Its all about a balance between atmosphere and gameplay.
If you look at current NS maps, there's a huge lack of doors. Yes, doors in areas such as eclipse MS are horrible, but some of the ones in Nancy are great (though theres too many).
What if this concept was implemented, but mappers were explained to definitely not overdo it? Have maybe 2-3 in a map. That way you could keep the awesome atmospherics of welding doors closed, hearing aliens bash at em while your marines load up on your side, etc, but still maintain a generally better flow.
So here’s what I think: welding was the most underused aspect of NS, it should have been used more!
I think welding should be a big part of NS2, like whole maps where both teams have to open each door as they go, getting closer to each other (perhaps with alternative vents or smaller routes). Maps where two ships have collided and areas of the map are destroyed and broken up, with walkways that need fixing and stuff. There are soooo many things you can do with welding; it should become a massive part of NS2.
I think Gorges should also get a type of welder, something that will help aliens get through welded doors. It’s possibly the only way to really balance the idea. Maybe some kind of ‘acid glue’ stuff?
My thoughts on building barricades with junk found on maps: YES! This should happen, but only if both sides can do it and servers can take it.
The weld bot sounds cool! Who would control it? Would it be controlled at all? Would there be a structure of some kind that a team had to build? Would the bots have to return to these to get fixed? Or would they just be like a weapon, that flies around a player like the <a href="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marksman-H_training_remote" target="_blank">Marksman-H combat remote</a> that flies around you in JKII:Outcast?
<!--quoteo(post=1663608:date=Dec 11 2007, 01:36 PM:name=INKEDOUT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(INKEDOUT @ Dec 11 2007, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So here’s what I think: welding was the most underused aspect of NS, it should have been used more!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It already plays a critical role past the early stages of a game in repairing armor, so I wouldn't exactly call it underused.
I'll have to agree with Max on this welder issue. Granted, it is cool to have doors being welded only to have aliens on the other side trying to bash them open (deforming the door etc) But realistically, how often do you think that's going to happen. People think of all these crazy scenarios which are totally plausible but which occur in the rarest cases. It will become more of an annoyance eventually because it will be the same thing over and over again. (Aliens deforming the door and such, won't even feel epic anymore). I think the issue right now with the welder is that it takes too much effort for some people to take it out and run around welding stuff in base. I think the welder is fine in the NS right now, its the people that worry me. Someone mentioned using statistics to give people an incentive to weld stuff, I say you take it one level higher and implement a medal or achievement system (which I believe was also mentioned). Have achievements that have people weld for a certain time or hit-points. And to those of you yelling at me right now "everyone will be an achievement ###### running around with welders and not doing anything productive." The welder can never be underused, because "there is always something to weld". I think the system would work perfectly because it would mainly apply to newer NS players. Regulars will obviously get it within days or maybe hours, but newer players won't. This will give them an incentive to weld and observe the game play (killing 2 bird with one stone), by the time they'll get the achievement, they'll be adequately familiarized with the game will be well under-way on becoming a combatant marine, transferring his/her welding duties to someone newer than him. The learning curve is NS1 is steep right now and asking a newbie to go into the battle zone might be slightly overwhelming to him. It might actually make him quit playing the game altogether if he gets severely owned. The system would work spontaneously. Same system should be applied to building structures. Same motto "There is always something to build". If you play a lot, you probably have noticed that every time a round commences, all the regulars run off right away from base only leaving the "n00bs" to build, which is fine I think because again, it happens spontaneously, and it's only logical for newer players to do the "boring" stuff which I doubt they find boring anyways because they're still in the process of absorbing the game play information, and being fascinated by the game. Anyways, I think that welding should stick closer to it's original design with only slight modifications. Ideas like welding objects together might be too extreme. The weld-bot does sound good. I find it funny though because I think Charlie came up with that on the fly during the podcast, yet it lit a light bulb in everyone's head.
Just a side note about welders themselves. It seems like commanders don't give out welders early enough in the game which is probably when it matters the most or will in NS2. In my opinion, the welder should become a stock marine for weapons or a hand granade-like upgrade where once upgraded, forcing marines to constantly spawn with a new welder. Also, a lot of times people have welders without knowing that. Placing an icon in the right-bottom corner was a step forward, but I think more needs to be done to inform people, maybe a a quick HUD message (not necessarily in the center of the screen) saying that he picked up mines, welder, etc.
Also, Flayra, you're awesome, I really liked that post you made to counter "boring activities"
<!--quoteo(post=1663324:date=Dec 8 2007, 11:18 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Dec 8 2007, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The main thing I disagree with here is that NS has lots of boring activities. I agree that munching a RT can be tedious, but I think welding and building are high points of the game. These non-combat activities are there for the express purpose of having "down time". You can't have "up" time with out it! It also lets you catch your breath and recharge your batteries a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1663647:date=Dec 11 2007, 08:02 PM:name=cerberus5)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cerberus5 @ Dec 11 2007, 08:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'll have to agree with Max on this welder issue. Granted, it is cool to have doors being welded only to have aliens on the other side trying to bash them open (deforming the door etc) But realistically, how often do you think that's going to happen. People think of all these crazy scenarios which are totally plausible but which occur in the rarest cases. It will become more of an annoyance eventually because it will be the same thing over and over again. (Aliens deforming the door and such, won't even feel epic anymore).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to address this, to show that it is possible to make bashing doors open epic every time it happens.
Skulks: Do not bash doors, they bash/burst/leap vent covers to scare the bejesus out of marines who can't see them.
Gorges: Do not bash doors, they seal them open with infestation. Ugh, now we can't weld it shut, damn!
Lerks: Do not bash period, they send area effects through the vents covers which hide them. Damn, can't get that pesky lerk!
Fade: Their adamantium tough, razor sharp apendages have this nasty habit of ripping right through the door, a very nasty surprise for any on the other side, as it can still reach them with its attack.
Onos: A quick charge should have those pesky doors taken care of, add physics from HL2, mix, and turn those doors into a weapon where they were once a boon to the marines.
Onos, being what an Onos is, should be epic every time. It charges down a hall, flinging objects this way and that, destroying barriers and sending debri flying at dangerous break neck speeds towards the marines! With the force that only a charging Onos can muster, the doors become moot points and even hazardous.
For all involved who see the doors go flying away from an Onos or by their marines head, inches from certain serious harm, it will be epic indeed.
For an example of the possibilities, we need look no further than NS1. Who here remembers a certain door in nancy map that would lead to the mess hall? Remember that vent that sits right above it? Oh, and how the Kharaa would be waiting on all sides and even behind the table, for you and your buddies to charge in?
That is only peanuts compared to the fun that could be had with a properly implemented "weld vs bash". I have to side with Flayra on this one, IMHO, I think Max is in the wrong, this could be EPIC.
<b>Vote <u>Dynamic Infestation vs Dynamic Weld</u> today!</b>
<!--quoteo(post=1663672:date=Dec 11 2007, 11:30 PM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Dec 11 2007, 11:30 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663672"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're going to turn off a lot of players that see epic and terribad as synonymous.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I often see players relate epic and gaming goodness as synonymous. I like to call these experiences gamers have "wow" moments, because the player says "Holy ****, did you see that?!?" and goes and tells a friend about this crazy moment they had in a game. We had a number of them in NS1, why not want that for NS2? Many a time when a skulk surprised me and had me jump, many a time when an Onos was charging down a hall and marines would be all "Oh no! Onos!" and when you bring that Onos down, there would be cheers!
I want many a "wow" moment in NS2, and weld vs infestation if done right can provide that. Dynamic anything can provide that, it brings a bit of the "Unknown" into this "World" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1663689:date=Dec 12 2007, 04:15 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Dec 12 2007, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663689"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only problem, that door is on the wrong side of Mess for marines to be welding. Maybe it it was a door from mess -> cargo instead of ladders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its on the right side, it performs its purpose admirably.
<i>For an example of the possibilities, we need look no further than NS1. Who here remembers a certain door in nancy map that would lead to the mess hall? Remember that vent that sits right above it? Oh, and how the Kharaa would be waiting on all sides and even behind the table, for you and your buddies to charge in?</i>
What I am referring to is what happens with a door there, in later versions without the door, I can not honestly recall this scenario happening anymore.
Doors can create points of memorable, tense conflicts.
<!--quoteo(post=1663608:date=Dec 11 2007, 01:36 PM:name=INKEDOUT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(INKEDOUT @ Dec 11 2007, 01:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663608"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think Gorges should also get a type of welder, something that will help aliens get through welded doors. It’s possibly the only way to really balance the idea. Maybe some kind of ‘acid glue’ stuff?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want gorges to have some sort of weapon/ability whose purpose is specifically attacking doors/welds meaning things marines build? Should this acid glue thing be a blob that is flung out and splahes a little doing damage to what is around it? Should it not damage marines themselves? Should it be a 2nd hive ability? I hope you see where I'm going with this...
<!--quoteo(post=1663702:date=Dec 12 2007, 09:22 AM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Dec 12 2007, 09:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663702"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I often see players relate epic and gaming goodness as synonymous. I like to call these experiences gamers have "wow" moments, because the player says "Holy ****, did you see that?!?" and goes and tells a friend about this crazy moment they had in a game. We had a number of them in NS1, why not want that for NS2? Many a time when a skulk surprised me and had me jump, many a time when an Onos was charging down a hall and marines would be all "Oh no! Onos!" and when you bring that Onos down, there would be cheers!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or you're going to have players say wow, Holy ****, can you believe this game just lasted 1:45hr??? And it didn't even start off as a small game (like what happened on junktext yesterday). I left like 5-10 mins into the game, had dinner, came back and the game time was 50 mins, game didn't end for another hour.
Then you'll have people go tell their friends about how aliens had every node, marines were relocated to eq hive (ns_lost), marines could barely hold eq node, and yet the game dragged on and on and on even though aliens had 2 hives and nearly all res. The primary reason it was dragged out was that marines had seiges, turrets, electricity, and prototech in eq.
Long drawn out battles are great, when the winner is constantly changing back and forth. Taking an obvious alien victory and drawing it out for 1.5 hr was an epic waste.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1663706:date=Dec 12 2007, 09:55 AM:name=asmodee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(asmodee @ Dec 12 2007, 09:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663706"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Long drawn out battles are great, when the winner is constantly changing back and forth. Taking an obvious alien victory and drawing it out for 1.5 hr was an epic waste.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes and no. Some days I feel like playing the down and out marine and trying to take down as many as I can in a hopeless situation. Some days I just don't want to get stuck in a game like that. Regardless, there's no way to eliminate that type of game. Sometimes skill/experience levels are just matched up like that, and in a game where skill level and game knowledge are roughly equally important it's possible to get a team lacking one or the other and a slow death occurring.
Yeah, thats my main gripe with big servers. When the aliens take the third hive and get any PGs down, if the marines can't push out within about 30 seconds, most comms will start holding the fort at base. Recycle the Proto (and the PG if you really think you have no chance at a ninja), and drop all HMGs (with one GL, or more if you have tight exits).
14 marines can last for goddamn ever like that, especially on some maps or locations. Cargo Hive in Nothing is a perfect example of this; a reloc there lasted a good 20 minutes past their containment. We needed i think 6 oni to rush in (thank god we had DCs), with the fade going in first to distract, AND umbra. Even that barely made it.
Situations like this are what give extra warrant to the superclass discussions. If a class was made for Aliens that perhaps cost two people 100 res, and one 'drove', one 'gunned', and it had special end-game abilities, situations like that would be a lot more epic-fun than epic-lame.
Woops. CanadianWolverine, about the Mess Hall door. I understand what you mean about the vent; but realistically its a horrible example. If the same door and vent was from mess to cargo, and if the vent actually connect inside Mess as well as on the other side of the door, then it would probably be a perfect example. But right now, why the hell would marines weld a door between their Marine Start and a fairly central location? They'd want to weld the doors on the OUTSIDE of that. I.e., if aliens were about to push Mess, marines would weld the door while they waited for more guns to come in for defense, etc.
In such a situation, you WOULD see some cool gameplay (though hopefully the aliens wouldnt get rocked too bad... its not that often they get oni). All the more reason to make it a later-game feature.
I love the idea of dynamic welding, i.e. welding anything to anything. I realise this sandbox type approach creates so many variables as to make it virtually impossible to test every eventuality in a map, however I find that potential exciting as well. It's a concept that's easy to understand for experienced players and newbies alike, and is easily translated from marines to aliens (the marines weld and the alien gorges can glue stuff together).
When I started thinking about the concept of being able to weld anything to anything I immediatly thought of Lego Mindstorms. I know this puts this into a whole new league of complexity but was so cool I had to share it with everyone! Imagine as commander being able to create different components which can then be welded together by your team in many different ways. I envisaged the following scenarios: <ol type='1'><li>The commander builds a tripod, a turret and a scanner; these can then be welded together to form a basic automated turret. </li><li>The commander builds a mobile base (think small tank base with tracks) a simple AI (simple bot code already out there), scanner and turret; you then have the makings of a mobile automated turret which the commander can then set to patrol an area.</li><li>Alien gorges could build drones and glue on sensory and other nodes to replicate the above.</li><li>Alien gorges could produce a resource tower and glue on a DI node which would feed all the res generated by the node into creating DI around it, thus lowering the cost of building near it and supporting aliens close by.</li></ol> Basically the aliens and the marines have equivilents of all components and can glue them together in similar ways.
Obviously this means the tech tree becomes more of a tech bush very rapidly as you're able to combine and recombine components in different ways. The upside is that only a few key components need be provided initially as you would be able to combine these to form all the existing ones from NS1.
Another idea, instead of a welder which doesn't fit into the hi tech nanite enabled universe this is set in, how about a nanite gun. it would make more sense for clearing alien DI as well. Also if the marines are to have their own version of DI then marines could use the nanite gun to lay down trails of marine DI which the commander can then use. Again this also translates easily to the aliens where the gorges can do the same.
I've been a fan of NS from the very start and hope these ramblings make sense as it's my first post!
Welder does too fit. Much like the guns; they use bullets and simple explosives. I really like the idea of a infestation-enhancing node. You'd have to choose between increased resources and the usual enhanced infestation growth near it, or a infestation node that converts the res to infestation-making efforts, vastly increasing the rate of infestation nearby, or perhaps even map-wide.
Here's an idea to make 'boring' chomping more interesting... make it a mini game.
1. When you make the first bite you start the mini-game. 2. A bar appears on your screen with a marker at some point a long it. 3. A line sweeps along the bar. 4. If you chomp dead on the bar you do extra damage, if you don't then you do normal damage and your effectively slowing your bite speed. 5. After you bite the bar resets with the marker in a different place.
This is very similar to gears of war perfect/jam reloads.
Of course this is only one idea but I'm sure there's lots of ways to make it slightly more interesting chomping at stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1663638:date=Dec 11 2007, 11:43 PM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Dec 11 2007, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663638"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It already plays a critical role past the early stages of a game in repairing armor, so I wouldn't exactly call it underused.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game. You could potentially make whole maps that revolve around welding things. You could have every door weld-able, walkways that need fixing using welds, computer terminals that turn on weaponry and open air vents that are all weld-able. You could even have a room that if the marines get into and weld something the whole hive is killed, or moved to another room. Maps could be dynamic and interchangeable just using welds and selected functions on hammer. Open rooms could become mazes of corridors, just using switches and welds. Rooms could become open to outer space or flooded with water or acid using welds. Dead ends could become corners that lead directly to extra res nodes. Or stairs could appear from the ground allowing players to get up to higher levels, where they may be able to attack the hive from or relocate to. Windows could open and let in extra light, filling a once dark and dangerous room with the light of a distant star and giving marines more chance of extra survival. The possibilities for weld-able targets are endless in terms of mapping, and particularly dynamic mapping: the kind of mapping that makes a game really interesting and constantly fresh and new.
<!--quoteo(post=1663705:date=Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM:name=asmodee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(asmodee @ Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you want gorges to have some sort of weapon/ability whose purpose is specifically attacking doors/welds meaning things marines build? Should this acid glue thing be a blob that is flung out and splahes a little doing damage to what is around it? Should it not damage marines themselves? Should it be a 2nd hive ability? I hope you see where I'm going with this...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol! Yeah I see where your going with that, but I was thinking more along the lines of the before mentioned barricade building abilities that marines may or may not get. Say if NS2 had marines being able to build large structures out of found objects, the gorge should be able to do the same. They should also be able to undo welds (as in inbuilt map welds, not fixing structure welds...) which as far as I am aware they can’t do at the moment.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Also think of the fun a gorge could have if he could weld things<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, or unweld things, especially if the maps are as dynamic as I have described. Say for example you had a room that was open to outer space when the marines arrive, say like a cargo hold that had its outer doors open (a perfectly understandable reason for a ship that has been evacuated quickly). Now they have to weld a terminal to close those doors and then they can go through that room and use it as a short cut to the hive. But then as they enter a gorge drops out of a vent behind them and starts welding the terminal they had just welded, the warning alarms go off as a squad of marines realise they only have seconds to get out of that room before they are sucked out into space. Or vice versa.
<!--quoteo(post=1663778:date=Dec 12 2007, 07:59 PM:name=INKEDOUT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(INKEDOUT @ Dec 12 2007, 07:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663778"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <i>minor</i>? What game have you been playing?
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
The game that the majority of pubbers play - the one where welding is a minor part of gameplay. Just because it is technically a critical part of gameplay, doesn't mean that it is often used by the majority of players.
<!--quoteo(post=1663785:date=Dec 13 2007, 01:20 AM:name=enigma)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enigma @ Dec 13 2007, 01:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i>minor</i>? What game have you been playing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <b>I better be nice.</b>
"Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game. You could potentially make whole maps that revolve around welding things.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->"
Weldbot = Cool ... It was always tough to find someone responsible and team-minded enough to keep your armour welded up. I was often given the welder but the problem is... I can't weld myself and you don't know the grief I go through to get welded up myself sometimes. Best idea in the podcast.
Weldable Doors = Okay guys, let's be practical for a second here. We can barely get Pub players to cooperate as a team and you want to give individuals the ability to weld any door shut? Put a welder into the wrong hands or if the wrong guy picks up a welder, they could single handedly jepordize the entire marine team.
Weldable Props = Great idea when I first read it, complete impossible to balance for a mapper. I can see frustrating stalemates caused by marine teams "welding" themselves into frustratingly unbreakable places. If "weldable props" are limited I could see in-fighting over who gets to use what pieces and where.
These ideas are interesting and played out in your mind where everyone is mature and wants to cooperate these ideas are damn cool... but in reality, there are solo'ers, grievers, and people who just don't know better. What is an epic experience in your mind's eye, and the first time it would be a neat experience, but it could end up being an annoying nusiance the 100th time you have to do it, or worse, a show stopping way for greivers to ruin people's fun.
Mix those people into your ideas and it doesn't take a genius game designer to see that it is unpractical.
Weldbot is a great idea though I'd definately impliment that.
<!--quoteo(post=1663853:date=Dec 13 2007, 09:50 PM:name=Whiskey_Tango_Foxtrot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Whiskey_Tango_Foxtrot @ Dec 13 2007, 09:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Weldable Props = Great idea when I first read it, complete impossible to balance for a mapper. I can see frustrating stalemates caused by marine teams "welding" themselves into frustratingly unbreakable places. If "weldable props" are limited I could see in-fighting over who gets to use what pieces and where.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You can't cater to grievers, but your concern for people not working together is certainly warranted. However, it shouldn't be that hard to make any difficult-to-break fortifications take proportionally long to set up properly. Giving the opposing team plenty of team to do important stuff like get siege cannons or bile bombs, which would bypass or wreck them fortifications anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=1663883:date=Dec 13 2007, 11:13 PM:name=Align)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Align @ Dec 13 2007, 11:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663883"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You can't cater to grievers, but your concern for people not working together is certainly warranted. However, it shouldn't be that hard to make any difficult-to-break fortifications take proportionally long to set up properly. Giving the opposing team plenty of team to do important stuff like get siege cannons or bile bombs, which would bypass or wreck them fortifications anyway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not so much about catering to grievers so much as <b><i>factoring</b></i> in the possibility of grieving.
Remember, the initial build order in an RTS is vital... every lost second could mean the game. All it takes is one person to weld a doorway to an important section or resource and it could spell disaster. I'm not saying you have plan for every possible problem a griever can cause the game but there are certain things that are more obvious when it comes to problems then other things.
Being able to block off access to parts of the map, even for a short length of time, can definately cause some problems.
An idea I think could help in clearing up possible problems is giving the commander a "nano-bomb" that can instantly clear weldable barricades. It should only be able to be deployed by the commander.
<!--quoteo(post=1663853:date=Dec 13 2007, 08:50 PM:name=Whiskey_Tango_Foxtrot)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Whiskey_Tango_Foxtrot @ Dec 13 2007, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663853"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Weldable Doors = Okay guys, let's be practical for a second here. We can barely get Pub players to cooperate as a team and you want to give individuals the ability to weld any door shut? Put a welder into the wrong hands or if the wrong guy picks up a welder, they could single handedly jepordize the entire marine team.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
people really need to take a chill-pill on this one. most are forgetting a few basic things -
1. flayra said all doors would be weldable - OPEN and CLOSED. so far everyone is only whinging about the closed part, without thinking of the other option.
2. we do not know how welders - or weldable objects - will work in NS2. it may be a case where you could simply un-weld someones previous weld, as the gameplay and strategy changes during the game. normal fire welds, alt-fire unwelds?? i doubt weld points will be like in NS1, where once they are welded, thats it. after all, they are talking about <u>dynamic</u> weldpoints, not static.
3. based on the current NS1 maps, the effect on gameplay and strategy could be minimal - or non-exsistant - depending on the map. what door would you weld in eclipse?
4. we dont know if the aliens will be able to weld stuff as well in NS2.... gorge spit FTW!
seriously guys, your initial fear and disgust at this idea has closed your minds to the vast possibilities that welding could bring to the game.
I like the open-ended welding ideas; you don't need to make them a <i>super</i> vital portion of the game, but having it there to try new dynamic strategies would be really awesome.
Anyway, for the griefing problem, perhaps commanders can disable the ability of some individuals to weld/dismantle base equipment. If the commander is abusing that power, he can always be voted out of the chair.
<!--quoteo(post=1663273:date=Dec 8 2007, 02:20 PM:name=FD2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FD2 @ Dec 8 2007, 02:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just had to post saying that Afratnikov misquoted Charlie, who didn't say: In fact we’re doing – maybe that means our demos will never be pretty, girly, flashy, but we’re not hacking anything in... but did say: In fact we’re doing – maybe that means our demos will never be particularly flashy, but we’re not hacking anything in...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks, FD2. Please let me know if i misquote something else. <!--quoteo(post=1663472:date=Dec 10 2007, 01:40 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Dec 10 2007, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks a ton for the transcript, afratnikov! It's a big help for me and plenty of other people <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks for the encouragement, I'll work on the next podcast as well. <!--quoteo(post=1663402:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:42 PM:name=whocareswc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(whocareswc @ Dec 9 2007, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the transcript.. awsome! weld bot sounds kool.. any chance that the aliens will be able to 'weld' maybe acid on doors/vents??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hopefully there will be more gameplay info tomorrow!
Great transcript, very excitable about the model of welding that seems to be going on. As for making it FUN and dynamic I have an implementation idea: The amount you weld a door is directly proportional to the amount of stress before either the welding breaks off or the door breaks down.
Example: After running to base to get some hp, bob-the-noob quickly applies 1/2 meter of welding is on a standard sliding door (think nancy ms). A reasonably fast (bhopping?) skulk would break all the welding off, and the door would open after 50ms and could continue. This would alert bob to the skulks presence, and would take less time for the skulk to break down than bob to put it up (though not by much).
Example 2: The same type of door is welded completely shut, but since its near a hive that the marines are trying to seige, bob welds it completely shut. However since he is under so much pressure he does a shoddy job, and only 85% of the welding is actually good. In this case, a fade blinks into it repeatedly and two skulks try and much on the welding. The skulks munching weaken the door, but not the welding. After a few charges from the fade the door is weakened even more. Finally a huge push by the fade manages to break down the entire door just as the marines get seige #3 up.
Ok, so how to implement in gameplay while making it fair and fun? - doors have strength and players have weights - a welded door can either have all its solder break off, or the door itself can be smashed to pieces! - attacking lowers the door strength, ramming (running into) a door removes some solder AND hurts the door strength (weight x speed) - door strength replenishes quickly after impact, though slowly after an attacking
This makes it really dynamic, is real easy to implement, and can provide a completely optional open tactic.
<!--quoteo(post=1663815:date=Dec 13 2007, 08:29 AM:name=INKEDOUT)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(INKEDOUT @ Dec 13 2007, 08:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663815"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->enigma, you clearly need to learn to read...
"Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game. You could potentially make whole maps that revolve around welding things.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->"
You even put it in your quote, how dim are you??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd say armor upkeep is more important than playing with scrap metal. I also don't recall quoting that second sentence.
Flayra mentioned in the podcast something about one marine holding a piece of metal while another welded it in place. If the majority of players on pubs can't even grasp the concept of welding each other, how can this team-based welding system be expected to work?
Comments
If you look at current NS maps, there's a huge lack of doors. Yes, doors in areas such as eclipse MS are horrible, but some of the ones in Nancy are great (though theres too many).
What if this concept was implemented, but mappers were explained to definitely not overdo it? Have maybe 2-3 in a map. That way you could keep the awesome atmospherics of welding doors closed, hearing aliens bash at em while your marines load up on your side, etc, but still maintain a generally better flow.
So here’s what I think: welding was the most underused aspect of NS, it should have been used more!
I think welding should be a big part of NS2, like whole maps where both teams have to open each door as they go, getting closer to each other (perhaps with alternative vents or smaller routes). Maps where two ships have collided and areas of the map are destroyed and broken up, with walkways that need fixing and stuff. There are soooo many things you can do with welding; it should become a massive part of NS2.
I think Gorges should also get a type of welder, something that will help aliens get through welded doors. It’s possibly the only way to really balance the idea. Maybe some kind of ‘acid glue’ stuff?
My thoughts on building barricades with junk found on maps: YES! This should happen, but only if both sides can do it and servers can take it.
The weld bot sounds cool! Who would control it? Would it be controlled at all? Would there be a structure of some kind that a team had to build? Would the bots have to return to these to get fixed? Or would they just be like a weapon, that flies around a player like the <a href="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Marksman-H_training_remote" target="_blank">Marksman-H combat remote</a> that flies around you in JKII:Outcast?
It already plays a critical role past the early stages of a game in repairing armor, so I wouldn't exactly call it underused.
Anyways, I think that welding should stick closer to it's original design with only slight modifications. Ideas like welding objects together might be too extreme. The weld-bot does sound good. I find it funny though because I think Charlie came up with that on the fly during the podcast, yet it lit a light bulb in everyone's head.
Just a side note about welders themselves. It seems like commanders don't give out welders early enough in the game which is probably when it matters the most or will in NS2. In my opinion, the welder should become a stock marine for weapons or a hand granade-like upgrade where once upgraded, forcing marines to constantly spawn with a new welder. Also, a lot of times people have welders without knowing that. Placing an icon in the right-bottom corner was a step forward, but I think more needs to be done to inform people, maybe a a quick HUD message (not necessarily in the center of the screen) saying that he picked up mines, welder, etc.
Also, Flayra, you're awesome, I really liked that post you made to counter "boring activities"
<!--quoteo(post=1663324:date=Dec 8 2007, 11:18 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Flayra @ Dec 8 2007, 11:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663324"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The main thing I disagree with here is that NS has lots of boring activities. I agree that munching a RT can be tedious, but I think welding and building are high points of the game. These non-combat activities are there for the express purpose of having "down time". You can't have "up" time with out it! It also lets you catch your breath and recharge your batteries a bit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Couldn't have been said better.
I want to address this, to show that it is possible to make bashing doors open epic every time it happens.
Skulks: Do not bash doors, they bash/burst/leap vent covers to scare the bejesus out of marines who can't see them.
Gorges: Do not bash doors, they seal them open with infestation. Ugh, now we can't weld it shut, damn!
Lerks: Do not bash period, they send area effects through the vents covers which hide them. Damn, can't get that pesky lerk!
Fade: Their adamantium tough, razor sharp apendages have this nasty habit of ripping right through the door, a very nasty surprise for any on the other side, as it can still reach them with its attack.
Onos: A quick charge should have those pesky doors taken care of, add physics from HL2, mix, and turn those doors into a weapon where they were once a boon to the marines.
Onos, being what an Onos is, should be epic every time. It charges down a hall, flinging objects this way and that, destroying barriers and sending debri flying at dangerous break neck speeds towards the marines! With the force that only a charging Onos can muster, the doors become moot points and even hazardous.
For all involved who see the doors go flying away from an Onos or by their marines head, inches from certain serious harm, it will be epic indeed.
For an example of the possibilities, we need look no further than NS1. Who here remembers a certain door in nancy map that would lead to the mess hall? Remember that vent that sits right above it? Oh, and how the Kharaa would be waiting on all sides and even behind the table, for you and your buddies to charge in?
That is only peanuts compared to the fun that could be had with a properly implemented "weld vs bash". I have to side with Flayra on this one, IMHO, I think Max is in the wrong, this could be EPIC.
<b>Vote <u>Dynamic Infestation vs Dynamic Weld</u> today!</b>
Then we are going to have to agree to disagree, because I often see players relate epic and gaming goodness as synonymous. I like to call these experiences gamers have "wow" moments, because the player says "Holy ****, did you see that?!?" and goes and tells a friend about this crazy moment they had in a game. We had a number of them in NS1, why not want that for NS2? Many a time when a skulk surprised me and had me jump, many a time when an Onos was charging down a hall and marines would be all "Oh no! Onos!" and when you bring that Onos down, there would be cheers!
I want many a "wow" moment in NS2, and weld vs infestation if done right can provide that. Dynamic anything can provide that, it brings a bit of the "Unknown" into this "World" <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
<!--quoteo(post=1663689:date=Dec 12 2007, 04:15 AM:name=StixNStonz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(StixNStonz @ Dec 12 2007, 04:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663689"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only problem, that door is on the wrong side of Mess for marines to be welding. Maybe it it was a door from mess -> cargo instead of ladders.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its on the right side, it performs its purpose admirably.
<i>For an example of the possibilities, we need look no further than NS1. Who here remembers a certain door in nancy map that would lead to the mess hall? Remember that vent that sits right above it? Oh, and how the Kharaa would be waiting on all sides and even behind the table, for you and your buddies to charge in?</i>
What I am referring to is what happens with a door there, in later versions without the door, I can not honestly recall this scenario happening anymore.
Doors can create points of memorable, tense conflicts.
So you want gorges to have some sort of weapon/ability whose purpose is specifically attacking doors/welds meaning things marines build? Should this acid glue thing be a blob that is flung out and splahes a little doing damage to what is around it? Should it not damage marines themselves? Should it be a 2nd hive ability? I hope you see where I'm going with this...
Or you're going to have players say wow, Holy ****, can you believe this game just lasted 1:45hr??? And it didn't even start off as a small game (like what happened on junktext yesterday). I left like 5-10 mins into the game, had dinner, came back and the game time was 50 mins, game didn't end for another hour.
Then you'll have people go tell their friends about how aliens had every node, marines were relocated to eq hive (ns_lost), marines could barely hold eq node, and yet the game dragged on and on and on even though aliens had 2 hives and nearly all res. The primary reason it was dragged out was that marines had seiges, turrets, electricity, and prototech in eq.
Long drawn out battles are great, when the winner is constantly changing back and forth. Taking an obvious alien victory and drawing it out for 1.5 hr was an epic waste.
Yes and no. Some days I feel like playing the down and out marine and trying to take down as many as I can in a hopeless situation. Some days I just don't want to get stuck in a game like that. Regardless, there's no way to eliminate that type of game. Sometimes skill/experience levels are just matched up like that, and in a game where skill level and game knowledge are roughly equally important it's possible to get a team lacking one or the other and a slow death occurring.
14 marines can last for goddamn ever like that, especially on some maps or locations. Cargo Hive in Nothing is a perfect example of this; a reloc there lasted a good 20 minutes past their containment. We needed i think 6 oni to rush in (thank god we had DCs), with the fade going in first to distract, AND umbra. Even that barely made it.
Situations like this are what give extra warrant to the superclass discussions. If a class was made for Aliens that perhaps cost two people 100 res, and one 'drove', one 'gunned', and it had special end-game abilities, situations like that would be a lot more epic-fun than epic-lame.
In such a situation, you WOULD see some cool gameplay (though hopefully the aliens wouldnt get rocked too bad... its not that often they get oni). All the more reason to make it a later-game feature.
When I started thinking about the concept of being able to weld anything to anything I immediatly thought of Lego Mindstorms. I know this puts this into a whole new league of complexity but was so cool I had to share it with everyone! Imagine as commander being able to create different components which can then be welded together by your team in many different ways. I envisaged the following scenarios:
<ol type='1'><li>The commander builds a tripod, a turret and a scanner; these can then be welded together to form a basic automated turret. </li><li>The commander builds a mobile base (think small tank base with tracks) a simple AI (simple bot code already out there), scanner and turret; you then have the makings of a mobile automated turret which the commander can then set to patrol an area.</li><li>Alien gorges could build drones and glue on sensory and other nodes to replicate the above.</li><li>Alien gorges could produce a resource tower and glue on a DI node which would feed all the res generated by the node into creating DI around it, thus lowering the cost of building near it and supporting aliens close by.</li></ol>
Basically the aliens and the marines have equivilents of all components and can glue them together in similar ways.
Obviously this means the tech tree becomes more of a tech bush very rapidly as you're able to combine and recombine components in different ways. The upside is that only a few key components need be provided initially as you would be able to combine these to form all the existing ones from NS1.
Another idea, instead of a welder which doesn't fit into the hi tech nanite enabled universe this is set in, how about a nanite gun. it would make more sense for clearing alien DI as well. Also if the marines are to have their own version of DI then marines could use the nanite gun to lay down trails of marine DI which the commander can then use. Again this also translates easily to the aliens where the gorges can do the same.
I've been a fan of NS from the very start and hope these ramblings make sense as it's my first post!
I really like the idea of a infestation-enhancing node. You'd have to choose between increased resources and the usual enhanced infestation growth near it, or a infestation node that converts the res to infestation-making efforts, vastly increasing the rate of infestation nearby, or perhaps even map-wide.
1. When you make the first bite you start the mini-game.
2. A bar appears on your screen with a marker at some point a long it.
3. A line sweeps along the bar.
4. If you chomp dead on the bar you do extra damage, if you don't then you do normal damage and your effectively slowing your bite speed.
5. After you bite the bar resets with the marker in a different place.
This is very similar to gears of war perfect/jam reloads.
Of course this is only one idea but I'm sure there's lots of ways to make it slightly more interesting chomping at stuff.
Comments?
Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game. You could potentially make whole maps that revolve around welding things. You could have every door weld-able, walkways that need fixing using welds, computer terminals that turn on weaponry and open air vents that are all weld-able. You could even have a room that if the marines get into and weld something the whole hive is killed, or moved to another room. Maps could be dynamic and interchangeable just using welds and selected functions on hammer. Open rooms could become mazes of corridors, just using switches and welds. Rooms could become open to outer space or flooded with water or acid using welds. Dead ends could become corners that lead directly to extra res nodes. Or stairs could appear from the ground allowing players to get up to higher levels, where they may be able to attack the hive from or relocate to. Windows could open and let in extra light, filling a once dark and dangerous room with the light of a distant star and giving marines more chance of extra survival. The possibilities for weld-able targets are endless in terms of mapping, and particularly dynamic mapping: the kind of mapping that makes a game really interesting and constantly fresh and new.
<!--quoteo(post=1663705:date=Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM:name=asmodee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(asmodee @ Dec 12 2007, 02:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663705"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you want gorges to have some sort of weapon/ability whose purpose is specifically attacking doors/welds meaning things marines build? Should this acid glue thing be a blob that is flung out and splahes a little doing damage to what is around it? Should it not damage marines themselves? Should it be a 2nd hive ability? I hope you see where I'm going with this...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lol! Yeah I see where your going with that, but I was thinking more along the lines of the before mentioned barricade building abilities that marines may or may not get. Say if NS2 had marines being able to build large structures out of found objects, the gorge should be able to do the same. They should also be able to undo welds (as in inbuilt map welds, not fixing structure welds...) which as far as I am aware they can’t do at the moment.
<!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->Also think of the fun a gorge could have if he could weld things<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->, or unweld things, especially if the maps are as dynamic as I have described. Say for example you had a room that was open to outer space when the marines arrive, say like a cargo hold that had its outer doors open (a perfectly understandable reason for a ship that has been evacuated quickly). Now they have to weld a terminal to close those doors and then they can go through that room and use it as a short cut to the hive. But then as they enter a gorge drops out of a vent behind them and starts welding the terminal they had just welded, the warning alarms go off as a squad of marines realise they only have seconds to get out of that room before they are sucked out into space. Or vice versa.
<i>minor</i>? What game have you been playing?
<b>I better be nice.</b>
"Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game. You could potentially make whole maps that revolve around welding things.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->"
Weldable Doors = Okay guys, let's be practical for a second here. We can barely get Pub players to cooperate as a team and you want to give individuals the ability to weld any door shut? Put a welder into the wrong hands or if the wrong guy picks up a welder, they could single handedly jepordize the entire marine team.
Weldable Props = Great idea when I first read it, complete impossible to balance for a mapper. I can see frustrating stalemates caused by marine teams "welding" themselves into frustratingly unbreakable places. If "weldable props" are limited I could see in-fighting over who gets to use what pieces and where.
These ideas are interesting and played out in your mind where everyone is mature and wants to cooperate these ideas are damn cool... but in reality, there are solo'ers, grievers, and people who just don't know better. What is an epic experience in your mind's eye, and the first time it would be a neat experience, but it could end up being an annoying nusiance the 100th time you have to do it, or worse, a show stopping way for greivers to ruin people's fun.
Mix those people into your ideas and it doesn't take a genius game designer to see that it is unpractical.
Weldbot is a great idea though I'd definately impliment that.
It's not so much about catering to grievers so much as <b><i>factoring</b></i> in the possibility of grieving.
Remember, the initial build order in an RTS is vital... every lost second could mean the game. All it takes is one person to weld a doorway to an important section or resource and it could spell disaster. I'm not saying you have plan for every possible problem a griever can cause the game but there are certain things that are more obvious when it comes to problems then other things.
Being able to block off access to parts of the map, even for a short length of time, can definately cause some problems.
An idea I think could help in clearing up possible problems is giving the commander a "nano-bomb" that can instantly clear weldable barricades. It should only be able to be deployed by the commander.
people really need to take a chill-pill on this one. most are forgetting a few basic things -
1. flayra said all doors would be weldable - OPEN and CLOSED. so far everyone is only whinging about the closed part, without thinking of the other option.
2. we do not know how welders - or weldable objects - will work in NS2. it may be a case where you could simply un-weld someones previous weld, as the gameplay and strategy changes during the game. normal fire welds, alt-fire unwelds?? i doubt weld points will be like in NS1, where once they are welded, thats it. after all, they are talking about <u>dynamic</u> weldpoints, not static.
3. based on the current NS1 maps, the effect on gameplay and strategy could be minimal - or non-exsistant - depending on the map. what door would you weld in eclipse?
4. we dont know if the aliens will be able to weld stuff as well in NS2.... gorge spit FTW!
seriously guys, your initial fear and disgust at this idea has closed your minds to the vast possibilities that welding could bring to the game.
Anyway, for the griefing problem, perhaps commanders can disable the ability of some individuals to weld/dismantle base equipment. If the commander is abusing that power, he can always be voted out of the chair.
In fact we’re doing – maybe that means our demos will never be pretty, girly, flashy, but we’re not hacking anything in...
but did say:
In fact we’re doing – maybe that means our demos will never be particularly flashy, but we’re not hacking anything in...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thanks, FD2. Please let me know if i misquote something else.
<!--quoteo(post=1663472:date=Dec 10 2007, 01:40 PM:name=TychoCelchuuu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TychoCelchuuu @ Dec 10 2007, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663472"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks a ton for the transcript, afratnikov! It's a big help for me and plenty of other people <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Thanks for the encouragement, I'll work on the next podcast as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1663402:date=Dec 9 2007, 09:42 PM:name=whocareswc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(whocareswc @ Dec 9 2007, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1663402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thanks for the transcript.. awsome!
weld bot sounds kool..
any chance that the aliens will be able to 'weld' maybe acid on doors/vents??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Hopefully there will be more gameplay info tomorrow!
The amount you weld a door is directly proportional to the amount of stress before either the welding breaks off or the door breaks down.
Example: After running to base to get some hp, bob-the-noob quickly applies 1/2 meter of welding is on a standard sliding door (think nancy ms). A reasonably fast (bhopping?) skulk would break all the welding off, and the door would open after 50ms and could continue. This would alert bob to the skulks presence, and would take less time for the skulk to break down than bob to put it up (though not by much).
Example 2: The same type of door is welded completely shut, but since its near a hive that the marines are trying to seige, bob welds it completely shut. However since he is under so much pressure he does a shoddy job, and only 85% of the welding is actually good. In this case, a fade blinks into it repeatedly and two skulks try and much on the welding. The skulks munching weaken the door, but not the welding. After a few charges from the fade the door is weakened even more. Finally a huge push by the fade manages to break down the entire door just as the marines get seige #3 up.
Ok, so how to implement in gameplay while making it fair and fun?
- doors have strength and players have weights
- a welded door can either have all its solder break off, or the door itself can be smashed to pieces!
- attacking lowers the door strength, ramming (running into) a door removes some solder AND hurts the door strength (weight x speed)
- door strength replenishes quickly after impact, though slowly after an attacking
This makes it really dynamic, is real easy to implement, and can provide a completely optional open tactic.
PLEASE POKE HOLES!
"Yes repairing armour and structures is such a minor part of the game <!--coloro:#FFFF00--><span style="color:#FFFF00"><!--/coloro-->when you consider the possibilities that welding can be used for in game. You could potentially make whole maps that revolve around welding things.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->"
You even put it in your quote, how dim are you??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd say armor upkeep is more important than playing with scrap metal. I also don't recall quoting that second sentence.
Flayra mentioned in the podcast something about one marine holding a piece of metal while another welded it in place. If the majority of players on pubs can't even grasp the concept of welding each other, how can this team-based welding system be expected to work?