<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 17 2003, 05:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 17 2003, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> camera? o.O <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I mean that you had to go right up to the edge of the screen before it scrolled. That was really annoying.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(My memory might not be correct, I just remember getting annoyed with something along those lines. Hey, it was a long time ago.)</span>
<!--QuoteBegin--Delarosa+Oct 17 2003, 06:13 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Delarosa @ Oct 17 2003, 06:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> [...] Arcanum : Of Might and Magik or, it was somethings like that... [...] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> it's Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> it got it, and played it alot when i first got it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> good game good game... but for nice rpg go for Fallout 1 and / or 2 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
oh okies, it only did that if you didn't both travel together; kinda like gauntlet. If you both stayed kinda together you'd stay roughly in the middle all the time but you always end up splitting up to fight off stuff on either end of the screen anyways but I don't remember it being a real problem unless you were in a maze ^^
I hear Phanstasy Star 4 was so titanically huge is actually lasts generations; you get to pick your partner and that determines the child's stats who you get to play until you choose their partner and so on until who knows how many years have passed and the story winds up with it's super uber epic millenia-spanning ending <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I never played most of my games with anyone else because I'm a bit of a sociopath. The exceptions are <i>Worms </i>(1-3), <i>Gunstar Heroes </i>and <i>Bubble Bobble</i>. I pretended to like people if they would come and play those with me.
<!--QuoteBegin--Duff-Man+Oct 17 2003, 02:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Duff-Man @ Oct 17 2003, 02:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Planescape: Torment gets my Seal of Ownage approval.
Only game I've liked out of BioWare so far, the BG series didn't suit me at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Planescape: Torment was developed by Black Isle Studios, not Bioware. The company movies at the beginning of the game should have told you that.
Dungeon siege is cool until the novelty wears off... but until then it'll rock your socks XD
I've got lots of fond memories of Gunstar Heroes, Bomberman, Secret of Mana, Worms, Bubble Bobble, etc. I loved co-op and it's a shame that few games have it now -.-
ooh! talking of coop; System Shock 2!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I almost beat Chrono Trigger, I had to rent it from my local Blockbuster for like 3 weeks in a row or something so that no one would overwrite my game. Then I got stuck at that one part where you battle the Sumo Boss dude that splits into 2 Bosses halfway through the fight or something. Only thing I hated bout that game was backtracking and facing the same enemies you just killed...
3D is a blessing and a curse for RPGs, makes them look nice but it takes much longer to create content. The only reason BG2 was able to be so big was because it used sprites and static backgrounds, if you tried that in 3D you would have to deal with video card compatability, clipping, speeds, etc. Thats why all the best and biggest party based RPGs are in 2D <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Actually the best RPGs are those you play with your friends <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Pen and Paper baby!
I'm a HUGE fan of Shadowrun. The rules are a little hard to master, but if you like Ocean's Eleven / Italian Job, then that's the system for you.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->FF6 is the best RPG ever made<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can't beleive only 1 person so far has mentioned Knights of the old Republic. Fantasic RPG, and it has the best voice acting for some of the characters I have ever heard. Carth is actually a believable character thanks to his actor. Although, it is roughly D&D based but it does not follow too strongly to the rules. That said, i fail to see why anyone would want a game thats essentially a pen and paper game with a graphics engine (such as NWN or BG.. god i hated those games). Personally i cant stand pen and paper games, but putting a pen and paper game on the computer removes any of the allure of the game in the first place: free form gaming, imagination, actual social interation with real people...
I say if your going to make a PC game, make a PC game not a poorly translated representaion of a completely different play style. KotoR manages to acheive this to an extent as most of the D&D is behind closed doors, but every time i see the words "saving rolls" i shudder. It doesnt need dice, its a COMPUTER! Don't try and make the game into something its not.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
Ah, but that's because you're not an RPG'er. If you were, you'd be glad to see those rolls, as it feels 'right' <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
lol, nuh-uh. People seem to have forgotten what RPG is really about <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
RPG is about 'roleplay' not stats and numbers. It's about playing out your character and enjoying watching them develop and experiencing life in their weird and wonderful worlds. Some of the best 'sessions' I've ever had with my friends is when I toss the stupid rulebook, dice, paper, pens away and just leave it with the Players, the DM and a big bad ball of imagination ^^ The stats and stuff were just made to help GMs with tough decisions and give the whole thing a sense of scale; things not really needed by a good, experienced Gamemaster nor RPGs themselves (visibly at least). It's annoying that everything has lost it's personality and history in place of numbers and stupid stats.
Sorry guys but I'm just tired of hearing about how Level 45 Grundar went and popped a Level 38 Dragon with his Mace of Squidging +5 with 40% chance of stun against blobs and 80% extra chance of finding a pair of red socks in your washing machine, as apposed to The epic adventures of Scylla the warrior who managed to slay the dark dragon Carakdor with her trusty sword Galashiel =3
<b>Player1:</b> "cool, what does that sword do? Where'd you get it?" <b>Grundar:</b> "A Level 23 Deathshark dropped it, took me 8 weeks to camp it but it's worth it because it's got 25% chance of smelling like cheese and it gives +5 bonusses to my concentration and theresasplinterinmyfinger stats!" <b>Scylla:</b> "It kills things, I found it in the lost mines of sarakhel near the ancient dwarven tombs. Rumour has it that it was the sword that Klin Stonehammer used to slay Kluthkanard the Orc Shaman; the runes on its blade still writhe with the pain of the magic users death"
Gem hit the nail. Stats were originally necessary to simulate certain abilities a P&P game can't measure otherwise - that's why charisma is usually considered so worthless: Good players have it anyway, so the number on the character sheet becomes obsolete.
Computer RPGs don't really need stats; the PC offers better ways of simulating strength, dextersity, constitution & co. That's why I consider the Thief games the first 'true' PC RPGs.
<!--QuoteBegin--Broode+Oct 18 2003, 03:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Broode @ Oct 18 2003, 03:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That said, i fail to see why anyone would want a game thats essentially a pen and paper game with a graphics engine (such as NWN or BG.. god i hated those games). Personally i cant stand pen and paper games, but putting a pen and paper game on the computer removes any of the allure of the game in the first place: free form gaming, imagination, actual social interation with real people... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If you are including Planescape: Torment into that list then you deserve a whack on the head. I couldn't even imagine one-fourth of the stuff that game has. When I saw those walking television sets I just told myself "This has got to be some twisted dream of mine." A giant iron statue of chaos trapped in a siege tower seeking escape through a little action-figure....you have to be an a** to say that you can actually imagine stuff like that. The Planescape setting is great but it doesn't allow you to imagine with pnp as much as you can with this game.
Go play Planescape: Torment and watch your reality get ripped apart and rebuilt every few hours.
<!--QuoteBegin--Renegade+Oct 19 2003, 10:08 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Renegade @ Oct 19 2003, 10:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have stepped through the door of madness into the realm of the RPG nerd. *Shivers* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And you're posting on a gamer forum? d00d, what's your point? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
...
As for RPG suggestions... If you consider Diablo 2 to be your kind of RPG, maybe Dungeon Siege? TBH, I haven't played more then the demo, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
'Course, if you consider Diablo to be an RPG, you might try Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Geminosity+Oct 18 2003, 10:52 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Oct 18 2003, 10:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> RPG is about 'roleplay' not stats and numbers. It's about playing out your character and enjoying watching them develop and experiencing life in their weird and wonderful worlds. Some of the best 'sessions' I've ever had with my friends is when I toss the stupid rulebook, dice, paper, pens away and just leave it with the Players, the DM and a big bad ball of imagination ^^ The stats and stuff were just made to help GMs with tough decisions and give the whole thing a sense of scale; things not really needed by a good, experienced Gamemaster nor RPGs themselves (visibly at least). It's annoying that everything has lost it's personality and history in place of numbers and stupid stats.
Sorry guys but I'm just tired of hearing about how Level 45 Grundar went and popped a Level 38 Dragon with his Mace of Squidging +5 with 40% chance of stun against blobs and 80% extra chance of finding a pair of red socks in your washing machine, as apposed to The epic adventures of Scylla the warrior who managed to slay the dark dragon Carakdor with her trusty sword Galashiel =3 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> While I'm not into RPG's all that much, I feel the same way. Perhaps its the stats/numbers game that's keeping me from enjoying the typical RPG even more...
So, are there any good games out there that play like this, like how an RPG should, rather than "OMG I GOT level 96 and +25 wand of cardboarding! Now all I gotta do is kill giant rats for 30 more days before I can take on the end boss!" kind?
Getting a good DM means everything in PnP settings. I remember doing a campaign in the Ravenloft (lots.. LOTS of scary undead) setting with our usual DM. Basically he said if we didnt run and scream like little girls at the sight of hordes of zombies appearing around us we would go insane. Normal people don't see corpses rising from the grave, not even adventurers.
Unforunately the games development industry is littered with business people these days and their philosophy goes along the lines of 'different = risk, risk = loss of money' so don't expect to see anything genuinely fun pop it's head up too often until that changes (probably around the time 'fifa 4032: give us more money you losers' comes out) =s
Now, it wasn't an RPG, but everything flowed in combat. Your attacks were seamlessly linked, as if you were actually fighting. That's why PSO always struck me as the best RPG. Plenty of depth, but everything was literally REAL TIME. You didn't attack, stand around for 30 seconds, attack again. You attacked, dodged their attack, attacked again. It was smooth like a babies bottom.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->RPG is about 'roleplay' not stats and numbers. It's about playing out your character and enjoying watching them develop and experiencing life in their weird and wonderful worlds. Some of the best 'sessions' I've ever had with my friends is when I toss the stupid rulebook, dice, paper, pens away and just leave it with the Players, the DM and a big bad ball of imagination ^^ The stats and stuff were just made to help GMs with tough decisions and give the whole thing a sense of scale; things not really needed by a good, experienced Gamemaster nor RPGs themselves (visibly at least). It's annoying that everything has lost it's personality and history in place of numbers and stupid stats. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And THAT's what made Planescape work so well. You start as a amnesiac, you can't go wrong with the choices you make, because you don't have a set character path. And there are a LOT of choices to make. The text descriptions, while seemingly daunting, described the world possibly more vividly than video could ever do. And the characters... hell yes, the characters rocked. It's a shame that even with the original weighing in at 4 CDs, there was very little voice acting, but the text conveyed everything perfectly.
World of Warcraft is going to be sweet when its released, although I don't know when that will be since it hasn't even gone into beta yet. But I'm a major WoW freak; my avatar is an Undead Rogue, and I've read nearly every review and preview of the game possible.
One game that nobody has heard of is Threads of Fate, a very cool RPG-style game for the original Playstation. Its not an RPG in the sense of creating a character and choosing the race, class, etc etc etc, but you have your character and you grow stronger as the game progresses and as you kill more enemies. I thoroughly enjoyed it many times over because it is more action oriented (not turn based), you can choose from two separate characters that are on the same quest, but the storyline and events are different depending on who you choose, and there are a number of very cool skills and abilities to learn.
Comments
I mean that you had to go right up to the edge of the screen before it scrolled. That was really annoying.
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(My memory might not be correct, I just remember getting annoyed with something along those lines. Hey, it was a long time ago.)</span>
Arcanum : Of Might and Magik
or, it was somethings like that...
[...] <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
it's Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> it got it, and played it alot when i first got it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> good game good game... but for nice rpg go for Fallout 1 and / or 2 <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Only game I've liked out of BioWare so far, the BG series didn't suit me at all. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Planescape: Torment was developed by Black Isle Studios, not Bioware. The company movies at the beginning of the game should have told you that.
I've got lots of fond memories of Gunstar Heroes, Bomberman, Secret of Mana, Worms, Bubble Bobble, etc. I loved co-op and it's a shame that few games have it now -.-
ooh! talking of coop; System Shock 2!!! <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<img src='http://www.pvponline.com/archive/2003/pvp20031017.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image'>
3D is a blessing and a curse for RPGs, makes them look nice but it takes much longer to create content. The only reason BG2 was able to be so big was because it used sprites and static backgrounds, if you tried that in 3D you would have to deal with video card compatability, clipping, speeds, etc. Thats why all the best and biggest party based RPGs are in 2D <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
/me looks for his SNES
I'm a HUGE fan of Shadowrun. The rules are a little hard to master, but if you like Ocean's Eleven / Italian Job, then that's the system for you.
Lies!
Secret of Mana h4xxxxx!!!!!oneone
I say if your going to make a PC game, make a PC game not a poorly translated representaion of a completely different play style. KotoR manages to acheive this to an extent as most of the D&D is behind closed doors, but every time i see the words "saving rolls" i shudder. It doesnt need dice, its a COMPUTER! Don't try and make the game into something its not.
/rant
RPG is about 'roleplay' not stats and numbers. It's about playing out your character and enjoying watching them develop and experiencing life in their weird and wonderful worlds. Some of the best 'sessions' I've ever had with my friends is when I toss the stupid rulebook, dice, paper, pens away and just leave it with the Players, the DM and a big bad ball of imagination ^^
The stats and stuff were just made to help GMs with tough decisions and give the whole thing a sense of scale; things not really needed by a good, experienced Gamemaster nor RPGs themselves (visibly at least). It's annoying that everything has lost it's personality and history in place of numbers and stupid stats.
Sorry guys but I'm just tired of hearing about how Level 45 Grundar went and popped a Level 38 Dragon with his Mace of Squidging +5 with 40% chance of stun against blobs and 80% extra chance of finding a pair of red socks in your washing machine, as apposed to The epic adventures of Scylla the warrior who managed to slay the dark dragon Carakdor with her trusty sword Galashiel =3
<b>Player1:</b> "cool, what does that sword do? Where'd you get it?"
<b>Grundar:</b> "A Level 23 Deathshark dropped it, took me 8 weeks to camp it but it's worth it because it's got 25% chance of smelling like cheese and it gives +5 bonusses to my concentration and theresasplinterinmyfinger stats!"
<b>Scylla:</b> "It kills things, I found it in the lost mines of sarakhel near the ancient dwarven tombs. Rumour has it that it was the sword that Klin Stonehammer used to slay Kluthkanard the Orc Shaman; the runes on its blade still writhe with the pain of the magic users death"
Computer RPGs don't really need stats; the PC offers better ways of simulating strength, dextersity, constitution & co. That's why I consider the Thief games the first 'true' PC RPGs.
If you are including Planescape: Torment into that list then you deserve a whack on the head. I couldn't even imagine one-fourth of the stuff that game has. When I saw those walking television sets I just told myself "This has got to be some twisted dream of mine." A giant iron statue of chaos trapped in a siege tower seeking escape through a little action-figure....you have to be an a** to say that you can actually imagine stuff like that. The Planescape setting is great but it doesn't allow you to imagine with pnp as much as you can with this game.
Go play Planescape: Torment and watch your reality get ripped apart and rebuilt every few hours.
And you're posting on a gamer forum? d00d, what's your point? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
...
As for RPG suggestions... If you consider Diablo 2 to be your kind of RPG, maybe Dungeon Siege? TBH, I haven't played more then the demo, which I thoroughly enjoyed.
'Course, if you consider Diablo to be an RPG, you might try Wolfenstein Enemy Territory, too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
The stats and stuff were just made to help GMs with tough decisions and give the whole thing a sense of scale; things not really needed by a good, experienced Gamemaster nor RPGs themselves (visibly at least). It's annoying that everything has lost it's personality and history in place of numbers and stupid stats.
Sorry guys but I'm just tired of hearing about how Level 45 Grundar went and popped a Level 38 Dragon with his Mace of Squidging +5 with 40% chance of stun against blobs and 80% extra chance of finding a pair of red socks in your washing machine, as apposed to The epic adventures of Scylla the warrior who managed to slay the dark dragon Carakdor with her trusty sword Galashiel =3 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
While I'm not into RPG's all that much, I feel the same way. Perhaps its the stats/numbers game that's keeping me from enjoying the typical RPG even more...
So, are there any good games out there that play like this, like how an RPG should, rather than "OMG I GOT level 96 and +25 wand of cardboarding! Now all I gotta do is kill giant rats for 30 more days before I can take on the end boss!" kind?
Unforunately the games development industry is littered with business people these days and their philosophy goes along the lines of 'different = risk, risk = loss of money' so don't expect to see anything genuinely fun pop it's head up too often until that changes (probably around the time 'fifa 4032: give us more money you losers' comes out) =s
Now, it wasn't an RPG, but everything flowed in combat. Your attacks were seamlessly linked, as if you were actually fighting. That's why PSO always struck me as the best RPG. Plenty of depth, but everything was literally REAL TIME. You didn't attack, stand around for 30 seconds, attack again. You attacked, dodged their attack, attacked again. It was smooth like a babies bottom.
and that's why I can't wait for KOTOR on PC.
The stats and stuff were just made to help GMs with tough decisions and give the whole thing a sense of scale; things not really needed by a good, experienced Gamemaster nor RPGs themselves (visibly at least). It's annoying that everything has lost it's personality and history in place of numbers and stupid stats.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And THAT's what made Planescape work so well. You start as a amnesiac, you can't go wrong with the choices you make, because you don't have a set character path. And there are a LOT of choices to make. The text descriptions, while seemingly daunting, described the world possibly more vividly than video could ever do. And the characters... hell yes, the characters rocked. It's a shame that even with the original weighing in at 4 CDs, there was very little voice acting, but the text conveyed everything perfectly.
One game that nobody has heard of is Threads of Fate, a very cool RPG-style game for the original Playstation. Its not an RPG in the sense of creating a character and choosing the race, class, etc etc etc, but you have your character and you grow stronger as the game progresses and as you kill more enemies. I thoroughly enjoyed it many times over because it is more action oriented (not turn based), you can choose from two separate characters that are on the same quest, but the storyline and events are different depending on who you choose, and there are a number of very cool skills and abilities to learn.