Be Nice to the Noobs
bl00k
Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10727Members
Join Date: 2002-12-12 Member: 10727Members
So I haven't played NS in years and I've been getting excited about NS2 so I thought I'd load up the old NS. I jump in and find that the ###### bags that played before are still playing. I mean, geez, some of these guys don't shut up about how their team is the worst or this player is retarded or how they are the only ones saving the day.
Get over yourself!
I love NS, I would like other people to love NS too. But if I bring in some friends and say, "Come play NS, it is awesome!" and they are greeted with ######s they aren't going to enjoy the game.
If you like NS you should be doing everything you can to get other people to like it. When no one plays, you don't play. Just be nice, it isn't that hard. Help a noob and someday they won't be one.
Get over yourself!
I love NS, I would like other people to love NS too. But if I bring in some friends and say, "Come play NS, it is awesome!" and they are greeted with ######s they aren't going to enjoy the game.
If you like NS you should be doing everything you can to get other people to like it. When no one plays, you don't play. Just be nice, it isn't that hard. Help a noob and someday they won't be one.
Comments
But still if i do something someone els dont like i become the noob..
Well that word went from nice to cussing word.. so im sticking with the right spelling of the word newbie.
But i do see what you mean, and if you ever see me online you can assure im not going to yell noob,
It happen here and there as a cussing word.. even at my self.
That said, I know I don't bother with even calling others noobs, seeing as when it comes to NS1, I am pretty much a perma noob. I don't memorize Commander quick keys, maps, strats, and don't have a map. I am a terrible anything higher life form, especially since I seem to have no depth perception in melee.
Can NS2 make this better some how? Possibly. They could have appropriate admin commands and player voting options in from the get go, rather than as a modded add on. And I am sure they are aware that having the game be something that can be eased into for a new player having a role as well as the player who has taken the time to test the exact values of every tech and bio for their uber competitive play - and those everywhere in between. Also, it is possible that a game can set a tone in some features that allow for fun even when you lose a "life".
Unfortunate truth. Most of the people left are the jerks. There are fewer people who like to help. I know I try to help, but sometimes it's hard. Plus, I haven't been able to play as much recently.
This won't go away, but it might help in some situations if people called these people out and defended other players. Let them know that they're overreacting.
it could also be in the nature of a game which invokes frustration easily due to the fact that generally the game is won or lost within the first few minutes, and generally, the rest of the game is a slow loss for the team who wasnt on the ball within the first few minutes. (in general, alien teams suffer from the "on the ball" syndrome the most as cohesion is not easily achieved on an alien team and is dependent on many more factors than cohesion is for a marine team)
Also, I missed the OP's last sentence in my first pass - it's not true that teaching someone will stop them from being a noob. A new player is one thing, a scrub is another. There are a lot of the latter in NS, and they have no desire to get better, and infact resent any attempt to point out the elephant in the middle of the room, or to offer assistance.
Fortunately not everyone is that way.
Hey dude you spent too much res on medpacks! Where are the hive lockdowns!? Eject!!
People forgot how to just have fun.
How does that make any sense? If players were having more fun playing to get kills/hump their teammates rather than winning, the competitive department wouldn't exist at all.
In a way, newcomers have simply missed the boat on NS. They're arriving and making unthinkable mistakes, even if they are the same mistakes everyone was making 5 years ago. The people still playing NS have '<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok" target="_blank">grokked</a>' the game, and their standards are high above what they were when NS first released.
Calling these people jerks is just as bad as calling the newcomers idiots for expecting a 5-year-old game to be welcoming to newbies. Both is probably true with the benefit of hindsight, but the natural reaction of an elite community is to keep itself elite, and the natural expectation of a newcomer is to be made welcome. These two assumptions don't mix well in games as old, and with communities as small as NS.
Yes, the first impulse should be to try to educate, but NS is a past-paced game. I personally will go as far as typing a few lines of text or talking a few lines of advice over the mic before I reject a newcomer. Once they have the facts, they can either adapt to how the game is played or be ostracised. With TF2, being a newer game, I'm much more prepared to ignore newbie errors (Demomen not stickying the last CP as a matter of routine, Pyros not spychecking, etc.). But with NS you are entering into an older community, and as much as we can talk about how it would be nice for NS to be ever-welcoming, the truth is NS is a game that requires fast-learning and intelligence. This late in the game, the natural tendancy is to discard anyone who doesn't fit that bill.
thick skin
That frustration grows until it sort of kills the rest of any fun you ever had doing anything else so that if you don't win, you don't have fun. In a teamplay type game, it means it isn't enough being elite yourself, you have to make others play well or at least not screw things up for you. In TF, if a player screws up, at least they haven't ruined anybody's chances at winning more than simply taking up a player spot which another could fill who <i>could</i> do better.
In Natural Selection, you could potentially really screw up the chances of winning a round whether it be comming badly or misusing precious resources as a gorge. It's both the weakness and the strength of Natural Selection. It means everyone has to cooperate to win, but it also means to win, you almost <b>have</b> to work together because the opposite team is likely doing just that. Does that make any sense?
so youre doing some kind of sight seeing for newbies ? cooooool ^^
no back to the point i play NS1 scince 3-4 years not constantly some month more some lesser maybe a half year not.
and even i recognize that i got flamed for not making it PERFECT 1337 if i do not resaerch armor 1 fast or if i pull in motion tracking early every one wants to eject me screaming N00B COM!!!! i know how to com and i know the "standarts" of building, researching, and getting the hives/res and so on but i also dont want to make the ssame ###### every time i com so if the aliens dropped SC first i research MT (kickin the goerge that build SC first is also often happen with "how could this fool i need MC form other players")
so people really stick to much to WINNING of course we want to win but is it really that worse if you lose a round and may win the next ? do we need to keep "our" community "elite" ? what kind of elite is this if someone who didnt follow the "golden how to com rulez " get kicked maybe hes even better or throws in some new ideas?
ps. i do suck as alien at all , i alway try to be a marine otherwise im useless ^^
<!--quoteo(post=1693129:date=Nov 11 2008, 06:32 AM:name=Hawkeye)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hawkeye @ Nov 11 2008, 06:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693129"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The amount of fun is unfortunately relative to the player. What tends to happen in most cases is comparable to a cigarette addiction. Fun is easily gained at first, everything pretty much new and not done before. It gradually begins to fall off to the point in which it's fun to play still, but losing is frustrating.
That frustration grows until it sort of kills the rest of any fun you ever had doing anything else so that if you don't win, you don't have fun. In a teamplay type game, it means it isn't enough being elite yourself, you have to make others play well or at least not screw things up for you. In TF, if a player screws up, at least they haven't ruined anybody's chances at winning more than simply taking up a player spot which another could fill who <i>could</i> do better.
In Natural Selection, you could potentially really screw up the chances of winning a round whether it be comming badly or misusing precious resources as a gorge. It's both the weakness and the strength of Natural Selection. It means everyone has to cooperate to win, but it also means to win, you almost <b>have</b> to work together because the opposite team is likely doing just that. Does that make any sense?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A very good musing. Even the concept of fun itself changes over time. And, drawing on my observations, I have generally seen that games that require a team or a player to "win" generally have more aggression, hysteria, and "meanness" than those where winning is not the main objective. That is what I meant, Anytime, not so much so that those games are better or worse than FPS games, but rather that noob-bashing is just a side-effect of the game mode.
Are you kidding? Some of my favorite games were with seriously playing people but who also were chill and explained stuff to the noobs while we kick arse. =]
For example, "oops, drop that OC over here next time" or "AAAAUUUUUUGH! HEALZ HEALZ HEALZ!" "No, res more important than your life, go die honorably!" Oh man, good stuff.
But seriously, some people do get too caught up in the winning part, and it can really ruin the game for others. Save your hardcore uber taunts and l337 noob-bashing for scrims. If you're in a pub, expect a few noobs to be around.
Sigh... I remember time when it was the standard to build a TF in base.
Also I hate it when people flame the guy that gets into the chair after about a Minute into the round when noone else would. Sometimes I wish there was a plugin that randomly forces on of the people that eject a com into the chair...
The community as a whole needs to see things from a different perspective. Newbies stay newbies longer if you're not being helpful and explaining why decisions they make are bad. That or they simply drop out altogether. Remember that everyone was a newb at natural selection and help out that guy who doesn't know what he's doing, if not simply to encourage him to play skulk and help out with the offensive. They might surprise you. They lack experience, not intelligence. You explain why you place defense chambers first, and they'll probably gorge next round and correct their mistake by placing a defense chamber instead of a sensory chamber (which isn't to say it's always a mistake to go sensory chamber, but newbies don't need to learn exceptions to standard tactics until after they learn the standard tactics).
For that matter, when that newb becomes an experienced player, he's far more likely to help other newbies who enter the game. I think newbies yelled at for doing something stupid will only do the same once they learn the game themselves in my opinion.
Unfortunately due to the nature of the game, it's extremely difficult to learn to comm because everyone on the team has to have patience, and that's a tall order. I would recommend some sort of mechanism to remedy this for natural selection 2. I heard that multiple comm chairs were not only possible but fairly likely, so perhaps that would be the best solution.
One of the annoying aspects is obviously stacking. I know that you can't really do anything about it, but stacking mostly happens because it's incredibly annoying to lose, much more so than in other games. You can be 2 minutes in the game, and know that you will lose, but not for another 15 minutes. That's agonizing. New players are thus pitted against players with perfect aim, in which case they just die thousands of times, or they're in for the ride, in which case it doesn't matter because a handful of players alone obliterate the opposing force.
I know that you're going to say that people love to play together, but why not make it enjoyable to play against each other? When a handful of players are just incredibly better than the rest, the game is more often than not decided by the mistakes of the bad players.
I guess that making it fun to lose can also be an alternative, but that's easier said than done. There are, however, gamekillers that should be removed, such as spawncamping. In general, having something that the losing team can hope for except quick death or a lucky mistake from the opposing team.
I guess that making it fun to lose can also be an alternative, but that's easier said than done. There are, however, gamekillers that should be removed, such as spawncamping. In general, having something that the losing team can hope for except quick death or a lucky mistake from the opposing team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've always thought spawnkilling as the way to finish the game quickly on public servers. Most of the time when someone gets the camp locked in, its over in a minute. Meanwhile the spawn prot co keeps going for 45 extra minutes even if the winner is clear.
I think the shorter endgame should fix some of the stacking issues too. At least the stacked rounds should be way quicker than in NS.
Generally speaking RTS games aren't meant to be played to the last unit standing. However, in NS there isn't a single player to decide when its time to give up. I don't know if some vote system could work without too much of abuse. On the other hand the end game is also good for newbies, since they can freely try out anything they want and its not going to hurt the team.
I have yet to make one kill as an alien and have been playing NS1 for over a year now.
Whenever I am on the alien side, I am routinely abused by everyone for dying frequently.
On the marine side, I basically just kill more things than they do until they shut up.
I have yet to make one kill as an alien and have been playing NS1 for over a year now.
Whenever I am on the alien side, I am routinely abused by everyone for dying frequently.
On the marine side, I basically just kill more things than they do until they shut up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you enjoyed your stay at <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=104580&view=findpost&p=1692696" target="_blank">Step 1</a>?
Step 10 is now defunct. Go join ENSL.
...said the noob.
It was very pleasant, but the nieghbors could have been better.
I'm actually at "step 4" by that chart.
And I wasn't raging about anything. ^^;
Get over yourself!
I love NS, I would like other people to love NS too. But if I bring in some friends and say, "Come play NS, it is awesome!" and they are greeted with ######s they aren't going to enjoy the game.
If you like NS you should be doing everything you can to get other people to like it. When no one plays, you don't play. Just be nice, it isn't that hard. Help a noob and someday they won't be one.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A recommended solution would be to grow some skin/use the mute button whenever you are feeling offended by another player.
Else I would just forget playing any online game altogether that has an opposing force.