<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->part of all 3 hive abilities which basically say, "You lose!" to the marines. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes, exactly if the marines let the aliens get a third hive up then they DO loose. I have NEVER seen a game where the aliens have 3 hives and still manage to loose. Sure maybe the rines manage to take out one but there still screwed.
<!--QuoteBegin-FCC+Feb 29 2004, 04:55 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (FCC @ Feb 29 2004, 04:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 3) Reduce damage and rate of fire of acid rockets by half <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> been there done that =\
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Mar 25 2004, 03:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Mar 25 2004, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just like how marines can mine up their base, the gorges can web up the hive. I dont see the disruption of balance, or denial of ground. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines
<!--QuoteBegin-Gangsta Monkey+Mar 25 2004, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gangsta Monkey @ Mar 25 2004, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have NEVER seen a game where the aliens have 3 hives and still manage to loose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you havn't?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Galvatron+Mar 26 2004, 12:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Galvatron @ Mar 26 2004, 12:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Gangsta Monkey+Mar 25 2004, 11:04 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gangsta Monkey @ Mar 25 2004, 11:04 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have NEVER seen a game where the aliens have 3 hives and still manage to loose. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> you havn't?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I know I have. Practically every time it was because one lone marine snuck a pg in under the generator hive in ns_caged.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 25 2004, 03:08 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 25 2004, 03:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Mar 25 2004, 01:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Mar 25 2004, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I deny the ground under my feet. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In other words, you want webs, dispite what effect it has on balance. You'd rather see balance altered so that webs can remain in combat.
I see. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, i just noticed that i disagree in about everything you said and realised that its useless to argue with you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Mar 25 2004, 03:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Mar 25 2004, 03:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Just like how marines can mine up their base, the gorges can web up the hive. I dont see the disruption of balance, or denial of ground. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines
One offensive gorge can web up anything
GG <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Javert+Mar 25 2004, 06:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Javert @ Mar 25 2004, 06:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd like to see these so-called statistics. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have already posted statistics in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65023&st=90' target='_blank'>this</a> thread.
There are other statistics posted in the same thread <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65023&st=105' target='_blank'>here</a> and <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65023&st=150' target='_blank'>here.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 26 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 26 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 26 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 26 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
And mines are weak, webs are extreamlly powerful, mines are complete jokes when compared to webs <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, Welders can "unweb" a marine and the grenade spam that is prevalent in most games makes webs last .2 seconds once shot. Once someone has a GL,the only use for webs IS "offensive webbing". Additionally, gorges do not react well to a grenade in the face. Stop your "leet rambo solo missions" and move out with a partner.
To paraphrase you, Forlorn, if webs are owning you, stop whining and get better. What happened to "newbies whine, veterans adapt"? Doesn't it apply to veterans whining?
<!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 26 2004, 03:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 26 2004, 03:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 03:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 03:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MMZ>Torak+Mar 26 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MMZ>Torak @ Mar 26 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
And mines are weak, webs are extreamlly powerful, mines are complete jokes when compared to webs <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Um, Welders can "unweb" a marine and the grenade spam that is prevalent in most games makes webs last .2 seconds once shot. Once someone has a GL,the only use for webs IS "offensive webbing". Additionally, gorges do not react well to a grenade in the face. Stop your "leet rambo solo missions" and move out with a partner.
To paraphrase you, Forlorn, if webs are owning you, stop whining and get better. What happened to "newbies whine, veterans adapt"? Doesn't it apply to veterans whining? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's evident you guys haven't adapted with gorge webbing, because to keep a gorge protected while he webs up the marine team's welders and grenidiers is not hard to do at all.
Also, once webbing you are as good as dead.
Stop using this crap of 'working as a team' to counter it. What happens when we use alien teamwork?
Stop trying to justify webs because they supposedly help the underpowered aliens.
1. Aliens are not underpowered
2. You don't need webs to kill marines
3. Webs are not fun, they are lame on almost all accounts
Also, just take a look at webs in it's most basic design... it's a 3rd hive ability. It's meant to be an unfair advantage for the aliens, and it's completely justified as it takes 3 hives which is very difficult to get.
On combat, you get this 3rd hive ability with a mere <b>3</b> level ups to get this awsome ability.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 03:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Stop using this crap of 'working as a team' to counter it. What happens when we use alien teamwork?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean like when someone sacrifices personal kills to help other aliens by healing the hive or webbing marines? I wonder...
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 03:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On combat, you get this 3rd hive ability with a mere <b>3</b> level ups to get this awsome ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If combat fell off the face of the earth, I wouldn't shed a tear.
Maybe your view is screwed up from your pedestal, perhaps you should come down off it. The lack of oxygen from the altitude is certainly affecting you.
<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Mar 26 2004, 04:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Mar 26 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So its a matter of being too easy to get in combat then. Simple to fix it then, pop its cost to 2 levels. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> See, this requres a major change overall then, because currently you can get 3 hive abilities with any class and then evolve to that class
I suppose you could just make it so 3 hive abilities cost 2 level ups to get, but this causes problems:
- Some 3 hive abilities suck
- An onos who gets the 3rd hive ability will have enough level ups for 2 upgrades.
So make the 3 hive abilities useful to warrant their cost. Increase the damage of charge and AR (needed badly for Classic) and increase the duration of primal squark.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 27 2004, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 27 2004, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Mar 26 2004, 04:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Mar 26 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So its a matter of being too easy to get in combat then. Simple to fix it then, pop its cost to 2 levels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> See, this requres a major change overall then, because currently you can get 3 hive abilities with any class and then evolve to that class
I suppose you could just make it so 3 hive abilities cost 2 level ups to get, but this causes problems:
- Some 3 hive abilities suck
- An onos who gets the 3rd hive ability will have enough level ups for 2 upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing? I'd like to see the onos only be able to getting one ability or something, and then buff it up A LOT. Onii suck so hard in classic now, maybe this would be a solution? Give onii less upgrades in combat, and to justify that, make them a lot thougher.
<!--QuoteBegin-coris+Mar 27 2004, 08:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coris @ Mar 27 2004, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 27 2004, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 27 2004, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Mar 26 2004, 04:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Mar 26 2004, 04:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So its a matter of being too easy to get in combat then. Simple to fix it then, pop its cost to 2 levels. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> See, this requres a major change overall then, because currently you can get 3 hive abilities with any class and then evolve to that class
I suppose you could just make it so 3 hive abilities cost 2 level ups to get, but this causes problems:
- Some 3 hive abilities suck
- An onos who gets the 3rd hive ability will have enough level ups for 2 upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing? I'd like to see the onos only be able to getting one ability or something, and then buff it up A LOT. Onii suck so hard in classic now, maybe this would be a solution? Give onii less upgrades in combat, and to justify that, make them a lot thougher. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Onos don't really suck in classic, at all. It just depends on how you use them.
Although, 1 hive onos are really kinda worthless, but 2 hive onos are game enders.
Kind of weird in that aspect.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So make the 3 hive abilities useful to warrant their cost. Increase the damage of charge and AR (needed badly for Classic) and increase the duration of primal squark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Primal scream lasts 5 seconds, it's just weird to use because it takes like 2 seconds for any effect to happen
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If combat fell off the face of the earth, I wouldn't shed a tear.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 27 2004, 09:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 27 2004, 09:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If combat fell off the face of the earth, I wouldn't shed a tear.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a great playtesting attitude torak <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Kinda reminds me of your attitude:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why balance the game for the upper 10%? That's easy enough, because it's only the upper 10% who actually understand how to play the game!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
web is a straighic upgrade, it doesn't attack you, or anyway, you can weld it away or some type of explosion
so i don't see the deal, not really feeling like flaming the whole post so i think i won't read it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->web is a straighic upgrade, it doesn't attack you, or anyway, you can weld it away or some type of explosion<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This mentality is what needs to go. Webs are *NOT* strongest as some random static defence. It can be used on the offence. That's one reason why it's too strong.
And does anyone notice, that JP/HA can die real easy due to webbing, but mines arn't gonna stop that fade/onos? So the whole mines = webbing comparison is flawed, in the sense that mines are far too weak and would need to deal a whole heck of a lot more to be compared fairly to webbing, which would screw around with balance.
Mine alone cant stop fades/onos. But when its placed well with good marines backing it up, the fades and onos will fall. Same with web, it alone cant kill HA (I'll give you that a gorge can probably keep a jp down long enough to spit em to death). But when its placed well with sufficient alien backup, you will lose your train.
I do agree that offensive webbing is wrong and needs to be fixed up, but theres nothing wrong with setting web traps, and it should happen more often.
Sarisel.::' ( O ) ';:-. .-.:;' ( O ) '::.Join Date: 2003-07-30Member: 18557Members, Constellation
After playing combat some more, I've had a few more experiences with the web.
For the majority of pubs, a gorge (or three) that know how to use webs will stop a marine team dead in its tracks.
1. Marine teamwork on pubs is not that great and marines in general are not that great. Assuming an equal skill level on both sides and no camping, level 3 is reached by both sides at about the same time. 2. In the early game, a player can upgrade 2nd-3rd-gorge and win or turn the game around for aliens unless the marines just camp in base, in which case it takes a little longer. The gorge runs around with skulks, marines that move out get webbed and there is nothing they can do about it. If the game doesn't end in MS shortly after, skulks evolve into more gorges or higher lifeforms. 3. Multiple gorges with webs can effectively overpower groups of marines. There is nothing marines can do about it except grenade spam. Welding through does not work well enough because gorges can trap welders by webbing their backs. 4. In late game, assuming teams are about even, higher lifeforms combined with multiple gorges is a failproof way to end games. Attacks on the hive are stopped and marines are confined to MS. If grenade spam is avoided, gorges can sneak in after stronger lifeforms and just web everything up. Webbed marines cannot fight back and are dispatched. Spawn camping with webs while bilebombing the comm chair concludes the game.
As it is, the Gorge is unfair for the marines for its healing and webbing. The Gorge is useful both in offensive and defensive situations. While gorges are good for taking down rambo JPs, they can also do other things - like immobilizing 5-10 marines in under 3 seconds.
This thread has become too great in length for a discussion on how to actually balance the removal of the Gorge.
It's good to see you've finally seen the light Saraph <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
yeah thats a good idea.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, exactly if the marines let the aliens get a third hive up then they DO loose. I have NEVER seen a game where the aliens have 3 hives and still manage to loose.
Sure maybe the rines manage to take out one but there still screwed.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
been there done that =\
Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines
One offensive gorge can web up anything
GG
you havn't?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you havn't?! <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I know I have. Practically every time it was because one lone marine snuck a pg in under the generator hive in ns_caged.
One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs.
In other words, you want webs, dispite what effect it has on balance. You'd rather see balance altered so that webs can remain in combat.
I see. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, i just noticed that i disagree in about everything you said and realised that its useless to argue with you.
Um. One onos or a bunch of fades or one bile bombing gorge and just wreak his way through mines
One offensive gorge can web up anything
GG <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
ANY marine can mine up anything
GG
I have already posted statistics in <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65023&st=90' target='_blank'>this</a> thread.
There are other statistics posted in the same thread <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65023&st=105' target='_blank'>here</a> and <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=65023&st=150' target='_blank'>here.</a>
One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
ANY marine can mine up anything
GG<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
And mines are weak, webs are extreamlly powerful, mines are complete jokes when compared to webs
One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
ANY marine can mine up anything
GG<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
And mines are weak, webs are extreamlly powerful, mines are complete jokes when compared to webs <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, Welders can "unweb" a marine and the grenade spam that is prevalent in most games makes webs last .2 seconds once shot. Once someone has a GL,the only use for webs IS "offensive webbing". Additionally, gorges do not react well to a grenade in the face. Stop your "leet rambo solo missions" and move out with a partner.
To paraphrase you, Forlorn, if webs are owning you, stop whining and get better. What happened to "newbies whine, veterans adapt"? Doesn't it apply to veterans whining?
One GLer or one guy with a welder can just wreak his way through the webs. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ANY marine can weld/gl/grenade through the webs. Hell if no alien is around, they can even walk through it.
ANY marine can mine up anything
GG<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong, offensive webbing will not be stopped by GL's, nor welders
And mines are weak, webs are extreamlly powerful, mines are complete jokes when compared to webs <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Um, Welders can "unweb" a marine and the grenade spam that is prevalent in most games makes webs last .2 seconds once shot. Once someone has a GL,the only use for webs IS "offensive webbing". Additionally, gorges do not react well to a grenade in the face. Stop your "leet rambo solo missions" and move out with a partner.
To paraphrase you, Forlorn, if webs are owning you, stop whining and get better. What happened to "newbies whine, veterans adapt"? Doesn't it apply to veterans whining? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's evident you guys haven't adapted with gorge webbing, because to keep a gorge protected while he webs up the marine team's welders and grenidiers is not hard to do at all.
Also, once webbing you are as good as dead.
Stop using this crap of 'working as a team' to counter it. What happens when we use alien teamwork?
Stop trying to justify webs because they supposedly help the underpowered aliens.
1. Aliens are not underpowered
2. You don't need webs to kill marines
3. Webs are not fun, they are lame on almost all accounts
Also, just take a look at webs in it's most basic design... it's a 3rd hive ability. It's meant to be an unfair advantage for the aliens, and it's completely justified as it takes 3 hives which is very difficult to get.
On combat, you get this 3rd hive ability with a mere <b>3</b> level ups to get this awsome ability.
You mean like when someone sacrifices personal kills to help other aliens by healing the hive or webbing marines? I wonder...
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Mar 26 2004, 03:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Mar 26 2004, 03:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->On combat, you get this 3rd hive ability with a mere <b>3</b> level ups to get this awsome ability.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If combat fell off the face of the earth, I wouldn't shed a tear.
Maybe your view is screwed up from your pedestal, perhaps you should come down off it. The lack of oxygen from the altitude is certainly affecting you.
See, this requres a major change overall then, because currently you can get 3 hive abilities with any class and then evolve to that class
I suppose you could just make it so 3 hive abilities cost 2 level ups to get, but this causes problems:
- Some 3 hive abilities suck
- An onos who gets the 3rd hive ability will have enough level ups for 2 upgrades.
See, this requres a major change overall then, because currently you can get 3 hive abilities with any class and then evolve to that class
I suppose you could just make it so 3 hive abilities cost 2 level ups to get, but this causes problems:
- Some 3 hive abilities suck
- An onos who gets the 3rd hive ability will have enough level ups for 2 upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing? I'd like to see the onos only be able to getting one ability or something, and then buff it up A LOT. Onii suck so hard in classic now, maybe this would be a solution? Give onii less upgrades in combat, and to justify that, make them a lot thougher.
See, this requres a major change overall then, because currently you can get 3 hive abilities with any class and then evolve to that class
I suppose you could just make it so 3 hive abilities cost 2 level ups to get, but this causes problems:
- Some 3 hive abilities suck
- An onos who gets the 3rd hive ability will have enough level ups for 2 upgrades. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing? I'd like to see the onos only be able to getting one ability or something, and then buff it up A LOT. Onii suck so hard in classic now, maybe this would be a solution? Give onii less upgrades in combat, and to justify that, make them a lot thougher. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Onos don't really suck in classic, at all. It just depends on how you use them.
Although, 1 hive onos are really kinda worthless, but 2 hive onos are game enders.
Kind of weird in that aspect.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So make the 3 hive abilities useful to warrant their cost. Increase the damage of charge and AR (needed badly for Classic) and increase the duration of primal squark.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Primal scream lasts 5 seconds, it's just weird to use because it takes like 2 seconds for any effect to happen
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If combat fell off the face of the earth, I wouldn't shed a tear.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What a great playtesting attitude torak
What a great playtesting attitude torak <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Kinda reminds me of your attitude:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Why balance the game for the upper 10%? That's easy enough, because it's only the upper 10% who actually understand how to play the game!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Way to insult 90% of the people playing the game.
so i don't see the deal, not really feeling like flaming the whole post so i think i won't read it <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This mentality is what needs to go. Webs are *NOT* strongest as some random static defence. It can be used on the offence. That's one reason why it's too strong.
And does anyone notice, that JP/HA can die real easy due to webbing, but mines arn't gonna stop that fade/onos? So the whole mines = webbing comparison is flawed, in the sense that mines are far too weak and would need to deal a whole heck of a lot more to be compared fairly to webbing, which would screw around with balance.
I do agree that offensive webbing is wrong and needs to be fixed up, but theres nothing wrong with setting web traps, and it should happen more often.
being webbed while trying to weld through only to be munched sucks big time.
For the majority of pubs, a gorge (or three) that know how to use webs will stop a marine team dead in its tracks.
1. Marine teamwork on pubs is not that great and marines in general are not that great. Assuming an equal skill level on both sides and no camping, level 3 is reached by both sides at about the same time.
2. In the early game, a player can upgrade 2nd-3rd-gorge and win or turn the game around for aliens unless the marines just camp in base, in which case it takes a little longer. The gorge runs around with skulks, marines that move out get webbed and there is nothing they can do about it. If the game doesn't end in MS shortly after, skulks evolve into more gorges or higher lifeforms.
3. Multiple gorges with webs can effectively overpower groups of marines. There is nothing marines can do about it except grenade spam. Welding through does not work well enough because gorges can trap welders by webbing their backs.
4. In late game, assuming teams are about even, higher lifeforms combined with multiple gorges is a failproof way to end games. Attacks on the hive are stopped and marines are confined to MS. If grenade spam is avoided, gorges can sneak in after stronger lifeforms and just web everything up. Webbed marines cannot fight back and are dispatched. Spawn camping with webs while bilebombing the comm chair concludes the game.
As it is, the Gorge is unfair for the marines for its healing and webbing. The Gorge is useful both in offensive and defensive situations. While gorges are good for taking down rambo JPs, they can also do other things - like immobilizing 5-10 marines in under 3 seconds.
This thread has become too great in length for a discussion on how to actually balance the removal of the Gorge.