TF2 Update Thread

remi

Anyone else really frustrated with how you sometimes "sit out" in Arena mode? I can't fathom why they would set it up like that.

8 on 8 with 4 people sitting out... Why doesn't it just change team size to 10 on 10?!

Thansal

Fixed a loophole that allowed players to pickup weapons of other classes


I am SO pissed I missed playing around with that (seriously, scout running around with a backburner, or a rocket launcher? that would be fun just for the chaos factor)

Played a bit this morning, it is fun killing heavys.

I figure I should get making bacon soon.

Kouji_San

<!--quoteo(post=1686289:date=Aug 20 2008, 03:19 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Aug 20 2008, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Played a bit this morning, it is fun killing heavys.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i><b>Boom headshot</b></i> is managable, <i><b>peekabook backstab</b></i> is harder on maps without room to manouvre (fatty's keep glogging up the hallways and spray with their miniguns to make ya flicker. And as soon as they see that all hell breaks lose and you die in negavite time!

But yeah it is fun to play the counter classes of the heavy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

lolfighter

I REALLY need to work on my aim. If I'm the only sniper on the team, I should out-score everyone else, rather than lurking around in the top three.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1686294:date=Aug 20 2008, 10:05 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Aug 20 2008, 10:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686294"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i><b>Boom headshot</b></i> is managable, <i><b>peekabook backstab</b></i> is harder on maps without room to manouvre (fatty's keep glogging up the hallways and spray with their miniguns to make ya flicker. And as soon as they see that all hell breaks lose and you die in negavite time!

But yeah it is fun to play the counter classes of the heavy <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually, for me it has been "BURRRRRN!" due to the fact that most of the heavys suck <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

lots of use out the the back burner on 2 fort (drop down behind them, light em all up, and run away cackling)

lolfighter

... while they run around crackling!

Nil_IQ

Man, I forgot how much I suck at TF2. I think I need to pick a damn class and stick to it, it seems like I keep going:

"Damn, I keep getting backstabbed as a heavy, i'm switching to pyro"

"Damn, pyro's too short ranged, i'm switching to soldier"

"Damn, soldier's too boring, i'm switching to spy"

"Damn, I suck at spying. I'm switching to scout"

"Damn, Scout doesn't have enough health, i'm switching to heavy"

Repeat ad nauseum.

Also, does anyone else think valve totally should have called the video "Meat the sandvich"?

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1686305:date=Aug 20 2008, 12:19 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Aug 20 2008, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686305"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->... while they run around crackling!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well played lolfighter, well played.

Geminosity

I'm quite enjoying arena. I recently won a match as pyro with a pantomime-like moment of me slowly creeping up on a soldier with both of us almost dead... every time he turned round I'd creep closer only to dart out of sight when he looked my way. I've not had that many "good one!" messages from my team since counterstrike XD

The heavies are funny; most of them don't seem to have realised they can turn as fast as they'd like so I've circle burned a few today without taking much damage =D

My medic is only as fun as my team is good; if they're rubbish I'll quickly find myself alone and fairly dead. If they're good and stick together it's a great time for me =3

ZupiCo

<!--quoteo(post=1686289:date=Aug 20 2008, 03:19 PM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Aug 20 2008, 03:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed a loophole that allowed players to pickup weapons of other classes
I am SO pissed I missed playing around with that (seriously, scout running around with a backburner, or a rocket launcher? that would be fun just for the chaos factor)

Played a bit this morning, it is fun killing heavys.

I figure I should get making bacon soon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sticky jumping engineers? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wow.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":0" border="0" alt="wow.gif" />

spellman23

<!--quoteo(post=1686314:date=Aug 20 2008, 07:01 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Aug 20 2008, 07:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686314"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My medic is only as fun as my team is good; if they're rubbish I'll quickly find myself alone and fairly dead. If they're good and stick together it's a great time for me =3<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I made Medic my primary even before the bloody Medic update. =] But I hear you. Sometimes I'm healing someone and just watch them run in and die stupidly. Then I take out my syringe gun and hopefully mow them down as I run away. And then there's the times I get 5 assists per life.

sherpa

Crits in arena is ****ing annoying.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1686289:date=Aug 20 2008, 09:19 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Aug 20 2008, 09:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fixed a loophole that allowed players to pickup weapons of other classes
I am SO pissed I missed playing around with that (seriously, scout running around with a backburner, or a rocket launcher? that would be fun just for the chaos factor)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

We really need an exploit notification website or something.. So any time an exploit like that is found we can play with it before an update fixes it.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1686324:date=Aug 20 2008, 04:02 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(spellman23 @ Aug 20 2008, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I made Medic my primary even before the bloody Medic update. =] But I hear you. Sometimes I'm healing someone and just watch them run in and die stupidly. Then I take out my syringe gun and hopefully mow them down as I run away. And then there's the times I get 5 assists per life.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is why I use the vampire gun. RUNAWAY! (and get some HP out of the deal!)

<!--quoteo(post=1686326:date=Aug 20 2008, 04:17 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Aug 20 2008, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686326"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Crits in arena is ****ing annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then you would HATE me!

Arena games are too short to get a full ubercharge going, thus making the Kritz (with its faster charging) PERFECT for Arena!

True, if you find the fights are going longer, then the actual uber is better, but the Kritz can come in at just the right time often <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />

SentrySteve

The new push mode map isn't too hot, and some of the arena maps are a little too close quarters for my taste.

Crispy

My verdict:

<b>The good:</b>
- Actually quite fun, but then again I like the added tension of Counter-Strike.
- A gamemode that suits small teams and scales up surprisingly well.
- The team auto-balance system is inspired, and usually works well.
- The maps are all very strong. I can't find any overpowered tactics (probably because the rounds are so short)
- 'Last man standing' spectacles are great to watch, and play.
- Teamwork seems more rewarding when the stakes are so high.

<b>The bad:</b>
- Crits just shouldn't be in this game mode. End of.
- Rounds are too short. The map always ends before you get into it.
- Destroys the already-established, near-perfect balance between the classes. There is no use for some classes in this game mode.
- I'm still going to say this mode promotes camping, I just don't think enough people have tried it out enough to prove that works.
- I don't play TF2 to sit out of a round because my team lost. Losing is punishment enough.
- All maps need a bit of water near the centre because Pyros can be a bit overpowered in the end game.

---
In TF2 there are 9 classes that all 'rock-paper-scissors' eachother in a fine-tuned balance. Arena is however balanced for 8 v 8, so it's impossible to have a player as every class on a team. That's the first sign Arena is a bit ill-thought out. One class per team is always never used because of the default team limits. The second is that certain classes perform way better than others in this mode. Medics with Soldiers, Heavies and Pyros are all very strong in Arena, moreso than in normal TF2.

Engies are laughable, their level 1 sentries only do chip damage to a good player. Their weapons are averagely powerful and the dispenser is the only advantage, but it's only good if your team's going to camp it out, which makes for a boring spectacle. A Medic is twice any Engy on your team. Teleporters as a feature of the class are totally useless in this game mode.

Spies are very useful until it comes to capping the point. They demolish Snipers and they can remove key targets like Medics and Heavies. But come the final showdown they are as useful as an Engy, maybe less since at least an Engy will probably have full health by this point if he's still alive and can always get more.

I'm not going to say the Sniper is weak in this mode, but it relies heavily on other people doing their job at spychecking and watching your back, and you can almost never count on this in Arena. Theoretically it's very powerful, but you need to know you're in a safe spot if you want to get those headshots. Close-range snapshots don't mean as much if nobody else is backing you up with a pistol or a shotgun. Badlands is the only map where you don't have to rely on this as much, but the spots you can snipe from are usually very quiet so nobody wants to stick around there to watch your back.

---
The short round times and no respawns thing is a bit of a Catch 22. If the rounds were longer the respawn times would be even longer, but right now you don't really get enough time on the map to get your teeth into the experience. Counter-Strike worked better because it was something you could get into, but I don't think most TF2 players are actually fans of CS's plodding game style.

What really pisses me off is being told that I can't play the game I bought because someone on my team lost a round or because some random joined the server. You shouldn't be punished so severely. Sure, call me a loser and give the other team a +1, but don't take away the game you want me to play. That's just stupid and wrong on fundamental levels. Another player joined the server! Yay, more people have come to play TF2. We like more people playing this game, don't we? Oh wait now I'm just allowed to watch. Arena mode. Yay.

---
I was very dubious of this mode but I haven't been totally convinced it's crap. The maps themselves are very good and have massive replayability. It has some flaws but, even if these are ironed out, at the core you still have a watered-down game mode which is too short to be considered a good deathmatch and too deathmatchy to be a good use of TF2's classes. It's a half breed of a game mode. Mixed in with TF2 it's not too bad, but on its own it would be pretty unsatisfying. TF2's other modes prop this up and let it get away with the fact it's not really as entertaining as it should be, coming from Valve.

ANeM

<!--quoteo(post=1686366:date=Aug 21 2008, 05:48 AM:name=Thansal)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Thansal @ Aug 21 2008, 05:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686366"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is why I use the vampire gun. RUNAWAY! (and get some HP out of the deal!)
Then you would HATE me!

Arena games are too short to get a full ubercharge going, thus making the Kritz (with its faster charging) PERFECT for Arena!

True, if you find the fights are going longer, then the actual uber is better, but the Kritz can come in at just the right time often <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO the kritzkrieg is fine in arenas.. I mean, it requires charging and proper deployment, its part of a class and theres nothing wrong with it. I think the problem people have is with random crits.. which really don't belong in arena :x

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1686661:date=Aug 26 2008, 05:40 AM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crispy @ Aug 26 2008, 05:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686661"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What really pisses me off is being told that I can't play the game I bought because someone on my team lost a round or because some random joined the server. You shouldn't be punished so severely. Sure, call me a loser and give the other team a +1, but don't take away the game you want me to play. That's just stupid and wrong on fundamental levels. Another player joined the server! Yay, more people have come to play TF2. We like more people playing this game, don't we? Oh wait now I'm just allowed to watch. Arena mode. Yay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I completely agree and I hope Valve comes to realize this a whole lot sooner than they realized the +50hp of the backburner was overpowered.

Thansal

<!--quoteo(post=1686665:date=Aug 26 2008, 06:51 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Psyke @ Aug 26 2008, 06:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1686665"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I completely agree and I hope Valve comes to realize this a whole lot sooner than they realized the +50hp of the backburner was overpowered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed

From what little I have gotten to play (my computer is busted), I love the game mode, but don't think it should be in most servers' rotations due to the sit out factor.

My main server at this point is a 24 man server, which means that a good portion of a full server WILL sit out each round because the teams (unless they fixed it so that a max of one person should ever sit out a round, but I found it capping the teams at 7 or 8 normally).

As it stands they really should just switch over to auto balancing teams each round, with one team possibly having a 1 player advantage.

However I will chip in and back up <b>Crispy</b> on the notion of camping.

It works FAR to well on certain maps.

If the engie can get to one of the ammo dumps he can set up overlooking the CP and rack up the kills (or just cap the point), especially during smaller games (nothing worse then finding out that the one person left is en engie with a turret and you went pyro).

I have major issues with winning for winning's sake, as I play for the sake of fun and nothing else, and thus find camping to be just about the worst thing you can do, it is enough to make me rage quit a server.


meh, I wish my computer worked ;(

X_Stickman

Haven't played the arena maps, because of... well, I like TF2. I like respawning. I don't like sitting out of rounds. It just doesn't appeal to me, at all.

I DO, however, greatly enjoy the new payload map. It's enjoyable, and I can see it getting better once people actually learn the map better (goldrush kinda sucked for a bit until people learned good set up and ambush points). cp_steel is also fun, but getting lost with monkfish for over 2 minutes (seriously, two minutes of a pyro and a medic running around a map doing *nothing at all* because we kept finding locked doors) was just plain embarassing.

Align

Yeah, steel takes som playing to navigate. Needs more of those handy signs pointing to the nearest cap points. The small +B tacked onto some of them that ARE there are easy to miss.

Crispy

Annoying that I completely forgot about Steel and none of the servers I played on had it in the cycle for a whole 16 hours of playtime.

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My main server at this point is a 24 man server, which means that a good portion of a full server WILL sit out each round because the teams (unless they fixed it so that a max of one person should ever sit out a round, but I found it capping the teams at 7 or 8 normally).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Find a server with the plugin that fixes this. It doesn't fix the odd player # sit out thing though.

Arena scales well for larger teams (thanks to the solid map design) so it's strange that Valve don't think we should be allowed to have more than 8 players per team on it.

SentrySteve

I think Steel is pretty solid, I like the design.

I think Arena would be much better served if it there was some kind of battle.net like setup (<a href="http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/gameservices.php" target="_blank">possibly like this? see matchmaking</a>) where there was a way to have matchmaking outside of the game. For example, a set team of 5 guys versus another set team of 5 guys would play to win 3 out of 5 maps -- to win a map you must win 4 out of 7 rounds -- something like that. Throw in some kind of ranking and there could be a nice competitive edge to it.

That said, Crispy was certainly right when he pointed out how weak some classes are specially the sniper and engy. I'd like to think I'm fairly skilled with the sniper class, far more than the average player as that's what I've sunk most of my time into, but even I'm having trouble finding suitable spots to take shots. On Granary there are some pixel shots and if you maneuver correctly you have more options -- same for badlands. Ravine however has so much cover/is so twisted up that certain classes (pyro) have natural advantages while other classes (sniper/engy) get screwed. Lumberyard is similar, allowing a sniper to only have one shot before the target can close the distance and provide problems. For some odd reason, I have yet to play arena_well, but I'd assume it takes place over the train crossing without providing access to the double-story windowed buildings that each side normally has.

At least a decent sniper, or someone having a good day, can still produce results. It's just harder. An engy on the other hand is completely worthless aside from the dispenser he can put down.

Oh, and most importantly, Arena would be 10x better on pubs if server admins who ran arena didn't cap the players at 24. It makes no sense. 16 should be the highest, if not caps of 10, 12, or 14.

Svenpa

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLe8lg9G0c" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SLe8lg9G0c</a>

I had no idea the handgun taunt had a long range <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" />

lolfighter

Me neither. Need to figure out if this is for real.

Monkfish

Arena needs to go sit in the corner with all the other tf2 needs to be more cs like-tourney###### crowd. Leave them out of the real tf2 servers and just have them on their own.

Kouji_San

TFC nades anyone? Team Fortress 2 Diceroll server...

<a href="http://www.tf2nades.com/plugin.html" target="_blank">http://www.tf2nades.com/plugin.html</a>

Haven't gone on the server yet, but perhaps some people like it (seems quite unbalanced atm judging from the video's), but yeah weren't the tfc nades unbalanced as well (nadespam much). Or am I setting my self up for a hit 'n run <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />

TychoCelchuuu

<!--quoteo(post=1687021:date=Aug 31 2008, 12:59 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Kouji_San @ Aug 31 2008, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687021"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TFC nades anyone? Team Fortress 2 Diceroll server...

<a href="http://www.tf2nades.com/plugin.html" target="_blank">http://www.tf2nades.com/plugin.html</a>

Haven't gone on the server yet, but perhaps some people like it (seems quite unbalanced atm judging from the video's), but yeah weren't the tfc nades unbalanced as well (nadespam much). Or am I setting my self up for a hit 'n run <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Looks kind of neat, although grenade spam could quickly become intolerable.

lolfighter

Looks kind of awful because grenade spam would quickly become intolerable.

Geminosity

I don't miss the TFC grenades one bit. Keep them out of my game! XD

Now if only we could get rid of those silly random crits =P