pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Haha, I'll keep that in mind. A missile silo fits to the shape and altitude of the the room, but I'm not sure, if it's a good choice next to a Surface Access and an Atrium :D I thought maybe some kind of computer information whatever room or something else less dangerous and secretive.
Anyway, as promised an updated layout and a few shots from the Alien Spawn. Layout; I've painted (over) the vents and there are also a few kinda vents that go along above or through a room/route: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/Ggn0a.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I made these shots in the cinematic editor since my NS2 is still updating and infestation doesn't look well with so many different heights:
Catwalk leads to a unusable door and is just there to give spawning aliens a height advantage: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/4H4Bs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Skulks can walk between the glass and the outer platform, there are 1-2 vents down there aswell: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/rQVrj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Res node in the front, tech point up the stairs in front of that room, which is supposed to be a small bar. Not sure how much of the bar will be covered with infestation anyway: <img src="http://i.imgur.com/bZJ7z.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Do the beams you have overlapped in the last shot bleed with player idle animations? I tried this in the early stages and the prop bleed was less than desirable and i went with angled edges instead of curves.
None the less it is very epic and i don't use that word much.
Great looking architecture there- sure looks like it took some patience- which can be a useful virtue in mapping. I like big open areas that aren't too boxed shaped.
pSyk0mAn, Alien Start looks great! I also just looked through the thread and realised I missed your question earlier. The offer is absolutely there, it would be my pleasure. PM if you ever want it done! :)
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Thanks guys. Thanks NS2HD, I'll do that.
<!--quoteo(post=1842123:date=Apr 23 2011, 09:20 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Apr 23 2011, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my next map needs more rounded turns. top of the class as usual, psyko.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, round stuff makes up for the lack of other things and keeps it interesting, just like a shadow casting grid with a true spot-light above a scene :D
<!--quoteo(post=1842127:date=Apr 23 2011, 11:17 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Apr 23 2011, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do the beams you have overlapped in the last shot bleed with player idle animations? I tried this in the early stages and the prop bleed was less than desirable and i went with angled edges instead of curves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. Probably my english since I don't know what bleed means in that context and what beams you are refering to.
I think he means on your curved architecture, do player models go through it where the angles meet? So if a skulk sits at an angle on it, will the player essentially only see half a model while on the vertex of those two angles?
To clarify "bleed" meaning to see something through another object. When an alien life-form is in it's idle animations i causes slight camera shift (breathing) and i noticed it causes the props to move just ever so slightly enough to cause them to render into each other. when the animation breaths in you can see the overlapping props "flicker" into and out of each other. I can shoot a video of this if you still don't understand.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Ah alright. I'm not sure that is a priority right now :P Maybe it gets noticed during playtesting and I'll deal with it or UWE is going to optimize things related to that issue.
1. I use the "halo" model and a blue-ish on my lights that are in powered areas and Yellow-ish in areas not effected by the power grid. Vents are marked with a washed out orange/red. You could do many things to mark them, perhaps more cables on the floor or certain cinematic effects. I think the only real way to identify is for the player to learn by trial and error but the lighting is a good way to expedite the map learning.
2. Reverb really sets the area, I personally use it everywhere (rooms, halls, and vents). Haven't noted any bugs with them yet.
3. Not until the mobile siege is introduced.
4. Air Waypoints should go anywhere a skulk can fit through in my opinion. I noticed my paths work better if i do multiple paths through rooms where obstacles exist.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited May 2011
Thanks, that helps a lot.
1. Those halo-props might be a good indicator, but I thought maybe there is something offical like the red style rooms, when a power node is down. Maybe a differently looking, kinda damaged power node model would help to mark an area as unpowered despite proper lighting (I don't like the red lighting much :D) So hallways in general are expected to have power (no-name locations)? And marines are expected to build mobile power points at tech points/res points that dont have a power node or power? Edit: I'm sticking with a damaged power node model on the floor/wall and some ripped out wires clearly visible to everyone for now.
2. I don't want to spam my map with reverbs, yet, for simple gameplay tests. I guess there is some default reverb in action, when there isn't one in the map!?
Another thing: My alien start harvester dies since 176? Was there something changed about hive infestation range? Scale between hive and node (both selected) is 577wide x 76 height, which is by no means far away.
I am hoping they will implement triggers that players can disable or enable by welding as you could use the klaxon cinematic to define an un-powered area along with the emergency light cinematic and they would disable when power is restored. I have an un-powered area that i used light shining through a fan with the emergency light flash from center of area along with the cinematic of a spotlight flickering to define it as un-powered. ....Or add an un-built flag to the power point entity would also work as the damaged or broken power-point cinematic/model would clearly define it as un-powered.
The reverbs can be set very subtle and really ads to ambiance of an area, for instance, in a vent with different style of material where you may want the other team to here or think they heard something behind the wall.
I know when i was messing with some of the props that the infestation model (oval shaped) caused infestation to spread when loaded in game. I'm not sure if it supports like or if it's just a visual but it may be what your looking for to remedy that harvester issue.
EDIT: Not sure how to define hallways as un-powered other than what you had in mind with damaged props. I try to go a bit into the hallways from the rooms themselves with my locations then give the hallway a location of it's own. If the minimap would show what is powered and un-powered to the commander then all would be grand.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Just a little update: I'm basicly ready to playtest the map, but there is something crazy going on with the occlusion culling. Once I explore the map more and more there are areas, where I can see half the map. Walking into walls/ceilings adds up to that like one can see outside for a short moment. This gets even crazier, when I change the vertical position of my ready room and thus change the areas where many parts of the map can be seen. It seems the occlusion culling system is building large vis-blocks (or whatever its called) between the map areas (through the map areas?) probably because rock props and open ceilings kinda blur the lines between "inside" and void.
I'm going to try some flat, huge walls between the areas or I'll wait for the update with the improved occlusion culling.
Hey, these shots of Alien start look fantastic. A lot of really great work being done on this map.
As far as the occlusion culling problems, Max is actually working on the new way of doing that now, which should make make a big difference. It will use a low poly mesh to calculate what is visible or not, and so far in his tests its much more accurate then the current implementation. So, there most likely won;t be those areas of maps where tons of stuff that isn't visible is still being rendered.
It does mean that you will need to create that occlusion mesh for your entire map. Sgt. Barlow or Olmy can probably help you out with that, since they've done that for their maps already.
Comments
you just have to change the center geometry to look like the midpoint of a missile.
I thought maybe some kind of computer information whatever room or something else less dangerous and secretive.
Anyway, as promised an updated layout and a few shots from the Alien Spawn.
Layout; I've painted (over) the vents and there are also a few kinda vents that go along above or through a room/route:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/Ggn0a.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
I made these shots in the cinematic editor since my NS2 is still updating and infestation doesn't look well with so many different heights:
Catwalk leads to a unusable door and is just there to give spawning aliens a height advantage:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/4H4Bs.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Skulks can walk between the glass and the outer platform, there are 1-2 vents down there aswell:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/rQVrj.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Res node in the front, tech point up the stairs in front of that room, which is supposed to be a small bar.
Not sure how much of the bar will be covered with infestation anyway:
<img src="http://i.imgur.com/bZJ7z.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
thanks for sharing
None the less it is very epic and i don't use that word much.
Good job on it so far psyko cheers!
<!--quoteo(post=1842123:date=Apr 23 2011, 09:20 PM:name=Tig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tig @ Apr 23 2011, 09:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842123"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->my next map needs more rounded turns. top of the class as usual, psyko.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, round stuff makes up for the lack of other things and keeps it interesting, just like a shadow casting grid with a true spot-light above a scene :D
<!--quoteo(post=1842127:date=Apr 23 2011, 11:17 PM:name=SN.Wolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SN.Wolf @ Apr 23 2011, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1842127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Do the beams you have overlapped in the last shot bleed with player idle animations? I tried this in the early stages and the prop bleed was less than desirable and i went with angled edges instead of curves.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. Probably my english since I don't know what bleed means in that context and what beams you are refering to.
I think he means on your curved architecture, do player models go through it where the angles meet? So if a skulk sits at an angle on it, will the player essentially only see half a model while on the vertex of those two angles?
*I think*
I'm not sure that is a priority right now :P
Maybe it gets noticed during playtesting and I'll deal with it or UWE is going to optimize things related to that issue.
Not sure how fitting it is, but it sure looks pretty.
Yes, I hope so.
-Areas without power node: Yes/No? How to mark them?
Or put an invisible power node so it's always powered (hallways?)
-reverb entity necessary for bugfree sound or for sound effects in general?
-I assume ground waypoints are not needed yet?
-Air waypoints still in vents for drifters?
2. Reverb really sets the area, I personally use it everywhere (rooms, halls, and vents). Haven't noted any bugs with them yet.
3. Not until the mobile siege is introduced.
4. Air Waypoints should go anywhere a skulk can fit through in my opinion. I noticed my paths work better if i do multiple paths through rooms where obstacles exist.
Hope that helps ya.
1. Those halo-props might be a good indicator, but I thought maybe there is something offical like the red style rooms, when a power node is down.
Maybe a differently looking, kinda damaged power node model would help to mark an area as unpowered despite proper lighting (I don't like the red lighting much :D)
So hallways in general are expected to have power (no-name locations)?
And marines are expected to build mobile power points at tech points/res points that dont have a power node or power?
Edit: I'm sticking with a damaged power node model on the floor/wall and some ripped out wires clearly visible to everyone for now.
2. I don't want to spam my map with reverbs, yet, for simple gameplay tests. I guess there is some default reverb in action, when there isn't one in the map!?
Another thing:
My alien start harvester dies since 176? Was there something changed about hive infestation range?
Scale between hive and node (both selected) is 577wide x 76 height, which is by no means far away.
The reverbs can be set very subtle and really ads to ambiance of an area, for instance, in a vent with different style of material where you may want the other team to here or think they heard something behind the wall.
I know when i was messing with some of the props that the infestation model (oval shaped) caused infestation to spread when loaded in game. I'm not sure if it supports like or if it's just a visual but it may be what your looking for to remedy that harvester issue.
EDIT: Not sure how to define hallways as un-powered other than what you had in mind with damaged props. I try to go a bit into the hallways from the rooms themselves with my locations then give the hallway a location of it's own. If the minimap would show what is powered and un-powered to the commander then all would be grand.
I'm basicly ready to playtest the map, but there is something crazy going on with the occlusion culling.
Once I explore the map more and more there are areas, where I can see half the map.
Walking into walls/ceilings adds up to that like one can see outside for a short moment.
This gets even crazier, when I change the vertical position of my ready room and thus change the areas where many parts of the map can be seen.
It seems the occlusion culling system is building large vis-blocks (or whatever its called) between the map areas (through the map areas?) probably because rock props and open ceilings kinda blur the lines between "inside" and void.
I'm going to try some flat, huge walls between the areas or I'll wait for the update with the improved occlusion culling.
As far as the occlusion culling problems, Max is actually working on the new way of doing that now, which should make make a big difference. It will use a low poly mesh to calculate what is visible or not, and so far in his tests its much more accurate then the current implementation. So, there most likely won;t be those areas of maps where tons of stuff that isn't visible is still being rendered.
It does mean that you will need to create that occlusion mesh for your entire map. Sgt. Barlow or Olmy can probably help you out with that, since they've done that for their maps already.
--Cory
1 Bottle of jack...check
1 carton of smokes.....check
1 upbeat techno album...check
1 truck load of tissues....check'
Let the good time roll!!
Thanks, a lot. I'm glad to hear that the new occlusion culling might fix these issues.
Can't wait to playtest the map!
@dux:
I've great experience with tissues.
Is the OcclusionGeometry group in tram and its included geometry good enough to explain how it is done?
Looking forward to seeing this map become official ;)