remiremedy [blu.knight]Join Date: 2003-11-18Member: 23112Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1826533:date=Jan 23 2011, 05:46 PM:name=aeroripper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (aeroripper @ Jan 23 2011, 05:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826533"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://blackmage.org/supernorn/minmap3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /> 5) I like the continuity between the l2,l3 icons on the alien hives like you did with the marine comm stations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd actually prefer to see the L2 L3 as labels outside the hive icon the same as is done with CCs.
I agree the CC closed shouldn't lose upgrade info.
I would also suggest not outlining everything in such a dark color. It takes away from it. The marines especially have way too much dark outlining going on. Here's some info on this: <a href="http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/softening.html" target="_blank">http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/softening.html</a>
The heavy marine does not come across well, i think i have the right idea.. just need to do it better and make it more apparent, same with hive colony the white flying things need to be bigger.
twilitebluebug stalkerJoin Date: 2003-02-04Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Occupied (closed) command stations could be made clearly visible with a glow effect, which would also eliminate the need for a very different looking open comm station sprite.
<!--quoteo(post=1826509:date=Jan 23 2011, 11:45 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Jan 23 2011, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've started tweaking some of the finished icons so marines, sentries and res nodes are smaller than before. Couple new ones as well:
mostly not stoked on armory ones, extractor, and the ARC.. needs some kinda change
the thing in the middle is a tech point, probably needs to be more tech point shaped,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I love the CC and hive icons as they are.
Im finding i like different parts of both styles, however i think the smooth and nicely textured look from Runteh and xVisions work best, perhaps a bit darker and more detailed where appropriate, Supernorn and Tig's look kind of classic, im not sure they stand out as well but are good anyway and would be fine to use.
If i was to choose a good mix i would say go with the first style but add more detail to some of the icons, the res points and com look too plain in Runteh's, the upgrade indicators in xVisions look cool and i prefer the door weld style and simple death mark Tig uses, though claws could be used to show where an alien killed a marine as well.
Whilst I think the pixel art style looks cool, my issue with it is that it actually takes a lot longer to read. I find everything looks very similar, where as the object of this is to make things easily identifiable. I want to know straight away what has been upgraded, and by how much. I don't want to spend time looking round a minimap squinting at something to see whether it is an L2 or L3 upgrade. You have to remember that not everyone has the eyesight of a 15 year old.
I also believe that silhouette is probably the big identifier when it comes to recognising icons, and this is exactly why in mine I have dropped the tint and shade levels. Enough so that when overlapping you can still identify them, whilst at the same time preserving the silhouette.
Inner detail makes you work a lot harder. It is why most icons tend not to have any, especially when you have many on screen at any one time. You have to remember that in itself it is a very small (but important) part of the game. When you are playing intense matches the last thing you want to be doing is wondering whether a building was L2 or L3 because you just died and the fog of war has covered it up again and you did not quite catch it. You have to remember the context this is within, which is an art piece as a whole - it is not just the icons you will be looking at.
I would like to see supernorn's with the tint and shade levels dropped, and the upgrades made more obvious. Then it might be a winner for me, if I wasn't to choose my own that is ;P
<!--quoteo(post=1826595:date=Jan 24 2011, 08:08 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 24 2011, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Issues of brightness are dependent on the chroma of the hue you choose to overlay, or the opacity of the overlay/colour layer for the icons.
Whilst I think the pixel art style looks cool, my issue with it is that it actually takes a lot longer to read. I find everything looks very similar, where as the object of this is to make things easily identifiable. I want to know straight away what has been upgraded, and by how much. I don't want to spend time looking round a minimap squinting at something to see whether it is an L2 or L3 upgrade. You have to remember that not everyone has the eyesight of a 15 year old.
I also believe that silhouette is probably the big identifier when it comes to recognising icons, and this is exactly why in mine I have dropped the tint and shade levels. Enough so that when overlapping you can still identify them, whilst at the same time preserving the silhouette.
Inner detail makes you work a lot harder. It is why most icons tend not to have any, especially when you have many on screen at any one time. You have to remember that in itself it is a very small (but important) part of the game. When you are playing intense matches the last thing you want to be doing is wondering whether a building was L2 or L3 because you just died and the fog of war has covered it up again and you did not quite catch it. You have to remember the context this is within, which is an art piece as a whole - it is not just the icons you will be looking at.
I would like to see supernorn's with the tint and shade levels dropped, and the upgrades made more obvious. Then it might be a winner for me, if I wasn't to choose my own that is ;P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is a lot of text for saying those are perfect and easily readable. :P
Hehe :P I don't think there is any one right answer, there never is. Obviously each artist/designer would like their own creations to be used. Perfect is too strong a word, 'considered in their context and implementation' is probably more what I am thinking :)
<!--quoteo(post=1826617:date=Jan 24 2011, 10:02 AM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 24 2011, 10:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826617"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hehe :P I don't think there is any one right answer, there never is. Obviously each artist/designer would like their own creations to be used. Perfect is too strong a word, 'considered in their context and implementation' is probably more what I am thinking :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah perfect is too strong, but i like those the best because of how well they stand out plus there isn't a chibi marine walking around on the minmap lol.. i also think the colors go really well with the minmap color.
Just one more post from me, there are already too many from me on here. I just keep going back and tweaking things based on feedback! I will submit these finally to UWE.
I think everything is on here.
With regards to brightness/contrast/etc, that is all easily tweakable.
I find this map hard to read, what are those green and orange circles? <img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7379/iconsdarker.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
One thing missing from all the maps is an indicator of which areas have power.
Green and Orange circles are the Marine/Alien commander, the smaller circles (one with 3 arrows around, one with one above) are for personal and squad waypoints.
As for the power nodes, they did not ask for them in the brief.
I'll finish the rest of mine this week maybe; starting class again today(got rift beta) lol. Honestly though if you like any of the style or ideas in mine feel free to use it in yours I don't have any problem with it.
@ Runteh, shape and contrasting bright/dark patterns sort of what I',m going for the easy to recognize factor
I really wish we could put them all in game and test them out, have to wait for patch though (i asked). Reason being mocks do not look like the in-game version of the icons necessarily.
If you photoshop mock, this is about the look of the ingame current coloring do Hue/Saturation, colorize;
Hue/saturation/lightness
Green: 115, 70, -35~ Red: 0, 70, -35~ Orange: 30, 100, -35~ (have not done orange in game yet but for purpose of mock)
Also i mean you could change the in game color if you so choose. Alright peace lol
I'm trying to get silhouette working, it is quite hard though. I think in terms of my symbols, and how each is unique and identifiable they work. But in terms of contrast not so much.
Supernorns are working the best at the moment in some respects, also some of yours are very nice xVisions.
What do you guys think of something more like this (quick rough draft).
<!--quoteo(post=1826625:date=Jan 24 2011, 06:33 PM:name=peregrinus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peregrinus @ Jan 24 2011, 06:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826625"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One thing missing from all the maps is an indicator of which areas have power.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
that would be great and cory said they might colorize automagically vents so it could be applied to shutdown areas as well (precalculated range of minimaps)
<!--quoteo(post=1826638:date=Jan 24 2011, 06:12 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 24 2011, 06:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you guys think of something more like this (quick rough draft).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's looking good, makes it pop out a bit more, definitely an improvement!
it would be cool if they pick and choose from different sets. I really just wanted an opportunity to help out and possibly get my name in the game credits at the end, that would look amazing on a resume when i try to get into the game industry.
<!--quoteo(post=1826536:date=Jan 23 2011, 11:15 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jan 23 2011, 11:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826536"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->We can scale them down on our end to fit into the maps better. Its better to have the art be a higher res and scale them down, then to have the art be too low res to scale up as needed.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is something i wish you had put in the guidelines before i started. i designed my scale to specification of the sample minimap pictures given...
<!--quoteo(post=1826648:date=Jan 24 2011, 01:51 PM:name=Runteh)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runteh @ Jan 24 2011, 01:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yours are pretty big though are they not Tig? They fill 32x32 don't they?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
no, some of them do not fill the whole 32 because i thought they should be in scale with the other icons, so for instance, my grenade is only 8 pixels, so the detail is extremely low cuz it was in (relative) scale with everything else.
but it's cool, i think i'm going to take the icons i like and redo a bigger set with more detail.
Some feedback for your set Runteh, most of it is just minor stuff:
<ul><li>Marine and Jetpack Marine should be filled with the same bright colour, the dark just disappears against the map itself so the Jetpack Marine looks just like two triangles. I think it will be distinguishable anyway.</li><li>Mature Whip should hold a larger ball rather than 2x2 white pixel-fill there is now.</li><li>Alien Commander icon should have an oval shape rather than completely round, I know it's supposed to look like an eye but I think it will come across more easy if it was shaped like one too.</li><li>Deployed ARC could have some white so we can see the barrel, to hint that the vehicle is in fact a weapon.</li><li>Heavy Marine arrow looks a bit plain, that it is slightly larger doesn't come across to me as "armoured". Could play around with the "dual-wielding" concept for that shape perhaps?</li></ul>
Comments
5) I like the continuity between the l2,l3 icons on the alien hives like you did with the marine comm stations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd actually prefer to see the L2 L3 as labels outside the hive icon the same as is done with CCs.
I agree the CC closed shouldn't lose upgrade info.
I would also suggest not outlining everything in such a dark color. It takes away from it. The marines especially have way too much dark outlining going on.
Here's some info on this: <a href="http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/softening.html" target="_blank">http://www.natomic.com/hosted/marks/mpat/softening.html</a>
The heavy marine does not come across well, i think i have the right idea.. just need to do it better and make it more apparent, same with hive colony the white flying things need to be bigger.
<a href="http://img23.imageshack.us/i/gamekn.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7523/gamekn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
<img src="http://blackmage.org/supernorn/bigmock2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://blackmage.org/supernorn/minmap3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--coloro:#2E8B57--><span style="color:#2E8B57"><!--/coloro--><b><!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->$<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--></b><!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<a href="http://img28.imageshack.us/i/norn.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4908/norn.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
not really turning out well. :( owell
<a href="http://img18.imageshack.us/i/iconsg.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/9638/iconsg.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
mostly not stoked on armory ones, extractor, and the ARC.. needs some kinda change
the thing in the middle is a tech point, probably needs to be more tech point shaped,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I love the CC and hive icons as they are.
<img src="http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7130/jon5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
My fav is the cool retro style one by supernorn. The other ones are all good just the icons are too bright for me.
and thanks to the devs for letting the community have this chance!
<img src="http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/7130/jon5.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1826487:date=Jan 23 2011, 08:26 PM:name=xVisions)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xVisions @ Jan 23 2011, 08:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><a href="http://img513.imageshack.us/i/iconsf.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/7038/iconsf.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1826509:date=Jan 23 2011, 11:45 PM:name=Supernorn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Supernorn @ Jan 23 2011, 11:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://blackmage.org/supernorn/bigmock2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://blackmage.org/supernorn/minmap3.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1826523:date=Jan 24 2011, 01:17 AM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Jan 24 2011, 01:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://www.nicholashillyard.com/images/ns2_skyfalls/minimap_icons_nkh_256.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im finding i like different parts of both styles, however i think the smooth and nicely textured look from Runteh and xVisions work best, perhaps a bit darker and more detailed where appropriate, Supernorn and Tig's look kind of classic, im not sure they stand out as well but are good anyway and would be fine to use.
If i was to choose a good mix i would say go with the first style but add more detail to some of the icons, the res points and com look too plain in Runteh's, the upgrade indicators in xVisions look cool and i prefer the door weld style and simple death mark Tig uses, though claws could be used to show where an alien killed a marine as well.
For example:
<img src="http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7379/iconsdarker.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Whilst I think the pixel art style looks cool, my issue with it is that it actually takes a lot longer to read. I find everything looks very similar, where as the object of this is to make things easily identifiable. I want to know straight away what has been upgraded, and by how much. I don't want to spend time looking round a minimap squinting at something to see whether it is an L2 or L3 upgrade. You have to remember that not everyone has the eyesight of a 15 year old.
I also believe that silhouette is probably the big identifier when it comes to recognising icons, and this is exactly why in mine I have dropped the tint and shade levels. Enough so that when overlapping you can still identify them, whilst at the same time preserving the silhouette.
Inner detail makes you work a lot harder. It is why most icons tend not to have any, especially when you have many on screen at any one time. You have to remember that in itself it is a very small (but important) part of the game. When you are playing intense matches the last thing you want to be doing is wondering whether a building was L2 or L3 because you just died and the fog of war has covered it up again and you did not quite catch it. You have to remember the context this is within, which is an art piece as a whole - it is not just the icons you will be looking at.
I would like to see supernorn's with the tint and shade levels dropped, and the upgrades made more obvious. Then it might be a winner for me, if I wasn't to choose my own that is ;P
For example:
<img src="http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/7379/iconsdarker.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Whilst I think the pixel art style looks cool, my issue with it is that it actually takes a lot longer to read. I find everything looks very similar, where as the object of this is to make things easily identifiable. I want to know straight away what has been upgraded, and by how much. I don't want to spend time looking round a minimap squinting at something to see whether it is an L2 or L3 upgrade. You have to remember that not everyone has the eyesight of a 15 year old.
I also believe that silhouette is probably the big identifier when it comes to recognising icons, and this is exactly why in mine I have dropped the tint and shade levels. Enough so that when overlapping you can still identify them, whilst at the same time preserving the silhouette.
Inner detail makes you work a lot harder. It is why most icons tend not to have any, especially when you have many on screen at any one time. You have to remember that in itself it is a very small (but important) part of the game. When you are playing intense matches the last thing you want to be doing is wondering whether a building was L2 or L3 because you just died and the fog of war has covered it up again and you did not quite catch it. You have to remember the context this is within, which is an art piece as a whole - it is not just the icons you will be looking at.
I would like to see supernorn's with the tint and shade levels dropped, and the upgrades made more obvious. Then it might be a winner for me, if I wasn't to choose my own that is ;P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is a lot of text for saying those are perfect and easily readable. :P
yeah perfect is too strong, but i like those the best because of how well they stand out plus there isn't a chibi marine walking around on the minmap lol.. i also think the colors go really well with the minmap color.
I think everything is on here.
With regards to brightness/contrast/etc, that is all easily tweakable.
<img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7379/iconsdarker.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4301/joniconspsd2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7379/iconsdarker.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
One thing missing from all the maps is an indicator of which areas have power.
The arrows for Marines is a fantastic idea. I really disliked the bulkiness of the other proposed designs.
For me this is the best and simplest door designs by far and they also would be exactly what you would see looking down.
<!--quoteo(post=1826294:date=Jan 22 2011, 08:45 PM:name=monopolowa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (monopolowa @ Jan 22 2011, 08:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1826294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><img src="http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/2696/ns2mapiconscopy.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As for the power nodes, they did not ask for them in the brief.
@ Runteh, shape and contrasting bright/dark patterns sort of what I',m going for the easy to recognize factor
I really wish we could put them all in game and test them out, have to wait for patch though (i asked). Reason being mocks do not look like the in-game version of the icons necessarily.
If you photoshop mock, this is about the look of the ingame current coloring do Hue/Saturation, colorize;
Hue/saturation/lightness
Green: 115, 70, -35~
Red: 0, 70, -35~
Orange: 30, 100, -35~ (have not done orange in game yet but for purpose of mock)
Also i mean you could change the in game color if you so choose. Alright peace lol
Supernorns are working the best at the moment in some respects, also some of yours are very nice xVisions.
What do you guys think of something more like this (quick rough draft).
<img src="http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7379/iconsdarker.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/6935/runtehiconsoutline.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
that would be great and cory said they might colorize automagically vents so it could be applied to shutdown areas as well (precalculated range of minimaps)
It's looking good, makes it pop out a bit more, definitely an improvement!
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is something i wish you had put in the guidelines before i started. i designed my scale to specification of the sample minimap pictures given...
*IF that's possible*
Also, it would be good to hear some dev feedback on these.
no, some of them do not fill the whole 32 because i thought they should be in scale with the other icons, so for instance, my grenade is only 8 pixels, so the detail is extremely low cuz it was in (relative) scale with everything else.
but it's cool, i think i'm going to take the icons i like and redo a bigger set with more detail.
<ul><li>Marine and Jetpack Marine should be filled with the same bright colour, the dark just disappears against the map itself so the Jetpack Marine looks just like two triangles. I think it will be distinguishable anyway.</li><li>Mature Whip should hold a larger ball rather than 2x2 white pixel-fill there is now.</li><li>Alien Commander icon should have an oval shape rather than completely round, I know it's supposed to look like an eye but I think it will come across more easy if it was shaped like one too.</li><li>Deployed ARC could have some white so we can see the barrel, to hint that the vehicle is in fact a weapon.</li><li>Heavy Marine arrow looks a bit plain, that it is slightly larger doesn't come across to me as "armoured". Could play around with the "dual-wielding" concept for that shape perhaps?</li></ul>
Beginning to look real good otherwise Runteh :)