<!--quoteo(post=1869316:date=Aug 16 2011, 12:18 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Align @ Aug 16 2011, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869316"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, in case you didn't know, the game is actually named "Dota 2". Due to legal issues, it's not just an abbreviation. Kind of funny.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh, that's quite awesome.
Quite interesting actually that they're allowed to build the game like that if they haven't got full legal access to the whole DotA thingy. You'd think there might be some intellectual property issues with copypasting the whole game structure from original.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Funny cause Notch/Mojang has some copyright troubles for "Scrolls", the title they're working on from Bethesda and the, claiming Scrolls is too similar to "The Elder Scrolls"
I've seen complaints about valve "stealing the name" to make money from it. But, weren't there like 3 (significant) devs for dota? And 2 of them are already making money from the concept, while icefrog is the only one still maintaining the original, for free?
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General opinion is that they commentated(?) the wrong game, all the others ended much faster and this was as expected because it was china vs china and china tends to farm a lot.
Watched a live cast on <a href="http://www.own3d.tv/game/Dota+2" target="_blank">own3d.tv</a>. Signed up for Beta.
Discovered today that the HoN guys made the <i>Savage</i> games. I did not know that. May be tempted by HoN's F2P format to bone up on my DotA while I wait for release.
Will likely buy and play this until the focus shifts solely to pointless <i>garb</i> and 'quirky' new game mechanics that completely ignore balance and usability. Like TF2, I'll enjoy the honeymoon period while it lasts. Hopefully the greater propensity for competitive play may keep the game away from the <b>hats brigade</b>.
The replays are up at their YT channel in glorious 1080p (sans commentary) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/dota2" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/dota2</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1869687:date=Aug 17 2011, 02:33 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Aug 17 2011, 02:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869687"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Watched a live cast on <a href="http://www.own3d.tv/game/Dota+2" target="_blank">own3d.tv</a>. Signed up for Beta.
Discovered today that the HoN guys made the <i>Savage</i> games. I did not know that. May be tempted by HoN's F2P format to bone up on my DotA while I wait for release.
Will likely buy and play this until the focus shifts solely to pointless <i>garb</i> and 'quirky' new game mechanics that completely ignore balance and usability. Like TF2, I'll enjoy the honeymoon period while it lasts. Hopefully the greater propensity for competitive play may keep the game away from the <b>hats brigade</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, yeah, S2 are the Savage people.
Also, I don't think there will be much time before all the "quirky" stuff shows up. I mean, it's from the looks of it like HoN a pure clone of DotA, but on a new engine. So, all those little things from before carry over exactly. Heck, the heroes have the exact same name and abilities as in DotA.
So, yeah. I don't know. It's definitely gonna do serious damage to HoN, but I don't know if people will flock to it like they have LoL.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2011
TB is at Cologne, why don't they set him up with a commentary booth. I know the man is busy with loads of things over there, but I guess he'd be interested in doing some commentaries... Also the Yogscast is there as well, they can diggy holes in DotA2 :P
<!--quoteo(post=1869828:date=Aug 18 2011, 11:40 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Aug 18 2011, 11:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TB is at Cologne, why don't they set him up with a commentary booth. I know the man is busy with loads of things over there, but I guess he'd be interested in doing some commentaries... Also the Yogscast is there as well, they can diggy holes in DotA2 :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because the commentators they have actually know something about Dota. The only competitive game Yogscast is fit to comment is spleef :P
I do love their videos though, they're GREAT entertainers.
Ok, to clarify, ya, actually both TB and Yogscast know something about Dota. I'm not super in love with the way valve is handling their commentary for this tourney, I can't even find the aliases of the English casters online anywhere (official anyways). Their sound system, the mics they are using and what not, are also terrible, way under what they should have in place for a 1.6 million dollar tournament.
That being said, their choice of casters is solid. These guys are both reasonably entertaining and they REALLY know their stuff. Know every hero, every ability for every hero, every item, they have good insight into strategy and tactics. TB could probably comment LoL or Dota, but I'm not sure he knows this game as well as the casters they currently have (and he would probably be a much higher paycheck).
What I would like, is them to be more transparent with who the commentators are. Day9, husky, HD, Artosis, these guys basically made SC2 big. If Dota2 can get some similar characters it will help solidify it's status as a top tier e-sport IMMENSELY. Valve should be very supportive of the commentary scene for Dota2 (and CS:GO when the time comes for that)
<!--quoteo(post=1869896:date=Aug 18 2011, 05:58 PM:name=Koruyo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koruyo @ Aug 18 2011, 05:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1869896"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dunno why, but after playing LoL for a year (with a few years dota before)...
I got bored watching the stream.
I dont understand why they didnt improve on the gameplay and just made a copycat version with nicer graphics...
On one hand everybody flames CoD how they just make the same game over and over again - but on the other hand thats what people really want.
DotA2 will get popular and mainstream - but not because its the "better" "more fun" "more tactical" game - because its dota.
Hope LoL and HoN wont die because of this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> LoL is very safe, I'm not sure about HoN though. The unfortunate thing is that Valve is basically trying to do the same thing as the HoN team with Dota2, and I think it's pretty sure to result in fairly direct competition with HoN, which probably won't turn out well, as so far, it looks like Valve is throwing more money at it, and doing it better. LoL has similarities but it is SO different from Dota, the differences is vast enough that most fans will either like both, or pick a side and stick with it. I don't think for too many people it will be the kind of thing where they won't play LoL any more because Dota2 is out, or likewise. LoL is a force to be reaconned with for reasons asside from competitive solidity.
The auto-camera (watch without commentators) is pretty good. Shame some matches are terribly boring to watch without someone to artificially liven it up... maybe some music would help.
For those of us not in the know, what ARE the big differences between Dota and LoL? Because a cursory inspection by someone who has never played either game much (me) couldn't find any glaring differences.
Personally I found the major difference to be character scaling. A number of heroes in Dota are only effective at certain points of the game, or in certain roles only. Abilities in LoL scale with certain atributes found on items so an early game nuke that ruins heroes in Dota might be easily dealable by the end game, whereas in LoL that nuke can be made to hurt like hell still at the end.
Every character in LoL can be given two activate abilities from a small pool that increases as your account levels. Your character has no real escape abilities? No problem! Take the blink skill or the faster move speed/no collision skill. You can change these every round during pre-start up. Speaking of pre-start up, you round starts in a lobby where your team chooses their characters. You can discuss what characters people want/need tactics etc, and change your mind at any point. You have a minute to do this I think. This doesn't exist in Dota.
There's no denying in LoL.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. These are probably the most controversial changes from Dota that people, like Marmite, either love or hate.
Dota players make the argument that these changes all refelect on LoL having vastly lower skill requirements. Think about how differently you'd choose a character if they were only strong during certain points of the game. Think about how you'd play the game. Heroes need to make maximum use of the time they're most effective. You wouldn't want someone with no escape abilities in a lane or infact an entire round with heroes who are adept at chasing. Dota players see this as a removal of different tactics and of any player choice having real impact on the game.
Lich in Dota is effective at denying due to a skill that kills his own side's creeps and he gains mana. He has a decent nuke with a slow component and his ultimate can mean he can solo groups of heroes in an ideal circumstances. By end game denying is pointless, people can have items that block spell effects and have enough health that his nuke and ultimate both can be ignored. This basically means he needs to make the most of the starting levels when he is strong. If he were converted to LoL, there is no denying, something which takes decent observation skills and reaction times, and his nuke and ultimate would always be relevant through the game due to scaling from items. He could also have a decent chance of escaping from any ambush due to taking an escape skill with his 2 common pool choices.
Playing the devil's advocate here, it sounds like LoL is the more fun game because you don't risk getting stuck with a hero that doesn't fit into the game and now have to sit around for half an hour waiting for the torture to end, unless you want to piss everyone off by just quitting the match.
<!--quoteo(post=1870202:date=Aug 20 2011, 08:57 AM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 20 2011, 08:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870202"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I hate to be argumentative, but from an outsider's perspective those sound like small differences, not big ones.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There are no gigantic differences, but the small differences amount to some very different game play that is more than enough to be the tipping point of preference. LoL also has the backend where you earn credits to buy new heros and upgrade your stats with ruins, and while it's not directly relevant to game play, it makes it a little easier for nubby players to get addicted to the game.
<!--quoteo(post=1870240:date=Aug 20 2011, 05:33 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lolfighter @ Aug 20 2011, 05:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1870240"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Playing the devil's advocate here, it sounds like LoL is the more fun game because you don't risk getting stuck with a hero that doesn't fit into the game and now have to sit around for half an hour waiting for the torture to end, unless you want to piss everyone off by just quitting the match.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Some people find the higher skill cap of Dota more 'fun', but for most people who just want a pick up and play game? Yeah, LoL beats Dota hands down for that. Don't get me wrong, you can easily have that situation in LoL where a match ends up one sided because someone on your team is feeding or not communicating or really doesn't know what they're doing with their hero, just that it's less likely to happen.
Comments
Heh, that's quite awesome.
Quite interesting actually that they're allowed to build the game like that if they haven't got full legal access to the whole DotA thingy. You'd think there might be some intellectual property issues with copypasting the whole game structure from original.
I've seen complaints about valve "stealing the name" to make money from it.
But, weren't there like 3 (significant) devs for dota? And 2 of them are already making money from the concept, while icefrog is the only one still maintaining the original, for free?
Sign up for <!--sizeo:7--><span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><i>BETA!</i><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Yikes, tournament streaming starts 1am for me
My opinion? I dunno lol
Discovered today that the HoN guys made the <i>Savage</i> games. I did not know that. May be tempted by HoN's F2P format to bone up on my DotA while I wait for release.
Will likely buy and play this until the focus shifts solely to pointless <i>garb</i> and 'quirky' new game mechanics that completely ignore balance and usability. Like TF2, I'll enjoy the honeymoon period while it lasts. Hopefully the greater propensity for competitive play may keep the game away from the <b>hats brigade</b>.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/dota2" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/user/dota2</a>
Discovered today that the HoN guys made the <i>Savage</i> games. I did not know that. May be tempted by HoN's F2P format to bone up on my DotA while I wait for release.
Will likely buy and play this until the focus shifts solely to pointless <i>garb</i> and 'quirky' new game mechanics that completely ignore balance and usability. Like TF2, I'll enjoy the honeymoon period while it lasts. Hopefully the greater propensity for competitive play may keep the game away from the <b>hats brigade</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, yeah, S2 are the Savage people.
Also, I don't think there will be much time before all the "quirky" stuff shows up. I mean, it's from the looks of it like HoN a pure clone of DotA, but on a new engine. So, all those little things from before carry over exactly. Heck, the heroes have the exact same name and abilities as in DotA.
So, yeah. I don't know. It's definitely gonna do serious damage to HoN, but I don't know if people will flock to it like they have LoL.
Some are up now, even the non english ones. Unfortunately they all sound like they're being played back on paper cup speakers
Because the commentators they have actually know something about Dota. The only competitive game Yogscast is fit to comment is spleef :P
I do love their videos though, they're GREAT entertainers.
YogsCast are indeed entertainers, hence I said they could diggy holes :P
[edit]
LoL gets a new game mode, interview/gameplay by TB. A bit ontopic offtopicness?
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5jkSaUaqeFU"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5jkSaUaqeFU" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkSaUaqeFU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkSaUaqeFU</a></div>
That being said, their choice of casters is solid. These guys are both reasonably entertaining and they REALLY know their stuff. Know every hero, every ability for every hero, every item, they have good insight into strategy and tactics. TB could probably comment LoL or Dota, but I'm not sure he knows this game as well as the casters they currently have (and he would probably be a much higher paycheck).
What I would like, is them to be more transparent with who the commentators are. Day9, husky, HD, Artosis, these guys basically made SC2 big. If Dota2 can get some similar characters it will help solidify it's status as a top tier e-sport IMMENSELY. Valve should be very supportive of the commentary scene for Dota2 (and CS:GO when the time comes for that)
I got bored watching the stream.
I dont understand why they didnt improve on the gameplay and just made a copycat version with nicer graphics...
On one hand everybody flames CoD how they just make the same game over and over again - but on the other hand thats what people really want.
DotA2 will get popular and mainstream - but not because its the "better" "more fun" "more tactical" game - because its dota.
Hope LoL and HoN wont die because of this.
I got bored watching the stream.
I dont understand why they didnt improve on the gameplay and just made a copycat version with nicer graphics...
On one hand everybody flames CoD how they just make the same game over and over again - but on the other hand thats what people really want.
DotA2 will get popular and mainstream - but not because its the "better" "more fun" "more tactical" game - because its dota.
Hope LoL and HoN wont die because of this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
LoL is very safe, I'm not sure about HoN though. The unfortunate thing is that Valve is basically trying to do the same thing as the HoN team with Dota2, and I think it's pretty sure to result in fairly direct competition with HoN, which probably won't turn out well, as so far, it looks like Valve is throwing more money at it, and doing it better. LoL has similarities but it is SO different from Dota, the differences is vast enough that most fans will either like both, or pick a side and stick with it. I don't think for too many people it will be the kind of thing where they won't play LoL any more because Dota2 is out, or likewise. LoL is a force to be reaconned with for reasons asside from competitive solidity.
Every character in LoL can be given two activate abilities from a small pool that increases as your account levels. Your character has no real escape abilities? No problem! Take the blink skill or the faster move speed/no collision skill. You can change these every round during pre-start up. Speaking of pre-start up, you round starts in a lobby where your team chooses their characters. You can discuss what characters people want/need tactics etc, and change your mind at any point. You have a minute to do this I think. This doesn't exist in Dota.
There's no denying in LoL.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head. These are probably the most controversial changes from Dota that people, like Marmite, either love or hate.
Lich in Dota is effective at denying due to a skill that kills his own side's creeps and he gains mana. He has a decent nuke with a slow component and his ultimate can mean he can solo groups of heroes in an ideal circumstances. By end game denying is pointless, people can have items that block spell effects and have enough health that his nuke and ultimate both can be ignored. This basically means he needs to make the most of the starting levels when he is strong. If he were converted to LoL, there is no denying, something which takes decent observation skills and reaction times, and his nuke and ultimate would always be relevant through the game due to scaling from items. He could also have a decent chance of escaping from any ambush due to taking an escape skill with his 2 common pool choices.
There are no gigantic differences, but the small differences amount to some very different game play that is more than enough to be the tipping point of preference. LoL also has the backend where you earn credits to buy new heros and upgrade your stats with ruins, and while it's not directly relevant to game play, it makes it a little easier for nubby players to get addicted to the game.
Some people find the higher skill cap of Dota more 'fun', but for most people who just want a pick up and play game? Yeah, LoL beats Dota hands down for that. Don't get me wrong, you can easily have that situation in LoL where a match ends up one sided because someone on your team is feeding or not communicating or really doesn't know what they're doing with their hero, just that it's less likely to happen.