Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Webs are rediculously overpowered in combat in every way imaginable <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And yet they are probably the only sure way to stop ramboing jetpackers from killing a hive by suicide-rushing it over and over and over. Also, they allow aliens to neutralize heavy weapons long enough in the marine base to grab the win - whereas otherwise 6 and more camping lvl3 hmgs tear apart anything that comes into marine spawn.
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 22 2004, 07:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 22 2004, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ZERG!!+Mar 22 2004, 04:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZERG!! @ Mar 22 2004, 04:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Welders aren't an effective web counter any more. The horribly slow ROF now makes so you have to spend time slowly walking forward to unweb stuff. Walk too fast and you get webbed! Wow! What BS! You might as well just walk into the webs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's look at this rationaly. Web's main use is to stop JPers, so why should your welder provide "magic 100% effective" protection against webs? It shouldn't. That was also most likely in mind when the welders "burst fire" mode was implemented.
To me it seems that people often complain about things in combat that they could counter, but don't want to divert points from their weapons to do so.
For example:<ul><li>Focus - God forbid you got armor 1 instead of weapons 1 -> shotty</li><li>Cloaking - OMG you Cloak nub, God forbid you got scanner sweep instead of weapons 2</li><li>Webs - NERF WEB, cause we all know that spending points in combat on anything but weapon upgrades is for n00bs</li></ul> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I do get a welder to counter webs, how do you expect me to know that they are ineffective counters? Welders are supposed to counter webs like all of you have pointed out ty very much. Even back when the ROF was rapid, you could still be webbed due to direct webbing. And it was the fact that you needed to pull out a gun to start doing damage. Even then the old welder didn't grant immunity to webs because direct webbing could still get you.
Dont nerf the webs. Ditch the gorge from combat. It's not a combat class anyway.
As for a jp counter well both the lerk and fade are capable, especialy the lerk.
Get focus, Spore the jp'er to strip his armour, kill.
At the moment though co is either won by fades or jp'ers quite often both teams in the enemy base trying to take the objective down. Co needs a lot of work to be what it was meant webs are the least of our problems.
<!--QuoteBegin-ZERG!!+Mar 23 2004, 03:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZERG!! @ Mar 23 2004, 03:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 22 2004, 07:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 22 2004, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-ZERG!!+Mar 22 2004, 04:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ZERG!! @ Mar 22 2004, 04:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Welders aren't an effective web counter any more. The horribly slow ROF now makes so you have to spend time slowly walking forward to unweb stuff. Walk too fast and you get webbed! Wow! What BS! You might as well just walk into the webs.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's look at this rationaly. Web's main use is to stop JPers, so why should your welder provide "magic 100% effective" protection against webs? It shouldn't. That was also most likely in mind when the welders "burst fire" mode was implemented.
To me it seems that people often complain about things in combat that they could counter, but don't want to divert points from their weapons to do so.
For example:<ul> </li><li>Focus - God forbid you got armor 1 instead of weapons 1 -> shotty </li><li>Cloaking - OMG you Cloak nub, God forbid you got scanner sweep instead of weapons 2 </li><li>Webs - NERF WEB, cause we all know that spending points in combat on anything but weapon upgrades is for n00bs </li></ul> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I do get a welder to counter webs, how do you expect me to know that they are ineffective counters? Welders are supposed to counter webs like all of you have pointed out ty very much. Even back when the ROF was rapid, you could still be webbed due to direct webbing. And it was the fact that you needed to pull out a gun to start doing damage. Even then the old welder didn't grant immunity to webs because direct webbing could still get you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In prior builds, a marine could happily fly around with his jp, welder blazing (this is the 100% effective I was refering to), and pretty much ignore webs. Now people have to be careful. Ohnoes!!1 In contrast, welding someone now removes the webbing. Seems like a fair tade to me. Additionaly, each marine can get a grenade now, which also destroys webs.
Zerg this is by no means personal. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Webs are rediculously overpowered in combat in every way imaginable <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And yet they are probably the only sure way to stop ramboing jetpackers from killing a hive by suicide-rushing it over and over and over. Also, they allow aliens to neutralize heavy weapons long enough in the marine base to grab the win - whereas otherwise 6 and more camping lvl3 hmgs tear apart anything that comes into marine spawn. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Almost, except for the fact that jetpackers currently die in two focus bites I'd hardly call that overpowered
Just because aliens can't properly meanever themselves does NOT mean that webs must stay in combat, webs are awful and reduce the game from a fast-paced action game into a boring stupid game where magical powers rule over all. People want FPS action and webs are not it.
Not to mention, aliens are rediculously and horribly overpowered in combat, they don't need webs to destroy you anyways.
Every game was marine suicide JP rush on hive. Yes, you can kill them but they can empty a clip into the hive before you do -- rinse, repeat until hive dies. (Especially since without gorge, aliens have no way to heal the hive.)
Webs need to stay, because I can't beat a JP without making him stand still first!
/cry more
Webs are terribly overpowered for combat. They were designed as a 3rd hive ability- overpowering. To get this 3rd hive ability in 3 lv's is insane.
Anyone who know's anything about how to truely use webs also knows how strong that they are, and you can't just sit around and spam them/weld them without interference.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Mar 23 2004, 01:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Mar 23 2004, 01:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We played without gorges.
Every game was marine suicide JP rush on hive. Yes, you can kill them but they can empty a clip into the hive before you do -- rinse, repeat until hive dies. (Especially since without gorge, aliens have no way to heal the hive.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> See, what's wrong with your "experiment" is that in the old versions of combat the hive healed itself at a respectible rate, around 15 HP a second. Now it's at 2 HP a second. So if your team could protect the hive with some umbra and could kill the JP in under a clip or two from them, the hive would live, and the rest of your team would get some level up's from the jetpacker. Eventually, if the aliens played defense long enough, then the aliens would all of the sudden break out with onos/fades/lerks who would kill the CC in under 10 seconds.
They should just remove the gorge and increase the hive's heal rate up to 25, then the hive would be a beast and no one would have to play the role of +attack while facing the hive.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
I still do not understand why gorge was put back into combat anyway. CO was good without the gorge... But then u get all the people that complaining around the end of release that gorge should be back in, and it was...
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
GL can counter webbing - both in its offensive and defensive form. By taking out webbing you are justifying individual wins by rambo marines (who will kill the hive even if it heals at 15 hp per second). One stupid Jetpack can put an entire alien team on the defensive. All entrances will have to be watched, then when the jetpacker comes up there will be a struggle to take him down. In that time, the marine team has time to come up and put full force on the hive. What does the alien team have in response to such an influence from the marine team? One onos goes down like a purple fairy, so does one fade trying to attack the command chair. A grenade launcher pretty much cancels lower lifeforms trying to get the chair almost instantly. However, one stupid jetpacker is enough to bother an entire alien team...
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We need to start a collection of key phrases that help define NS. This can be one of them.
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> GL can counter webbing - both in its offensive and defensive form. By taking out webbing you are justifying individual wins by rambo marines (who will kill the hive even if it heals at 15 hp per second). One stupid Jetpack can put an entire alien team on the defensive. All entrances will have to be watched, then when the jetpacker comes up there will be a struggle to take him down. In that time, the marine team has time to come up and put full force on the hive. What does the alien team have in response to such an influence from the marine team? One onos goes down like a purple fairy, so does one fade trying to attack the command chair. A grenade launcher pretty much cancels lower lifeforms trying to get the chair almost instantly. However, one stupid jetpacker is enough to bother an entire alien team...
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No.
Webs do not just stop "lone rambos" who were hardly a threat in the first place, but they also stop ENTIRE TEAMS of marines. One gorge with adren can web up 3 marines, and it's SO EASY to do this, it's not even funny.
NS:C is NOT SUPPOSED to be about strategy like in normal NS. It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
Also, you make it sound like marines have the super jetpack of doom which can single-handedly send an alien team reeling. This just isn't true, if the aliens have any good players jetpackers are very simple to kill. As a lv. 10 lerk I can generally handle hordes of jetpackers (as long as I never have to fight several of them at once, otherwise I just can't bite fast enough), meanwhile, lets say aliens get one focus skulk who sneaks into marine spawn and camps -
game over
One gorge who webs up marine spawn -
game over
Several onos with umbra -
game over
And even without gorges to web up the hive, you have umbra on top of this as well. Sure you can just get a GL, but once you do that you will not be able to actually fend off any aliens.
Webbing is just another advantage in combat that aliens can do without, as they are horribly overpowered as it is.
If it's pubbers who think something is overpowered, its "Veterans adapt, newbies whine". If it's vets who think it's overpowered, then of course, that's the way things "really" are.
I played numerous combat games without gorge. Aliens lost repeatedly to JP suicide rushes. I can kill JPers--that's not the problem. The problem is that it shifts the entire alien team to defense to keep the JPer from unloading even a single clip into the hive.
The one problem with webs is spawning inside webs. The 1 second invunerable spawn time countered that (you couldn't be webbed while invunerable) and it also helped with early game focus-spawn-camp.
I find webs to be essential. Not only as a base defense...but they can really help turn the offensive tide. I mean...if your team is behind a few levels as aliens...there's not much you can do but hunker down and wait the for the hmg train to come. I view the web as the great balancer because it ultimately makes marines sitting ducks and free exp. And as I recall, that's what the web is used for.
Defensivley, you can secure your hive from JPers and such.
Offensively, if you manage to get into the rine base with support...you can lock the marines in place with no guns while the fades and lerks and such have a field day.
I think it's a great weapon. If marines get mines, I vote aliens get webs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Mar 23 2004, 05:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Mar 23 2004, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If it's pubbers who think something is overpowered, its "Veterans adapt, newbies whine". If it's vets who think it's overpowered, then of course, that's the way things "really" are. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yep. I'm glad you could figure this out. People who play the game as close to perfect as possible will naturally understand what makes them win and lose.
Seriously, if you wanted chess advice, would you ask some dude or Gary Kasporov? If you wanted some good basket ball strategies, would you ask some dude or Micheal Jordon, or Larry Bird?
I mean really, I don't see what the problem is here
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The one problem with webs is spawning inside webs. The 1 second invunerable spawn time countered that (you couldn't be webbed while invunerable) and it also helped with early game focus-spawn-camp.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, spawn invulerable time will not protect you from webs, it was a bug
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 23 2004, 05:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 23 2004, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> GL can counter webbing - both in its offensive and defensive form. By taking out webbing you are justifying individual wins by rambo marines (who will kill the hive even if it heals at 15 hp per second). One stupid Jetpack can put an entire alien team on the defensive. All entrances will have to be watched, then when the jetpacker comes up there will be a struggle to take him down. In that time, the marine team has time to come up and put full force on the hive. What does the alien team have in response to such an influence from the marine team? One onos goes down like a purple fairy, so does one fade trying to attack the command chair. A grenade launcher pretty much cancels lower lifeforms trying to get the chair almost instantly. However, one stupid jetpacker is enough to bother an entire alien team...
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No.
Webs do not just stop "lone rambos" who were hardly a threat in the first place, but they also stop ENTIRE TEAMS of marines. One gorge with adren can web up 3 marines, and it's SO EASY to do this, it's not even funny.
NS:C is NOT SUPPOSED to be about strategy like in normal NS. It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
Also, you make it sound like marines have the super jetpack of doom which can single-handedly send an alien team reeling. This just isn't true, if the aliens have any good players jetpackers are very simple to kill. As a lv. 10 lerk I can generally handle hordes of jetpackers (as long as I never have to fight several of them at once, otherwise I just can't bite fast enough), meanwhile, lets say aliens get one focus skulk who sneaks into marine spawn and camps -
game over
One gorge who webs up marine spawn -
game over
Several onos with umbra -
game over
And even without gorges to web up the hive, you have umbra on top of this as well. Sure you can just get a GL, but once you do that you will not be able to actually fend off any aliens.
Webbing is just another advantage in combat that aliens can do without, as they are horribly overpowered as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You point out that a gorge can easily bind multiple marines with web, which is true. However, while webs can easily end games and catapult aliens into a game advantage, you can't escape the fact that they play a crucial role in many situations from which the aliens cannot recover. I mentioned jetpacks (and they DO kill the hive, even if you take them down midway through their clip - even then, as I mentioned before, you are reduced to defense), now I will mention lvl10 marines who camp their base.
Combat will not become pure fragging FPS fun simply through the removal of the gorge or umbra. The fact that there is a hive, a command chair, and designated spawning points clearly makes that utopia impossible. At the moment, combat is a twisted mix of classic with deathmatch and obviously there are problems resulting from this. However, removing the gorge/umbra will just throw the balance into the marine's hands. If you stop thinking about playing the game from the marine perspective and look at it from the alien point of view, combat sucks because you have to use teamwork and strategy already (this is a given). When you lose your options, it becomes even more difficult.
I've played with vets, and I've played with pubs. There are only a few vets that really impress me with their individual skill, and I've seen just as many non-vets with the incredible skills. Yeah, they have better teamwork when they play as a clan then a pub team, but I don't see CO as a clan-oriented game.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Mar 23 2004, 08:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Mar 23 2004, 08:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've played with vets, and I've played with pubs. There are only a few vets that really impress me with their individual skill, and I've seen just as many non-vets with the incredible skills. Yeah, they have better teamwork when they play as a clan then a pub team, but I don't see CO as a clan-oriented game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> VETERS SUKX OLOLOL
<!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Mar 23 2004, 08:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Mar 23 2004, 08:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 23 2004, 05:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 23 2004, 05:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Sarisel+Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sarisel @ Mar 23 2004, 04:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> GL can counter webbing - both in its offensive and defensive form. By taking out webbing you are justifying individual wins by rambo marines (who will kill the hive even if it heals at 15 hp per second). One stupid Jetpack can put an entire alien team on the defensive. All entrances will have to be watched, then when the jetpacker comes up there will be a struggle to take him down. In that time, the marine team has time to come up and put full force on the hive. What does the alien team have in response to such an influence from the marine team? One onos goes down like a purple fairy, so does one fade trying to attack the command chair. A grenade launcher pretty much cancels lower lifeforms trying to get the chair almost instantly. However, one stupid jetpacker is enough to bother an entire alien team...
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No.
Webs do not just stop "lone rambos" who were hardly a threat in the first place, but they also stop ENTIRE TEAMS of marines. One gorge with adren can web up 3 marines, and it's SO EASY to do this, it's not even funny.
NS:C is NOT SUPPOSED to be about strategy like in normal NS. It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
Also, you make it sound like marines have the super jetpack of doom which can single-handedly send an alien team reeling. This just isn't true, if the aliens have any good players jetpackers are very simple to kill. As a lv. 10 lerk I can generally handle hordes of jetpackers (as long as I never have to fight several of them at once, otherwise I just can't bite fast enough), meanwhile, lets say aliens get one focus skulk who sneaks into marine spawn and camps -
game over
One gorge who webs up marine spawn -
game over
Several onos with umbra -
game over
And even without gorges to web up the hive, you have umbra on top of this as well. Sure you can just get a GL, but once you do that you will not be able to actually fend off any aliens.
Webbing is just another advantage in combat that aliens can do without, as they are horribly overpowered as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You point out that a gorge can easily bind multiple marines with web, which is true. However, while webs can easily end games and catapult aliens into a game advantage, you can't escape the fact that they play a crucial role in many situations from which the aliens cannot recover. I mentioned jetpacks (and they DO kill the hive, even if you take them down midway through their clip - even then, as I mentioned before, you are reduced to defense), now I will mention lvl10 marines who camp their base.
Combat will not become pure fragging FPS fun simply through the removal of the gorge or umbra. The fact that there is a hive, a command chair, and designated spawning points clearly makes that utopia impossible. At the moment, combat is a twisted mix of classic with deathmatch and obviously there are problems resulting from this. However, removing the gorge/umbra will just throw the balance into the marine's hands. If you stop thinking about playing the game from the marine perspective and look at it from the alien point of view, combat sucks because you have to use teamwork and strategy already (this is a given). When you lose your options, it becomes even more difficult. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's not true. Aliens have PLENTY of advantages without webbing. Webbing is just the final step they need to ensure an almost 100 % rate of success. If aliens mange to web up their hive well, there is NO WAY to beat that.
I speak up from clan and pub experience. Marines can be 3 levels ahead of aliens, they will be slaughtering aliens, HA and JP's will be marching towards the hive, and all it takes to stop it is for one skulk to get two level ups (gorge + adren), start healing the hive, and in less than a minute the hive will be covered with webs.
Comebacks, while nice in normal NS, do not belong in regular CO. A comeback in CO means something VERY overpowered was exploited, not 'good teamwork' or any other crap you wanna throw at this situation.
Also, I've been trying to get demo's of the UGL combat finals of #cri versus exigent, where there are 3 alien wins, 2 of them being exigent so they won the finals.
It was a very difficult and fun game, but both teams know overall it sucked because how horribly unfair the aliens are.
The demo's, as soon as amped's lazy butt hosts them for the public, will show you first hand of what I speak of.
Forlorn: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just out of the blue here but wasnt CO meant for being the step stone for every beginner out there to learn the game mechanics before going to Classic? Anyhows, thats what i'v understood it all along.
As for the other statements, i can agree that when someone goes gorge and starts webbing the game will normally turn very much to aliens frag fest. But that doesnt mean that the problem is in the webs. Webs are essential part of NS, when Flayra removes them from classic by all means remove them from classic aswell but i dont thing that day will ever happen. As i said before CO is a step stone for Classic, atleast thats what i think. How about we dont try to remove things that are essential to classic and try to find something other essential to change in both CO and Classic. While that may seem difficult but i dont see any other way.
Some of you people say that we should be able to kill those rambo jpers and that is our problem but isnt it also ur to be able to kill a gorge COME ON it is a fat little pudgy ( <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif' /><!--endemo--> )thing that dies ezily and u guys cant kill it
<!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Mar 24 2004, 10:41 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Mar 24 2004, 10:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Forlorn: <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just out of the blue here but wasnt CO meant for being the step stone for every beginner out there to learn the game mechanics before going to Classic? Anyhows, thats what i'v understood it all along.
As for the other statements, i can agree that when someone goes gorge and starts webbing the game will normally turn very much to aliens frag fest. But that doesnt mean that the problem is in the webs. Webs are essential part of NS, when Flayra removes them from classic by all means remove them from classic aswell but i dont thing that day will ever happen. As i said before CO is a step stone for Classic, atleast thats what i think. How about we dont try to remove things that are essential to classic and try to find something other essential to change in both CO and Classic. While that may seem difficult but i dont see any other way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> First off, NS:C was not made to be a tutorial, but more of a transition type game between NS, NS:C, and your typical FPS game (CS, DoD, TFC, FA, etc.)
Every player can understand NS:C because it rewards killing the enemy in a simple and basic way, just like every other FPS game in existance right now.
Next.
Saying webs are an 'essentail' part of classic is wrong. Webs aren't used that much in classic except to completely dominate the marines. It's part of all 3 hive abilities which basically say, "You lose!" to the marines.
Therefore, it makes no sense when you say 'webs' are an essential part of combat, simply because it is not, just like it is not an essiental part of classic.
Webbing IS the problem, simply because I have played builds with and without webs, and the difference the two builds is enourmous. Webs suck, ruin the gameplay, the automsphere, and take 1/10th the skill to use properly that it takes the marine team to counter.
Denying webs are flawed is like denying the ground under your feet.
I like Webs. I spend 90% of my playtime as a Gorge. Webs are my friend. You know what isn't my friend? n00b Gorges who feel the need to waste the team's already precious Web limit by putting 90 vertical strands in an isolated corridor between two hives with no OC support. Okay, the LMGer is stuck for 5 seconds, looks around, sees no threat, and moves into the other webs just to clear them out. Great tactic there, NSPlayer.
Webs are fine. Webs are good. Web nerf is bad. Web limit nerf is VERY bad. I'd really like to see the Team Limit restored to the 2.01 amount, but the Player Limit stay the same. That means that one or two moron Gorges can't ruin the entire team's Webbing chances by putting them on the @#$%ing ceilings during an HA train. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A JP with Resupply > Aliens in CO without Webbing. Way to go.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Mar 25 2004, 01:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Mar 25 2004, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I deny the ground under my feet. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In other words, you want webs, dispite what effect it has on balance. You'd rather see balance altered so that webs can remain in combat.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gold Leader+Mar 25 2004, 12:20 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gold Leader @ Mar 25 2004, 12:20 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I haven't played any combat scrims but I can picture why web would be powerful when used in the right fashion.
I guess you could increase the adrenaline cost of the web that way you could only directly web one marine at a time...
Statistical evidence has shown that aliens win more often than marines in CO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'd like to see these so-called statistics.
Comments
LOL
no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OmG H4x
Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Webs are rediculously overpowered in combat in every way imaginable
LOL
no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OmG H4x
Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Webs are rediculously overpowered in combat in every way imaginable <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet they are probably the only sure way to stop ramboing jetpackers from killing a hive by suicide-rushing it over and over and over. Also, they allow aliens to neutralize heavy weapons long enough in the marine base to grab the win - whereas otherwise 6 and more camping lvl3 hmgs tear apart anything that comes into marine spawn.
Let's look at this rationaly. Web's main use is to stop JPers, so why should your welder provide "magic 100% effective" protection against webs? It shouldn't. That was also most likely in mind when the welders "burst fire" mode was implemented.
To me it seems that people often complain about things in combat that they could counter, but don't want to divert points from their weapons to do so.
For example:<ul><li>Focus - God forbid you got armor 1 instead of weapons 1 -> shotty</li><li>Cloaking - OMG you Cloak nub, God forbid you got scanner sweep instead of weapons 2</li><li>Webs - NERF WEB, cause we all know that spending points in combat on anything but weapon upgrades is for n00bs</li></ul> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do get a welder to counter webs, how do you expect me to know that they are ineffective counters? Welders are supposed to counter webs like all of you have pointed out ty very much. Even back when the ROF was rapid, you could still be webbed due to direct webbing. And it was the fact that you needed to pull out a gun to start doing damage. Even then the old welder didn't grant immunity to webs because direct webbing could still get you.
As for a jp counter well both the lerk and fade are capable, especialy the lerk.
Get focus, Spore the jp'er to strip his armour, kill.
At the moment though co is either won by fades or jp'ers quite often both teams in the enemy base trying to take the objective down. Co needs a lot of work to be what it was meant webs are the least of our problems.
Let's look at this rationaly. Web's main use is to stop JPers, so why should your welder provide "magic 100% effective" protection against webs? It shouldn't. That was also most likely in mind when the welders "burst fire" mode was implemented.
To me it seems that people often complain about things in combat that they could counter, but don't want to divert points from their weapons to do so.
For example:<ul>
</li><li>Focus - God forbid you got armor 1 instead of weapons 1 -> shotty
</li><li>Cloaking - OMG you Cloak nub, God forbid you got scanner sweep instead of weapons 2
</li><li>Webs - NERF WEB, cause we all know that spending points in combat on anything but weapon upgrades is for n00bs
</li></ul> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do get a welder to counter webs, how do you expect me to know that they are ineffective counters? Welders are supposed to counter webs like all of you have pointed out ty very much. Even back when the ROF was rapid, you could still be webbed due to direct webbing. And it was the fact that you needed to pull out a gun to start doing damage. Even then the old welder didn't grant immunity to webs because direct webbing could still get you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In prior builds, a marine could happily fly around with his jp, welder blazing (this is the 100% effective I was refering to), and pretty much ignore webs. Now people have to be careful. Ohnoes!!1 In contrast, welding someone now removes the webbing. Seems like a fair tade to me. Additionaly, each marine can get a grenade now, which also destroys webs.
Zerg this is by no means personal. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
LOL
no. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OmG H4x
Yes. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Webs are rediculously overpowered in combat in every way imaginable <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And yet they are probably the only sure way to stop ramboing jetpackers from killing a hive by suicide-rushing it over and over and over. Also, they allow aliens to neutralize heavy weapons long enough in the marine base to grab the win - whereas otherwise 6 and more camping lvl3 hmgs tear apart anything that comes into marine spawn. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Almost, except for the fact that jetpackers currently die in two focus bites I'd hardly call that overpowered
Just because aliens can't properly meanever themselves does NOT mean that webs must stay in combat, webs are awful and reduce the game from a fast-paced action game into a boring stupid game where magical powers rule over all. People want FPS action and webs are not it.
Not to mention, aliens are rediculously and horribly overpowered in combat, they don't need webs to destroy you anyways.
Every game was marine suicide JP rush on hive. Yes, you can kill them but they can empty a clip into the hive before you do -- rinse, repeat until hive dies. (Especially since without gorge, aliens have no way to heal the hive.)
/cry more
Webs are terribly overpowered for combat. They were designed as a 3rd hive ability- overpowering. To get this 3rd hive ability in 3 lv's is insane.
Anyone who know's anything about how to truely use webs also knows how strong that they are, and you can't just sit around and spam them/weld them without interference.
Every game was marine suicide JP rush on hive. Yes, you can kill them but they can empty a clip into the hive before you do -- rinse, repeat until hive dies. (Especially since without gorge, aliens have no way to heal the hive.) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
See, what's wrong with your "experiment" is that in the old versions of combat the hive healed itself at a respectible rate, around 15 HP a second. Now it's at 2 HP a second. So if your team could protect the hive with some umbra and could kill the JP in under a clip or two from them, the hive would live, and the rest of your team would get some level up's from the jetpacker. Eventually, if the aliens played defense long enough, then the aliens would all of the sudden break out with onos/fades/lerks who would kill the CC in under 10 seconds.
They should just remove the gorge and increase the hive's heal rate up to 25, then the hive would be a beast and no one would have to play the role of +attack while facing the hive.
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched.
We need to start a collection of key phrases that help define NS. This can be one of them.
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
Webs do not just stop "lone rambos" who were hardly a threat in the first place, but they also stop ENTIRE TEAMS of marines. One gorge with adren can web up 3 marines, and it's SO EASY to do this, it's not even funny.
NS:C is NOT SUPPOSED to be about strategy like in normal NS. It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
Also, you make it sound like marines have the super jetpack of doom which can single-handedly send an alien team reeling. This just isn't true, if the aliens have any good players jetpackers are very simple to kill. As a lv. 10 lerk I can generally handle hordes of jetpackers (as long as I never have to fight several of them at once, otherwise I just can't bite fast enough), meanwhile, lets say aliens get one focus skulk who sneaks into marine spawn and camps -
game over
One gorge who webs up marine spawn -
game over
Several onos with umbra -
game over
And even without gorges to web up the hive, you have umbra on top of this as well. Sure you can just get a GL, but once you do that you will not be able to actually fend off any aliens.
Webbing is just another advantage in combat that aliens can do without, as they are horribly overpowered as it is.
I played numerous combat games without gorge. Aliens lost repeatedly to JP suicide rushes. I can kill JPers--that's not the problem. The problem is that it shifts the entire alien team to defense to keep the JPer from unloading even a single clip into the hive.
The one problem with webs is spawning inside webs. The 1 second invunerable spawn time countered that (you couldn't be webbed while invunerable) and it also helped with early game focus-spawn-camp.
Defensivley, you can secure your hive from JPers and such.
Offensively, if you manage to get into the rine base with support...you can lock the marines in place with no guns while the fades and lerks and such have a field day.
I think it's a great weapon. If marines get mines, I vote aliens get webs.
Yep. I'm glad you could figure this out. People who play the game as close to perfect as possible will naturally understand what makes them win and lose.
Seriously, if you wanted chess advice, would you ask some dude or Gary Kasporov? If you wanted some good basket ball strategies, would you ask some dude or Micheal Jordon, or Larry Bird?
I mean really, I don't see what the problem is here
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The one problem with webs is spawning inside webs. The 1 second invunerable spawn time countered that (you couldn't be webbed while invunerable) and it also helped with early game focus-spawn-camp.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, spawn invulerable time will not protect you from webs, it was a bug
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
Webs do not just stop "lone rambos" who were hardly a threat in the first place, but they also stop ENTIRE TEAMS of marines. One gorge with adren can web up 3 marines, and it's SO EASY to do this, it's not even funny.
NS:C is NOT SUPPOSED to be about strategy like in normal NS. It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
Also, you make it sound like marines have the super jetpack of doom which can single-handedly send an alien team reeling. This just isn't true, if the aliens have any good players jetpackers are very simple to kill. As a lv. 10 lerk I can generally handle hordes of jetpackers (as long as I never have to fight several of them at once, otherwise I just can't bite fast enough), meanwhile, lets say aliens get one focus skulk who sneaks into marine spawn and camps -
game over
One gorge who webs up marine spawn -
game over
Several onos with umbra -
game over
And even without gorges to web up the hive, you have umbra on top of this as well. Sure you can just get a GL, but once you do that you will not be able to actually fend off any aliens.
Webbing is just another advantage in combat that aliens can do without, as they are horribly overpowered as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You point out that a gorge can easily bind multiple marines with web, which is true. However, while webs can easily end games and catapult aliens into a game advantage, you can't escape the fact that they play a crucial role in many situations from which the aliens cannot recover. I mentioned jetpacks (and they DO kill the hive, even if you take them down midway through their clip - even then, as I mentioned before, you are reduced to defense), now I will mention lvl10 marines who camp their base.
Combat will not become pure fragging FPS fun simply through the removal of the gorge or umbra. The fact that there is a hive, a command chair, and designated spawning points clearly makes that utopia impossible. At the moment, combat is a twisted mix of classic with deathmatch and obviously there are problems resulting from this. However, removing the gorge/umbra will just throw the balance into the marine's hands. If you stop thinking about playing the game from the marine perspective and look at it from the alien point of view, combat sucks because you have to use teamwork and strategy already (this is a given). When you lose your options, it becomes even more difficult.
VETERS SUKX OLOLOL
If webs stay, there is incentive for marines to work together. One marine with a grenade launcher to cut down the webs and clear out gorges, others with shotgun/hmg to get rid of offensive lifeforms. How overpowered is that? It is the same process with aliens where everyone needs to work together to beat a high-level team of marines with no easy turnovers (unless it is a very small game, which is a different issue).
Webs are not overpowered unless you're doing lone missions trying to be the hero of the day. They put you in your place - webbed on the ground and dispatched. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No.
Webs do not just stop "lone rambos" who were hardly a threat in the first place, but they also stop ENTIRE TEAMS of marines. One gorge with adren can web up 3 marines, and it's SO EASY to do this, it's not even funny.
NS:C is NOT SUPPOSED to be about strategy like in normal NS. It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
Also, you make it sound like marines have the super jetpack of doom which can single-handedly send an alien team reeling. This just isn't true, if the aliens have any good players jetpackers are very simple to kill. As a lv. 10 lerk I can generally handle hordes of jetpackers (as long as I never have to fight several of them at once, otherwise I just can't bite fast enough), meanwhile, lets say aliens get one focus skulk who sneaks into marine spawn and camps -
game over
One gorge who webs up marine spawn -
game over
Several onos with umbra -
game over
And even without gorges to web up the hive, you have umbra on top of this as well. Sure you can just get a GL, but once you do that you will not be able to actually fend off any aliens.
Webbing is just another advantage in combat that aliens can do without, as they are horribly overpowered as it is. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You point out that a gorge can easily bind multiple marines with web, which is true. However, while webs can easily end games and catapult aliens into a game advantage, you can't escape the fact that they play a crucial role in many situations from which the aliens cannot recover. I mentioned jetpacks (and they DO kill the hive, even if you take them down midway through their clip - even then, as I mentioned before, you are reduced to defense), now I will mention lvl10 marines who camp their base.
Combat will not become pure fragging FPS fun simply through the removal of the gorge or umbra. The fact that there is a hive, a command chair, and designated spawning points clearly makes that utopia impossible. At the moment, combat is a twisted mix of classic with deathmatch and obviously there are problems resulting from this. However, removing the gorge/umbra will just throw the balance into the marine's hands. If you stop thinking about playing the game from the marine perspective and look at it from the alien point of view, combat sucks because you have to use teamwork and strategy already (this is a given). When you lose your options, it becomes even more difficult. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's not true. Aliens have PLENTY of advantages without webbing. Webbing is just the final step they need to ensure an almost 100 % rate of success. If aliens mange to web up their hive well, there is NO WAY to beat that.
I speak up from clan and pub experience. Marines can be 3 levels ahead of aliens, they will be slaughtering aliens, HA and JP's will be marching towards the hive, and all it takes to stop it is for one skulk to get two level ups (gorge + adren), start healing the hive, and in less than a minute the hive will be covered with webs.
Comebacks, while nice in normal NS, do not belong in regular CO. A comeback in CO means something VERY overpowered was exploited, not 'good teamwork' or any other crap you wanna throw at this situation.
Also, I've been trying to get demo's of the UGL combat finals of #cri versus exigent, where there are 3 alien wins, 2 of them being exigent so they won the finals.
It was a very difficult and fun game, but both teams know overall it sucked because how horribly unfair the aliens are.
The demo's, as soon as amped's lazy butt hosts them for the public, will show you first hand of what I speak of.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just out of the blue here but wasnt CO meant for being the step stone for every beginner out there to learn the game mechanics before going to Classic? Anyhows, thats what i'v understood it all along.
As for the other statements, i can agree that when someone goes gorge and starts webbing the game will normally turn very much to aliens frag fest. But that doesnt mean that the problem is in the webs. Webs are essential part of NS, when Flayra removes them from classic by all means remove them from classic aswell but i dont thing that day will ever happen. As i said before CO is a step stone for Classic, atleast thats what i think. How about we dont try to remove things that are essential to classic and try to find something other essential to change in both CO and Classic. While that may seem difficult but i dont see any other way.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It's supposed to be about pure fragging FPS fun, and webs completely negates that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just out of the blue here but wasnt CO meant for being the step stone for every beginner out there to learn the game mechanics before going to Classic? Anyhows, thats what i'v understood it all along.
As for the other statements, i can agree that when someone goes gorge and starts webbing the game will normally turn very much to aliens frag fest. But that doesnt mean that the problem is in the webs. Webs are essential part of NS, when Flayra removes them from classic by all means remove them from classic aswell but i dont thing that day will ever happen. As i said before CO is a step stone for Classic, atleast thats what i think. How about we dont try to remove things that are essential to classic and try to find something other essential to change in both CO and Classic. While that may seem difficult but i dont see any other way. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
First off, NS:C was not made to be a tutorial, but more of a transition type game between NS, NS:C, and your typical FPS game (CS, DoD, TFC, FA, etc.)
Every player can understand NS:C because it rewards killing the enemy in a simple and basic way, just like every other FPS game in existance right now.
Next.
Saying webs are an 'essentail' part of classic is wrong. Webs aren't used that much in classic except to completely dominate the marines. It's part of all 3 hive abilities which basically say, "You lose!" to the marines.
Therefore, it makes no sense when you say 'webs' are an essential part of combat, simply because it is not, just like it is not an essiental part of classic.
Webbing IS the problem, simply because I have played builds with and without webs, and the difference the two builds is enourmous. Webs suck, ruin the gameplay, the automsphere, and take 1/10th the skill to use properly that it takes the marine team to counter.
Denying webs are flawed is like denying the ground under your feet.
Webs are fine. Webs are good. Web nerf is bad. Web limit nerf is VERY bad. I'd really like to see the Team Limit restored to the 2.01 amount, but the Player Limit stay the same. That means that one or two moron Gorges can't ruin the entire team's Webbing chances by putting them on the @#$%ing ceilings during an HA train. <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A JP with Resupply > Aliens in CO without Webbing. Way to go.
In other words, you want webs, dispite what effect it has on balance. You'd rather see balance altered so that webs can remain in combat.
I see.
I guess you could increase the adrenaline cost of the web that way you could only directly web one marine at a time...
Statistical evidence has shown that aliens win more often than marines in CO.
O_o
I guess you could increase the adrenaline cost of the web that way you could only directly web one marine at a time...
Statistical evidence has shown that aliens win more often than marines in CO. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd like to see these so-called statistics.