatling Join Date: 2003-07-24 Member: 18397Members
    Well Flat here has it nailed down on tactical flexibilty.

    Stubborness is not always the way to fight most of the time.

    Here's an example.....

    Last night I was commanding the Marines on the Nano Gridlock server. The map was Bast. I did a somewhat predictable re-location to Atmospheric Processing right off the bat. The alien's first hive was feedwater right around the corner. I got two Res nodes up right away and told my marines to suppress feedwater in an attempt to do a siege on the hive.

    The fighting was intense, just when i had a TF down outside feed (with 3 marines guarding) a gaggle of skulks pushed us back and took the TF. For 5 minutes we tried to hold the grating outside of Feed long enough to attempt to seige with no luck. I scanned the refinery and heard a gorg running around.

    I knew time was running out, if we continued to pound feedwater we would be in fade trouble very soon. I had been pooling resources in prep for fast TF siege build. (I give great credit to my marines who worked as team and didn't question me at all) It was at this point I recalled Flatline's post in my head, "This isn't working, you need to change." (and change fast)

    With about 112 resources in the bank I recalled all marines to our atmospheric base. I told my guys "we're going to try something not normally done." I gave out 7 shotguns to 7 marines. It got real quiet real fast around the armory. Someone finally said, "uh ok, I've only seen this done once."

    Well 7 shotgun marines went down the hall to Feedwater with me following them overhead. One skulk tried to jump off the wall onto the herd of marines. If you have ever been duck hunting with 4 or 5 guys in a duck blind or skeet shooting you know first hand what happened next. That skulk never made it to the ground alive.

    At any rate the marines buckshoted all the skulks on the way to feed with no losses. At feedwater I ordered everyone to unload on the hive. We lost 6 marines but the 7th one managed to drop the hive. The end game timer started ringing, it worked.

    The aliens managed to get the refinery hive started, I took advantage of that time to grab every resource node on the map. 3 minutes later it was all over.

    Had I been stubborn and kept throwing marines and TF sieges at Feedwater I doubt the outcome would have been very good for the marines.

    If something it isn't working, stop and rethink. What are your options? What resources do you have? What would the other team totally not expect?

    If you have marines that will listen to you and can shoot worth a damn you have won the hardest part of commanding in NS. Being flexibile, creative and competent is the rest of the fight. Luck is maybe 5% of the whole thing.

    Oh and last of all a shotgun rush is not always a good idea. It's worked 1 of 2 times that I have tried it as a commander. Also I do believe Flatline was one of the aliens picking skulkshot pellets out of his arse last night. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

  • FlatlineUTDFlatlineUTD Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7695Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It was at this point I recalled Flatline's post in my head, "This isn't working, you need to change." (and change fast)<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well I'm glad it helped someone. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I do believe Flatline was one of the aliens picking skulkshot pellets out of his arse last night.  <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nope, sorry, wasn't me. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> I haven't played 1.04 in about 5 months, except for a few random instances when people need a Commander.

    I did play a game last night, but it was on ns_caged. Stupid people copying my name. If it's not Flatline[UTD] it's not me.
  • InafiscisisInafiscisis Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15965Members
    Shotgun rush? lol that's very unusual. I've actually never seen a vanilla rine + sg rush.

    Now, if you were to throw in a few jps though...<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • thrazzthrazz Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19464Members, Constellation
    I agree 100%. I have seen many games lost by marines just by "hoping-aliens-won't-attack-here" and also many others lost by losing time.
  • StarludeStarlude Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20576Members
    excellently written. And a nice reply post on general marine field tatics also. Flexability is a necessity, not only for a commander but also for his soldiers. Maybe you might want to write something up on field strats/tatics also.
  • Marvin_The_WooMarvin_The_Woo Join Date: 2003-09-18 Member: 20979Members
    What I read is very interesting but incomplete, I think. Do you want to be a good commander and know all weakpoints of the ennemy? So, become the ennemy. You want to learn about Kharaa's Tactics, play Kharaa. In all tactics you will read, "Think as if you were the ennemy, become him, and you'll destroy him". It's a game and we have the opportunity to become the frontiersmen's ennemy. So, to be a good Marine, be a good Kharaa.

    I also read that improvisation wasn't good to win when you are a commander. I don't agree with you guys. What is improvisation? Adapting a specific strategy to a specific case that u didn't expect. The more you improvise, the more you can win. But you must fulfill several conditions:
    1. Knowing some Kharaa's strategy.
    2. Be a good Marine before being Commander. If you learn the edges and the flaws of the Marines, as commander u can adapt your tactics.
    3. Read the manual of the marines and aliens if u hadn't do it.

    What I say is what I use in game. it's just a piece of advice like the others posts. I know some of you hate to play aliens, but to become the best you should take the hardway.
    I hope I got answers to this post.
  • Marvin_The_WooMarvin_The_Woo Join Date: 2003-09-18 Member: 20979Members
    About strat, I want to talk about the resources, THE most important thing in a conflict. I saw differents strat to take nodes before building upgrades (Sensory, Armory Labs, etc):
    1. Taking the nodes the marines start and defend them with maximum turrets. Building the turrets first to secure the area and expect an alien's rush. Build the TF near the node and electrify it if you can.

    2. Going directly to a hive and get the resources of the hive. Then establish a base in this hive. You should take a hive near marines start, with the less shadows or the less alien's access (ventilations), with the nearest nodes. Secure first the area (TF, a lot of marines), and then bilt the new CC.

    3. Move quickly to nodes, built and just electrify them. The perfect team for each node is three soldiers. One is building and the others are covering the area.
    There are also other methods, but I just post the the most I saw and I try to use.

    1. <b>Good:</b> The turrets (minimum 4 turrets) protect the nodes and the marines/Counter OC building to destroy electrify nodes
    <b>Bad:</b> Need more than three soldiers if they are average skills / High costs for the beginning/ Near the base only.

    2. <b>Good:</b> Two hives maximum for the aliens / bigger than marines start / prevent from an alien's rush to marines start.
    <b>Bad:</b> The aliens know how to access easily to it (ventilations, etc)

    3. <b>Good:</b> Quick strategy / slow down the gorge's constructions / marines could be protected from an attack (skulk or gorge) by staying near the nodes.
    <b>Bad:</b> Gorge can build OC to destroy them and defend the node's area / high costs (15+30!)

    Later, you should build a phase gate for each important node you got.
    I am interesting by your opinions and strats.
  • StarludeStarlude Join Date: 2003-09-05 Member: 20576Members
    edited December 2003
    Marvin - The Woo -, I use the third strat you described almost exclusively. if a gorge drops OCs there, it makes me REALLY happy. Remeber, each OC is 10 res, and if he spends 30 res taking out my 45 res tower (which still takes a while), then plops down his own (which he rarely gets a chance to, *grins evilly*, that's 45 of his res too. send in one or two rines to charge the gorge, and oppps, either he has to waste another 10 res going gorge again, or if he's lazy, won't even build that rt. a few LMGS can easily destroy the OCs. and if he spends more (say 2 DCs etc.) then that's even MORE res wasted on that single res tower, which he can hive, cause while he has it, I'll be taking his hive <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • Lost3Lost3 Join Date: 2003-12-09 Member: 24181Members
    <span style='font-size:9pt;line-height:100%'>Okay this is a bit lengthy.. just a warning...

    I first started this post a way to point out the <b>huge</b> value scouts can be to a Comm. As my example, recently there was a game I played where I was Comm ... I can't for the life of me remember the map name... Its the one with the Skylight node west of the Marine start and topographical East of marine start. Also where there are 2 vents behind marine start that you REALLY ought to seal up.

    If I recall right the teams were about 8 on 8, a good nice medium-sized game. I immediately sent 5 marines to the Skylight node (lead by a guy called Raistlin), to secure it advance South on the map get the next node, then hopefully continue South and secure the Hive (Sub-Sector) in the SW corner of the map. Of course the aliens had their start hive in the Sub-Sector hive so Skylight quickly became a large furball. At the same time I sent one other guy to the Topographic node and the last marine to finish building marine start and seal those vents. The marine at Topographical (his name was Froste I think)capped Topographic, and walked straight to the Double Node directly South of Marine Start and found no aliens at all there. As soon as I had rez I threw him nodes and TF and the works. Remember, all the while I have keep sending men to Skylight. My thinking was this:

    <i><b>Skylight is the main fight but, its also my main distraction. I'm fighting in Skylight so I don't have to fight them anywhere else. </i></b>

    In fact I hardly gave the guys in skylight anything as far as help... I think I gave them 3 shotguns eventually... but no ammo no health. To be sure lvl upgrades were underway and such but, no direct help was given.

    Eventually that Froste guy and the builder marine (who had joined him via the phase gate now there) then sprinted SE to the furthest hive. There was again, not a single alien there nor any defenses nor even an alien resource nodes. We quickly got a phase up there, TFed it, capped the node. Then they ran to Cargo. Bear in mind Sklylight is still the main fight STILL. The scout team gets to cargo and there is finally a <b>single lone egg</b> gestating there. Apparently not everyone on the aliens team thought it was such a hot idea to be in Skylight all the time. The egg dies quickly, and within a minute or so the 2nd Hive is completely locked down with basically zero resistance from the aliens. From then on its never even a question if they can come back. By now we have lvl 3 weps, lvl 2 armor, motion tracking , advanced armory, HA is finished up, and I find I have 150 rez that I can equip all of my marines with. So let me try and compile my thoughts or points....

    <u>Why did we win?</u>
    1. The aliens never thought long term they saw fighting in one spot and kept at it regardless of anything else.
    2. Froste won the game by getting and securing Double Rez UN-noticed
    3. Froste & Raistlin had the (thankfully) common sense to listen to what I told them to do
    4. I was talking NON stop to all my marines about everything that was going on (which hive we had, were taking, what upgrades were en route, etc...)
    5. The marines guys at Skylight didn't give up</ul>
    I think point 4 is really important, personally. It is a HUGE boost to morale of your men if they know the game plan and they KNOW that you are doing things for them. Telling them lvl 1 weps are on the way (for example) lets them know you aren't just watching them die. Letting the marines know what your are doing and if you have time, WHY really makes unit cohesion much easier to form and maintain. If you don't then its just a rabble of guys milling about bugging the Comm for weapons and ammo. Additionaly, selecting your sargents or lts. to lead certain areas is important too. People naturally gravitate to the leaders and follow them, even if they individually may not pay too much attention to the Comm. If the leaders are doing the right thing most people will follow along.

    I think points 1 and 5 are tricky to pin down to a rule of thumb as far as stubborness is concerned. Its true that the aliens quite simply should not have been so stubborn at Skylight but, if a good chunk of my team hadn't... the aliens would have been in our base. Or the aliens might have been convinced Skylight was OK and gone elsewhere ont he map. I don't think there really is a hard and fast rule to know when to shift your priorites and objectives. I do however, think is critical to keep all your options open and to leap at any opportunities that pop up. One lone marine, Froste, won that game for us. Which I think is just a good example of one of Sun Tzu maxims (and Clausewitz if you like) that you don't have to fight and kill the enemy to nessecarily win your battles.</span>
  • v4rAv4rA Join Date: 2003-11-28 Member: 23672Members, Constellation
    Everyone thx, this have been very usefull for me, ^^ I like u guys, keep on helping others ^^
    thx Lost and THX FLATLINE <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
  • gusdawngusdawn Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13698Members
    Excellent writing Flatline! Im glad that you are implementing Sun Tzu's advice. Im currently working on a book that deciphers Sun-tzu, Carl Von Claustovitz, Sun Wu, and others into a very digestable form. It gives the reader the structure of winning. It can be applied to all video games, and even real games. I intend to have it published in the near future.

    By your writing, i can tell that you are a true gamefarist! GJ!

    Gus Maximus
    The Art of Gamefare

    Ps- A gamefarist is a player that plays video games, like ns, like a fast paced 3-d chess game. Check out our server: The Art of Gamefare NS Dojo (
  • gusdawngusdawn Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13698Members
    O, by the way, i have studied the art of winning for several years now. But one thing remains the same, we are doomed to forget the lessons we have already learned (especailly me). Thanks for the reminder!

    Gus Maximus
    The Art of Gamefare
    the art of winning
  • degamer106degamer106 Join Date: 2004-05-09 Member: 28550Banned
    uhh... usually a lot of people don't use philosophy to play violent games.
  • Gerald_R_FordGerald_R_Ford Join Date: 2003-11-11 Member: 22544Members
    good to see this thread updated with 3. beta3-5 info.
  • ScyllaScylla Join Date: 2003-08-05 Member: 18942Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No plan survives first contact with the enemy.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That’s the most important thing about comm’ing. You may have a strategy to win a game but often you wont able to fulfil a milestones of the strategy and many commanders get caught in this milestone loosing morale, resources and time.

    Games I won through changing the plan:

    1. Caged: Locked one hive and had a phase gate, turret factory and some turrets up at the generator hive siege position. My light marines were battling against 3 lerks, 2 fades and skulks leaping in. In my strategy I won’t go out for heavy armour but because of the spore spam I decided to tech heavy armour and invested the resources into prototype lab and heavy armour research. While researching I helped my marines with medpacks so they were able to stay a little bit longer in combat. The first 3 heavy armours were able to hold the siege position and we were able to get 3 sieges up and kill the hive and win that round.

    That’s a sample of a small change of the plan will help you to fulfil a milestone.

    2. Metal (Beta 4a version): Build in the base and locked smelter early. As the alien team had the better players I decided to try a resource tower rush and go out for heavy armour. Alien build Sub hive, but very late, giving us an advantage (good old middle hive lockdown) and we got phase gate, turret factory and turrets up at heating and the first heavy armour given out. But alien were able to fight off my marines with skulks and fades and by the time sub is going up.
    My marines tried their best but they were out-skilled by the alien players defending their hive.
    That time I changed my plan deciding trying to attack the cooling hive. I gave one off the most reliable marine the order to go to cooling hive while my other marines still attacking sub hive. After my Rambo got the phase gate up me distress’ed my marines back to base while selling all of heating. My marines phased to cooling and were able to down the hive in some seconds and fight of the incoming waves of alien. That was the point of the turnaround of this round.

    That’s a sample of changing a milestone because the other milestone isn’t achievable.

    I must admit i lost more matches because i was stucked in my strategy. Don’t hesitate to change your plan.
  • JalalJalal Join Date: 2004-09-16 Member: 31738Members
    You never know when the move you made is the right one or not. More times than often, when i've blown a game that was in the bag or somehow managed to win a game when the aliens covered 90% of the map, it was only in hindsight that you can identify just when and where things went your way or when things went 'pbbt'.

    But somethings just stand out as a comm and if you can get your marines to play along then you have a better than 50-50 chance of scoring a win. These are some of the general guidelines i've learnt to use after having had my butt handed to me repeatedly for making the mistakes i'm warning against as under,

    <b>Dont be afraid of making sacrifices for a tactical advantage - </b>or in other words - recognise diversions for what they are. Skulk munching on your RT? Ignore him. Theres an Onos lurking outside your base while your marines lock down a hive or a double res? dont panic and port them all in to take out that one Onos. chances are that by the time you lose that one RT or take out that one onos, you've successfuly allowed the pace of the game to switch to the aliens and you are now reacting to them as opposed to making the aliens react to you. I've seen it happen to me so many times. coordinated aliens stage an attack somewhere on the map. i rush my marines to defend it and two aliens recover a locked down hive else where on the map.

    <b>There's much to be said for a grease monkey</b> - base protection, building while you support your attacking marines, base defense etc. I always have one, atleast until i have lvl 1 upgrades and a pg network established for more mobility.

    <b>Rambos make for good diversions themselves -</b> rambos are inevitable and no matter how much you love to hate them remember that every marine in your team has some use, even the lone idiot. whenever i have an inveterate rambo who refuses to listen to the comm, i support him with ammo and health. in time, i jp him with a SG or a HMG. then i make run him all over the map. that one lone rambo doesnt take out very many aliens and chances are that he dies a horrible death all alone. but if he gets lucky and equal chances are he will, that rambo manages to attack [if not destroy] so many alien buildings that the aliens suddenly find their screens filled with this and that under attack. keep this up and suddenly you will find alien resistance thin out as more and more aliens split up to find out just what or who is hitting their buildings. thats when your main force moves in to nail the primary target. its a simple trick to be sure but i'm amazed how many times it works. that rambo is also useful to kill alien rts to starve for res.

    <b>You got legs dont you? -</b> Theres an entire freaking map out there. go use it. Set nothing in stone. not even your buildings or your base. be prepared mentally to get the hell out of dodge and relocate at a moment's notice. Easier said than done i know, but it can be handled provided you have some good marines to go along with it. This is something i learnt comming metal once during a hive lockdown, the one on the top right of the map, i forget the name of the area. anyways the end result of it all was both sides managed to wipe out the other's spawning areas. i took out their hive and they effectively screwed over marine spawn [no ips or tfs]. i sold like mad and scrounged enough to set up a new base in their own hive. sure we had to defend like crazy for the next few minutes as the aliens got their second hive up and used their res advantage to rush some fades and an onos at us. but with some sneaky rt captures at odd spots on the map we managed ultimately to finance a victory before the aliens noticed that they werent getting the res they used to.

    <b>Money makes the game go down - </b>God! I've seen so many commanders so in love with their own intelligence that they concoct and then try to execute the most elaborate of strategies while ignoring this most basic tenant 0 res = 0 fade/onos/oc/2nd hive. dont be one of them. sometimes i find it most convenient to shotgun rush rts. i send out squads not to attack aliens or their hives, but to assassinate any gorges we find and to take out and then take over alien rts. if your marines pull it off, you're the one with cash and not them. It's the simplest most basic tenant in the game. sometimes, its all i do. i completely ignore hives and spend my time killing alien rts. with the net result that aliens dont even have the cash to scrounge up a second hive while i have pinged and sent over a squad of lvl 3 HAs armed to the teeth to have some fun in the one and only hive. in a nutshell - hit them where it hurts, the resources. manage this and the hive going down is a given.

    Following these simple tactics and then adapting on the fringes with these principles as the core, i find that as a comm, i have fewer moments when i have to rethink from scratch my strategy or watch in dismay as my marines die in droves.
  • JalalJalal Join Date: 2004-09-16 Member: 31738Members
    Its been ages since i posted here to be sure, let alone this thread. but continuing on tactical versatility and on the other thread of situational awareness...

    <b>DECOY DECOY DECOY!!!</b>

    If you have the res and if you have marines that arent total f**kheads - and in this map, i did. I faked bases all over the map! constructed comms, Armories,PGs, no IPs...fake bases everywhere with just enough defenses to look credible. [yes it was a long game with see-saw fortunes - we were all fully upgraded with no one side gaining a clear advantage. i'd hit them, they'd hit me back and then we'd spend the next five minutes licking our wounds and recovering].

    I couldnt split up the aliens long enough for my marines to make a difference - so i gave them targets other than my RTs and my marines to nail - DUMMY BASES! so when ONOS started splitting from the main group to stray and wait long enough to rambo my many dummy bases, we were able to pick them off one at a time, split them up long enough for us to take down a hive loaded with MC and SC and pick up the win. just how long a game was this...try 1hour 50 min approx <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->

    It was a lame tactic i agree, but the basic principle is the same. so many comms here are so wrapped with build orders, researches and the tech specs of the game that they forget that their primary function is strategic. SO BE STRATEGIC! If the aliens are munching on decoys, they're not munching on your marines and that is a GOOD THING! relocations, squad formations, building arrangements are all means to an end - the end is your grand plan, your strat and if it involves a healthy dose of alien mind f**k then so much the better your chances of winning.

    You can tech, fast build, key board shortcut the crap out of the game and still lose. Belaboring the obvious, i know, but the strategy comes first, everything else must support it. and if you can divert alien attention like the cattle they are...you got it made.
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