It's been done better in...

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  • FaskaliaFaskalia Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation Posts: 2,405
    QUOTE(spellman23 @ Jun 24 2008, 08:11 PM) »
    Death Notices/Screens.

    What would be nice for NS2 is to have contextual death screens/sequences which can clue people in to how and why they died, and if there's anything they can do about it. Or, even just giving tips about gameplay features.


    I can already see it:
    You died to an Onos, 3 minutes into the game. EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!
    QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Jul 30 2008, 03:51 PM) »
    The only similarity to Ground Control is that instead of arriving from a building, your dudes arrive from the sky. Why does that merit a meh?
    QUOTE(puzl @ Apr 20 2007, 04:38 PM) »
    You can mince it anyway you like, but if a government can take it a way then it doesn't really matter if it is a right or a privilege, does it?
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members Posts: 655 Advanced user
    Savage and Savage 2. They both did very decent things with FPS/RTS commander hybridization. (Savage 2 suffers from some TRULY crappy netcode though...) Simple is good, and you CAN let the FPS people place buildings, sometimes. Maybe give them turrets and resource nodes? Commander hands you a packed turret, and you can place it on the ground, and weld it up. Or the commander can just place them himself.

    Crysis had a nice menu system too, you hold the button, then use WASD or the mouse to select what you want, and let up on the button. Say, 3-4 icons for skills, 1 for evolves, and one for selecting stuff to build if you are a gorge.
  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members Posts: 655 Advanced user
    Oh yeah, I forgot.

    Savage 2: each turret has a certain radius around it, and you cannot build another of the same type within that radius, so turret spamming is impossible. The most turrets you see in one area are one light, fast, and another heavier turret.

    So you can spam turrets, you just need to build a few expander buildings to do it, and those are not very cheap. To to translate this to NS2, you would need to build a turret controller, and each turret would have a 15-20 foot radius area around it where you could not place another turret.

    Maybe have 2 types of turret, one small and fast, and another much more expensive, but placeable near the smaller turret. Like a machine gun turret and a shotgun turret (maybe switch shottie turrets between slugs and pellets?)

    The alien analog.... have gorges place goo-makers on the floor to make growth, and the turrets need to be built in, or touching the goo? Then they can build the turret, and if they upgrade that to a type 2 alien turret, they can place another type 1 turret.
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members Posts: 3,883
    You should attach some pictures or videos of the relevant things in your post(s) EvilSmoo.
    Suggestions: ! @ # $ %
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    QUOTE(EvilSmoo @ Aug 6 2008, 05:28 AM) »
    Savage 2: each turret has a certain radius around it, and you cannot build another of the same type within that radius, so turret spamming is impossible. The most turrets you see in one area are one light, fast, and another heavier turret.

    So you can spam turrets, you just need to build a few expander buildings to do it, and those are not very cheap. To to translate this to NS2, you would need to build a turret controller, and each turret would have a 15-20 foot radius area around it where you could not place another turret.


    NS1 had a similar system as well, mostly to allow people to get around the buildings but also to prevent turret spam. OCs did not have this system, but instead you could only build so many in a certain radius.

    I'm not sure what you're asking for from the Crysis system. I believe you're referring to the system where you chose Armor/Speed/Strength/Cloak, correct? I'm not sure how that would work in NS since there's so many choices (upgrades, evolving, buildings, etc), unless you want to switch weapons using this system. Or, are you suggesting that the menu expand like it is now, but you can use WASD keys to navigate it?
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
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  • EvilSmooEvilSmoo Join Date: 2008-02-16 Member: 63662Members Posts: 655 Advanced user
    QUOTE(spellman23 @ Aug 12 2008, 08:23 AM) »
    I'm not sure what you're asking for from the Crysis system. I believe you're referring to the system where you chose Armor/Speed/Strength/Cloak, correct?

    Yeah, pretty much.
    QUOTE
    I'm not sure how that would work in NS since there's so many choices (upgrades, evolving, buildings, etc), unless you want to switch weapons using this system. Or, are you suggesting that the menu expand like it is now, but you can use WASD keys to navigate it?


    More of an expanding trees idea. Tabula Rasa does it well too, with the context menu. There is room for 6 individual choice-icons. When you indicate one of the icons by moving the mouse in that direction, it would open up a few more icons for each individual choice.

    So one for evolve, when you move over it, it displays what you can afford, with unavailables greyed out. If you are gorge, the build icon would not be greyed out, and you could select what to build.

    A combination of the control feel of Crysis with the expanding rows of icons from TR might do a pretty good job of offering good, easy controls, while making it fast to switch back out if you got attacked while looking at your menus. It could also offer marines an easy way to switch ammo types, or do voice commands, or probably lots of other things. If aliens cannot talk, you could have a row of pheromone choices too, kind of like voice commands, but in character, and you could use the reticle to point a teammate at another vent, for instance, so he would know to use that to flank while you attacked from another direction.

    Expandability would be a bonus too.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    QUOTE(EvilSmoo @ Aug 15 2008, 03:33 PM) »
    More of an expanding trees idea. Tabula Rasa does it well too, with the context menu. There is room for 6 individual choice-icons. When you indicate one of the icons by moving the mouse in that direction, it would open up a few more icons for each individual choice.

    So one for evolve, when you move over it, it displays what you can afford, with unavailables greyed out. If you are gorge, the build icon would not be greyed out, and you could select what to build.

    A combination of the control feel of Crysis with the expanding rows of icons from TR might do a pretty good job of offering good, easy controls, while making it fast to switch back out if you got attacked while looking at your menus. It could also offer marines an easy way to switch ammo types, or do voice commands, or probably lots of other things. If aliens cannot talk, you could have a row of pheromone choices too, kind of like voice commands, but in character, and you could use the reticle to point a teammate at another vent, for instance, so he would know to use that to flank while you attacked from another direction.

    Expandability would be a bonus too.


    I'm not quite sure what you're adding to the current menu system. It also expands similarly to what you're proposing, although you have to navigate it with more strict mouse movements than shoving the mouse like in Crysis or Battlefield. Maybe you're talking about a slightly more constrained or contextual menu system, such as only if you're Gorge do you see the build options, and then the ones that are too expensive are grayed out until you have enough res and are unelectable.

    I'm sure expandability to the menu will be there, considering how open the devs have been so far (or at least telling us how open they are, we don't have much code in our own grubby hands yet) to modifying almost every aspect of the game.
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
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  • t0x1kw4st3t0x1kw4st3 Join Date: 2008-04-27 Member: 64167Members Posts: 137
    edited September 2008
    Skip ahead a little bit in this movie. It shows the potential of "commanding". The difference is the commander doesn't have near perfect control over his marines, but the rest is pretty much the same.

    Pro Korean Starcraft player showcasing commanding "potential".

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1G407NUNU8

    How do I embed the movie?
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    Please do not make the commander micro, or at the least don't hinge commanding on micro ability.

    Besides, the entire concept of not controlling your units in the first place tends to break down how much micro is possible, unless you're suggesting we have tons of NPC doodads for the commander to micro. If you are suggesting this, what is the appropriate counter by Aliens?
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=125347
  • t0x1kw4st3t0x1kw4st3 Join Date: 2008-04-27 Member: 64167Members Posts: 137
    edited September 2008
    Well, I suppose the commander is a little slower paced in NS than in Starcraft. This video showcaes potential in a commander-like situation. But you're right, micro is extremely ineffective (no control, really). Perhaps the ULTIMATE IDEA IS to promote marines following commander orders.

    Perhaps, to increase the effectiveness of micro and teamwork, certain bonuses could be applied to Marines when they do something right (complete a checkpoint). If they move to a waypoint they are given, they get (+10 % Speed), (+10% Accuracy) or (+5 % Damage). This would give the edge to the team who is following orders and not ramboing. In any case, some reward must be given to marines who follow orders so that micro-management has a greater level of influence.

    TO make it not unfair, the commander has to drop his movement and attack waypoints strategically, as only while in their area of effect do the beneficial effects apply, similar to the Sensory chamber - cloak idea. The commander could also do "retreat" command, or "buckled in" command. These would have different effects. Buckle down increases the marine's armor by 30, but if even one marine leaves the area of effect, the entire effect is broken.

    And if you are really smart, you can make combo-checkpoints that connect to eachother for huge stackage bonuses. This will make an organized marine army a strong contender. For example, if the commander links goals, if a marine completes them in good time the bonuses stack. Consider five marines who all respond well to micro, doing all his orders. He selects them, drops a movement checkpoint followed by a Buckle Down checkpoint. They all move as a group and reach the movement checkpoint, receiving a 10% movement bonus, then quickly enter the Buckle Down checkpoint. Once they reach the checkpoint, because there is a timer between the last checkpoint and the next checkpoint (based on marine speed & calculated distance), if they reach the area within a given amount of time the bonuses from the previous checkpoint STICK. This creates "momentum". So, the idea is that a marine squad can gain "momentum" if it follows orders well. "Momentum" is the benefits (+speed, damage, temp armor, etc).

    Dude I know i'm brilliant.

    image
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • wankalotwankalot Join Date: 2005-02-05 Member: 39872Members Posts: 156
    Potentially a very good idea. Though it would be tricky to make this balanced.

    But yeah top suggestion
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    Discuss in it's thread please. This is not a thread to suggest ideas, but to provide examples of good implementations from other games.
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=125347
  • ghost in the shellghost in the shell Join Date: 2008-09-28 Member: 65094Members Posts: 137
    QUOTE(Redford @ Jun 5 2008, 09:36 AM) »
    I always liked the ack system in Tribes 2. It was the only ack system I ever used because it was so well implemented, and few other games have even noticed or cared to copy it. In T2, all acks were used from the "V"oice command. From there, you were presented with a list of different saying categories, each with it's own letter.

    The part that I liked about this system was that it was changeable. Both the voice binds and the keys that were used
  • RustInPiecesRustInPieces Join Date: 2008-10-15 Member: 65210Members Posts: 35
    edited October 2008
    Commander Zoom In/Out, like in Supreme Commander .
    Youtube video
    Fairly obvious why it would be nice, I don't think it needs explaining.
    It would have to be balanced somehow, though. Maybe you can only see areas with marines in them, or in areas you just scanned with an observatory while zoomed in.

    Sounds like a coding nightmare, never mind biggrin-fix.gif

    (should this go here, or in the commander thread?)
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    QUOTE(RustInPieces @ Oct 16 2008, 02:02 AM) »
    Commander Zoom In/Out, like in Supreme Commander .
    ...
    It would have to be balanced somehow, though. Maybe you can only see areas with marines in them, or in areas you just scanned with an observatory while zoomed in.


    Strategic zoom would be nice, but I believe they're implementing a more fixed height above the ground approach.

    As far as balance, I assume they'll still be using the Fog of War they've been using, or at least Fog of War of some type, so it'll be fine.
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....howtopic=125347
  • Lord SchnitzelLord Schnitzel Join Date: 2008-11-04 Member: 65377Members Posts: 68
    I agree. the Voice system in Tribes 2 was just awsome. After a short while you could do the "combinations" for the most used sayings in a second and it doesn't "lag" as much as using a mouse menu does. while i DO like the ouse menu in NS I just think giving players the ability to use keys is generally good (faster, customizable, ...)

    Schnitzel
    Blacksmith with an attitude
    Feuerkorb & Feuerschale
  • Lord SchnitzelLord Schnitzel Join Date: 2008-11-04 Member: 65377Members Posts: 68
    QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jun 24 2008, 05:33 PM) »
    I second the notion that the command keys are excellent. Whatever you do to the mouse interface please keep the command key interface the same.

    QFT, please keep the ky "block" the way it is now by default
    Blacksmith with an attitude
    Feuerkorb & Feuerschale
  • Lord SchnitzelLord Schnitzel Join Date: 2008-11-04 Member: 65377Members Posts: 68
    I agree, the "bhop" used in Warsow was a very very good implementation that I'd like to see for skulks in NS. It is intuitive (makes you feel like you're doing longer strides/leaps), it's incrementing (no "rocket start", so it really is a movement technique, not some trick you can pull of in a fight), you can just use your favourite jump key (no need to rebind Mwheel, use scripts or stuff like that) and you wont have the "exploiting glitches in the engine" discussion.
    The Warsow-"Bhop" - "press jump key while in the air and when you hit the ground you will automatically jump again" - fit's perfectly IMHO. But it only fit's the skulk. Mainres are not about movement as much as Aliens (and if they want to be, they have to research JP tech to be). The erk flys, the Onos is just too heavy to be agile (bhopping Onos' really feels wrong to me), Fades have blink... the Skulk is the fast scout unit and should be able to use this movement technique. Maybe the gorge although it's... well.. it's our lovely "phatty".

    my2cents

    Schnitzel
    Blacksmith with an attitude
    Feuerkorb & Feuerschale
  • ozbirdboyozbirdboy Join Date: 2007-08-07 Member: 61827Confirm Email Posts: 222
    QUOTE(Lord Schnitzel @ Nov 20 2008, 11:30 PM) »
    I agree, the "bhop" used in Warsow was a very very good implementation that I'd like to see for skulks in NS. It is intuitive (makes you feel like you're doing longer strides/leaps), it's incrementing (no "rocket start", so it really is a movement technique, not some trick you can pull of in a fight), you can just use your favourite jump key (no need to rebind Mwheel, use scripts or stuff like that) and you wont have the "exploiting glitches in the engine" discussion.
    The Warsow-"Bhop" - "press jump key while in the air and when you hit the ground you will automatically jump again" - fit's perfectly IMHO. But it only fit's the skulk. Mainres are not about movement as much as Aliens (and if they want to be, they have to research JP tech to be). The erk flys, the Onos is just too heavy to be agile (bhopping Onos' really feels wrong to me), Fades have blink... the Skulk is the fast scout unit and should be able to use this movement technique. Maybe the gorge although it's... well.. it's our lovely "phatty".

    my2cents

    Schnitzel


    A few good ideas in there, i like the option of hitting jump while in the air so it automatically makes you bunny-hop. I also think the only life forms who can use the bunny-hop feature are skulks and gorges as gorges are fairly slow as it is.
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation Posts: 5,602
    I only did a quick scan through this thread and didnt see anything but seeing other players through the walls via parasite/MT is done better in L4D with the teammate indicator. In NS you just see a moving dot without properly knowing what shape the object is, whereas in L4D you see an outline so you can determine exactly who is where. I cant seem to find any photos but im sure you all know what im talking about smile-fix.gif
  • FraxinusFraxinus Join Date: 2008-03-02 Member: 63783Members, Constellation Posts: 177
    How about ideas for the biometrics system?

    image

    image

    image

    If you didn't immediately recognize these they are the no shield health bars from halo.

    The HUD in Halo3 is also beautifully done as well. The HUD displays all vital information; health, grenades, ammo and radar in an elegant fashion.

    image

    -Frax*
  • ShockwaveShockwave If a packet drops on the web and nobody&#39;s near to see it... Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation Posts: 3,730 mod
    'Helmet' style HUD displays:

    Good examples:
    F.E.A.R 2
    Halo 3
    Crysis (Especially the ability to choose your own colour scheme, a very neat touch)
    Star Wars: Republic Commando

    It's all down to 'feeling' like it's on the character, rather than being an overlay.

    On a similar (but perhaps unlikely to be used) customisable interfaces with a limited API? See the WoW style XML interface? I'm deeply wary of even suggesting this, because I wouldn't want to see 'mandatory competitive addons' start to sprout like weeds, that may even give a player a significant advantage. However, it's quite nice to be able to refine your default game interface based on the sort of things the players come up with.

    Of course, you could use that as commentary to say 'Take the default WoW interface. Now look at the better things people did with it. That's the things people want.'
  • GraveGrave Join Date: 2007-12-28 Member: 63285Members Posts: 50
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

    please make some sort of indicator that people can actually see when something dies. for instance, a death animation that actually looks differant than theyre not being dead animations. i cant tell you how many times ive kept jumping and biting a marine that died a long time ago, but is still standing for some reason. (albeit with his arms held like a little nancy boy) most other deaths are fairly easy to see, but seriously, MAKE THE MARINES FALL DOWN at least.

    or even in counterstrike, a little green flash appears at the bottom, telling you how much money you got for killing someone. the flash is obvious enough so that you note its appearance, and thats all. the little ticker on teh side that tells you who kileld who is unimportant, because its tiny and popping up all the time.

    to end: i would like some sort of internal nd external indicator that lets me know when i killed something, and when something dies. (internal meaning some sort of HUD indication, external being a death animation that isnt the freshly killed thing just standing still for far too long)
  • ghost in the shellghost in the shell Join Date: 2008-09-28 Member: 65094Members Posts: 137
    in bf2 there was a voice bind for requesting reinforcement
    It would have been nice if ppl came and saved me, but they're all dead. as are the ppl i was with, and the comm recycled the phase gate...
  • HarimauHarimau Join Date: 2007-12-24 Member: 63250Members Posts: 3,883
    QUOTE(Grave @ Feb 19 2009, 02:03 AM) »
    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!

    please make some sort of indicator that people can actually see when something dies. for instance, a death animation that actually looks differant than theyre not being dead animations. i cant tell you how many times ive kept jumping and biting a marine that died a long time ago, but is still standing for some reason. (albeit with his arms held like a little nancy boy) most other deaths are fairly easy to see, but seriously, MAKE THE MARINES FALL DOWN at least.

    or even in counterstrike, a little green flash appears at the bottom, telling you how much money you got for killing someone. the flash is obvious enough so that you note its appearance, and thats all. the little ticker on teh side that tells you who kileld who is unimportant, because its tiny and popping up all the time.

    to end: i would like some sort of internal nd external indicator that lets me know when i killed something, and when something dies. (internal meaning some sort of HUD indication, external being a death animation that isnt the freshly killed thing just standing still for far too long)

    Heh. You make some good points. And I remember that about counter-strike too. That 'kill indicator' was unintentional, but very useful, and there's generally a sense of accomplishment - you know you're not missing.
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  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation Posts: 4,022 Fully active user
    QUOTE(Grave @ Feb 18 2009, 01:03 PM) »
    please make some sort of indicator that people can actually see when something dies. for instance, a death animation that actually looks differant than theyre not being dead animations. i cant tell you how many times ive kept jumping and biting a marine that died a long time ago, but is still standing for some reason. (albeit with his arms held like a little nancy boy) most other deaths are fairly easy to see, but seriously, MAKE THE MARINES FALL DOWN at least.

    That's a good point. I distinctly remember times where someone else's death message appeared the same split second I should have landed my killing blow/shot and stopped attacking prematurely because I thought they were dead.
    QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) »
    It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!


    - NS in game name - tilde - My Steam Id Page - .
  • MaximumGruleMaximumGrule Join Date: 2009-01-03 Member: 65955Members Posts: 14
    QUOTE
    Charlie is adding in team line of sight so Commanders can't see what the other team is building/doing unless guys on the ground can see.


    Tribes (1) allowed a commander (at a command console) to see the POV of a player in the field on a small viewscreen of the command console. The opening video of NS (1) shows a POV through a marine camera.

    Why not implement this feature?

    The commander would get a POV of the selected marine on a small screen in the command interface and it could bring a NS (1) Trailer Concept to life. The obvious benefits are there. Also, if a group of marines are selected, then perhaps the top marie (who is still alive) could be the POV camera viewed. Filters could be on the feed to both reduce it's latency and give a monochrome "in the field camera" feel.

    Peace!
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members Posts: 3,365
    QUOTE(MaximumGrule @ Mar 11 2009, 12:43 AM) »
    Tribes (1) allowed a commander (at a command console) to see the POV of a player in the field on a small viewscreen of the command console. The opening video of NS (1) shows a POV through a marine camera.

    Why not implement this feature?


    no point? I see little to no reason for this unless it's kept to a small part of my UI. I'm too busy looking at the map than trying to follow someone else's erratic mouse movements.

    Also, the NS1 trailer shows from Marine's perspective, not necessarily through a comm's camera feed.
    helping bring perspective and learning since the olde days

    QUOTE
    <jenny> What's the plural of 'Onos'?
    <Mexican> For a while, I thought it was 'Oh ######'!


    Vote on your Ideas/Suggestions!
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  • solcottsolcott Join Date: 2003-11-04 Member: 22307Members Posts: 65
    edited June 2009
    My suggestion would be to add some elements of Savage, that would create better player/commander communication. The things I think would be great additions to NS2 are...

    Soldiers being able to see what the commander is trying to place, you know, the red/green outline seen by the commander while placing structures, let all the marine players see that as it is being moved around, except VERY transparent to the non-commander players so it doesn't obstruct view. This one is actually already placed, but when they are about the be placed it looks like that but more transparent, I just hit the screenshot button too late :-) [screenshot]


    The progress of upgrades that are being researched, like add a little timer on all marine players hud showing how much time is left for whatever upgrades are being researched. (it's in the bottom right corner, the one with the % shows the completion of a structure, the other two show the time left for currently researching upgrades) [screenshot]


    "More" orders that can be given to the marines, by this I mean stuff like the commander being able to draw on the map, and have it show up on the minimap of the players on their team. Other than the occasional penis scribble that gets drawn on the map, this is VERY useful for telling people where to go or which path they should take to get there. It allows a path to be quickly drawn over the map that would let the players know how they should go to someplace, and it wouldn't confuse new players that don't yet know location names. Instead of the commander saying hurry to hive Z through X, but avoid room Y or whatever, they could draw the way there on their minimap and say "go that way". In this screenshot the commander just circled on the minimap where he wants to build some expansion bases. [screenshot]


    Make squads more useful, and by this I mean there should be some way for the players to know who is in their squad, and who is leading the squad. In Savage this also works great, because you end up getting used to being with a certain group of players, and the leader can pop up a menu and give orders to the people in their squad. Savage games are normally played with 64 players, with 4 or 5 squads, so in a game with less players than that this might not be as useful, it just makes running a large team easier because the commander doesn't need to do as much micro, because the squad leaders are doing some of it for him. (I'm having a hard time getting a screenshot for this, all the comm's today are retarded and not promoting anyone to officer to be able to give orders to the squadmates tounge.gif)

    OK, I finally got a screenshot of this. My squad leader (called on officer on there, he's on the far right of the screen) just gave me an order to attack a cloaked enemy unit ahead of us (I was playing healer at the time, so I'm sure I wasn't supposed to really attack, he was probably just pointing the enemy out to the group). I can tell the guy is an officer by the flag banner on his back, and I can tell the order was given by an officer and not the commander by the big blue letter O next to the word "Attack" on the top of the screen. [screenshot]


    My only other suggestion would be a way of knowing *something* about the commander who just got in the chair, here's a screenshot of someone trying to choose the commander role during game "warmup". [screenshot]

    I'll be back later with some screenshots :-)
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members Posts: 581
    QUOTE (Radix @ Jun 5 2008, 10:59 AM) »
    This video exposits several elements of a favorite game of mine (Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast) that were done objectively better than NS.

    The first you'll see is the server browser, which is reminiscent of Quake, with a friends search feature (although this is obsolete with Steam Friends now).

    The second is the system of melee combat which, while in the video handling sword style attacks instead of claw style, is combo-oriented and reactive to the player's movement, rather than requiring a new key for every different swing.

    It also shows different attack stances and methods of attack and defense, including rolling (functions by tapping duck while moving) and it might show force jump as well later on, which functioned by holding down the jump key, draining "mana" and acting as a sort of levitation.



    The major points I'm bringing up here are:

    1) That the game felt very polished, and as you'll note by the color emphasis above, the user interface was extremely responsive and clean - a problem NS has suffered with since the advent of non-teleporting Blink.

    2) The there were many options for action at a given time, and all of them were easily accessible with no prior scripting. In JK2, it is as easy to levitate as it is to perform a lunge as it is to duck and roll out of the way, as it is to trip another player (force enabled only, not shown in video) - the only question is what the situation calls for.

    3) That the game's movement system (google for examples if interested) functioned with far more than simple bunnyhop and airspeed control, ranging from super jumps to rolling to acrobatics like short wall runs and aerial kicks that would knock over other players, as well as telekinesis (which I'm not advocating in NS2) and special attacks like backstab, which functioned by moving back and into another player, and simply pressing attack.

    The central theme is a polished movement system with many good options all available with as little finger gymnastics as possible. The game's user interface was reminiscent of a mac. I never found the need to script in that game because it was so clean.


    I played JKII for a month or so, decent game. I believe Ninja Gaiden is an even better example of such movement mechanics. However, both are best played in 3rd person view. Most of their fancy combos would be superficial in a 1st person shooter, but the simple wall running and wall attacks would be amazing; specifically, wall leaping that is not ###### (like the current HL:NS implementation).
    CAL-ns|Austin
    CALeague - Natural Selection Division Admin

    image Co :: xHomicide
    Creator of ns_bhop (best ns map ever made), ns_duel, initial cal-ns plugin, nslearn.org website,
    and Capture Point (a 2 week source mod that a couple dozen people downloaded)

    http://austinlawrence.no-ip.org/ons/
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