<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Mar 31 2004, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Mar 31 2004, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And does anyone notice, that JP/HA can die real easy due to webbing, but mines arn't gonna stop that fade/onos? So the whole mines = webbing comparison is flawed, in the sense that mines are far too weak and would need to deal a whole heck of a lot more to be compared fairly to webbing, which would screw around with balance. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Fades would die really quick too if they stepped on as many mines as it takes webs to hold down a JP or an HA long enough to kill them.
Maybe the solution to this is to impose a limit on mines similar to those of webs, and then considerably lower the number of webs allowed. So instead of 8 per area, 4 per area -- both mines *and* webs, and marines with mines can lay them out as willy nilly as gorges with webs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Kwil+Apr 3 2004, 03:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kwil @ Apr 3 2004, 03:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Mar 31 2004, 02:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Mar 31 2004, 02:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And does anyone notice, that JP/HA can die real easy due to webbing, but mines arn't gonna stop that fade/onos? So the whole mines = webbing comparison is flawed, in the sense that mines are far too weak and would need to deal a whole heck of a lot more to be compared fairly to webbing, which would screw around with balance. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fades would die really quick too if they stepped on as many mines as it takes webs to hold down a JP or an HA long enough to kill them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> wrong
4 webs is the max amount of times you can be webbed for max effectiveness (5 sec webbing)
Meanwhile 4 mines do nothing to a fade, and you cannot throw mines at a fade... the fade must be dumb enough to hit them.
4 webs is the max amount of times you can be webbed for max effectiveness (5 sec webbing)
Meanwhile 4 mines do nothing to a fade, and you cannot throw mines at a fade... the fade must be dumb enough to hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry, how is that wrong? The max amount that can hit an HA have nothing to do with how many are required to ensure the HA goes down. Considering they deal no damage, it's entirely conceivable that an infinite amount of webs would be required. However, let's say the gorge is good enough to perfectly nail the HA with spit while he's webbed. Would one "max amount" of webbing on the HA guaruntee it goes down from gorge spit?
Doubtful. The gorge likely has to do at least another full set of webs. So now we're up to 8.. will 8 mines kill a fade?
Yeah, I know, teamwork.. hold him down so the others can get him. But that works both ways.. mines to damage, teamwork to finish off.
Webs are a tool used to ease the painful fact that marines have powerful ranged weapons that tear anything short of an Onos down in a few seconds (once you acquire webs). Then there's the usage of webs : To pin down marines to give your lifeforms a better chance against them. Using webs will nullify the main advantage of ranged attacks, and with webs being a 3 hive ability, I don't see any problem with it. Plus, for webs to effectively work, you need a couple of teammates with powerful melee attacks(which are the majority of them anyway)
Shotguns are the comparable equivalent of webs. Again, we use the 'marines = teamwork' notion. 4 shotguns can pretty much down anything, again short of an Onos, when they get within range.
Therefore, shotguns are the close equivalent of webs, and if webs are removed, then so should shotguns, to kep each team to their specific advantages. Meaning aliens will be based on pure melee, with weak ranged atacks, and marines will be stuck with long-ranged weapons the hurt, paired with weak melee weapons.
4 webs is the max amount of times you can be webbed for max effectiveness (5 sec webbing)
Meanwhile 4 mines do nothing to a fade, and you cannot throw mines at a fade... the fade must be dumb enough to hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry, how is that wrong? The max amount that can hit an HA have nothing to do with how many are required to ensure the HA goes down. Considering they deal no damage, it's entirely conceivable that an infinite amount of webs would be required. However, let's say the gorge is good enough to perfectly nail the HA with spit while he's webbed. Would one "max amount" of webbing on the HA guaruntee it goes down from gorge spit?
Doubtful. The gorge likely has to do at least another full set of webs. So now we're up to 8.. will 8 mines kill a fade?
Yeah, I know, teamwork.. hold him down so the others can get him. But that works both ways.. mines to damage, teamwork to finish off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, you missed my point:
4 mines will not kill fade, whereas 4 webs are enough to kill several HA. Of course, with "teamwork" but that's a rediculous statement to begain with.
Webs are a tool used to ease the painful fact that marines have powerful ranged weapons that tear anything short of an Onos down in a few seconds (once you acquire webs). Then there's the usage of webs : To pin down marines to give your lifeforms a better chance against them. Using webs will nullify the main advantage of ranged attacks, and with webs being a 3 hive ability, I don't see any problem with it. Plus, for webs to effectively work, you need a couple of teammates with powerful melee attacks(which are the majority of them anyway)
Shotguns are the comparable equivalent of webs. Again, we use the 'marines = teamwork' notion. 4 shotguns can pretty much down anything, again short of an Onos, when they get within range.
Therefore, shotguns are the close equivalent of webs, and if webs are removed, then so should shotguns, to kep each team to their specific advantages. Meaning aliens will be based on pure melee, with weak ranged atacks, and marines will be stuck with long-ranged weapons the hurt, paired with weak melee weapons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Webs aren't the only thing that nullify ranged attacks. Think about it: Leap, Umbra, Lerk Flight, Blink, Stomp etc. are all designed specifically to counter the ranged advantage of the marines. And the shotgun is not the one-size-fits-all counter to melee aliens either (in combat a least). A fade can blink in, swipe one marine down, blink out and suffer minimal damage. Umbra reduces the effectiveness of the shotguns as well, and its pretty hard to hit a celerity/leap skulk or a celerity/adrenaline lerk (again this could happen only in combat mode).
Problem is that those don't <b>totally</b> nullify the range advantage. Leaping skulks can still be hit with lucky stray shots, and focused fire in an Umbra cloud can still kill anything that has low health. Blink is sort of a counter, but those with real shrap eyes can pretty much pick them out during their blinking time (Due to blink being a flying-celerity on steroids) and it takes some practise to get to land right where you want to land with blink.
Web is the only weapon that can totally nullify such range advantage, and yet, marines don't have one. Maybe that's why people are complaining.
Nevertheless, it's a 3 hive ability, so its use is up to the user. The user can try and use it the right way, or use it to his own creativity.
But I do agree it sucks to be webbed all day long by a Gorge, but what can I say? That's NS.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
Webs don't only nullify ranged advantage. They just nullify the marine, immobilizing it for 5 seconds at a time. They nullify multiple marines if the gorge is any good.
Again, this is only a problem with web 'solidifying' right away. Give it a short delay and it wont be able to stop a whole team of marines while keeping its area denial/defensive properties. This has been asked for since 1.0...something.
I'm not a big fan of combat as is so it doesn't bug me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> But it takes time to even get Webs, 1 for gorge, 1 for unlock ability #1 and then again for unlocking ability #2 (Or however they do it, I rarely unlock abilities so.), So that's 3 points spent to get to use webs, and in NS games you need to get 3 hives, so I think if someone spends the points or time getting hives, it's fine.
The only skill I see as maybe needing to go or neeing improvement is Primal Scream, but maybe I'm just not using it right, I just don't see it used very often is all :o
Have one marine have a welder indefinitely aiming at the gorge, no webbing is possible, one of your teammate's webbed? Weld him and no more webbed teammate....if he gets webbed and you make 1-3 gorges useless, horrah.
It'll make one of your men useless but nullify 1-3 gorges, good benefit and the welder can weld the other's armor.
JP rambos deserve to die, but they can always fly through welding webs then fire at will at the hive.
<!--QuoteBegin-Thardin+Apr 7 2004, 01:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thardin @ Apr 7 2004, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Have one marine have a welder indefinitely aiming at the gorge, no webbing is possible, one of your teammate's webbed? Weld him and no more webbed teammate....if he gets webbed and you make 1-3 gorges useless, horrah.
It'll make one of your men useless but nullify 1-3 gorges, good benefit and the welder can weld the other's armor.
JP rambos deserve to die, but they can always fly through welding webs then fire at will at the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's still possible to get webbed if you have the welder in front. The welder needs to be behind welding the guy with the gun. Welding him removes webs, he shoots gorge, gorge dies.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ahnteis+Apr 7 2004, 05:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Apr 7 2004, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Thardin+Apr 7 2004, 01:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thardin @ Apr 7 2004, 01:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Have one marine have a welder indefinitely aiming at the gorge, no webbing is possible, one of your teammate's webbed? Weld him and no more webbed teammate....if he gets webbed and you make 1-3 gorges useless, horrah.
It'll make one of your men useless but nullify 1-3 gorges, good benefit and the welder can weld the other's armor.
JP rambos deserve to die, but they can always fly through welding webs then fire at will at the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's still possible to get webbed if you have the welder in front. The welder needs to be behind welding the guy with the gun. Welding him removes webs, he shoots gorge, gorge dies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> In reality, the person who was welding is webbed up, and the other dude is re-welded, and one skulk comes along and kills two lv. 10 guys. Great fun.
The other possible scenerio:
Guy who welds is attacked by something, pulls out his weapon to defend himself, is webbed, right next to his other buddy, and then a lv. 3 lerk comes along and kills each with 10 bites. Great fun.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Apr 8 2004, 08:37 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Apr 8 2004, 08:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wait...we can weld someone to remove their 'Webbed' status now?! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah. It still takes like a second for them to become unwelded, but yeah.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Apr 4 2004, 02:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Apr 4 2004, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Again, this is only a problem with web 'solidifying' right away. Give it a short delay and it wont be able to stop a whole team of marines while keeping its area denial/defensive properties. This has been asked for since 1.0...something. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Comments
Fades would die really quick too if they stepped on as many mines as it takes webs to hold down a JP or an HA long enough to kill them.
Maybe the solution to this is to impose a limit on mines similar to those of webs, and then considerably lower the number of webs allowed. So instead of 8 per area, 4 per area -- both mines *and* webs, and marines with mines can lay them out as willy nilly as gorges with webs.
Fades would die really quick too if they stepped on as many mines as it takes webs to hold down a JP or an HA long enough to kill them.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
wrong
4 webs is the max amount of times you can be webbed for max effectiveness (5 sec webbing)
Meanwhile 4 mines do nothing to a fade, and you cannot throw mines at a fade... the fade must be dumb enough to hit them.
wrong
4 webs is the max amount of times you can be webbed for max effectiveness (5 sec webbing)
Meanwhile 4 mines do nothing to a fade, and you cannot throw mines at a fade... the fade must be dumb enough to hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, how is that wrong? The max amount that can hit an HA have nothing to do with how many are required to ensure the HA goes down. Considering they deal no damage, it's entirely conceivable that an infinite amount of webs would be required. However, let's say the gorge is good enough to perfectly nail the HA with spit while he's webbed. Would one "max amount" of webbing on the HA guaruntee it goes down from gorge spit?
Doubtful. The gorge likely has to do at least another full set of webs. So now we're up to 8.. will 8 mines kill a fade?
Yeah, I know, teamwork.. hold him down so the others can get him. But that works both ways.. mines to damage, teamwork to finish off.
I guess I really have to barge in then....
Webs are a tool used to ease the painful fact that marines have powerful ranged weapons that tear anything short of an Onos down in a few seconds (once you acquire webs). Then there's the usage of webs : To pin down marines to give your lifeforms a better chance against them. Using webs will nullify the main advantage of ranged attacks, and with webs being a 3 hive ability, I don't see any problem with it. Plus, for webs to effectively work, you need a couple of teammates with powerful melee attacks(which are the majority of them anyway)
Shotguns are the comparable equivalent of webs. Again, we use the 'marines = teamwork' notion. 4 shotguns can pretty much down anything, again short of an Onos, when they get within range.
Therefore, shotguns are the close equivalent of webs, and if webs are removed, then so should shotguns, to kep each team to their specific advantages. Meaning aliens will be based on pure melee, with weak ranged atacks, and marines will be stuck with long-ranged weapons the hurt, paired with weak melee weapons.
wrong
4 webs is the max amount of times you can be webbed for max effectiveness (5 sec webbing)
Meanwhile 4 mines do nothing to a fade, and you cannot throw mines at a fade... the fade must be dumb enough to hit them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm sorry, how is that wrong? The max amount that can hit an HA have nothing to do with how many are required to ensure the HA goes down. Considering they deal no damage, it's entirely conceivable that an infinite amount of webs would be required. However, let's say the gorge is good enough to perfectly nail the HA with spit while he's webbed. Would one "max amount" of webbing on the HA guaruntee it goes down from gorge spit?
Doubtful. The gorge likely has to do at least another full set of webs. So now we're up to 8.. will 8 mines kill a fade?
Yeah, I know, teamwork.. hold him down so the others can get him. But that works both ways.. mines to damage, teamwork to finish off. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, you missed my point:
4 mines will not kill fade, whereas 4 webs are enough to kill several HA. Of course, with "teamwork" but that's a rediculous statement to begain with.
I guess I really have to barge in then....
Webs are a tool used to ease the painful fact that marines have powerful ranged weapons that tear anything short of an Onos down in a few seconds (once you acquire webs). Then there's the usage of webs : To pin down marines to give your lifeforms a better chance against them. Using webs will nullify the main advantage of ranged attacks, and with webs being a 3 hive ability, I don't see any problem with it. Plus, for webs to effectively work, you need a couple of teammates with powerful melee attacks(which are the majority of them anyway)
Shotguns are the comparable equivalent of webs. Again, we use the 'marines = teamwork' notion. 4 shotguns can pretty much down anything, again short of an Onos, when they get within range.
Therefore, shotguns are the close equivalent of webs, and if webs are removed, then so should shotguns, to kep each team to their specific advantages. Meaning aliens will be based on pure melee, with weak ranged atacks, and marines will be stuck with long-ranged weapons the hurt, paired with weak melee weapons. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Webs aren't the only thing that nullify ranged attacks. Think about it: Leap, Umbra, Lerk Flight, Blink, Stomp etc. are all designed specifically to counter the ranged advantage of the marines. And the shotgun is not the one-size-fits-all counter to melee aliens either (in combat a least). A fade can blink in, swipe one marine down, blink out and suffer minimal damage. Umbra reduces the effectiveness of the shotguns as well, and its pretty hard to hit a celerity/leap skulk or a celerity/adrenaline lerk (again this could happen only in combat mode).
Web is the only weapon that can totally nullify such range advantage, and yet, marines don't have one. Maybe that's why people are complaining.
Nevertheless, it's a 3 hive ability, so its use is up to the user. The user can try and use it the right way, or use it to his own creativity.
But I do agree it sucks to be webbed all day long by a Gorge, but what can I say? That's NS.
The only skill I see as maybe needing to go or neeing improvement is Primal Scream, but maybe I'm just not using it right, I just don't see it used very often is all :o
It'll make one of your men useless but nullify 1-3 gorges, good benefit and the welder can weld the other's armor.
JP rambos deserve to die, but they can always fly through welding webs then fire at will at the hive.
It'll make one of your men useless but nullify 1-3 gorges, good benefit and the welder can weld the other's armor.
JP rambos deserve to die, but they can always fly through welding webs then fire at will at the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still possible to get webbed if you have the welder in front. The welder needs to be behind welding the guy with the gun. Welding him removes webs, he shoots gorge, gorge dies.
It'll make one of your men useless but nullify 1-3 gorges, good benefit and the welder can weld the other's armor.
JP rambos deserve to die, but they can always fly through welding webs then fire at will at the hive. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still possible to get webbed if you have the welder in front. The welder needs to be behind welding the guy with the gun. Welding him removes webs, he shoots gorge, gorge dies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
In reality, the person who was welding is webbed up, and the other dude is re-welded, and one skulk comes along and kills two lv. 10 guys. Great fun.
The other possible scenerio:
Guy who welds is attacked by something, pulls out his weapon to defend himself, is webbed, right next to his other buddy, and then a lv. 3 lerk comes along and kills each with 10 bites. Great fun.
Yeah. It still takes like a second for them to become unwelded, but yeah.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^