He who is surrounded by idiots

InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Finds himself in a hall of mirrors.</div>Everything I've seen about Natural Selection so far makes my 'game nerve' tingle. But I find myself worried. There's so much talk of command options, and building, and strategy it makes me drool. What I don't find is talk of idiots.

Now, I'm not (for the most part) talking about malicious idiots, those who's purpose in life is to make the game less fun for other people. Nor those well-meaning folk who are simply cursed with a lack of skill (or blessed with an abundance of ping). I'm talking about your run of the mill FPS player. The guy who doesn't know, or care, about the specifics of how the game is played; he just wants to see himself 1st on the scoreboard.

I'm sure you all know this type of player. His play philosophy is "There is no 'team' in 'win', but there is 'I'".

So what I'm wondering is how much of a tolerance does NS gameplay have for that type of player? Can I expect a good match if there's at least 1 or 2 good players per team, or do I need to set up my own private server to prevent a couple of Smacktards from ruining it?


  • BillBill Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1108Members
    I think, considering the way NS is set up, people who get frag happy and go off on their own(marines at least) will just end up dead a lot.  The game heavily promotes teamplay to the point that it's only fun(and logical) if you play as a team, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    An excellent question.

    The hope is, players who are truly from the DM (or often CS public server) world will adapt their Marine playing style once they see how hard it is to go Rambo on the human team. For one, the human team does not have stats on their scoreboard, so there will be no way to have 'Ultimate Soldier' bragging rights. Additionally, if you don't do what the commander wants you are going eventually run low on ammo and health and be eliminated far from your base. It's not like CS where 5 minute rounds make health levels less important, or DM where you can get an automatically respawning health boost - you really need to have your commander's help, or stay with a group to keep casualties low.

    From another perspective, these sorts of players will do just fine on the Alien team. They are designed more for a gung-ho DM style of gameplay - they can get their own health refreshed (via hives, defense chambers, and personal abilities). They have no ammo limits (only delays). They are pretty tough, and good for solo action in general. Hopefully, those sorts of players will gravitate towards aliens if they can't seem to get teamplay into their skulls...

    Hope that answers the question.
  • DOOManiacDOOManiac Worst. Critic. Ever. Join Date: 2002-04-17 Member: 462Members, NS1 Playtester
    marines don't even get a frag count. this sort of player will probably prefer aliens, and will actually probably play a decent game. the alien team is meant to appeal more to dm-ish type players.

    curses! foiled by monse again!

    <!--EDIT|DOOManiac|Sep. 27 2002,15:37-->
  • 10RoUNdTOmMYgUN10RoUNdTOmMYgUN Join Date: 2002-05-03 Member: 572Members
    Okay , I often relish in or cry about my score. What does show up on the screen for scores then?

    Mind you , I was a player of cs from beta 4 , but as was stated, supah-players with no concept of team play and those who had team play in mind but wouldn't know their head from their ### ruined CS for me. I no longer play the game.

    So what exactly is on the score board at the end? <!--emo&???--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo-->
  • EtherealEthereal Join Date: 2002-08-26 Member: 1236Members
    Yes, How will the stats be displayed for the teams...  Will there be an overall Kill/Death stat or will it post total amount to resources obtained/used (in order to see how well each team has been at dominating the map). This would be for ppl joining the game to see which team is doing the best, or worst, and allow them to make a judgment call as to whether balance the teams or join the dominating team to speed the end of the battle.

  • realityisdeadrealityisdead Employed by Raven Software after making ns_nothing Join Date: 2002-01-26 Member: 94Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    <!--QuoteBegin--10RoUNdTOmMYgUN+Sep. 27 2002,14:45--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (10RoUNdTOmMYgUN @ Sep. 27 2002,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->So what exactly is on the score board at the end?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    "    " <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

    There's simply a blank space where the score would usually go.

    Ethereal: While overall kill count isn't necessarily the best or only way to tell which team is "winning", team-total stats are still shown. Also, choosing the "Random Team" door in the readyroom will place you in the team with the lowerhand.
  • SkriftSkrift Join Date: 2002-09-25 Member: 1329Members
    Well I can´t see that kind of players playing this mod for more than... say, an hour. I myself am not worried about how much detail this game holds. I "absorb" knowledge from game manuals until I know every bit of action you can take in the game. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> This game will be SO damn great!!1 ME WANT´S TO BITE HEADS OFF!!1  <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/bob.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='::skulk::'><!--endemo-->   <!--emo&:p--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':p'><!--endemo-->
  • coilcoil Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    The scoreboard:

    1) The only thing displayed for a marine is his ping.
    2) The commander is marked as COMM, but only the marines see this.
    3) Alien points and deaths are visible to both teams.
    4) Aliens get points for frags or for building a structure.
    5) Aliens are marked by their current level, but only aliens can see this.
  • 10RoUNdTOmMYgUN10RoUNdTOmMYgUN Join Date: 2002-05-03 Member: 572Members
    Thank you coil , much appreciated. Now I won't have to hit the TAB button to talk smack <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->    j/k
  • 10RoUNdTOmMYgUN10RoUNdTOmMYgUN Join Date: 2002-05-03 Member: 572Members
    OHOHOH I made beast now  <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    Well that only leaves me two worries. A) That the marines will find it near impossible to get the coherency needed to win, and B) That after finding out you don't get scored on your kills everyone will leave. Though the only bad part about that is with a community made up of only 30-50 good people, it will be next to impossible to actually get a game going.
  • ComproxComprox *chortle* Canada Join Date: 2002-01-23 Member: 7Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts
    A community of 30-50 good people? If are worried about that, then you need to look around a little more <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> We have way more than 30-50 people on these forums already!

    And, as Monse said, if the player wants to see his score, he can easily play aliens, and not marines. Marines have no scores to highly encourage teamplay.
  • MonsieurEvilMonsieurEvil Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Besides, we already have 80 playtesters and 3 servers. There you go - plenty of people.

    <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->

    Trust me when I say that with no scoreboard for Marines, you end up not missing it after about 30 minutes. The world will go on, trust me. It really does encourage you to be a teamplayer once quickly get used to it. Or encourage you to play those wussy DMing aliens...

    <!--EDIT|MonsieurEvil|Sep. 27 2002,19:49-->
  • HBNayrHBNayr Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 930Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Inexorable+Sep. 27 2002,19:26--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Inexorable @ Sep. 27 2002,19:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Well that only leaves me two worries. A) That the marines will find it near impossible to get the coherency needed to win, and B) That after finding out you don't get scored on your kills everyone will leave.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    A) This was, and still is, a concern of my own.  Balancing seems to be good now, but then again, they are playing with hand-picked playtesters who agree to play the game it was meant to be played.  Everyone can DM and play "team" games with rambo tactics.  The aliens will flourish.  But what about the marines?  A lot of people say they want teamplay.  How many of them will actually live up to it?  That's why the game is being tested at some LAN parties with people who have never played it before.  I remember MonsE talking about a time at a LAN party testing with Flayra.  Flayra led the alien team, and MonsE led the marines.  MonsE naturally hopped in the CC, and tried to direct his teammates to some resource nodes to start gathering some points.  The marine players basically said, "Why bother?  We have guns, they don't, let's ROLL!"  They ran through the door, only to be torn apart by Flayra and company, who picked them off easily as they came through individually, one at a time.  After dying a few times, they realized that perhaps those tactics weren't going to work, and decided to follow orders.  As MonsE put it, "The game encourages teamplay for marines.  If you don't play as a team, it will smack you, and smack you HARD."  (OR something to that effect...I wish I could find the post.)  I would hope that the marines who would want to continue on with rambo tactics would try playing as the alien for a bit, perhaps to come back to the marine at a later date.  It still doesn't guarantee that you won't end up on a marine team full of Rambos.  But, there's always <a href="http://www3.telus.net/peaches/nsf/nsf.html" target="_blank">NSF</a>.  Hopefully, the teamplayers will rule.

    B) If they have to get scored on kills to have a good time, I wouldn't want them on the server, anyway.  Aliens are scored on kills, but whether you are alien or marine, the team is always, always, always, always first.  I do think, however, that these kinds of players will turn out to be the minority.  They will be there, to be sure, but they will probably be able to see past it.  Besides, the commander will recognize his/her good players.  And if you really want to be a hero on the marine's team, try being the commander.  Half of every win is the commander's doing.


    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago."
    -- Bernard Berenson
  • JopsJops Join Date: 2002-09-13 Member: 1312Members
    A little off subject, when you are in the commander console can an alien kill you?
  • coilcoil Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    If the marines don't work as a team, the result is an alien victory.  There is no way around the fact that NS is a *team* game - moreso than ANY game currently out there.  A skilled CS player can take an entire team single-handedly; a skilled S&I player can capture scientists with no help from his teammates.

    A team of skilled DMers in Natural Selection:
    as marines,
    1) will not individually have the firepower to take out a hive on their own.
    2) will not get upgrades or higher level weapons, since they probably won't build structures.
    3) probably won't be receiving ammo or health from their commander, if one of them even goes into the chair.
    4) will eventually be ambushed by a skulk or split open by a fade.
    5) won't respawn if they didn't even build an infantry portal.

    as aliens,
    1) will have more success as long as they realize they need to ambush rather than try a head-on attack.
    2) will not get upgrades in any way (chambers or hives) if no one goes builder.

    Both teams require *some* teamplay, and either team will lose without it.  Aliens are more DM-capable.

    As for people leaving because they don't get a score... they can play aliens, or they can leave.  I wouldn't miss them.  NS does require a higher level of *social* intelligence than any other online game, and that's not a bad thing as far as I'm concerned.
  • InexorableInexorable Join Date: 2002-09-28 Member: 1360Members
    I think I may have been misunderstood when I mentioned people leaving due to no score showing up. My point was that no score ---> no people ---> few servers ---> the only game I can join involves 3 people is in Zimbabwe and I get 1200 ping.

    But hey, if that NSF thing works out, I think I'll have nothing to worry about.  <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->
  • humbabahumbaba That Exciting Tales From the Frontline Guy Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 86Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Well . .the idea is that players who want to brag about their score can just join Aliens and . . voila. . they have a score. Additionally, the aliens are designed to appeal to the deathmatcher. They have more diverse implements for killing the enemy and so many methods of transportation that take time to master, they are really the stuff Deathmatchers are dreamed of. The marines weapons are straightforward, cool, and designed mostly to be used in conjunction with other weapons. Every marine weapon has a weakness and Combined arms is necessary. For those who desire deep teamplay, big blasty guns, and fun taunts, go marine. For those who wanna be "L33t" and play with their food, go Alien.
        NS will be popular because NS has such Diverse appeal. There is room in an NS game for a handfull of Teamplayers, a Handfull of Deathmatchers, and even a Starcraft Afficianado. Diversity is key. NS has it.
  • SNAFUSNAFU Join Date: 2002-05-05 Member: 582Members

    There is no "I" in "team", but there is in "idiot".

    I think that sums this up.
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer
    <!--QuoteBegin--coil+Sep. 27 2002,16:17--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (coil @ Sep. 27 2002,16:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The scoreboard:

    1) The only thing displayed for a marine is his ping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    only his ping? i guess his name will be displayed too <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->
  • WillowWillow Join Date: 2002-06-27 Member: 829Members
    Hey! I was that player from Zimbabwe!
  • NiM_StudiosNiM_Studios Join Date: 2002-08-08 Member: 1115Members
    I find it very interesting that the two teams have 2 very different gameplay styles. I'm sure this will attract more players from different games (Deathmatchers, Teamplayers, RTS Players). Everybody would get his little share of the fun in this game, correct me if I'm wrong, but this would make the game perfect <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->.
  • RobRob Unknown Enemy Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 25Members, NS1 Playtester
    For the most part, the aliens <i>have</i> to go solo.  They just have too much ground to cover.  If you get a good builder, the aliens will own 3/4's of the nodes in the map (at least before a certain RP change.../me grumbles at grendel) in the first 5-10 minutes.

    That's about 3/4's of the map the aliens have to watch for invasion.  If someone's about to make an assault, a quick "need some back up at the airlock (bast), going to take the cc" over voicecom or text will ususally generate a healthy standard of soldiers.

    But for the most part, you're out there wall climing and flying your own little heart out.

    <!--EDIT|rob6264|Sep. 28 2002,01:18-->
  • FamFam Diaper-Wearing Dog On A Ball Join Date: 2002-02-17 Member: 222Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    Of course they have tested out what happens if you get idiots in NS.

    I am a playtester.
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    <!--QuoteBegin--Fam+Sep. 28 2002,09:22--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Fam @ Sep. 28 2002,09:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course they have tested out what happens if you get idiots in NS.

    I am a playtester.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Did Fam's account get hijacked or something??
  • LongtoothLongtooth Join Date: 2002-07-02 Member: 863Members
    EC punks and thier cool sigs!  I am sorry I have been holding that in for far too long.  Speaking of sigs I need to fix mine.  On another note,  man it is early.  Why are you guys up?
  • BattousaixBattousaix Join Date: 2002-06-25 Member: 822Members
    It´s not that early in other places of the world you know <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->
  • LongtoothLongtooth Join Date: 2002-07-02 Member: 863Members
    Well it is early here.  And that is all that matters.
  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Members, Constellation
    Jesus Christ on roller skates Longtooth! How off-topic acan you pull this discussion!?!?!
  • DekkerDekker Join Date: 2002-07-06 Member: 887Members
    lol i just think some people start spamming again in an important thread (wow i have drunk b ait too much <!--emo&:D--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':D'><!--endemo-->)
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