Now that it was mentioned, I'm inclined to agree about the "skulk friendlyness" of the area. The ceiling looks fairly complex and unfriendly to movement. But it might be the angle of the shot coupled with the shadows of normal maps?
Also, in the last shot, inside of the Tech Spot, there is a lamp on the farthest wall. The lamp model itself is very long, whereas you've only used one light entity, meaning it looks weird. Perhaps using 3-4 light entities with a much smaller radius to do the model justice?
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited August 2010
I'm not sure about skulk navigation so far, but I can still change a few spots, when it doesn't work out.
And yes, good catch with the long light. I'll try some more.
Edit: Here another POV: <img src="http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3051/ns48.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> Marines need to move up that ramp, aliens can come from multiple sides, that thing in the middle and the pillars are thick enough for skulks to hide aswell. I can make it more or less alien friendly after playtesting.
lol :D looking forward to seeing this map around. Might worth waiting for the tool they said they might include to strip out the code the editor needs from the level files but the game doesn't to make it a little harder for rippers. That said maybe your a fan of openness in general in which case I salute you. I don't think anyone could take your stuff and pass it off as anyone elses anyhow!
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
I think people can already rip off all the ideas shown in the screenshots, if they want to.
I'm more concerned about someone loading the map into spark in order to make it into a siege map or port it for another mod I don't like. Welding all the vertices in the released level file could already make it more difficult though :D
But I don't know, you can also consider it as a compliment and stop caring, if your map is rip-worthy.
I'm curious what's stopping other mappers from releasing though. Some maps seem to be finished layout-wise, some already have sounds and particle fx. Is it just the current state of the alpha or is everyone waiting for someone to start? :D
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
I think only ID and Valve engines use a compiled closed source map file. Other games in all kinds of genres are open-source mostly. It is handy to have to keep the source files safe (unlike some ns maps that had to be remade from scratch based on a decompiled version). But it does not stop blatant ripoffs, is this bad? I dunno, we've never really had to deal with this in Valve and ID world <img src="http://members.home.nl/m.borgman/ns-forum/smileys/biggrin.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /> We're scared of the unknown (human nature)
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Small update: The comment about too long hallways kept nagging on me, so I increased the size of Flight Control, the closest node for Marines, and was able to shorten the hallways leading to Heliport and Crossroads by around 320 units. <img src="http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8051/overviewc.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
From Flight Control to Heliport: <img src="http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4958/ns49.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
VonDoomKnee deep in the latencyJoin Date: 2009-10-08Member: 68989Members, Reinforced - Shadow
edited September 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1779436:date=Jul 16 2010, 07:30 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Jul 16 2010, 07:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1779436"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Finally started with my 3rd tech point, the middle one, and I think I'm going for "crossroads". It's a little uncreative regarding the purpose of locations, but it fits and I like the ambiguity considering its strategic location. WIP-Shot (not much yet): <img src="http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8686/ns34.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those columns and arcs looks brilliant! Are the columns prefabs or detailed geometry? I cant remember seeing them in the prefab library : /
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited September 2010
Thanks VonDoom.
The columns use a mix of the 3 refinery_wallmods_13 pillars (last 3, when you type "pillar" in the prop-browser). I scaled them, put the same 4-pillar-segment on top and seperated them with a textured cylinder-"brush". They stand on the end of that long, kinda ^-^ -shaped brush to get a better transition to the floor.
The arcs consist of two refinery_arch1 props and a smooth, complex brush.
I think the following shots of this tech room on that page show it a bit better.
I also hope you consider this more of an inspiration than an explanation to rebuild them :)
McGlaspiewww.team156.comJoin Date: 2010-07-26Member: 73044Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Onos, WC 2013 - Gold, Subnautica Playtester
<!--quoteo(post=1798127:date=Sep 10 2010, 05:46 AM:name=NS2HD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NS2HD @ Sep 10 2010, 05:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1798127"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm in awe of how professional this map is looking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'll second that opinion. Just a thought, this would be a great map to show off what can be done with the Editor, for some user-created content section of the NS2HD YouTube channel.
no disrespect to UWE, but your map has a kind of depth which is completely missing in the bundled maps at the moment. It's like each room is a unique environment that fully exploits the lighting and graphics in a different way, and overall is also a needed change from the boxiness and excessively compact size of the UWE maps (which imo don't exhibit the engine/assets well or lend themselves to being good combat environments atm). Really liking this, if all NS2 maps are of this quality it's gonna be a seriously kickass game
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited November 2010
<!--quoteo(post=1804686:date=Nov 6 2010, 08:32 AM:name=gotmuff)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (gotmuff @ Nov 6 2010, 08:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1804686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->no disrespect to UWE, but your map has a kind of depth which is completely missing in the bundled maps at the moment. It's like each room is a unique environment that fully exploits the lighting and graphics in a different way, and overall is also a needed change from the boxiness and excessively compact size of the UWE maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks, but you have to consider that I'm a depth-first mapper doing it for fun and not being bound to the professional, in the long run more efficent way of breath-first mapping (which explains the boxiness to some extend). Check this thread for more info/discussion: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111372" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=111372</a>
I appreciate the enthusiasm and I'm glad that ppl like my work, but I'm sure you'll change your opinion once UWE shows more of their wip maps (for instance, check out that nice location in the flamethrower reveal video, which is part of a map that hasn't been presented yet, afaik). :)
@jstoia: Not everything is aligned properly. Especially with those curves there are segments that overlap or stick into eachother. For example, these crossbeams and arches on top stick into the inner cylinder shape and into the curved, outer wall aswell. Then you use lighting to hide ugly transitions or less smooth parts and to accent good looking parts.
These images are indeed epic, I know its an utter ball ache to align textures up, when it comes to big curves it gets ugly, its even hard to get a T-Junction to blend at the apex. In all, excellent job in creating what is a none uniform unique look, i don't mean that in a bad way but its good cause one side of an area is miles different from the other, its hard to do as many usualy stick with symetry most of the time. Its deffo refreshing to see curves rather than cubes wich is what makes this look so attractive even though its let down by having to force stright textures against curved edges.
I do have an actual problem though with the first image of your 2 latest additions, It actually does cause me some eye strain wich i find unusual because i have never experienced that before, I have seen your other shots but I do not know why that perticular one does that to me.
*Atfer comparing it seems that there are too many too bright white sources against overall darker objects, i would reduce the number of light fittings and visible light sources and gently illuminate with omnis replacing some of the strong direct light sources with radiance so there is some spacing there, This will help with performace too if there is less shadow casting spots.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
Thanks, Barlow. I actually agree with you on the number of lights. I've already had a feeling that it might be too many lights, but you nailed it down nicely with your description. I'll see where I can remove a light or change one of those black crossbeam props to its alternate version without lights.
Cool man. There was a similar discussion with Tram on some area remakes and the number of actual light props, similar thing was done in the end, they where reduced in number and extra anomynous omni sources placed instead, Not all light has to look like its coming from a prop because as you already know their is no light bounce, This is what Cory likes us to do and it does look admittadly much better.
After i wrote that post I went to get some grub but as i passed through my dark landing I had bits of your level burnt into my eyes for a while from looking at that image to loong trying to decifer why it made my eyes go goosed :)
AngeluszHarmonic entropistJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18072Members, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
Wow. This is the first I've seen of your map project. I intend to start work on a map myself in some time and I hope that at some point I'll be as good at it as you are. The geometry is really fresh while still befitting the NS theme - you've created a really good atmosphere.
As for some critique, I feel that at some points there's a bit 'too much' to look at. SgtBarlow already covered that for one screenshot with the lights, but in some other rooms as well, there's so much geometry it can get a tad confusing.
Ofcourse, this is hard to determine just by looking at screenshots as opposed to seeing it ingame, but it's a feel I'm getting.
Worth mentioning is your 'outside' part, I love its looks!
Comments
..and impressive.
Sexy curves.
but imho your hallways are too long.. all of them
this doesn't match the "standard" described in the pfd "mapping guidelines" and like it's show on the "tram" map :/
Also, in the last shot, inside of the Tech Spot, there is a lamp on the farthest wall. The lamp model itself is very long, whereas you've only used one light entity, meaning it looks weird. Perhaps using 3-4 light entities with a much smaller radius to do the model justice?
And yes, good catch with the long light. I'll try some more.
Edit: Here another POV:
<img src="http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3051/ns48.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Marines need to move up that ramp, aliens can come from multiple sides, that thing in the middle and the pillars are thick enough for skulks to hide aswell.
I can make it more or less alien friendly after playtesting.
simply amazing
also - i don't think it looks any less skulk unfriendly than any NS1 map
And no, it's not xmas morning and it probably won't take that long to get the map ready to playtest.
First playtest around Fall 2010
..oh yes, I did :D
I'm more concerned about someone loading the map into spark in order to make it into a siege map or port it for another mod I don't like. Welding all the vertices in the released level file could already make it more difficult though :D
But I don't know, you can also consider it as a compliment and stop caring, if your map is rip-worthy.
I'm curious what's stopping other mappers from releasing though.
Some maps seem to be finished layout-wise, some already have sounds and particle fx.
Is it just the current state of the alpha or is everyone waiting for someone to start? :D
The comment about too long hallways kept nagging on me, so I increased the size of Flight Control, the closest node for Marines, and was able to shorten the hallways leading to Heliport and Crossroads by around 320 units.
<img src="http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/8051/overviewc.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
From Flight Control to Heliport:
<img src="http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4958/ns49.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Flight Control:
<img src="http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/9122/ns50.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
It's a little uncreative regarding the purpose of locations, but it fits and I like the ambiguity considering its strategic location.
WIP-Shot (not much yet):
<img src="http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/8686/ns34.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those columns and arcs looks brilliant! Are the columns prefabs or detailed geometry? I cant remember seeing them in the prefab library : /
The columns use a mix of the 3 refinery_wallmods_13 pillars (last 3, when you type "pillar" in the prop-browser).
I scaled them, put the same 4-pillar-segment on top and seperated them with a textured cylinder-"brush".
They stand on the end of that long, kinda ^-^ -shaped brush to get a better transition to the floor.
The arcs consist of two refinery_arch1 props and a smooth, complex brush.
I think the following shots of this tech room on that page show it a bit better.
I also hope you consider this more of an inspiration than an explanation to rebuild them :)
I'll second that opinion. Just a thought, this would be a great map to show off what can be done with the Editor, for some user-created content section of the NS2HD YouTube channel.
No pressure pSyk0mAn =P
<img src="http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6638/ns51.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://img574.imageshack.us/img574/5938/ns52.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
That is all.
Thanks, but you have to consider that I'm a depth-first mapper doing it for fun and not being bound to the professional, in the long run more efficent way of breath-first mapping (which explains the boxiness to some extend).
Check this thread for more info/discussion:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111372" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=111372</a>
I appreciate the enthusiasm and I'm glad that ppl like my work, but I'm sure you'll change your opinion once UWE shows more of their wip maps (for instance, check out that nice location in the flamethrower reveal video, which is part of a map that hasn't been presented yet, afaik). :)
@jstoia: Not everything is aligned properly. Especially with those curves there are segments that overlap or stick into eachother. For example, these crossbeams and arches on top stick into the inner cylinder shape and into the curved, outer wall aswell.
Then you use lighting to hide ugly transitions or less smooth parts and to accent good looking parts.
Its deffo refreshing to see curves rather than cubes wich is what makes this look so attractive even though its let down by having to force stright textures against curved edges.
I do have an actual problem though with the first image of your 2 latest additions, It actually does cause me some eye strain wich i find unusual because i have never experienced that before, I have seen your other shots but I do not know why that perticular one does that to me.
*Atfer comparing it seems that there are too many too bright white sources against overall darker objects, i would reduce the number of light fittings and visible light sources and gently illuminate with omnis replacing some of the strong direct light sources with radiance so there is some spacing there, This will help with performace too if there is less shadow casting spots.
I actually agree with you on the number of lights. I've already had a feeling that it might be too many lights, but you nailed it down nicely with your description.
I'll see where I can remove a light or change one of those black crossbeam props to its alternate version without lights.
There was a similar discussion with Tram on some area remakes and the number of actual light props, similar thing was done in the end, they where reduced in number and extra anomynous omni sources placed instead, Not all light has to look like its coming from a prop because as you already know their is no light bounce, This is what Cory likes us to do and it does look admittadly much better.
After i wrote that post I went to get some grub but as i passed through my dark landing I had bits of your level burnt into my eyes for a while from looking at that image to loong trying to decifer why it made my eyes go goosed :)
As for some critique, I feel that at some points there's a bit 'too much' to look at. SgtBarlow already covered that for one screenshot with the lights, but in some other rooms as well, there's so much geometry it can get a tad confusing.
Ofcourse, this is hard to determine just by looking at screenshots as opposed to seeing it ingame, but it's a feel I'm getting.
Worth mentioning is your 'outside' part, I love its looks!