It's been done better in...

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  • twilitebluetwiliteblue bug stalker Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13116Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,988 Advanced user
    QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Mar 14 2011, 03:57 AM) »
    I think a big problem with NS2 is the level sizes. You mention Savage 2, and it's maps are huge(if undetailed). But that's the thing, quantity over quality in some cases.

    I find the tiny maps of NS2 to be uncomfortable and boring, and not very scary or tense at all. Don't get me wrong, theyre well designed for what they are, it's just I have heard ns1 maps were larger, as in EXPANSIVE. Where in NS2, the maps feel small, but they don't feel claustrophobic.

    What I mean to say is that you should still have the tight spaces, but there just needs to be longer hallways, bigger rooms, and a slightly faster pace of movement.

    btw, I never played ns1.


    You are spot on.

    Smaller maps are more predictable and repetitive to play, as there is less distance to travel between locations, hence fights occur more often (in the same locations), and there are less breaks in between. When the map is so small (eg Tram), players (marines especially) can often simply sprint back to base to heal after a fight, making the game even more repetitive.

    I really miss the good old claustrophobic NS1 maps (Nancy, Bast, Lost, etc).
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    QUOTE (twiliteblue @ Mar 20 2011, 07:07 PM) »
    You are spot on.

    Smaller maps are more predictable and repetitive to play, as there is less distance to travel between locations, hence fights occur more often (in the same locations), and there are less breaks in between. When the map is so small (eg Tram), players (marines especially) can often simply sprint back to base to heal after a fight, making the game even more repetitive.

    I really miss the good old claustrophobic NS1 maps (Nancy, Bast, Lost, etc).


    Nah. I'm more of a fan of the larger ones like ns_veil and ns_orbital. I think ns_machina started to go overboard in its detail and size, but it definitely was gorgeous.

    But yeah, once we get rolling with larger maps so you have stronger strategic choices to make on the ground, I think things will start to really get fun.
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=125347
  • ChrisJustinParrChrisJustinParr Join Date: 2011-01-28 Member: 79359Members Posts: 16
    Infestation has been done better in Starcraft. There, I said it.

    Just copy it. Don't call it creep and hope they won't sue you.
  • KuBaNKuBaN Join Date: 2002-11-16 Member: 8979Members, Constellation Posts: 1,375 Advanced user
    I'm surprised no one's mentioned Warhammer 40K: Dawn of War II. The game has 0 emphasis on base-building, and focuses on squad-based combat. A few notes could be taken in regards to the Point system, as the territorial control aspect seems similar, as well as the Commander's assist abilities.
    This is the kind of thing that goes on behind close doors on normal game releases, where they are optimizing it right up until the end. You guys are just getting to play with a version of the game that normally only the developers see.

    --Cory


    nicojones
  • PfhreakPfhreak Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8612Members Posts: 75
    Take a look at how the flamethrower in killing floor works, graphically. It basically fires a billboarded sprite with a tail. It's not too complex of an effect to create and it looks so much more realistic than the cheesy cardboard flamethrower effect currently in NS2. Also, it respects walls, because the particles bounce slightly.
  • wulfwulf Join Date: 2008-08-03 Member: 64749Members Posts: 415 Fully active user
    ns_agora. you could do ns1 single player on that map and play pretend detective.
  • FloodinatorFloodinator [HBZ] Member Join Date: 2005-02-22 Member: 42087Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,301
    QUOTE (IeptBarakat @ May 14 2010, 09:16 PM) »
    Armored Core 4. There was a patch modifier history option. Purely gameplay wise.
    Seeing how the game was coded in supposedly 99% in lua. 1% in nanites of course. It shouldn't be too difficult and anyone can play any version just by changing servers.

    There should be a server-side list/option that has the server able to play the game like it did on like 1.23 instead of the current one. So a patch during a tournament didn't screw anything up.

    Naturally it'd be separate from engine/visual patches and just stay as gameplay variables.

    It'd be like the ultra vanilla version of the game if you wanted to play by 1.0 rules.

    Just a thought from many people complaining about autopatching with steam.


    So disable Autopatching on Steam till tey implement this (if they do).
    image
  • measlesmeasles Join Date: 2007-02-26 Member: 60122Members, Constellation Posts: 398 Advanced user
    edited September 2011
  • measlesmeasles Join Date: 2007-02-26 Member: 60122Members, Constellation Posts: 398 Advanced user
  • Shadow58Shadow58 Join Date: 2009-11-17 Member: 69406Members Posts: 77
    QUOTE (alibi @ Jun 1 2010, 02:53 PM) »
    While I like both of these.. voices for atmosphere and reticle for hit confirmation.. I also agree with those arguing against for both spam and unrealism.

    How about, combining them both. Only when there is contact between the two teams are voice (and alien) feedback exchanged.

    If a marine shoots a Kharaa, it could yelp in pain.. and the marine may acnowledge contact.. perhaps a 'hit one!' or 'contact!' or a subtle 'nearly got him' or similar. Even an excited 'yeeeaahhhh' after a kill.

    If a marine takes damage he could perhaps begin heavy breathing, moans, and perhaps screams depending on the extremity of attack.

    I imagine I would be pretty special if you could hear your buddies screams echoing death down the hallways!

    But yes, if marines are sneaking around without contact then there is no need for giving away their position with voice.

    I don't mind the occasional 'reloading' when in squad battle though.


    I really like this idea to be honest, yes getting visual confirmation on something is nice and better in some ways but keeping the tensity of not fully knowing if you got your target or not keeps you up on your toes. I think a yelp of growl from a skulk would be neat, while a arh! or moan, something realistic on a voice expression from a human would be cool. Not having english tho cause aliens don't understand us, english ffolks. I would love that if an enemy is shot and hit that a red dot shows up where it got hit on the mini-map, of course that red dot is static and appears once.. if the enemy is hit again and the dot hasn't disappeared then nothing new shows up, only once the dot has faded away does it reappear if you shoot and hit the target again, if someone else hits it then another dot shows up. once a corpse is found of the target, then one dot is taken away off the screen, tho if a friendly sees it too then another dot is taken away if not faded away already. This 1. adds to intensity by voice because you don't know if their dead but you know you got them when their moaned over the shot. 2. stealthy sneaky shouldn't get shot or else they will respond, but all responses are once until struck again, and personally hitting something should only come from marines with rifles saying contact to give added confirmation of hitting a target. 3. visual mini-map thing adds to intensity making targets sometimes looking like more than there actually is, and only confirming your kills by up-close visual confirmation will identify on the mini-map that no more known threats are around.
  • IronsoulIronsoul Join Date: 2011-03-12 Member: 86048Members Posts: 869 Advanced user
    Mouse Input and player movement has been done better in unreal tournament 3.

    I'd probably say that about all games though (source, that thing skybum is running on, quake engines, iw5(and all others, yes, I know it's pretty much quake), etc), but I still think it's incredibly important to mention this here.

    In natural selection 2, movement speed, footsteps, movement acceleration from standing still, movement acceleration to change direction... it just feels wrong. It feels like there is a force fighting my natural intuition of what should happen.

    Same goes for mouse input, I move my mouse, and there is a slight delay, most people I talk to say they don't notice it, but it's there. I played unreal tournament 3 for the first time about a week ago... I was shocked at how amazingly 1:1 smooth and responsive the mouse input was, I didn't even know other games were unresponsive(compared to ns2).

    NS2 should strive to have the same mouse responsiveness as unreal engine 3, and it should also strive to have a much more responsive feeling movement system... this truck acceleration style of slow movement is painful, and when you sprint... it feels... bad.

    As I said, most people I have talked to don't notice these things, but theyre a big part of the gameplay, and a massive reason people struggle in online fps games.
  • Omega_K2Omega_K2 Join Date: 2011-12-25 Member: 139013Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 558
    Dead Space 1 (warning, spoilers :P)

    It is one of the very few extremly athomspheric games. Even though it is static in terms of levels, I really like how the feel that spreading infestation was realized.
    Humans would become part of the infestation, the infestation would spread though areas breaking doors and electronic devices, parts of the ship/station would start to fail one after another and the infestation was continously "developing" new means of stopping the player (eg. poisoning the air).

    But also the maps, generally pretty dark with creepy atmospheric sounds.

    I think some of these elements would be extremly nice in NS2. First that fallen/dead marines on infestation would strengthen the infestation (healing buildings, spreading it further). Infested marines could also infest small areas or turn into a cyst on death.
    Furthermore having infestation block hallways (something that the alien commander would be able to do), would a great way to enhance the infestation feel and the abilities of the alien comm - those blocked areas could be burned down with flamethrowers for example.

    As a mechanism late game the air could become posionous for marines if the aliens took control of all hive spots/refs except the ones in the marine main base and they haven't won yet (let's say the air becomes posionous if aliens hold all refs/hives for at least 30-60 secs or so).


    German Slaughterhouse | GS Servers | Server Hardware
    IGN: [#OMEGA] - K2 (Hive)

    NS2 long standing issues (Fix ETA: Never):
    Bad Netcode (no adjustable tickrate, extremly delayed hit feedback, bad hitreg),
    Bad Performance (Poor Multi-threading, Mouse Lag, bad server performance, almost no multi-threading in server application)
    Bad Balance (GL Spam, semi-useless exos, poor chance of comebacks, no upkeep/or RT dimishing returns...)
    Technical Issues (Mouse Lag, Memory Leaks, Memory Corruption (and memory corruption server crashes))
    Bad Workshop implementation (down = kicks people/connection prboelms, out of date = nobody can join server),
  • ArkantiArkanti pub baddie Join Date: 2011-07-22 Member: 111781Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 694 Fully active user
    edited January 2012
    I think moving Whips should be controlled in the same manner as the Zerg's "crawler" defensive structures in Starcraft 2. As it is now, it's too cumbersome to control a group of whips at once and re-plant them somewhere. The way SC2 handles it is that you can hold down shift and after choosing to plant the crawler it let's you click where you want it to do so, and then continue quickly repeating that action for the rest of them while holding shift.

    The way it works in NS2 now is that there are no queue commands (shift does nothing) and rooting the whips has them all try and root in their current position, and if they can't they simply do nothing.

    I can't find a video showing multiple spine movement from the POV of the player, but I'm sure you guys on the team know what I'm talking about here :).
    Mr. Arkanti
    noGG Arkanti
    nova | Arkanti
    Pub Baddie

    Co_Summit - A remix of Summit's unique areas to mould it into a better Combat mod experience. I also broke all the textures. Mad skills yo.
    WildGrass Games - I make video games.
  • Frednic13Frednic13 Join Date: 2012-02-08 Member: 144237Members Posts: 5
    Heres an idea for the game where its been done better, (pretty sure it hasnt been mentioned like this yet) but Gears of War has reloading which would be cool if implemented into NS2 where the little bar goes across and you nail bang on its a good reload, and way off would be poor reload. I also would not like to see this game turn into Call of duty or w/e where everything is upgrades n crap. Just this simple thing would add a lot imo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-xwTP6MbAs this link explains what im talking about
  • WTFOmegamanWTFOmegaman Join Date: 2010-03-13 Member: 70946Members Posts: 3
    The original Natural Selection with the Onos. In that version, the Onos could eat the marines, and after a short time, digest them in their stomach. In NS2, this could be an alternate fire ability, and it provides you with health if you eat a marine (or power). After 8 seconds or so, the marine is digested and additional armour could be provided. If the Onos is killed before digestion is completed, then the marine lives. Whilst being digested, the marine would only see the inside of a pulsating stomach with stomach acids spraying in on the player's screen (through the eyes of the marine rather than seeing the marine himself in the stomach - like it was you who was swallowed).
  • fugsfugs Join Date: 2012-03-03 Member: 148015Members Posts: 10
    I've made a thread about this already, but:

    The point system was done better in Tribes: Ascend
  • TweadleTweadle Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39686Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 855
    I think NS2 was done better in NS1.
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members Posts: 1,731
    I was thinking the other day "what gameplay element did they add in NS2 which is really good and wasn't in NS1?".

    Maybe I forgot something, but I had trouble coming up with an answer. If I had really to pick something I would take alien comm I think, it's not perfect but it make some sense to have it.
  • ScrajmScrajm Join Date: 2011-10-17 Member: 127859Members Posts: 276 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Yuuki @ Jul 17 2012, 09:53 PM) »
    I was thinking the other day "what gameplay element did they add in NS2 which is really good and wasn't in NS1?".


    OMG you ns1 junkies. You are everywhere. The game has shiploads of issues, yes, not gonna argue bout dat. But hey, I love nano shield. I like the new res system + alien com. I like the fact that lerks aint a vent camper anymore, but actually a unit that requires some skill (spikes). The new PG model looks way cooler. Cysts could be awesome, if UWE just fixes them (yes, they still suck donkey). I like the fact that you can drop welders/sg/mines anywhere. I like the fact that there are more fades/lerks on the field in organized play. That was just a few of the things I could remember.
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,954 Fully active user
    NS2 lerk requires more skill?? Hardly, NS1 lerk was an incredibly difficult class to play at high levels, unless you just sat in a vent all day.. The only think the NS2 lerk does is fly around more. I cannot agree to the new resource system as it introduces tons of problems late game once your fully teched. Dropping weapons anywhere will need to be fixed at some point most likely, otherwise its walk 2 hive spawncamp till shotguns are done and then the comm drop shotgun(s).

    The only two things from that list that are somewhat agreeable are Larger numbers of lifeforms (ehh this one is good/bad), and the Alien comm (which is also something im torn over, atleast in its current implementation).
  • YuukiYuuki Join Date: 2010-11-20 Member: 75079Members Posts: 1,731
    Spikes were already in some NS1 versions. How the pg looks is not really a gameplay element.

    Found this :

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/inde...;s_new_from_NS1
  • GallegosLeliaGallegosLelia Join Date: 2012-07-18 Member: 154209Members Posts: 1
    edited July 2012
    QUOTE (gamakun @ May 31 2008, 09:37 PM) »
    Yes, it is in Left 4 Dead.

    QUOTE (gamakun @ May 31 2008, 09:37 PM) »
    Yes, it is in Left 4 Dead.



    Exactly! Although it was a long time ago, it was better if you really feel like comparing...


  • DarkOmenDarkOmen Join Date: 2002-11-05 Member: 7148Members Posts: 600 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Frednic13 @ Feb 8 2012, 02:30 AM) »
    Heres an idea for the game where its been done better, (pretty sure it hasnt been mentioned like this yet) but Gears of War has reloading which would be cool if implemented into NS2 where the little bar goes across and you nail bang on its a good reload, and way off would be poor reload. I also would not like to see this game turn into Call of duty or w/e where everything is upgrades n crap. Just this simple thing would add a lot imo! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-xwTP6MbAs this link explains what im talking about

    In both NS2 and Gears of War, it is critical that players choose to reload at the right moment so that they don't get Omnomnomed. What this style of reloading did for GOW was give the player more control over their reload time through a high-tension skill game. Sometimes, you could naturally "fumble" a reload because something in the game distracted you from completing the sequence. It was intuitive and felt very satisfying once you were practiced enough to not fail.

    +1
  • plausiblesargeplausiblesarge Join Date: 2012-08-02 Member: 154558Members Posts: 67
    Nuclear dawn does commander mode better than NS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSLztZHhVIw
  • [HEI] Spade[HEI] Spade Join Date: 2012-04-28 Member: 151223Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 109
    QUOTE (plausiblesarge @ Aug 4 2012, 02:02 PM) »
    Nuclear dawn does commander mode better than NS

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSLztZHhVIw


    Nuclear dawn is not an indoor game and doesn't have squares to place the buildings.
    The clarity of the view can't be the same and is much much more difficult in ns2 to have that because of the complexity of the rooms.

    Where commander view of s2 can be improved is the possibility to zoom in and out to give more possibilities.

    Otherwise tell me how is it better?

  • plausiblesargeplausiblesarge Join Date: 2012-08-02 Member: 154558Members Posts: 67
    edited August 2012
    QUOTE ([HEI]Spade @ Aug 4 2012, 11:19 PM) »

    Nuclear dawn is not an indoor game and doesn't have squares to place the buildings.
    The clarity of the view can't be the same and is much much more difficult in ns2 to have that because of the complexity of the rooms.

    Where commander view of s2 can be improved is the possibility to zoom in and out to give more possibilities.

    Otherwise tell me how is it better?


    It is better because it has many of the features we take for granted in RTS games, and makes the commander job a little less frustrating - it automatically assigns a control group 0 containing every player on the team for example. It has a nice feature where your teammates can see the white square you see on the minimap showing your screen so they know where you are looking. It also does a few other helpful things like a rotating/zoomable camera, it shows you why you cant place something somewhere (using grid squares) rather than the building just going red, and it shows down the left side of the screen how many units are in each control group. stuff like that.

    I am sure at least some of this functionality will make it into the final version
  • v1zorv1zor Join Date: 2012-07-20 Member: 154256Members Posts: 2
    edited August 2012
    QUOTE (Ironsoul @ Nov 20 2011, 12:21 PM) »
    Mouse Input and player movement has been done better in unreal tournament 3.

    I'd probably say that about all games though (source, that thing skybum is running on, quake engines, iw5(and all others, yes, I know it's pretty much quake), etc), but I still think it's incredibly important to mention this here.

    In natural selection 2, movement speed, footsteps, movement acceleration from standing still, movement acceleration to change direction... it just feels wrong. It feels like there is a force fighting my natural intuition of what should happen.

    Same goes for mouse input, I move my mouse, and there is a slight delay, most people I talk to say they don't notice it, but it's there. I played unreal tournament 3 for the first time about a week ago... I was shocked at how amazingly 1:1 smooth and responsive the mouse input was, I didn't even know other games were unresponsive(compared to ns2).

    NS2 should strive to have the same mouse responsiveness as unreal engine 3, and it should also strive to have a much more responsive feeling movement system... this truck acceleration style of slow movement is painful, and when you sprint... it feels... bad.

    As I said, most people I have talked to don't notice these things, but theyre a big part of the gameplay, and a massive reason people struggle in online fps games.



    AGREE!

    The movement really sucks in NS2. It feels like iam glued to the ground and can only move with much force.

    mouse and movement feels "improvised" in NS2 and on source engine+unreal engine "perfected" and "precise"

    - source engine and unreal tournament engine feels totally fluent and you feel "free". both engines deal with the movement the best from all games!!!!
  • QckoQcko Join Date: 2012-09-30 Member: 161141Members Posts: 12
    havent read all post here so maybe already someone suggested this but can u implement Quake killing spree sounds? And when u have dmg from bullets pop up can u add hitsounds?
    Known as Queathel, Qcko, Opicka_s_bananem, O<3,14>cka and @pe
  • FlatkinGFlatkinG Join Date: 2005-03-02 Member: 42984Members Posts: 36
    edited October 2012
    NS2 desperately needs to have the key binds far more easier to use, not being able to bind mouse wheel to anything at all, and not able to unbind the default "next weapon" is giving me the ######, the Menumod is far easier. most other games this isn't an issue and needs to be brought up to par. NS2 Menumod should be put in the game, the one at the moment looks pretty but doesn't function how it should. also alternate keys are a must!
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • peregrinusperegrinus Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72445Members Posts: 2,432 Fully active user
    QUOTE (v1zor @ Aug 14 2012, 01:41 PM) »
    It feels like iam glued to the ground and can only move with much force.

    - source engine and unreal tournament engine feels totally fluent and you feel "free". both engines deal with the movement the best from all games!!!!


    Agree with this. Not to say the marine should move faster, they should move smoothly and responsively.
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