AbraWould you kindlyJoin Date: 2003-08-17Member: 19870Members
If I played this online, I would get pwned - big time. I have a hard time adapting to the pace of the game. It's to fast for the little maps I think. Might be it.
<!--quoteo(post=1609786:date=Feb 27 2007, 06:28 PM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Comprox @ Feb 27 2007, 06:28 PM) [snapback]1609786[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> It appears to be quiet solid and polished, but like other people have said, offers nothing new. The biggest plus is the GUI, having access to making all units/buildings in the top right is very nicely done (maybe is has been done before, just the first time I have seen it).
Maybe I'll get it someday, but didn't peak my interest enough with basically no new features or gameplay. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that exactly what they did with the very FIRST C&C game?
I haven't played all of the games in the C&C franchise, but at the very beginning they started with a unique system where all production options were on tabs on the right side of the screen. Clicking on the actual buildings that MADE units did nothing. You had one long tab for constructing buildings, and a second tab for constructing units. When a unit was finished, it would automatically emerge from the building of the appropriate type. When a building was finished, it would glow in the production tab, and wait for you to place it. You could also "pause" construction on units at around 95% to acheive a similar effect.
This allowed for interesting tactical options, because you could hold completed structures/units ready in your queue for immediate placement on the map when you wanted them. Once you decided to place it, the unit or building would appear almost instantly for use. For example, you could hold both a barracks and a commando in queue, sneak an engineer into an enemy base to capture some random structure, immediately place the barracks next to it, and immediately spawn the commando at the barracks, allowing him to start wreaking havoc with no delay. You could keep spare copies of any of your important structures ready in case the original got destroyed, for instant replacement. It was fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I got bored of RTS games a fair while back. I can't remember when it was, but Warcraft III was probably the last RTS i really played and got into.
They all seem to have tried to hard and missed, at least for me, the sweet spot where the fun is.
That's why i'm so buying this game.
This is nothing but old-school CnC. This is, for me, what made RTS games fun, and it still is.
The hammy, over-acted FMV is there, and good god i'm glad it is. Not only does it make a nice departure from ingame cutscenes, but having Michael Ironside and Billy Dee Williams there is enough to have secured a purchase from me regardless of how good the game was. Back when all games tried to do FMV (Gabriel Knight 2, Phantasmagoria, Harvester, blah blah blah) none of them really hit the mark where CnC did and it essentially killed off putting FMV into games. It's good to see it back.
The gameplay is nothing but pure, unadulterated fun. I'm sick of RTS games that impose limits in the amounts of troops you can buy, or the amount of certain types of troops. If i want to pool all my resources into getting an army of Mammoth tanks then i'll do so, i don't want the game telling me that i've built too many or saying "sorry but a mammoth <i>tank</i> needs 10 food" or something, no, i want it made, yes mr esuna, sir! Sure, you might whine and moan that this detracts from the strategy and turn the game into nothing but a zergfest, but hey, that's how i like it.
The Ion Cannon is also pretty cool fyi especially if you take out about 50 of your own squads when you fire it.
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
Nice nice. I jsut bought the C&C The First Decade DVD pack, has all 12 games and exapansion packs on it..
(All my old CDs were kinda getting beat)
Time for the next part of the story. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Alcapwn"War is the science of destruction" - John AbbotJoin Date: 2003-06-21Member: 17590Members
I was impressed by the demo; C&C3 looks, feels, and plays great.
EA really outdid themselves this time (incoming joke, i know) and they have already pledged full post-launch support for the game, and it just got accepted into WCG 2007...
I don't know, I'm not really impressed. It's decent I'd say, but I just kinda feels like it completely lacks depth (then again, haven't really played it extensively. so it's too early to say for sure..), not really a lot of units, not much paper-rock-scissor, nor upgrades :X
Edit: I just hope we didn't get all the units and upgrades in the demo, because then I'd have to say, it's kinda lacking :X
It's pretty much just the old CnC I guess, with a few new mechanics - special abilities from buildings and each production building working seperately, instead of extras just lowering build-time for the primary building. While that may be awesome to some, I personally have been corrupted by DoW, CoH, SupCom, and whatnot that has been released since CnC and now, I want more depth *shrug*
I'll probably pick it up when it goes down in price, like.. 100-200dkk (~ 17-35USD or 9-18 British Pounds)
its very just the old style of red alert or cnc series. the demo isnt very impressing and it took me sometime downloading it. i wont get it unless its one of the WCG games.
<!--quoteo(post=1613210:date=Mar 10 2007, 08:21 AM:name=Lofung)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lofung @ Mar 10 2007, 08:21 AM) [snapback]1613210[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i wont get it unless its one of the WCG games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.worldcybergames.com/6th/2007/Overview/general.asp" target="_blank">Which it is</a>
I wanted to like it- but its still a case of mass producing huge armies and recklesly throwing them into batle which doesn't interest me much. Doesn't seem to be any kind of tactics, and simple strategy.
Whats so bad about it. I found the interface to be a improvement over older CnC games, the units blow up real nice, the classic units are there, and the AI is pretty hard in skirmish mode. Only thing bad is its made by EA which means support will last only 1 week, the retail version will have bugs not in the demo, and EA will proably announce 3 new booster packs coming out in 1 month. Ill probably buy it after it drops down in price a bit just like any other game from EA that I buy.
I was surprised at the stability of the demo and the difficulty of the AI. To bad SupCom AI isnt this hard.
The lone skirmish map seems to promote a suicidally offensive style. If you don't launch your own assault soon enough, the stealthy buggers will begin manifesting themselves in your base and promptly screwing over your refinery and other crunchy structures. Also, just when you thought that a few missile squads could finish off the one or two vehicles still outside your barracks, a missile squad deploys and is squashed by the sadistic bulldozers that are NOD motorbikes. Okay, fair enough, let's send the predators and infantry out hard and early, eh? Nay, you take your eyes off of them to place a building and they're reduced to smoking ruin upon return.
So, yes, the game is speedy and furious, and the AI is berserk. The game might have a few balance issues, too; suicide bombers are unstoppable except by the explosives they wear around their waists, and bombers for both factions tend to wipe away air defenses and obliterate counters without problems at all. Most annoying is the short list of units capable of detecting stealth: pitbulls, upgraded zone troopers, micromanaged orcas, and? Hopefully there's something hiding in the support structure file somewhere, because it's a major pain to rest entire defensive and offensive strategies on such fragile and yet easily excitable units. I'm willing to chalk these up to unfamiliarity with the game and general noobiness, but they stuck out nonetheless.
On a semi-related note, full SupComm offers harder difficulty levels than in the demo: Gamespot mentions "Horde" and "Supreme" settings. But yes, their "medium" difficulty is sad compared to C&C's.
Eh, I'm no C&C savant, but the medium difficulty level knows how to fight. Maybe I'm letting too many of my Tiberian Sun strategies hold over (example: riflemen don't even work so well against infantry any more).
Are you serious. have you played brutal AI? The AI had 100k+ minerals in 5 minutes. I had 3k! They produced 100+ units in 5 minutes. I had 16. They cheat yes but that means they are hard not easy. So unless something weird happed the AI is HARD. I havent tried other difficulties or try another match vs brutal AI but it stomped me good.
After I saw the 30 tanks over run my 1 tank i think I just laughed as my base exploded. I didnt even try to counter. I just sat there loling over vent how my base got over ran in 5 minutes.
This is pretty off-topic, but I hate games that make their AI "Cheat" to keep from losing. Such as the game giving them free money and such (C&C generals did this, if you killed off everything the comp had to the point where they had no way of getting money and no money (Steal it all with saboteurs)). Then leave them alone for awhile, they would magically get more funds and start building again.
<!--quoteo(post=1613923:date=Mar 12 2007, 08:20 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Mar 12 2007, 08:20 PM) [snapback]1613923[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> This is pretty off-topic, but I hate games that make their AI "Cheat" to keep from losing. Such as the game giving them free money and such (C&C generals did this, if you killed off everything the comp had to the point where they had no way of getting money and no money (Steal it all with saboteurs)). Then leave them alone for awhile, they would magically get more funds and start building again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, but RTS AI is very hard to make properly. The only advantage they could ever have is to out produce their opponent. This AI cheats to much lol, 100+ units in 5 minutes lol give me a break.
AIs that cheat is just silly.. it's such a cheap way to make them harder.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats so bad about it. I found the interface to be a improvement over older CnC games, the units blow up real nice, the classic units are there, and the AI is pretty hard in skirmish mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I just felt it lacked depth. For me, it lacks variety(Amount of units, upgrades, whatnot) and strategy(what you do with beforementioned). It's just the same old spam tons of units :X That said, they might be holding back units for the full version, and I hope they are, because the current state is kinda sad :X
SSM Launcher MCV Apache Helicopter Transport Helicopter Nuclear Strike
Counters to Stealth: Infantry, guard towers. Detection range was only 1 square. Stealth Tanks could run over infantry, by the way, killing them. However, attacking uncloaked them, and if they were damaged before recloaking you could track them by the smoke they gave off. Counters to aircraft: Rocket Infantry, Rocket Truck(GDI), Recon Bike(Nod), anti-air guard towers. Aircraft could not be manually targetted during flight, so you had to hope your handful of anti-air units would auto-acquire them and shoot them down. Oh, and Rocket Trucks sucked.
Upgrades: None whatsoever. You progressed through your tech tree just by building a command center, and then an advanced command center if you wanted nukes/ion cannons.
Think of is this way: mario hardly ever changes and sells good because of the type of gameplay. It hasent changed since it was originally released. Atleast their sticking true to the old games and giving some new stuff while they make newer versions
Well, the 3D/2D-platforming genre hasn't really changed(Edit: RTS games has), and tbh, the mario games usually, if not always (I haven't kept tabs on it), have some kind of new gimmick each time. Mario Sunshine had the waterhose, New Super Mario Brothers took the moves from Mario 64 and added them to a 2D platformer, it also introduced new powerups. Super Paper Mario is going to have that 2D-3D combination.
Tbh, I probably wouldn't pay for a remake of Super Mario Bros. 3 with super fancy new graphics. Which it seems C&C3 more or less is. The new stuff I can see is some menu enhancements, "general powers" which was introduced in Generals (now they cost resources though), and a new story (which I'm hardly interested in). And well, I just don't really find the gameplay fun, which is the core of it I suppose, for reasons I've already mentioned. In essence, to me, it's just a rehash, same game with some minor alterations. Some might be interested in that. Me? I'll wait 'til it drops in price, then prolly pick it up so I can actually play some RTS with my mates at LANs.
<!--quoteo(post=1613923:date=Mar 12 2007, 11:20 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Mar 12 2007, 11:20 PM) [snapback]1613923[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> This is pretty off-topic, but I hate games that make their AI "Cheat" to keep from losing. Such as the game giving them free money and such (C&C generals did this, if you killed off everything the comp had to the point where they had no way of getting money and no money (Steal it all with saboteurs)). Then leave them alone for awhile, they would magically get more funds and start building again. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->FREAKING MARIO KART 64<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> ooh look i used 50 turbos and wario is still "har har har"ing up my a**. this is fair.
<!--quoteo(post=1614637:date=Mar 15 2007, 12:20 PM:name=enf0rcer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(enf0rcer @ Mar 15 2007, 12:20 PM) [snapback]1614637[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->FREAKING MARIO KART 64<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> ooh look i used 50 turbos and wario is still "har har har"ing up my a**. this is fair. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, one of the Need for Speed games on the PSP did this as well. The second the opponents car got to far behind, he would begin going 600 mph until he was right behind you again. The best part though was when it would occasionally glitch, and he wouldn't stop going 600 mph and just lap you multiple times.
X_StickmanNot good enough for a custom title.Join Date: 2003-04-15Member: 15533Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1614664:date=Mar 15 2007, 06:33 PM:name=Xyth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Xyth @ Mar 15 2007, 06:33 PM) [snapback]1614664[/snapback]</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--> Yeah, one of the Need for Speed games on the PSP did this as well. The second the opponents car got to far behind, he would begin going 600 mph until he was right behind you again. The best part though was when it would occasionally glitch, and he wouldn't stop going 600 mph and just lap you multiple times. <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinking about it, there's something similar to this in Freelancer. If you cut your engines and just use your thruster to go maximum speed (using a 2 second burst of it to get back up to top speed whenever you start to slow down), anything chasing you will keep right up. But if you turn around so you're facing them (but still going the same way, so you're going backwards now) they drop back fast. Odd.
Note: They're not just doing the same as you (i.e. cutting off the engine and using bursts of thruster) because they're still doing that circle thing they do, which means their engines are still on. Cheaters. (and the thruster doesn't last that long).
GDI needs more walkers IMO NOD needs more cyborgs.
The game doesn't feel at all like the rest of the Tiberium/an games, there is something lacking...I can't really tell what it is , but I know it's missing.
Comments
I have a hard time adapting to the pace of the game. It's to fast for the little maps I think. Might be it.
It appears to be quiet solid and polished, but like other people have said, offers nothing new. The biggest plus is the GUI, having access to making all units/buildings in the top right is very nicely done (maybe is has been done before, just the first time I have seen it).
Maybe I'll get it someday, but didn't peak my interest enough with basically no new features or gameplay.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that exactly what they did with the very FIRST C&C game?
I haven't played all of the games in the C&C franchise, but at the very beginning they started with a unique system where all production options were on tabs on the right side of the screen. Clicking on the actual buildings that MADE units did nothing. You had one long tab for constructing buildings, and a second tab for constructing units. When a unit was finished, it would automatically emerge from the building of the appropriate type. When a building was finished, it would glow in the production tab, and wait for you to place it. You could also "pause" construction on units at around 95% to acheive a similar effect.
This allowed for interesting tactical options, because you could hold completed structures/units ready in your queue for immediate placement on the map when you wanted them. Once you decided to place it, the unit or building would appear almost instantly for use. For example, you could hold both a barracks and a commando in queue, sneak an engineer into an enemy base to capture some random structure, immediately place the barracks next to it, and immediately spawn the commando at the barracks, allowing him to start wreaking havoc with no delay. You could keep spare copies of any of your important structures ready in case the original got destroyed, for instant replacement. It was fun. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
They all seem to have tried to hard and missed, at least for me, the sweet spot where the fun is.
That's why i'm so buying this game.
This is nothing but old-school CnC. This is, for me, what made RTS games fun, and it still is.
The hammy, over-acted FMV is there, and good god i'm glad it is. Not only does it make a nice departure from ingame cutscenes, but having Michael Ironside and Billy Dee Williams there is enough to have secured a purchase from me regardless of how good the game was. Back when all games tried to do FMV (Gabriel Knight 2, Phantasmagoria, Harvester, blah blah blah) none of them really hit the mark where CnC did and it essentially killed off putting FMV into games. It's good to see it back.
The gameplay is nothing but pure, unadulterated fun. I'm sick of RTS games that impose limits in the amounts of troops you can buy, or the amount of certain types of troops. If i want to pool all my resources into getting an army of Mammoth tanks then i'll do so, i don't want the game telling me that i've built too many or saying "sorry but a mammoth <i>tank</i> needs 10 food" or something, no, i want it made, yes mr esuna, sir! Sure, you might whine and moan that this detracts from the strategy and turn the game into nothing but a zergfest, but hey, that's how i like it.
The Ion Cannon is also pretty cool fyi especially if you take out about 50 of your own squads when you fire it.
(All my old CDs were kinda getting beat)
Time for the next part of the story. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
EA really outdid themselves this time (incoming joke, i know) and they have already pledged full post-launch support for the game, and it just got accepted into WCG 2007...
...aye, awsome!
Edit: I just hope we didn't get all the units and upgrades in the demo, because then I'd have to say, it's kinda lacking :X
It's pretty much just the old CnC I guess, with a few new mechanics - special abilities from buildings and each production building working seperately, instead of extras just lowering build-time for the primary building. While that may be awesome to some, I personally have been corrupted by DoW, CoH, SupCom, and whatnot that has been released since CnC and now, I want more depth *shrug*
I'll probably pick it up when it goes down in price, like.. 100-200dkk (~ 17-35USD or 9-18 British Pounds)
<a href="http://www.worldcybergames.com/6th/2007/Overview/general.asp" target="_blank">Which it is</a>
I was surprised at the stability of the demo and the difficulty of the AI. To bad SupCom AI isnt this hard.
So, yes, the game is speedy and furious, and the AI is berserk. The game might have a few balance issues, too; suicide bombers are unstoppable except by the explosives they wear around their waists, and bombers for both factions tend to wipe away air defenses and obliterate counters without problems at all. Most annoying is the short list of units capable of detecting stealth: pitbulls, upgraded zone troopers, micromanaged orcas, and? Hopefully there's something hiding in the support structure file somewhere, because it's a major pain to rest entire defensive and offensive strategies on such fragile and yet easily excitable units. I'm willing to chalk these up to unfamiliarity with the game and general noobiness, but they stuck out nonetheless.
On a semi-related note, full SupComm offers harder difficulty levels than in the demo: Gamespot mentions "Horde" and "Supreme" settings. But yes, their "medium" difficulty is sad compared to C&C's.
After I saw the 30 tanks over run my 1 tank i think I just laughed as my base exploded. I didnt even try to counter. I just sat there loling over vent how my base got over ran in 5 minutes.
This is pretty off-topic, but I hate games that make their AI "Cheat" to keep from losing. Such as the game giving them free money and such (C&C generals did this, if you killed off everything the comp had to the point where they had no way of getting money and no money (Steal it all with saboteurs)). Then leave them alone for awhile, they would magically get more funds and start building again.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, but RTS AI is very hard to make properly. The only advantage they could ever have is to out produce their opponent. This AI cheats to much lol, 100+ units in 5 minutes lol give me a break.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whats so bad about it. I found the interface to be a improvement over older CnC games, the units blow up real nice, the classic units are there, and the AI is pretty hard in skirmish mode.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I just felt it lacked depth. For me, it lacks variety(Amount of units, upgrades, whatnot) and strategy(what you do with beforementioned). It's just the same old spam tons of units :X That said, they might be holding back units for the full version, and I hope they are, because the current state is kinda sad :X
GDI:
Riflemen
Grenadier
Rocket Soldier
Engineer
Commando
Hum-Vee
APC
Medium Tank
Mammoth Tank
MCV
Rocket-truck
Orca Helicopter
Transport Helicopter
Ion Cannon Strike
NOD:
Riflemen
Rocket Soldier
Flamethrower
Chem-warrior
Engineer
Commando
APC
Recon-Bike
Light Tank
Flame Tank
Stealth Tank
SSM Launcher
MCV
Apache Helicopter
Transport Helicopter
Nuclear Strike
Counters to Stealth: Infantry, guard towers. Detection range was only 1 square. Stealth Tanks could run over infantry, by the way, killing them. However, attacking uncloaked them, and if they were damaged before recloaking you could track them by the smoke they gave off.
Counters to aircraft: Rocket Infantry, Rocket Truck(GDI), Recon Bike(Nod), anti-air guard towers. Aircraft could not be manually targetted during flight, so you had to hope your handful of anti-air units would auto-acquire them and shoot them down. Oh, and Rocket Trucks sucked.
Upgrades: None whatsoever. You progressed through your tech tree just by building a command center, and then an advanced command center if you wanted nukes/ion cannons.
Tbh, I probably wouldn't pay for a remake of Super Mario Bros. 3 with super fancy new graphics. Which it seems C&C3 more or less is. The new stuff I can see is some menu enhancements, "general powers" which was introduced in Generals (now they cost resources though), and a new story (which I'm hardly interested in). And well, I just don't really find the gameplay fun, which is the core of it I suppose, for reasons I've already mentioned. In essence, to me, it's just a rehash, same game with some minor alterations. Some might be interested in that. Me? I'll wait 'til it drops in price, then prolly pick it up so I can actually play some RTS with my mates at LANs.
This is pretty off-topic, but I hate games that make their AI "Cheat" to keep from losing. Such as the game giving them free money and such (C&C generals did this, if you killed off everything the comp had to the point where they had no way of getting money and no money (Steal it all with saboteurs)). Then leave them alone for awhile, they would magically get more funds and start building again.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->FREAKING MARIO KART 64<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
ooh look i used 50 turbos and wario is still "har har har"ing up my a**. this is fair.
<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->FREAKING MARIO KART 64<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
ooh look i used 50 turbos and wario is still "har har har"ing up my a**. this is fair.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, one of the Need for Speed games on the PSP did this as well. The second the opponents car got to far behind, he would begin going 600 mph until he was right behind you again. The best part though was when it would occasionally glitch, and he wouldn't stop going 600 mph and just lap you multiple times.
Yeah, one of the Need for Speed games on the PSP did this as well. The second the opponents car got to far behind, he would begin going 600 mph until he was right behind you again. The best part though was when it would occasionally glitch, and he wouldn't stop going 600 mph and just lap you multiple times.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thinking about it, there's something similar to this in Freelancer. If you cut your engines and just use your thruster to go maximum speed (using a 2 second burst of it to get back up to top speed whenever you start to slow down), anything chasing you will keep right up. But if you turn around so you're facing them (but still going the same way, so you're going backwards now) they drop back fast. Odd.
Note: They're not just doing the same as you (i.e. cutting off the engine and using bursts of thruster) because they're still doing that circle thing they do, which means their engines are still on. Cheaters. (and the thruster doesn't last that long).
NOD needs more cyborgs.
The game doesn't feel at all like the rest of the Tiberium/an games, there is something lacking...I can't really tell what it is , but I know it's missing.