redesigned fade blink
douchebagatron
Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">continued from alien leap thread</div>we discussed this a little in the other thread, but the gist of the idea is that instead of the current alien blink, it would work more like the portal gun in portal.
there are a lot of details to work out, but the basic problems present are that it could cause slowdowns from rendering 2 different parts of already large maps. this could be solved by not rendering the stuff on the other side of the portal and having a different method
the method i propose is this:
there would be a gateway room type idea, so instead of stepping immediately into one wall and out of another it would be a little slower and there would be a little travel area in between. you wont be able to stay in this travel area, its more of just a place you go before you come out the other portal.
also the portals are only used by the fade that created them, and arent visible until the fade is entering or exiting them. they are visible to the fade by some marker, or perhaps to the entire alien team in some way, but not to the marines. this would probably take a substantial amount of adrenaline to enter or create one, im not exactly sure.
i didnt come up with this idea, i just wanted an alternative to blink. this thread was created to expand on the idea present in <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103570&st=0&#entry1666675" target="_blank">this</a> thread.
there are a lot of details to work out, but the basic problems present are that it could cause slowdowns from rendering 2 different parts of already large maps. this could be solved by not rendering the stuff on the other side of the portal and having a different method
the method i propose is this:
there would be a gateway room type idea, so instead of stepping immediately into one wall and out of another it would be a little slower and there would be a little travel area in between. you wont be able to stay in this travel area, its more of just a place you go before you come out the other portal.
also the portals are only used by the fade that created them, and arent visible until the fade is entering or exiting them. they are visible to the fade by some marker, or perhaps to the entire alien team in some way, but not to the marines. this would probably take a substantial amount of adrenaline to enter or create one, im not exactly sure.
i didnt come up with this idea, i just wanted an alternative to blink. this thread was created to expand on the idea present in <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103570&st=0&#entry1666675" target="_blank">this</a> thread.
Comments
1) Don't bother rendering anything of what is seen on the other side of the portal, the Fade should know where they shot the other end at. If its not too costly in performance, render it just so it looks cool to the fade. All a Fade really needs to know is where they put the two portals, entrance / exit, which could just look like a glowing outline of fade or something that looks appropriate for a Kharaa life form only to see and be intuitive as to its purpose for the player.
2) Have it only seen and accessible by the fade. Others will just see a fade "fading" into the wall and if they get lucky, fading out of the wall where the fade put the exit. Any other player trying to use the "fading" entrance or exit ends up running into the wall, which is all they see anyways.
The cost in life form adrenaline is open to balance, but I think it would be good to make sure there is enough to shoot off like one entrance, then the exit, and then one more of either before running out of juice.
*Blink* "Where did that fade go? Oh crap, its behind us!" - Bunch of Marines getting the nanites scared out of them by seeing a fade escape from them and then coming up behind them... Other possibilities include being really sneaky or even using gravity to have a kind of leap brought on by well timed and placed entrances and exits, as seen in some puzzles in the game Portal.
Other thoughts on Fade blink changes has been having them turn incorporeal so they "fade" through objects, apparently this is kind of how they worked in early versions of Natural Selection but apparently that encountered issues with Fades getting stuck in walls or something.
If you wanted a "pause" for anyone phasing through, then just create a second room in the map where you phase into, then once in the room the game auto phases you through to the destination sopt, giving the effect of a pause. That is basically what they did with the "Stargate" map in NS1, but the rooms texture was moving, which gives the illusion of flying through the stars. *shrug* Doesn't sound so hard since it has already been done, but then again, Im no programmer <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> hehe Could suck!
i have a idea that spuk in my mind by the first time i blinkt
then i look this <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whe8xOWjGb8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whe8xOWjGb8</a>
at the end you see he morph to a cloud of blood to move faster
i think the fade morph to this cloud and move extremly fast in this status
he can by killed by shooting the cloud (the cloud is really hard to see)
he can only morph back when enough room is for his body
he cant attack and have lower hp in that status
he can as cloud go through buildings and marines but that hurt him
but its only for few seconds
also it have a slow regeneration ( but its not gameplay neccessery , its only for few seconds)
It just wouldn't be the fade anymore... the fade would lose its appeal, and its power - besides, why would the fade 'evolve' (since it's been a few years since NS1) to use something *weaker*?
I can see this 'pg' kind of ability reserved for like, a secondary fire ability though. I liked the idea of 'blinking' *behind* the marines. How edgy would that be.. I don't understand how it would work though, you'd set the 'portals' in advance?
Also, they wanted to keep aliens and marines different, so they're having tubes/canals for rapid movement (rather than PG), and it was discussed that the entrances/exits would be like what's in portal (with a middle-room), and the space would be somewhat distorted within the alien canal, so if you were to run a short straight from entrance to exit, you could end up perhaps on the other side of the map, at an angle (I reckon it would be cool if you walked into a 'wall' entrance, and fell out of the ceiling 'exit').
i dont will change the ability, only the effect
that its look like teleportation
and i dont think that that make him "weaker"
now you cant attack too when you blink
example
you see a marine alone in a corridor
you press r
you fly like blink now (ns1) to the marine, but you look like a small cloud blood and materie ( and you are faster as in NS1)
you blink though the marine, you lose 20 hp, but you stand behind him
if somthing behind the rine that block (like a building) you lose again hp and need to blink again to a open location
maybe you can use regen ( the abilite ) while blink
<!--quoteo(post=1666658:date=Jan 7 2008, 02:55 PM:name=Mapster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mapster @ Jan 7 2008, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666658"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh please... would you all really think that the developers would take the weapon out of another game and put it into theirs when they will be making their game cost to buy?
The guys that think this sort of stuff up want to be creative, not well; innovative?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1666675:date=Jan 7 2008, 05:09 PM:name=Buzzou)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Buzzou @ Jan 7 2008, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666675"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->any new player that played the game would instantly think "those cheapskates! they stole portal's gun" and accuse them of plagerism. i'm sure the last thing the dev's want, is the impression that they've copied another game. they want NS2 to be groundbreaking in its own right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1666733:date=Jan 8 2008, 06:27 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 8 2008, 06:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666733"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that's a double edged sword. Some players will say "Man, why didn't they implement blink like Portal? That was so cool and it can all ready be done on the source engine," If blink is something different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1666752:date=Jan 8 2008, 09:22 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 8 2008, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666752"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I -really- don't think -most- people would think that. Seriously.
What's the discussion here anyway? Are we trying to power down the fade? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":(" border="0" alt="sad-fix.gif" /> why?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With a few tweaks as suggested, this could very easily make Fades more powerful in the right hands.
And, again, with the right tweaks, it isn't stealing anything, its learning from someone else's successes.
Would we have all game play innovation done away with in games just because some other game has done it before?
I suppose there are those who don't want physics in NS2 because that has been done before? Or perhaps other parts of it, inspired by say, what many liked to claim it was ripping off, Starcraft. I have to say "BS", Natural Selection doesn't rip anything off, if anything it came before other FPS / RTS hybrids, like Savage and Battlefield - other games are ripping off a mod, for pete's sake.
So, I just don't buy into the ripping off argument, either you implement game play well or you don't, its as plain as that.
As it plays now, the Fade is like being a leaping skulk with a more powerful bite and no wall stick / walking. If you really want to make playing the Fade different than the Skulk, one or the other needs to change, and right now I see the opportunity for the Fade to change in some very positive ways, closer to the Natural Selection's original implementation of the Fade with fewer bugs.
For the fade, maybe his arms dissapear and the screen has a little green tint/glow in it.
For other though, the fade could either fade out or turn into some kind of purple energy ball/gas/mist whatever, or even look like predator when he is using his stealth suit, visible but only barely. Making it appear as though the fade is popping in and out of the air hitting you, then dissapearing again, very scary stuff.
And the portal technology along side the normal blink would be very cool. And I really like how you suggested it, I don't think I would change a thing. And about the whole plaigerism thing... NS2 is using the half-life 2 engine, its only natural that something like the portal gun ( Obviously it wouldn't be a fade holding a portal gun ) would appear in a game like NS2.
what i dont understand is how do this "portal" (not the game) help the fade to attack marines?
when you put it on the wall ,how help this?
when you make a portal right for you and make a another by the enemy , what is different to the blink now, eccept it make it harder to
by done right?
i think that the blink need somthing new that it feel right , like a teleportation or somthing others like i suggest above
and not like leaping
@ wyattx3 do you mean my cloud idea for secondary attack? when yes then must it cost mutch more adrenaline and he must be invisible
that do i mean whit the cloud.
i think a red cloud looks cooler and more organically then a slowly fade out.
mayby you need 1 or 2 seconds to morph back to the corpse
in this time you look like a fade in half. and you can attack
that was so cool
it would really add in the ambush factor, for a couple fades to set up portal traps in a hallway, then have a skulk watch the hallway until a group of marines is walking down it, then 2 fades just leap out of the wall and kill the marines before they know what hit them. it would incorporate teamwork so the fade knows when to go through the portals and whats on the other side, and it would balance the playing field a little more than the current blink does. with the current blink if someone gets really good at using it then they are unstoppable as a fade, and the game becomes less fun for the other team, with this the fade is still counterable with tactics, suck as blocking the portal or finding the other exit.
This new portal-gun blink would make ambushing marines slightly easier than the current blink (unless you're using Silence, then they'd be about the same).
But its not the ambush that kills the fade. Frankly, most fades get a swipe in before the marine has a chance to shoot anyways.
Its what comes next that makes the current blink so awesome, and this proposed blink useless. The current blink allows the fade to fly up, around, and back down for another swipe. The proposed blink would require a wall (or floor? ew to animation) right next to the marine. And even then, using Portal's gun mechanics, it would bring the fade to the last portal he used, i.e. the one he first used to ambush the marine. Meaning he'd take his sweet time trying to escape.
Ixnay on the idea of the changing the blinknay.
it would strengthen the fade when used with teamwork and weaken a lone rambo fade, and by doing that you make the game more immersive and exciting for all players, not just the fade.
i still dont like the portal idea
think about when more as 2 fades use the portal
it was a lag party
whit the portal its not blink or teleportation, its a portal
i suggest my idea above as secondary attack (or as 4. hive abilite )
let blink alone
and this topic called "redisign" not new abillites for fade
(and offcourse the portal open new ways to exploit this feature)
Check out post 2 and 11:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=99066" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....showtopic=99066</a>
I suggested it in addition to blink though, because I think blink should stay.
Sure, it's difficult to learn, but it's a lot of fun too many players, too.
The suggestion in post 11, to make it sort of an alien phasegate, was mainly directed at the hit and run playstyle of the aliens and to give a powerful support weapon to finnish off marines.
Since the introduction of the tube idea regarding DI, I don't think the suggestions are going to make it, because tubes are probably going to work in a similar way and there is no need for an additional weapon.
This new portal-gun blink would make ambushing marines slightly easier than the current blink (unless you're using Silence, then they'd be about the same).
But its not the ambush that kills the fade. Frankly, most fades get a swipe in before the marine has a chance to shoot anyways.
Its what comes next that makes the current blink so awesome, and this proposed blink useless. The current blink allows the fade to fly up, around, and back down for another swipe. The proposed blink would require a wall (or floor? ew to animation) right next to the marine. And even then, using Portal's gun mechanics, it would bring the fade to the last portal he used, i.e. the one he first used to ambush the marine. Meaning he'd take his sweet time trying to escape.
Ixnay on the idea of the changing the blinknay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have a good point. This doesn't prevent the fade from have both in some form. I think two portals anywhere maybe too much, for reasons previously discussed. What if the fade walked through walls as a secondary fire. Obviously some walls would have to be non-fade-able(outside walls of the ship for instance). This would be more like a no-clip than a portal though. The portal graphics could still be used.
1. swipe + secondary attack
2. blink normal + as sec. my cloud (use 25% adrenaline)
3. carapace
4. this can be a trough-wall-walk
or
4.b this support pg-portal ( post 11 at the other tread) (i think its better for the lerk as for fade)
when number 4.b go to the lerk, what make him much more to a supporter
(lerk make a invisible portal at back from marines to allow the group skulk a better ambush angle)
ps: now i understand the portal as support "weapon"
i don't know if these have been addressed yet?
<!--quoteo(post=1666748:date=Jan 8 2008, 11:09 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Jan 8 2008, 11:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666748"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->besides, why would the fade 'evolve' (since it's been a few years since NS1) to use something *weaker*?
I can see this 'pg' kind of ability reserved for like, a secondary fire ability though. I liked the idea of 'blinking' *behind* the marines. How edgy would that be.. I don't understand how it would work though, <b>you'd set the 'portals' in advance?</b>
<i>Also, they wanted to keep aliens and marines different, so they're having tubes/canals for rapid movement (rather than PG), and it was discussed that the entrances/exits would be like what's in portal (with a middle-room), and the space would be somewhat distorted within the alien canal, so if you were to run a short straight from entrance to exit, you could end up perhaps on the other side of the map, at an angle (I reckon it would be cool if you walked into a 'wall' entrance, and fell out of the ceiling 'exit').</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>this</b> has been answered by 6john: Yes. - to which i'd say... :/ that's lame.
<i>this</i> idea was better expressed:
<!--quoteo(post=1666866:date=Jan 9 2008, 08:56 PM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(pSyk0mAn @ Jan 9 2008, 08:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666866"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Regarding the fade-o-portal I suggested this idea like 13 month ago <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /> <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
(...)
Since the introduction of the tube idea regarding DI, I don't think the suggestions are going to make it, because tubes are probably going to work in a similar way and there is no need for an additional weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and I agree completely.
blink as a 'portal' type of thing, doesn't really work, imo, because the pace is way too slow, compared to the 'leap' system currently (or the teleport system, probably). and it'd just be like... setting up a trap or an ambush PRIOR? for the assault-focused fade? it just doesn't feel right to me. it'd be a huge difference to the current fade.
i reckon blink should be teleport. pretty much. (like in the earlier versions?) as long as it could be decently implemented. i reckon it'd be really cool, blinking behind a group of marines, and then cutting them down from behind. ouch.
adding to that, i think secondary fire for blink (assuming you have a primary ability/secondary ability setup, rather than a lifeform/special ability setup) should be 'blinking' out of existence for two seconds or so, but look exactly the same as regular blink (to other people), so marines won't know whether the fade's disappeared or has teleported right behind them.
I agree with stix, and I think he summarises it better:
<!--quoteo(post=1666787:date=Jan 9 2008, 05:30 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Jan 9 2008, 05:30 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666787"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Fades would be infinitely easier to kill like this, if the current blink wasn't still part of the equation.
This new portal-gun blink would make ambushing marines slightly easier than the current blink (unless you're using Silence, then they'd be about the same).
But its not the ambush that kills the fade. Frankly, most fades get a swipe in before the marine has a chance to shoot anyways.
Its what comes next that makes the current blink so awesome, and this proposed blink useless. The current blink allows the fade to fly up, around, and back down for another swipe. The proposed blink would require a wall (or floor? ew to animation) right next to the marine. And even then, using Portal's gun mechanics, it would bring the fade to the last portal he used, i.e. the one he first used to ambush the marine. Meaning he'd take his sweet time trying to escape.
Ixnay on the idea of the changing the blinknay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
and BCseph makes a good point (about the tele):
<!--quoteo(post=1666790:date=Jan 9 2008, 06:12 AM:name=BCSeph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BCSeph @ Jan 9 2008, 06:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IF you guys remember how fades were in 2.0, that was alot of fun. Sure, it was harder, but when used right, it was the coolest part of the game. Maybe of you could give fades their teleport ability back where you teleport to the wall you're facing (except turned around so you dont have to turn yourself) and leave them with the current blink ability so you dont see fades bunnyhopping like they did in 2.0. To balance this, give them less armor/carapace to make them have to be more mobile.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1666841:date=Jan 9 2008, 04:22 PM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Jan 9 2008, 04:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Or, they could just lower the speed at which the fade propels at, and make it work in slower intervals similar to how leap works, not instantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, how would that be *blink* then?
<!--quoteo(post=1666874:date=Jan 9 2008, 10:09 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jan 9 2008, 10:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What if the fade walked through walls as a secondary fire. Obviously some walls would have to be non-fade-able(outside walls of the ship for instance). This would be more like a no-clip than a portal though. The portal graphics could still be used.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd thought of this too. But I dunno..... I don't think it'd be very balanced. I could see it being slightly overpowered (fade into the wall, fade out kill a marine, fade again), too glitchy (getting to the other side of the map, bypassing obstacles and defenses, by fading through walls?) or possibly not very useful (you'd fade into the walls, wouldn't be able to attack, marines fire at you as you fade out, you fade back in to avoid fire, etc.).
What it was, is almost keeping the entire blink the way it is now. However, only cosmetically changing how people see it. I love how blink plays as a fade, very entertaining, and it does take a level of skill that is attainable by newer players once they know how to do it. However, fades look pretty retarded when your viewing them blink, flying around with their arms stretched out. It doesn't suit the word "Blink" at all.
Specifically, the fade in first person view would see his arms dissapear, and would either turn completely invisible, become a cloud of gas or something else. Ill lead that kind of discussion to people with a better imagination.
And marines and other players viewing the fade would be unable to attack the fade, until he comes out of his blink to attack. However, there would be a visible trail for the mariens to follow to either dodge the fades attacks or get ready to open fire when he comes out of his blink.
Visually, it would appear as though the fade is literally fading in and out, or blinking in and out of combat, however for gameplay it would be very very similar.
------------------------------------------------------------
As for the portal idea, the reason I really like this idea is I think of the fact you could put down one portal in your hive, and then use another in combat and you can go in and out of combat with it. Or, if marines are walking down a hallway, you could stick two portals in either side or the ceiling and go in and out thrashing the marines as they watch you go in and out of the walls.
However, even though I really like this idea, Blink has to be apart of it, otherwise fade will never be the same.
<!--quoteo(post=1666755:date=Jan 8 2008, 03:53 PM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 8 2008, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i mean now looks like that the fade fly whit a strange sound (ns1)
<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->i will not change the ability, only the effect<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
example
you see a marine alone in a corridor
you press r
you<!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro--> fly like blink now (ns1)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> to the marine, <!--coloro:#FF0000--><span style="color:#FF0000"><!--/coloro-->but you look<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> like a small cloud blood and materie ( and you are faster as in NS1)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1666755:date=Jan 8 2008, 03:53 PM:name=darktimes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 8 2008, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->you blink though the marine, you lose 20 hp, but you stand behind him
if somthing behind the rine that block (like a building) you lose again hp and need to blink again to a open location
maybe you can use metrobolize while blink<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the cloud dont change the use or the skill whats needed. only a cosmetic change
all this stuff whit "go through" make him only better and it would be cool when it was implemented
when you want can you only use the new effect
and you sayd
"...become a cloud of gas or something else."
i mean what he become is unimportantly
And it would leave the fade still open to attack. If the fade turned into a cloud of dust or whatever, i'm assuming he couldnt be hit until he stopped blinking. Thats a pretty big upgrade over the current blink. And fades dont need an upgrade.
we only suggest here.
hmm.. forgott my suggest
_____________
i do only play 3.2b
how its was in 2.0 or other versions do i dont know
that suggest that you teleport to that place that you face is not bad
but i think that improve him again, maybe you need a half sec to start teleport
and you do not really teleport, you fly only 7 times faster as now and stop automatic at that point
You could make the fade be more like the spy in TF2. Have an ability where the fade has active camouflage similar to the predator and make him more of a stalking alien. Make his current running speed slightly faster but make him more of an ambushing alien. It would help the newer players because it takes a lot of finesse to be good at the current fade blinking. If we still want to keep a blink like ability give him a charge that would allow him to move significantly faster (but uncloak him).
The great thing about making a new game is that the devs don't have to keep things the way they were before. There is a lot of freedom to try to improve playability (and profitability).
You could make the fade be more like the spy in TF2. Have an ability where the fade has active camouflage similar to the predator and make him more of a stalking alien. Make his current running speed slightly faster but make him more of an ambushing alien. It would help the newer players because it takes a lot of finesse to be good at the current fade blinking. If we still want to keep a blink like ability give him a charge that would allow him to move significantly faster (but uncloak him).
The great thing about making a new game is that the devs don't have to keep things the way they were before. There is a lot of freedom to try to improve playability (and profitability).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, things don't have to stay the same, previous NS1 implementation was constructed under different constraints than will be faced in constructing NS2 implementations.
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There is something I get the sense is not getting across by the use of the portal gun, it does not have to look anything like the portal gun or even serve the same purpose. Rather, call it the Fade Ability.
Yes, it does seem similar to the Kharaa Tunnel of Love, but with some very important differences:
1) Only the Fade who shoots it can use it
2) It is not possible to see through it
3) Only the Fade who shoots it sees it
That last part could be anything, it could be a big A and big B for all I care, just as long as it looks like the Fade goes into a wall, floor, or whatever it is possible for the Fade to put it on and comes out a wall, floor, ceiling, whatever...
The experience for other players watching the Fade would look like the Fade just moves into a wall and disappears ... and comes back out wherever, should the on lookers be lucky enough to know where that Fade put the exit.
This is not the exact single player implementation of the portal gun or the tunnels the devs talked about.
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The fade becoming incorporeal sounds cool too, this would be the Fade becomes a ghost of sorts, like the Twins in The Matrix (2) Reloaded? Or the big bad guy in The Chronicles of Rid######? The way it looks for the Houdini Splicer looked good too.
Yes, it has been brought up before, just as the inspiration from the Portal has been, but with any cool ideas why not bring it up again? If I think something is cool, I would feel better knowing that others, especially the Developers, know about it.
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The only thing I don't like is the current way Fades *blink*. I'm sorry but they do not blink, they fly-leap until they run out of energy aka adrenaline but they don't get to glide like the Lerk or stick to surfaces like the leaping Skulk. Seems like two other life forms do what it does already only without the hit points / armor. Also, its not scary in the least, any more than a Marine bunny hopping looks scary, but this just my humble opinion. Leaping skulks giving me a face full of teeth have given be far more moments that made me startle.
Seriously, who here has played a skulk leaping around? Its only difference from the Fade is the Fade has more hit points and the skulk is harder to run a block on. As a leaping skulk, you still ideally try to flank and get behind to not get hit, you still try to know the exits and leap for them after zipping in, and you still get around fast according to your energy levels, if not more so. Throw silence and adrenaline on that skulk, and in the right hands *coff*[OldF]CovertBeaver*coff* they just rack up the kills even faster than a Fade.
The Fade really needs something better to do and be seen doing. Actually, does anyone have any video of what the Fade blink looked like before version 2.0? I would really like to see that in action, so far I have only read about it.
And it would leave the fade still open to attack. If the fade turned into a cloud of dust or whatever, i'm assuming he couldnt be hit until he stopped blinking. Thats a pretty big upgrade over the current blink. And fades dont need an upgrade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Keep it how it is now and just name the blink ability something else. Problems solved.
Uh, how is blink in its current form *blink*? Flying like a retard = teleporting?
Now that i think about it, the ability should be axed and replaced with something similar to how blink used to be, <b>but give it limits and restraints</b>.
Blink, to me, refers to moving in the blink of an eye. Why not try an an approach to blink in which the fade travels ##feet instantly, not from current position to cross hair location. Of course this would have to have restraints regarding walls/roofs and would need to have some kind of cooldown on the ability use, otherwise the fades would get stuck like they used to, and would be too invulnerable if they could teleport with nothing holding them back.
Edit: Or even better. Why not just replace the Fades blink ability with something similar to the xmenu upgrade called 'Ethereal Shift'. It fits the mold of the Fade (its name states otherwise) and actually makes sense in a way.. I'm sure something similar to this has been stated before but in a different context.
<i>The fade temporarily shifts out of the physical plane and enters the ethereal plane of existence for a second or two, in which they gain something close to 99% invisibility, faster movement and reduced gravity. Give it a cooldown so it can't be spammed and make the fade return visible when they break it with an attack.</i>
It would be a hell of a lot easier to put to practice than teleporting.
Exactly. It <b>isn't</b>. But your previous suggestion was to make it even <b>slower</b>.
Blink is only <b>leap</b> currently because the original 'blink' had a lot of issues, and that was the closest thing they could get to a teleport. It was a mod, after all, quality and realism (within the context of the universe) didn't matter as much as it does now.
I want proper teleportation, (and again, I like BCseph's idea for the implementation) so I like the ideas in the rest of your post.
<!--quoteo(post=1666935:date=Jan 10 2008, 07:18 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Jan 10 2008, 07:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1666935"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Fade really needs something better to do and be seen doing. Actually, does anyone have any video of what the Fade blink looked like before version 2.0? I would really like to see that in action, so far I have only read about it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
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<b>Ideas that have been discussed so far for "blink", or a new ability for the fade, or a secondary fire for "blink" (I may be missing a few):</b>
For any 'blink' or 'fade' ability, the fade is seen as 'fading' in (to a wall, for example) or out (of existence, for example).
Keeping the 'leap' as it is.
Keeping the 'leap', making a purely cosmetic change.
*Keeping the 'leap', but making it slower.
Removing the 'leap', bringing back teleportation.
With teleportation, move x number of feet in front of you (instantly).
With teleportation, move to the wall your crosshair is facing (original implementation?)
With teleportation and moving to the wall your crosshair is facing, automatically 'turning' yourself so that you don't face the wall. (either your back faces the wall, or you face the way you came)
Entering an "ethereal" plane as opposed to being in the physical plane. ie. being able to "fade" through walls and models and obstacles etc.
Blinking out of existence for a short time. (most often discussed as a secondary)
Blinking out of the physical plane for a short time.
With blinking out of the physical plane, near-perfect invisibility, faster movement, lower gravity, entering the ethereal plane.
**A <i>Portal</i>-like ability.
*This idea I don't like for reasons already discussed.
** This idea I don't like, not so much because it rips <i>Portal</i> off, but because it doesn't offer anything particularly 'special', when you've already got <i>Kharaa Tunnels of Love</i> for the entire alien team. And also because it slows down the gameplay for the fade. They become less assault and more ambush. You might argue that that's a good thing, but for the fade I think that's bad. I'm taking into account that the devs have said they want faster games. (Though I think the current length is fine, and offers enough variety in terms of match length depending on map and players.)