I think important to add- despite the tiers a good player will still beat a bad player. A good Claw in SF4 will rock my Sagat any day of the week <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I got around to unlocking Sakura today and she's not as bad as I thought she'd be. Sure, her fireball is rubbish (not as bad as Dan's weedy puff of air though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ) but her shoryuken is- dare I say- as good as Ken's. Can't remember off the top of my head if it does knockdown but the horizontal range is impressive.
Sakura's fireball is kinda interesting actually, if you fire one with weak punch it travels the full distance instead of puttering out and the fact you can charge it to reduce it's range but turn it into a larger, more damaging fireball makes for some fun mind games (you throw a few weaks out and when you know they're going to try and jump in you charge up a big one so it messes their timing and they land on it :3 )
Interestingly, her whirlwind kick is safe on block at all levels of power from what people have been saying and yeah, her dragon punch is excellent; partially for the ground it covers and also because it multi-hits rather nicely :3
The thing with tiers, even more so in SF4, is that while they're an indicator of the char's overall strength (or how many bad matchups they have) the gap isn't so big that it's a guarantee. Most people have been saying that they don't feel the top and bottom tiers of SF4 are as far apart as they have been in previous Capcom games.
That said, if you fight with a lower tier character it still means you're working for your wins more than you would if you'd taken a high tier :p
I'd love to say I play Cammy to give the rest of the world a chance ( ;D ) but for some reason I just click with her playstyle better than the other chars these days. Back in ye olde SFII I used to play Vega->Guile->Ryu. The futher up that 3 person chain I went the more serious I was and I never had to make a 4th beyond Ryu because none of my friends back then could beat me on him. They barely ever won against Guile as it was :p Back then Vega's izuna drop was listed as 'Barcelona' so I'd sing the the key line from queen song of the same name loudly at my friends when I pulled it off; while I like to tease most of the time, fighting games just make me take it to a whole new level... only if my opponent is of a decent level though. I don't harrass people who are still learning :p
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
This is why you all fail for your lack of PS3's. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Actually the PS3 pad is rather harsh on the thumb (I've not had any kind of 'thumb burn' on any other pad from extended fighter gaming) and those triggers are horrible... serviceable but unpleasant.
We played some some Soul Calibur 4 on a friends PS3 and I play that with a 'tekken claw' (where you don't hold the pad with your right hand but instead use your fingers to push multiple buttons, handy for pressing horizontal and kick together in SC which is awkward with your thumb alone) and every time I rested the pad on my leg those cruddy triggers would get pressed. I've never had that problem with the 360 pad (or the old PS2 ones or any other pad for that matter).
I much prefer the fightpads I ordered personally... having all 6 buttons on the face in their logical punch/kick rows just feels so much better.
It's kinda a problem really because I'm hopeless with the arcade sticks (the few shots I've got with the arcade or someone's fightstick have been rather embarrassing) and I went with a friend to one of the many lil SF4 tournaments that have been popping up all over the place and didn't even make it past the first round because they were using a PS3 (I kept pressing the wrong buttons and messing up my motions.... kinda odd considering how many hours of guilty gear I've played on the PS2 but I guess that was a while back especially since I got Guilty Gear Accent Core on the Wii... love those retro pads! :p ).
It sorta bothers me... my other fighting friends seem to adapt to new controls pretty quickly and I usually have to play catch-up but once I indoctrinate the new pad/stick/whatever to muscle memory I'm usually up there with them in fighting skill (well... overall anyway. My move execution is fairly flawed so I fluff a lot more than them but I balance it out with strategy, intuition and dodging skills that have driven some people to frustration :3 ).
I don't really like using shoulder buttons as main buttons in fighters these days though. I much prefer the guilty gear / SNK way of only having 4 main buttons instead of 6 and putting lesser used functions or multi-button shortcuts on the shoulders (e.g. duster, taunt and burst.) Besides... who the heck uses all 6 types on a single character? I mean move moves only actually use 3 of them at most (they just vary between strengths rather than punch and kick). Guilty Gear pulls and Capcom vs SNK series pulled it off fine with just 4.
Actually, while I'm on this topic; am I the only one who thinks that the fighting genre is a bit weird in this respect? In most other genres special controllers are merely for greater immersion. In fighting games it actually affects the game quite a lot however. It's also the only genre where obstructive controls are tolerated or even welcome... if you had to do a double quarter circle to reload your gun in an FPS or hold back for 2 seconds the press forward, back, forward to turn a block in tetris people would be in an uproar :o
I actually realised you could totally pull a smash bros for specials for Street fighter in the most part. For those not aware of smash bros's system all special moves are on one button. The move the button does depends on what direction you press at the same time. Using streetfighter as an example...
Special Button with no direction: Fireball Special Button and up: Dragon Punch Special Button and down: <add a new move here or just leave blank> Special button and left/right: Whirlwind Kick
For moves of varying strength you just hold the button (e.g. for lights you tap the move out, for fierce you hold).
I know they tried to make things a bit more approachable in Capcom vs SNK 2 EO but the 'easy operation' controls were mind boggling (they changed all the punch and kick buttons to weird things as well as having some supers on the C-stick) and they allowed you to choose EO or normal controls which meant most fighter players sneered at the EO and anyone who used them :p
Meh... I doubt it's going to change any time soon though. That said... I think I remember hearing that Tatsunoko vs Capcom had some kind of easy operation control system. Might have to give it a shot if it ever appears outside of Japan :3
I just got to try it for the first time and I have no idea how things are supposed to work. Some characters just beat the ###### out of me while others are average, on easy. Honda and viper just have some bull###### moves. Insta teleporting and crashing on my head? Electrofying the floor and then jumping next to me to perform a ultra as soon as I get up? No way in hell I can react fast enough to do a uppercut or whatever on this flimsy controller. Yes, I'm playing as ken. It seemed easy enough to start with.
Focus? Block aerial attacks? Parry? Counter? WHAT WHAT WHAAAT. Nothing is explained in the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
heh. Just for reference sake, Street Fighter 4 doesn't have aerial block to my knowledge; once you leave the ground you're wide open :3
I'm assuming you know how the rest work but for the heck of it...
Focus Attacks: hold medium punch and medium kick - This attack allows you to take a hit without flinching and if fully charged is completely unblockable. Though you do take damage from the hit, you'll eventually regenerate the lost health back unless you get hit before it finishes doing so at which point any recharging health (marked in green on your bar) is lost. The only exception to the 'ignore one hit' rule are 'armour breaker' attacks which smash through the focus with a single hit (all characters have at least one armour breaker move and multi-hit attacks do much the same job) Focus Attacks good for mix-up and you can let go to fire them off at any time you like which makes for excellent mind-games. Oh and grabs can go through focus attacks too so don't let them get too close if you're charging one :p
Dash Cancel: Double tap left or right while charging a focus attack - handy trick as it stops your focus attack and causes you to dash forward or back. This means you can start charging a focus to freak someone out then dash back when they try to armour break it then follow up while they're open or dash forward and do a move as they try to jump away.
FADC: Focus Attack Dash Cancel - At certain points during your moves while you're touching the ground you can press and hold medium punch and kick to stop the move in its tracks and go immediately into a focus attack. This manouver costs 2 super bar pieces... if you don't have them you can't do it. You can extend your moves or close an opening by using this, especially if you immediately dash out of the focus attack which is what a FADC is. Some of the crazier combos require FADC and if you learn how to use it you can really mess people up.
Parry: Doesn't exist in Street Fighter 4. That's a system that exists back in Street Fighter 3 and P-Groove on Capcom vs SNK 2. Don't worry about it :p
Here's some terms you might or might not have heard that might be useful though...
Reversals: Most characters have a move that has such high priority it will override the opponents move almost 100% of the time and can be buffered so that they go off the second you get up (before the opponent can do anything to you). These are referred to as reversals. For most characters this is the Dragon Punch.
Negative Edge: Street Fighter counts letting a button go as a command action for special moves. This means that you can essentially hold down punch and then later do a quarter circle forward and let go to do your fireball. This might just seem like a fun quirk at first until you realise some characters have moves that end in them pressing back (e.g. Cammy's spinning backfist is a half circle from forward to back). Now, normally when you 'fluff' a move like this you'll punch in the air and take a fireball in the face for it or whatnot, but if you fluff it when you're attempting to negative edge it doesn't punch and so you end up blocking instead. Handy huh? Try it yourself in practice for fun :3
Tick Throws: when you take a hit in street fighter games you enter 'recovery frames' or 'hit stun'. Even if you block you still get these (though block stun is shorter than hit stun). During stun frames you can't do any moves but you can't be grabbed either. Tick throwing is the dark art of hitting someone with a basic attack and then grabbing them The very second they finish their stun time. If timed right the other player will be unable to do any moves before you grab them. The only counter to this technique are reversal moves :p Funnily enough... this technique annoys the living hell out of people and I exploit it every chance I get in the older Street Fighters. I haven't trained myself to use it in SF4 yet but I suspect it still works the same XD
Not sure how handy those explanations are... if they confuse you more then oopsy, if not and they helped then consider me happy :3
Great info! There a few quirks I'll have to try out before I fully grasp the concept but overall very handy, thanks <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Blocks work like the following, no?:
Standing block works against high and mid attacks Crouching block works against mid and low attacks
I've managed to do a few accidental counters. It seems to be all about pressing the same attack button as the opponent just before it hits you, isn't it?
Highs are referred to as 'overhead' attacks. The vast majority are aerial (like kicking as you come down or bison's head stomp) though there are some rare attacks that can do this on the ground (Like Ryu's collarbone breaker or whatever it's called... forward and medium punch).
Ground-based overheads rarely chain well though so they're usually just single hits to discourage/punish excessive crouch-blocking when throwing is too risky.
Ooh! Forgot to mention...
Tech Throw: This is when someone attempts to throw you and you manage to press the throw buttons in the very small window right afterwards or at the same time. Teching a throw basically nullifies it so neither of you get hurt and you get forced apart; you can tell when a throw has been teched due to the little lightning type effect that goes off and the two chars push away from one another.
Cross-up: As you know, to block in street fighter you hold away from the enemy. Cross-ups are tactics or moves designed to abuse this by hitting you from the other side. In most cases it's little more than jumping in at a steep angle and using a move with a hitbox that hits them just behind their center line in the head. The enemy will be holding back which means that side is unprotected and they'll take the hit. Cammy's light punch used to be good for this but like I say... Capcom don't like Cammy so they messed it up :p
Move Cancelling: This is when you input a move as another is going off and instead of having the usual effect of the move completing then leaving you open or in some kind of cooldown it IMMEDIATELY executes the move you're cancelling into instead without delay. This is a basic tenant of comboing. Most of the time normal moves are used as 'links' to cancel through. On just about all characters medium punch or kick link quite happily with almost any of your specials The timing is kinda finicky so try and aim to finish the movement for whatever you move you want coinciding with when the current move hits (e.g. I press the punch for my fireball just as the medium punch I threw out hits).
Hope those help :3
If you're not doing it already the standard combo most people use at some point in their street fighter lives is jumping in and using fierce kick to hit the face/chest of your opponent. they'll still be stunned before you hit the ground so the minute you touch earth you sweep. If you're feeling more adventurous then there's much more damaging things you can do than sweep but I figure it's good to start easy and get in the habit :D
For Cammy a more advanced version would be: kick in the head, fierce punch -> cancel into cannon spike or cannon drill. For extra points the cannon drill can also be cancelled into the super on the first hit :p
Yikes, this is a lot to take in at once. I'll consider printing this page <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
I knew of 'Tech Throw' as it occurs quite often but it doesn't work against that frog humping french ######. All he do is throwing you around, whether you crouch, jump, block or tech throw. I hate him with my very soul, C.Viper was nothing compared to him. I beat him on easy but he plays ragdoll kungfu with me on stage 4or5 on EASIEST.
As for now, there is just one last thing I didn't ask before because Ken doesn't use it in his combos. How do you perform 'charged' as it says in moves list? Chun-li has 'left' 'charge' 'right' then 'left' and 'right' along with a kick to make her super/ultra combo but I can't figure it out. My best guess is focus attack chained in it but you've gone through that so, derp.
<!--quoteo(post=1702202:date=Mar 7 2009, 12:48 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Mar 7 2009, 12:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1702202"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The charge direction needs to be held for ~2 seconds.
So Guile's Sonic Boom is: hold away for two seconds, then tap forwards + punch.
There's a few ways to avoiding having to move backwards to charge- crouch+away works as does holding back whilst in the air or being hit/recovering.
I hate tech throws in SF4, light punch+kick takes too long to do. In HD remix it was so much easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I see. I just remembered you guys talking about it previously in thread too.
About that other thing, quick/air recovery, how is this accomplished?
You may tell me about now to go google some answers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1702209:date=Mar 7 2009, 02:06 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Mar 7 2009, 02:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1702209"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh, I see. I just remembered you guys talking about it previously in thread too.
About that other thing, quick/air recovery, how is this accomplished?
You may tell me about now to go google some answers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> A quick recovery, or technical, is accomplished by pressing the down button twice or any punch + kick simultaneously as you hit the ground. In earlier iterations of SF you could "soften" throws to make them do half damage, although I don't believe you can do that in SF4. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also, not to be a ######, but the manual to the game actually contains much information and answers to the questions you asked so far. You would be doing yourself a favor reading it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
I assume by french you're talking about Abel. Here's a tip when fighting against Zangief, Abel, E. Honda and Seth; Command throws ALWAYS beat normal throws and cannot be teched.
A command throw is a throw that you need to enter a command for (e.g. half circle back, punch). They are character specific and not all characters have one. Generally I throw people all over the place but if it's a command throw character I avoid staying in throwable positions at all costs because if they buffer a command throw it'll beat your normal one and it'll hurt, especially with the two dedicated grapplers; Zangief and Abel.
I'm out of luck it seems... my win streak is now at an end. I've been getting laggy matches all of a sudden and my play style is too reactive to deal with it :/ Even the matches that aren't laggy I've been fluffing match-winning moves at critical moments and losing. Not happy ¬.¬
I'd probably win more if I switched to a 'strong' character but I'm stubborn and refuuuuuuuuse!!! XD
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Gem - First, being blunt, Cammy is awesome now. Fine, she's not Sagat, but she's not a weak character, and can easily hold up to any of the Shotos in power level (Except maybe Ryu himself) He Focus attack is particularily strong, because she can easily combo from it into either her Ultra/Super, or a good old Cannon Strike if you're lacking.
Bizarrely, now I'm used to it Gouken's best AA move is plain old standing MK. It's fast, and got a very respectable range. Sadly, he's still got nothing priority-wise that'll take on SRK. Hell, even his Ultra is trounced by it, which is pretty bad.
I'm still struggling with Command throw characters, especially as some of them (Gief in particular) can pull it directly following a jumping attack block, or worse a faked jump-in, and seems to be almost unavoidable in that case.
Remember Shocksy, I did say earlier that despite there still being tiers it's not a massive difference in power, especially compared to previous capcom games. I'd recommend taking my Cammy rants with a pinch of salt :3
I definitely wouldn't class her as 'awesome' though. She could definitely use some tightening up, but it's not game-breaking, rather just annoying as it forces a smaller (but still effective) set of playstyles where a shoto would offer more flexibility.
Oh and SRK? For my turn to be blunt You can beat it with blocking :p For your ultra you can actually be rather nasty with it using your throw; if you do your ultra after you toss them up in the air it's pretty much a guaranteed hit :p
Command throw characters are rather nasty, especially for a throw fanatic like me but luckily Zangief, at least, doesn't have an air throw so you can always fluff them by being airborne. Turns into an interesting mind game against Abel thanks to his ground-to-air grab though XD
1. Do not attack at start, just block and move backwards, try to scare him by moving forwards between his projectiles if you feel brave (cannot be dodged unlike fireballs).
2. Stand and block, never sit or do anything unless he is directly in your face (might teleport behind you). If so, press grab as fast as you can to get lucky or push out technical.
3. Jump if you can time all the different speeded projectiles, if not, block or counter with own. He will always throw at least 3 at you when he is at a distance before he jumps.
4. Wait for it... quickly make a high kick/punch/AA move when he jumps towards you. This is about the only move he cant retaliate when hit.
5. Don't do anything else, just take his ultra/super and suck it up. Make a wish he doesn't use both.
6. Repeat until defeated and don't panic from the flashing lights, screaming scientists and loud alarms.
puzlThe Old FirmJoin Date: 2003-02-26Member: 14029Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->6. Repeat until defeated and don't panic from the flashing lights, screaming scientists and loud alarms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Funny thing is I did exactly that the first couple of times I fought him. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />:D
<!--quoteo(post=1702418:date=Mar 10 2009, 02:19 PM:name=Svenpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Svenpa @ Mar 10 2009, 02:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1702418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Beginners guide to beating Seth:
1. Do not attack at start, just block and move backwards, try to scare him by moving forwards between his projectiles if you feel brave (cannot be dodged unlike fireballs).
2. Stand and block, never sit or do anything unless he is directly in your face (might teleport behind you). If so, press grab as fast as you can to get lucky or push out technical.
3. Jump if you can time all the different speeded projectiles, if not, block or counter with own. He will always throw at least 3 at you when he is at a distance before he jumps.
4. Wait for it... quickly make a high kick/punch/AA move when he jumps towards you. This is about the only move he cant retaliate when hit.
5. Don't do anything else, just take his ultra/super and suck it up. Make a wish he doesn't use both.
6. Repeat until defeated and don't panic from the flashing lights, screaming scientists and loud alarms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So I've been struggling with different characters and their strange super/ultra combos. How do you do Blanka's ultra for example? I can't quite make sense of it. It goes to charge from left-down to up-right but then it needs to start at down-right and roll to down-left to up-right. The hell? Do I need to release the thumbstick and start from the middle?
Another thing, anyone have a few good pointers how to play el-fuerte? All of his jumping and running stuff is so easily countered by multiple strikes (chun-li's leg spam is a good example) or simply ducking. Wall jumping and mid to low attacks used with running just leaves you wide open to any crazy combo the other character has. All normal attacks are extra slow and puny which the AI takes no time to dodge or combo at. It quickly learns to avoid both tackling and command grabbing, at latest when the 2nd round starts. The EX version of running is quite pointless as the AI reads your combo when you execute it on the pad. It also provides no damage/combo benefit from a normal one.
It's been a while since I fought a flowchart ken... I keep hoping to run into more as they're pretty much free battle points with my fighting style (which can neatly be summed up as; block, throw, repeat :3 )
unlike most players who are about flashy combos I'm about finding the most efficient ways to make you scream with rage and break down in a sobbing fit :3
Comments
I got around to unlocking Sakura today and she's not as bad as I thought she'd be. Sure, her fireball is rubbish (not as bad as Dan's weedy puff of air though <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> ) but her shoryuken is- dare I say- as good as Ken's. Can't remember off the top of my head if it does knockdown but the horizontal range is impressive.
Interestingly, her whirlwind kick is safe on block at all levels of power from what people have been saying and yeah, her dragon punch is excellent; partially for the ground it covers and also because it multi-hits rather nicely :3
The thing with tiers, even more so in SF4, is that while they're an indicator of the char's overall strength (or how many bad matchups they have) the gap isn't so big that it's a guarantee. Most people have been saying that they don't feel the top and bottom tiers of SF4 are as far apart as they have been in previous Capcom games.
That said, if you fight with a lower tier character it still means you're working for your wins more than you would if you'd taken a high tier :p
I'd love to say I play Cammy to give the rest of the world a chance ( ;D ) but for some reason I just click with her playstyle better than the other chars these days. Back in ye olde SFII I used to play Vega->Guile->Ryu. The futher up that 3 person chain I went the more serious I was and I never had to make a 4th beyond Ryu because none of my friends back then could beat me on him. They barely ever won against Guile as it was :p
Back then Vega's izuna drop was listed as 'Barcelona' so I'd sing the the key line from queen song of the same name loudly at my friends when I pulled it off; while I like to tease most of the time, fighting games just make me take it to a whole new level... only if my opponent is of a decent level though. I don't harrass people who are still learning :p
<b>Suck</b>
- Vega (too easy to lose that all-important claw)
- El Fuerte (El Debil more like)
<b>Strong</b>
- Sagat
- Akuma
- Ken
- Ryu
- Guile
- Blanka (you can go straight into electric from recover)
- Rufus (but kinda hard to use)
I also think you might be underappreciating Sakura. She's not bad if the person knows what they're doing with her considering how versatile she is.
Can't wait till my friends get sticks so I don't have to play on the godawful 360 d-pad (direction pad? more like 'stab-in-the-dark' pad)
The 360 d-pad is so unreliable I've had it select grenades (up) when I was trying to switch to my secondary weapon (right) in gears of war ¬.¬
We played some some Soul Calibur 4 on a friends PS3 and I play that with a 'tekken claw' (where you don't hold the pad with your right hand but instead use your fingers to push multiple buttons, handy for pressing horizontal and kick together in SC which is awkward with your thumb alone) and every time I rested the pad on my leg those cruddy triggers would get pressed. I've never had that problem with the 360 pad (or the old PS2 ones or any other pad for that matter).
I much prefer the fightpads I ordered personally... having all 6 buttons on the face in their logical punch/kick rows just feels so much better.
It's kinda a problem really because I'm hopeless with the arcade sticks (the few shots I've got with the arcade or someone's fightstick have been rather embarrassing) and I went with a friend to one of the many lil SF4 tournaments that have been popping up all over the place and didn't even make it past the first round because they were using a PS3 (I kept pressing the wrong buttons and messing up my motions.... kinda odd considering how many hours of guilty gear I've played on the PS2 but I guess that was a while back especially since I got Guilty Gear Accent Core on the Wii... love those retro pads! :p ).
It sorta bothers me... my other fighting friends seem to adapt to new controls pretty quickly and I usually have to play catch-up but once I indoctrinate the new pad/stick/whatever to muscle memory I'm usually up there with them in fighting skill (well... overall anyway. My move execution is fairly flawed so I fluff a lot more than them but I balance it out with strategy, intuition and dodging skills that have driven some people to frustration :3 ).
I don't really like using shoulder buttons as main buttons in fighters these days though. I much prefer the guilty gear / SNK way of only having 4 main buttons instead of 6 and putting lesser used functions or multi-button shortcuts on the shoulders (e.g. duster, taunt and burst.) Besides... who the heck uses all 6 types on a single character? I mean move moves only actually use 3 of them at most (they just vary between strengths rather than punch and kick). Guilty Gear pulls and Capcom vs SNK series pulled it off fine with just 4.
Actually, while I'm on this topic; am I the only one who thinks that the fighting genre is a bit weird in this respect? In most other genres special controllers are merely for greater immersion. In fighting games it actually affects the game quite a lot however.
It's also the only genre where obstructive controls are tolerated or even welcome... if you had to do a double quarter circle to reload your gun in an FPS or hold back for 2 seconds the press forward, back, forward to turn a block in tetris people would be in an uproar :o
I actually realised you could totally pull a smash bros for specials for Street fighter in the most part. For those not aware of smash bros's system all special moves are on one button. The move the button does depends on what direction you press at the same time. Using streetfighter as an example...
Special Button with no direction: Fireball
Special Button and up: Dragon Punch
Special Button and down: <add a new move here or just leave blank>
Special button and left/right: Whirlwind Kick
For moves of varying strength you just hold the button (e.g. for lights you tap the move out, for fierce you hold).
I know they tried to make things a bit more approachable in Capcom vs SNK 2 EO but the 'easy operation' controls were mind boggling (they changed all the punch and kick buttons to weird things as well as having some supers on the C-stick) and they allowed you to choose EO or normal controls which meant most fighter players sneered at the EO and anyone who used them :p
Meh... I doubt it's going to change any time soon though. That said... I think I remember hearing that Tatsunoko vs Capcom had some kind of easy operation control system. Might have to give it a shot if it ever appears outside of Japan :3
Focus? Block aerial attacks? Parry? Counter? WHAT WHAT WHAAAT. Nothing is explained in the game <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" />
I'm assuming you know how the rest work but for the heck of it...
Focus Attacks: hold medium punch and medium kick - This attack allows you to take a hit without flinching and if fully charged is completely unblockable. Though you do take damage from the hit, you'll eventually regenerate the lost health back unless you get hit before it finishes doing so at which point any recharging health (marked in green on your bar) is lost. The only exception to the 'ignore one hit' rule are 'armour breaker' attacks which smash through the focus with a single hit (all characters have at least one armour breaker move and multi-hit attacks do much the same job)
Focus Attacks good for mix-up and you can let go to fire them off at any time you like which makes for excellent mind-games. Oh and grabs can go through focus attacks too so don't let them get too close if you're charging one :p
Dash Cancel: Double tap left or right while charging a focus attack - handy trick as it stops your focus attack and causes you to dash forward or back. This means you can start charging a focus to freak someone out then dash back when they try to armour break it then follow up while they're open or dash forward and do a move as they try to jump away.
FADC: Focus Attack Dash Cancel - At certain points during your moves while you're touching the ground you can press and hold medium punch and kick to stop the move in its tracks and go immediately into a focus attack. This manouver costs 2 super bar pieces... if you don't have them you can't do it. You can extend your moves or close an opening by using this, especially if you immediately dash out of the focus attack which is what a FADC is. Some of the crazier combos require FADC and if you learn how to use it you can really mess people up.
Parry: Doesn't exist in Street Fighter 4. That's a system that exists back in Street Fighter 3 and P-Groove on Capcom vs SNK 2. Don't worry about it :p
Here's some terms you might or might not have heard that might be useful though...
Reversals: Most characters have a move that has such high priority it will override the opponents move almost 100% of the time and can be buffered so that they go off the second you get up (before the opponent can do anything to you). These are referred to as reversals. For most characters this is the Dragon Punch.
Negative Edge: Street Fighter counts letting a button go as a command action for special moves. This means that you can essentially hold down punch and then later do a quarter circle forward and let go to do your fireball. This might just seem like a fun quirk at first until you realise some characters have moves that end in them pressing back (e.g. Cammy's spinning backfist is a half circle from forward to back). Now, normally when you 'fluff' a move like this you'll punch in the air and take a fireball in the face for it or whatnot, but if you fluff it when you're attempting to negative edge it doesn't punch and so you end up blocking instead. Handy huh? Try it yourself in practice for fun :3
Tick Throws: when you take a hit in street fighter games you enter 'recovery frames' or 'hit stun'. Even if you block you still get these (though block stun is shorter than hit stun). During stun frames you can't do any moves but you can't be grabbed either.
Tick throwing is the dark art of hitting someone with a basic attack and then grabbing them The very second they finish their stun time. If timed right the other player will be unable to do any moves before you grab them. The only counter to this technique are reversal moves :p
Funnily enough... this technique annoys the living hell out of people and I exploit it every chance I get in the older Street Fighters. I haven't trained myself to use it in SF4 yet but I suspect it still works the same XD
Not sure how handy those explanations are... if they confuse you more then oopsy, if not and they helped then consider me happy :3
Blocks work like the following, no?:
Standing block works against high and mid attacks
Crouching block works against mid and low attacks
I've managed to do a few accidental counters. It seems to be all about pressing the same attack button as the opponent just before it hits you, isn't it?
Highs are referred to as 'overhead' attacks. The vast majority are aerial (like kicking as you come down or bison's head stomp) though there are some rare attacks that can do this on the ground (Like Ryu's collarbone breaker or whatever it's called... forward and medium punch).
Ground-based overheads rarely chain well though so they're usually just single hits to discourage/punish excessive crouch-blocking when throwing is too risky.
Ooh! Forgot to mention...
Tech Throw: This is when someone attempts to throw you and you manage to press the throw buttons in the very small window right afterwards or at the same time. Teching a throw basically nullifies it so neither of you get hurt and you get forced apart; you can tell when a throw has been teched due to the little lightning type effect that goes off and the two chars push away from one another.
Cross-up: As you know, to block in street fighter you hold away from the enemy. Cross-ups are tactics or moves designed to abuse this by hitting you from the other side. In most cases it's little more than jumping in at a steep angle and using a move with a hitbox that hits them just behind their center line in the head. The enemy will be holding back which means that side is unprotected and they'll take the hit. Cammy's light punch used to be good for this but like I say... Capcom don't like Cammy so they messed it up :p
Move Cancelling: This is when you input a move as another is going off and instead of having the usual effect of the move completing then leaving you open or in some kind of cooldown it IMMEDIATELY executes the move you're cancelling into instead without delay. This is a basic tenant of comboing. Most of the time normal moves are used as 'links' to cancel through. On just about all characters medium punch or kick link quite happily with almost any of your specials The timing is kinda finicky so try and aim to finish the movement for whatever you move you want coinciding with when the current move hits (e.g. I press the punch for my fireball just as the medium punch I threw out hits).
Hope those help :3
If you're not doing it already the standard combo most people use at some point in their street fighter lives is jumping in and using fierce kick to hit the face/chest of your opponent. they'll still be stunned before you hit the ground so the minute you touch earth you sweep. If you're feeling more adventurous then there's much more damaging things you can do than sweep but I figure it's good to start easy and get in the habit :D
For Cammy a more advanced version would be: kick in the head, fierce punch -> cancel into cannon spike or cannon drill. For extra points the cannon drill can also be cancelled into the super on the first hit :p
I knew of 'Tech Throw' as it occurs quite often but it doesn't work against that frog humping french ######. All he do is throwing you around, whether you crouch, jump, block or tech throw. I hate him with my very soul, C.Viper was nothing compared to him. I beat him on easy but he plays ragdoll kungfu with me on stage 4or5 on EASIEST.
As for now, there is just one last thing I didn't ask before because Ken doesn't use it in his combos.
How do you perform 'charged' as it says in moves list? Chun-li has 'left' 'charge' 'right' then 'left' and 'right' along with a kick to make her super/ultra combo but I can't figure it out. My best guess is focus attack chained in it but you've gone through that so, derp.
So Guile's Sonic Boom is: hold away for two seconds, then tap forwards + punch.
There's a few ways to avoiding having to move backwards to charge- crouch+away works as does holding back whilst in the air or being hit/recovering.
I hate tech throws in SF4, light punch+kick takes too long to do. In HD remix it was so much easier.
So Guile's Sonic Boom is: hold away for two seconds, then tap forwards + punch.
There's a few ways to avoiding having to move backwards to charge- crouch+away works as does holding back whilst in the air or being hit/recovering.
I hate tech throws in SF4, light punch+kick takes too long to do. In HD remix it was so much easier.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, I see. I just remembered you guys talking about it previously in thread too.
About that other thing, quick/air recovery, how is this accomplished?
You may tell me about now to go google some answers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
About that other thing, quick/air recovery, how is this accomplished?
You may tell me about now to go google some answers <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A quick recovery, or technical, is accomplished by pressing the down button twice or any punch + kick simultaneously as you hit the ground. In earlier iterations of SF you could "soften" throws to make them do half damage, although I don't believe you can do that in SF4. Correct me if I'm wrong, someone. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Also, not to be a ######, but the manual to the game actually contains much information and answers to the questions you asked so far. You would be doing yourself a favor reading it. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
[Edit] Spelling. [/Edit]
A command throw is a throw that you need to enter a command for (e.g. half circle back, punch). They are character specific and not all characters have one. Generally I throw people all over the place but if it's a command throw character I avoid staying in throwable positions at all costs because if they buffer a command throw it'll beat your normal one and it'll hurt, especially with the two dedicated grapplers; Zangief and Abel.
I'm out of luck it seems... my win streak is now at an end. I've been getting laggy matches all of a sudden and my play style is too reactive to deal with it :/
Even the matches that aren't laggy I've been fluffing match-winning moves at critical moments and losing. Not happy ¬.¬
I'd probably win more if I switched to a 'strong' character but I'm stubborn and refuuuuuuuuse!!! XD
Bizarrely, now I'm used to it Gouken's best AA move is plain old standing MK. It's fast, and got a very respectable range. Sadly, he's still got nothing priority-wise that'll take on SRK. Hell, even his Ultra is trounced by it, which is pretty bad.
I'm still struggling with Command throw characters, especially as some of them (Gief in particular) can pull it directly following a jumping attack block, or worse a faked jump-in, and seems to be almost unavoidable in that case.
I definitely wouldn't class her as 'awesome' though. She could definitely use some tightening up, but it's not game-breaking, rather just annoying as it forces a smaller (but still effective) set of playstyles where a shoto would offer more flexibility.
Oh and SRK? For my turn to be blunt You can beat it with blocking :p
For your ultra you can actually be rather nasty with it using your throw; if you do your ultra after you toss them up in the air it's pretty much a guaranteed hit :p
Command throw characters are rather nasty, especially for a throw fanatic like me but luckily Zangief, at least, doesn't have an air throw so you can always fluff them by being airborne. Turns into an interesting mind game against Abel thanks to his ground-to-air grab though XD
1. Do not attack at start, just block and move backwards, try to scare him by moving forwards between his projectiles if you feel brave (cannot be dodged unlike fireballs).
2. Stand and block, never sit or do anything unless he is directly in your face (might teleport behind you). If so, press grab as fast as you can to get lucky or push out technical.
3. Jump if you can time all the different speeded projectiles, if not, block or counter with own. He will always throw at least 3 at you when he is at a distance before he jumps.
4. Wait for it... quickly make a high kick/punch/AA move when he jumps towards you. This is about the only move he cant retaliate when hit.
5. Don't do anything else, just take his ultra/super and suck it up. Make a wish he doesn't use both.
6. Repeat until defeated and don't panic from the flashing lights, screaming scientists and loud alarms.
Funny thing is I did exactly that the first couple of times I fought him. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />:D
1. Do not attack at start, just block and move backwards, try to scare him by moving forwards between his projectiles if you feel brave (cannot be dodged unlike fireballs).
2. Stand and block, never sit or do anything unless he is directly in your face (might teleport behind you). If so, press grab as fast as you can to get lucky or push out technical.
3. Jump if you can time all the different speeded projectiles, if not, block or counter with own. He will always throw at least 3 at you when he is at a distance before he jumps.
4. Wait for it... quickly make a high kick/punch/AA move when he jumps towards you. This is about the only move he cant retaliate when hit.
5. Don't do anything else, just take his ultra/super and suck it up. Make a wish he doesn't use both.
6. Repeat until defeated and don't panic from the flashing lights, screaming scientists and loud alarms.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just crouch and LP!
SHORYUKEN!
No, really it feels messed up getting beaten by your own moves.. (Ryu)
Another thing, anyone have a few good pointers how to play el-fuerte? All of his jumping and running stuff is so easily countered by multiple strikes (chun-li's leg spam is a good example) or simply ducking. Wall jumping and mid to low attacks used with running just leaves you wide open to any crazy combo the other character has. All normal attacks are extra slow and puny which the AI takes no time to dodge or combo at. It quickly learns to avoid both tackling and command grabbing, at latest when the 2nd round starts. The EX version of running is quite pointless as the AI reads your combo when you execute it on the pad. It also provides no damage/combo benefit from a normal one.
Awww yeah, <a href="http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1470/kenflow.png" target="_blank">Flowchart Ken.</a>
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I've actually been having fun with zangief
I'm glad to see the head to penis ratio size remains 1:1