Street Fighter 4
puzl
The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
The Old Firm Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Are you enjoying it?</div>I'm really enjoying the game. I picked it up on Friday but had to head to my parents for the weekend so didn't really get to put in much time. I played for a couple of hours last night when I got home and by the time I was finished I was starting to get the hang of things. Sagat was tough to beat on medium and I totally failed against Seth so I dropped it back to easy and managed to do it. I'll stick on Easy until I get the hang of things again.
I'm most impressed with the way you can chain combos, especially with the ex moves and the focus cancel. Some of the new characters are insane though. Anyone know how to handle rufus well? I find him infuriating to fight. Able was just as bad but I'm starting to learn to keep him at a distance with hadoken and be ready to light shoruken if he comes in high. The hurricane kick is most impressive though.
So far I'm more impressed with the game than I expected to be. It'll take a while to get a feel for balance but if they've got it right then this has potential to be the best SF game yet.
I'm most impressed with the way you can chain combos, especially with the ex moves and the focus cancel. Some of the new characters are insane though. Anyone know how to handle rufus well? I find him infuriating to fight. Able was just as bad but I'm starting to learn to keep him at a distance with hadoken and be ready to light shoruken if he comes in high. The hurricane kick is most impressive though.
So far I'm more impressed with the game than I expected to be. It'll take a while to get a feel for balance but if they've got it right then this has potential to be the best SF game yet.
Comments
Single player - <b><i>AWESOME.</b></i> The difficulty is just right (I can finish Medium, but not without continues) and the characters all seem interesting, although I'm not convinced they're all equally viable. I'm really wanting to learn Fei-Long, as my character of choice.
Multi player - Oh God, it burns. I don't know which infuriates me more, the fact that EVERY scrub little s**t on the planet is playing Ken, Sagat, or occasionally Akuma, or the fact their endless Hadoken, Shoryuken spam <i>works</i>. I think it's partially that I'm not good enough yet (Example, I wish there was a way like SFIII for a non-fireball character to advance through fireballs without jumping through a Parry) and partially because it's just SO spammy that it works. They all play the exact same defensive game, with the occasional 3 hit combo of Jump HP, Low MK, Shoryuken. How I hate them.
Perhaps this will pass in time or with greater skills, but I'm failing to see how I can develop them against this at present.
That sounds very negative, but I have to stress, I'm loving the game itself. The Challenge Mode was an excellent addition, although I can't figure out the timings on a lot of combos so I can't finish them (is there a way to preview it like Tekken? I didn't see one.)
I'm seriously considering a Madcatz or Hori stick right now, but as there's been little to no UK stock, the prices on them are astronomical (The Limited Tournament Edition one is going for as much as £250!)
I haven't played online yet, wanted to warm up first.
The x-box's d-pad is utter gash though, really make it difficult to pull off dragon punches et al (z movements basically) reliably.
Shockie - Focus, absorb the hit, dash cancel, repeat until your in range. Thats about all I can think of.
Perhaps this will pass in time or with greater skills, but I'm failing to see how I can develop them against this at present.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know this is gonna sound like smack talk, but if you can't beat a simple combination like that, it's because you're not good enough yet. If you stick with it, maybe try to figure out how the more experienced players deal with stuff like that, I guarantee that you will soon, in sequence,<ul><li>laugh at</li><li>toy with</li><li>devastate</li></ul>such opponents.
I agree lolf, so I don't mind. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> I think it's lack of experience thus far, but it does seem to be more devastating / more difficult to deal with now there's no Parry/Cancellation (rather than Counter) system.
On the D-Pad situation, I find certain moves much more difficult (Ultra Combos from the P2 position seem to be a particular nightmare, because your fingers are moving away from the left Shoulders) but I can't think of a better layout, in all honesty.
The 360 analogue stick works surprisingly well but I've not had to worry about them as I managed to get two Madcatz Fighting pads :D
They're fabby and do the job admirably.
So far I've beat most players a heckload more than they do me though the rare exceptions who play a lot have won more against me in some close matches. Sadly they've been one off matches so I can't find out if they could keep up the challenge... I'll have to hunt one or two of them down online :o
I quite like how it's more accessible to the newcomer but they've still left out some things that the average player is unlikely to discover. For example, Rufus's spin attack goes through fireballs, shoryuken's can be done by simply hitting DF (numpad 3) twice (so you can D, DF, D, DF instead of F, D, DF- effectively letting you produce a shoryuken without having to stand).
Also enjoy discovering how focus attacks change the game. Previously naff attacks like Chunner's lightning legs and to a lesser extent Honda's hundred hand slap are uber useful as they can break focus so easily. Ken shoryuken spammers are a ###### though as they multi hit, but it's pretty easy to bait them then throw up your own anti-air.
I am utterly hideous at the game though. I can finish medium difficulty with no continues but my "main" is Sagat who is regarded as being the best player (though I think Rufus is the easiest character to get).
For the life of me I can NEVER beat Akuma's online. Playing as Sagat I can't get into a fireball contest- Akuma's FB's are multi hit so cancel out my tiger shot and still get through to me. The only way I can cancel out his fireball is by EX'ing my tigers but that's a waste. Get close to Akuma and he'll either heavy shoryuken or if he has space jump back and air hadoken- it's a guessing game that favours Akuma. So annoying but there is nothing you can do against the air hadoken- a dash isn't far enough, the trajectory means you can't jump it so the only choice (as Sagat) is to block and take chip damage.
One thing that surely needs toning down is revenge attacks. Countless times I've had my ass kicked down to 10% life but all I have to do is 2x quarter circle forwards then press a button on my stick that's bound to 3 punches. Gives me a guaranteed easy to pull off ultra combo that does 50% damage. Too cheap. BUT NOT AS CHEAP AS F***ING AKUMA.
Super game, I wish I could understand the intricate parts of the game like the competitive players do- I'd love it so much more.
Any Euros with a 360 wanna play I'm "JPE 07".
Oh and Jap voices > American voices (except for Claw and Fuerte).
What happened to your PS3? You haven't logged in for ages.
Oh, I don't know whether it's a bug, or I don't know how to deal with it, but sometimes AI Abel seems to go into an infinite hit loop, where he uses his Throw special, and because it lands very close and has no chance to Technical off it, jumps next to you and then does it again as you stand up. Over.... and over.... and over....
I've tried everything I can think of, but because it's a Throw you can't Counter, because it's a Special it can't be Throw Guarded, I'm a little lost.
Seth can also pull the same trick when he teleports and throws, but doesn't seem to want to mostly.
As for the infinite throw loop- I haven't seen that, but a reversal (which character do you play Shock?) should counter it. Again, the timings are super lenient so it's easy to pull off and it helps even more if you do the piano input where you roll your finger across all punch/kick keys (pressing a button and releasing it count as seperate actions, so sliding across 3 buttons = 6 inputs). Might be tricky if you don't have a stick though.
Sirlin (SSF2THDR producer and competitive player) made some nice tutorials for SF2 <a href="http://www.sirlin.net/blog/2006/11/15/street-fighter-tutorial-videos.html" target="_blank">here</a>. Most of it carries over to SF4.
And every SF thread needs a link to the <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS7hkwbKmBM" target="_blank">greatest competitive video gaming moment ever.</a>
Oh, I don't know whether it's a bug, or I don't know how to deal with it, but sometimes AI Abel seems to go into an infinite hit loop, where he uses his Throw special, and because it lands very close and has no chance to Technical off it, jumps next to you and then does it again as you stand up. Over.... and over.... and over....
I've tried everything I can think of, but because it's a Throw you can't Counter, because it's a Special it can't be Throw Guarded, I'm a little lost.
Seth can also pull the same trick when he teleports and throws, but doesn't seem to want to mostly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im thinking of picking this game up today for ps3, but shock u still have not accepted my invite. (atleast i dont think)
Overall, unimpressed, third strike for life
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how did I know that link was going to be the fully parry?
The nice part is how he jumps up, down parrys the last kick fierce crouching medium cancel into medium upper --> tetsu
The best part is listening to the crowd
[/edit]
Edit: I just re-read this. It sounds very sexual but I'm just gonna edit and say I know it sounds sexual, but I'm gonna leave it cause thats how I roll.
I can't imagine playing this without a joystick personally.
I can't imagine playing this without a joystick personally.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Joystick already on order. You thinking of caving in & joining us console hordes, Flay? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Which one did you order Shockwave? I got myself this <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Real-Arcade-Pro-EX/dp/B001GDONZS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1235673380&sr=8-3" target="_blank">one</a>. It's really sturdy and feels nice.
Hey Matt,
I want for the cheaper Hori Fighting Stick 3, I fancied a HRAP (they've had rave reviews) but they're just a bit pricy for what I am prepared to pay for a joystick. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> Save your sympathy though for people who bought the Madcatz sticks, apparently there's a loose metal washer scraping the PCB to death, and to top it off, as Madcatz are offering to take them back & repair them, many of the retailers are refusing to offer exchanges/refunds.
Addendum: Has anyone EVER had a fight with a 'Green' bar for latency? The best I've ever had is Yellow, and most are red or flashing to indicate poor connection, and in general it's so laggy that it's <i>immensely</i> frustrated to eat a 5-6 hit combo that you blocked easily, but didn't respond in time.
I have yet to beat it on medium. I've got seth down to less than 10% plenty of times ( when 1-1 ).
I have yet to beat it on medium. I've got seth down to less than 10% plenty of times ( when 1-1 ).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same here puzl, was hard enough beating him in round 1 >_>
After some extensive play against one of the better players I know (he adapts to any and all fighting games with alarming speed and has great move execution) I'm starting to see that the Capcom Cammy Hate is still alive and well ¬.¬
She has no counters for crouching block. None. If you sit in the corner and crouch block my only options are:
- Dash up and throw you
- Take to the air and use a normal (Fierce Kick usually) to smack you coming down (which sets me up for being dragon punched/flash kicked)
- Baiting (trying to goad you into doing a move so I can either beat it with priority or block it and punish you while you're open).
If you're crouched and I attempt a hooligan combo (which USED to grab crouched players before Street Fighter 4) then not only is it fairly easy to see coming with low priority so you can just punch/kick me out of it but she just slides off you rather than getting the frankensteiner throw :s
Making her inability to penetrate crouch block worse is that almost all her moves are punishable on block by a skilled player unless I make PRECISION use of spacing ( even then, you potentially could dash in and throw or reach out with a long poke if the character has one which will be more damage than the chip you take from blocking my specials).
Incase you were wondering about this 'Cammy hate' I was talking about I guess I better explain; in the original Super Street Fighter II when she first appeared she was considered one of the lowest tier characters in the game. In most other games since she's never been high tier (with the exception of one where they messed up her priority something daft which is the one and only time she's really ranked up there). In almost all promotional materials which involve her battling to a finish she always loses (look for any officially released vid from Capcom featuring Cammy in which the fight finishes. She always loses... the one of Sirlin demonstrating Cammy's moves doesn't count as the other player wasn't fighting back :p ) and even in the special Street Fighter 4 film her only purpose in combat seems to be getting her ass kicked so badly they have to call for emergency services. Groovy :/
All complaints aside I'm still winning a lot more than I lose against the majority. I suspect as I get more battle points and whatnot I'll start finding more dangerous people who know what they're doing and with the problems in her fighting repetoire my uber fighting friend has shown me I'm a bit worried. Mind-games have always been my strongest point in the fighting game genre and I have almost eternal patience when it comes to most head-to-head situations but I dislike having no approach options whatsoever if my opponent decides to go fully defensive :s
Interestingly- on XBL in Europe I've yet to play someone who isn't Ken or Akuma. 2 characters out of- what- 20? That's laughably bad.
I think most users open up the moves panel, see zangiefs 360's or Cammy's downright bizarre tilted half-circle for hooligan and just say "heck to that!".
Ironically, most of these were simplified and changed in HD Remix by Sirlin so that:
a) They were easier to execute. Suddenly there were a lot more fei long and cammy players because people could do their moves in the heat of combat... quarter circles are always easier than tilted half circles, especially as fluffing the titled half makes you jump into the enemies attacks which is never fun :o
b) They didn't overlap (always annoying when two moves share enough of a movement to do one when you mean the other like dragon punch and fireball in SF4; try doing a fireball while walking forward and most of the time it comes out as a dragon punch. There's a whole bunch of threads by Bison players complaining about accidentally doing his teleport while trying to do his ultra and some of them are top-level tournament players :p ).
What happened? Capcom ignore it and now we have most of the old inputs back again (though oddly most of the 'proper' characters who had titled half circles like Sagat and Akuma had theirs simplified while Cammy and Fei Long are left with their horrible movement intact).
I agree though, I don't like how tiered Street Fighter can be; in most fighting games all characters have the base moves needed to play the basic paper/rock/scissors game yet here in SF land we have characters without overhead attacks (hits people who are crouching without you having to jump, exposing yourself to anti-air or attempting a throw which can be easily nullified, or 'teched' as it's known, in this particular situation) and some even missing reversals (a move that you can do while getting up after being knocked down that always wins on priority... they keep the wake-up game interesting and you really feel it when you don't have one. Cammy luckily does but El Fuerte and a few others don't). They were nice enough to give most chars armour breaks for use against Focussed attacks but some of them take almost as long as a fully charged Focus Attack to actually execute which renders them a bit pointless for the task :/
For the record most of my online matches are against Ken, Akuma and Sagat (who is supposedly so good he's in his own 'god tier' above the other characters which, sadly, is nothing new :p ). I've had one or two odd ones against Gouken, Vega, Bison and Another Cammy player (just the one and they swore lots when I beat them around the arena despite them having better combos :3 ).
I get a much better mix up offline but I'm guessing people are more experimental when their wins/losses aren't tracked (I know about 6 Blanka players... dear heck how I've learned to hate fighting Blanka :p ). Offline I've got to fight Blanka, Guile, Dhalsim, Zangief, Bison and El Fuerte fairly regularly which is a nice change though Guile is an impenetrable fortress at the best of times :3