Most of this forum has been talking about /kill during combat. What about using it a as a strategic choice. For example: (this has actually happened to me)
Me and a small team of marines get ambushed in external overlook on ns_lost. they are all killed I am parasited and bought down to about 5 health and I am out of almost out of ammo, but all the aliens that attacked were killed, I use the /kill command to rejoin my team and to reset my stats. Is this an exploit?
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I mostly only use /kill against onos however...they seem to see it fit to devour a lot, so a /kill before they get the chance puts pay to their plans. The onos then learns and instead of devouring me, he just gores me. The idiots of course whine that I'm not letting them keep me in their belly for hours on end, despite how many times I tell them that goring me would kill me regardless of me pressing /kill or not. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is precisely the problem with /kill.. The point of devour is it keeps a marine OUT of the game for 30 seconds.. that's why it was put in... Otherwise they would just devour you and kill you instantly(yes they could do this)..
By /killing yourself just before, during, or after a devour then you are circumventing the whole point devour is in..
It's not about the kill, it's about the time you are unable to move/attack. /Kill saves you 27 seconds on most servers.
My answer is /kill should be set to 30 seconds on all servers by default... That way you can /kill yourself all you want..
<!--QuoteBegin--Nefilim+Sep 18 2003, 10:07 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nefilim @ Sep 18 2003, 10:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--XCan+Sep 18 2003, 08:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XCan @ Sep 18 2003, 08:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Nefilim+Sep 18 2003, 09:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nefilim @ Sep 18 2003, 09:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Tribes 2 added an insane amount of respawn lag if you commit suicide. Hence, unless you wanted to wait 45 seconds over normal respawn time to start playing again, you would just have to die the old fashion way. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That still wouldn't help as the Onos devour is much longer or nearly as long as it. Only reason people types kill is because being digested is so unbelievable boring.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If that's the case, then we could just add a minigame like Pong or Space Invaders while in an onos' stomach. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is what I want... something to do other than stare at a onos' digestive tract. Even looking at the map would be nice.
ZunniThe best thing to happen to I&S in a long whileJoin Date: 2002-11-26Member: 10016Members
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is what I want... something to do other than stare at a onos' digestive tract. Even looking at the map would be nice.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Community designed Flash animations <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The server I play on sets Suicide Delay to like 3-5 seconds. Add in the mandatory (10 second?) respawn delay and there's pretty much no way to really exploit the system.
1. Robbing the enemy of 1-3 resources isn't doing much for you, especially if you're anything but a skulk or vanilla marine. 2. Using it to 'get back to the hive' or 'get to the base since we don't have a PG' is going to be vaguely as time-effective as walking there manually in most cases. There will certainly be occasions where suiciding is faster, but not many. 3. Using it to 'escape being killed by a particular player' is completely meaningless as far as the game is concerned. It won't net you any advantage.
<i>The two situations where suicide is vaguely useful:</i> 1. Out of ammo, comm won't drop you any or can't afford to, far away from the nearest Armory. 2. Avoiding an inevitable death to a player you know will beat you.
Neither situation is particularly useful, certainly not powerful enough to warrant a change to the system.
I think the /kill delay would be more fair if you could only do it once a life.
Right now, if you hit kill by accident, all you have to do is keep hitting kill and it resets the counter...
With a 30 second delay, I always have kill ticking down; I just hit /kill every once in awhile to reset the counter if I know I'm not in danger.
Right now if you press your kill comand and it turns out you killed the guy you were attacking, all you have to do is hit /kill again.. and again... untill you really need to use the /kill command.
You know what would be great. If when a marine typed kill and the delay ran down. The marine took out his pistol and blew out his brains! I would pay for an animation like that!
Thing is,you dont run around with a finger poised over the kill button waiting to suicide at enemy players, if the onos takes me by suprise, ambushes or just happens to get me when i've still got ammo left and can fire, then so be it. Its when they Stomp, stand there like a lemon in front of you while they switch to devour, and then devour, thats ample warning for me to kill myself. Im not going to be free lunch.
I /kill to an onos devour for a few reasons, but the main one is devour is just an extremely annoying attack. Hearing some onos go AHHH **** when I suicide because they weren't smart enough to ambush me is just icing on the cake. Quite frankly, one ill turn deserves another, and /killing yourself before being devoured is just great because it SERIOUSLY annoys an onos.
The other reason is also because you mostly have 0 chance of being rescued. Especially on publics and ESPECIALLY with the sheer cheesiness of stomp. It seems that the onos just has an amazing amount of incredibly cheesy and annoying abilities sigh.
There is a very simple solution to stop people from suiciding. mp_killdelay anyone <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> This is what happens when admins get **** off over someone binding kill to a key.
In a server with suicide delay set to 4-10 seconds, players with "kill" bound to a key are the least of my worries.
As I said before, the situations where suiciding is actually beneficial are rare - and the benefit itself is relatively minor.
I have a hunch that most of the players that continually refresh the suicide timer are probably going to die to me anyway. Any player who thinks "kill" is particularly beneficial to him probably isn't smart enough to pose much of a threat to me in combat, or in the strategic aspects of the game.
i like "kill" becuase when im marine and were low on res and im parasited with 30hp or below, ill kill myself instead to save the team res and also not give that alien 1-3 resources that he might not even have to try getting
The only time I ever suicide other than when getting stuck on a server without the unstuck plugin is when I pub on servers where the aliens' only goal is to stomp/devour. I don't mind being digested a couple times, but it's boring as hell when it happens repeatedly.
<!--QuoteBegin--Axehilt+Sep 18 2003, 03:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Axehilt @ Sep 18 2003, 03:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As I said before, the situations where suiciding is actually beneficial are rare - and the benefit itself is relatively minor. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The benefits are minor, but they are benefits. A dead marine who doesn't know it yet will only end up donating to the Baby Onos Sancturary Fund, i'd rather take one for the team and not contribute.
Okay, here's my personal opinion on the matter (because that all what these are: Opinions.)
Nuking the kill command: Bad.
Binding kill to a keyboard button: Bad taste. (Unless you bind it to mouse1 just before you leave the computer lab. Then you're just mean. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Keeping a Kill countdown active: Downright stupid. You are not a nuclear device, Don't act like one.
I have no respect for people who use the kill command in combat. I find no flak with one suiciding because they have no health and are not in combat (Would you rather have them begging the comm every two seconds for a medpack?)
And for those of those who don't think the kill command is realistic: Get over it. Realistic games are boring. We'd only get to play them once, for starters. If this game were realistic, we'd be able to pick up ammo, and I'd mug one of my teammates to get my akimbo pistols. Oh yea, and that grenade spam would rip a hole in the hull (which sounds like a great way to get rid of the aliens, actually. Why can't we just suck the air out? Oh yea, then we wouldn't have a game.)
bind mouse5 kill = no happy meal Sitting around & watching the progress bar inside the onos' stomach is about as exciting watching moss grow. at least give me something to look at when I'm inside of that thing. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Most servers have their suicide delay set at 3 seconds, while you'll have some set at 30 or 45 seconds. I believe it should be 10-20 seconds. 3 seconds can still save you from the point where an Onos stomps you if you're fast or if you have it binded to a key. 30-45 seconds makes legit suicides painfully boring.
10-20 seconds (15 would probably be best) is closer to the respawn timer in NS and in most other games, so it's not excessive. And in most cases it won't save you in time.
I think the game should have a built-in default of 15 second suicides.
<!--QuoteBegin--Pa1adin+Sep 18 2003, 11:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pa1adin @ Sep 18 2003, 11:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Me and a small team of marines get ambushed in external overlook on ns_lost. they are all killed I am parasited and bought down to about 5 health and I am out of almost out of ammo, but all the aliens that attacked were killed, I use the /kill command to rejoin my team and to reset my stats. Is this an exploit? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I hope not, as I've been doing this since last November.
The alternative is to stand around uselessly in the marine spawn, whining about how you need a medpack. Or wander around the map, hoping you'll get lucky and find an OC or a steep drop.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The benefits are minor, but they are benefits. A dead marine who doesn't know it yet will only end up donating to the Baby Onos Sancturary Fund, i'd rather take one for the team and not contribute. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you know you're going to die 4 seconds in advance, go ahead and suicide. I don't feel that there are many situations where you know you're going to die 4+ seconds in advance - this could simply be that I'm an expert player and don't die that frequently. Sometimes I know when I'll die, but usually not 4+ seconds in advance. It's these rare times that I feel it's mildly beneficial to suicide - and I'll do it.
I guess it might be a bigger issue than I give credit - but only for players who don't survive very long. Personally, I survive a really long time - and it's rare that I find myself in a position where running back to an armory for ammo (or having the comm drop some) isn't faster than suiciding and waiting to respawn. I would definitely agree that it's better for a team's newbies to suicide whenever they get separated than to continue wandering around til they die (and give away free rez). Unfortunately, this balances itself out. As a newbie becomes aware of tricks like suicide, he's also getting better at the game - making it less and less worthwhile for him to suicide.
Speaking of running back to the Armory for some ammo - is it just me or do guns on the ground not keep track of their ammo count? I swear I've had times where the LMG I swapped out for had the same exact ammo count as I currently have. Just seems like there should be a better way of scavenging all that spare ammo together for my personal pile.
Suicide is really only especially useful for marines, because of their reliance on supplies, medpacks, ammo, that kind of thing. Individually, they are also weak, so keeping them nice and healthy is a commander's nightmare. If you are low on health, ammo, and have nothing to add to your team, and only your 1-3 res to give to the enemy, just /kill. Saves time, saves res, keeps the other team from getting what little they can out of you.
Suicide when stomped. You deprive a stupid onos of getting the lame, boring Stomp+Devour kill, not to mention drops your weapons within pickup range of your team, if you're carrying anything fun. Stomp is ridiculously broken anyway, so odds are you're toast, whatever the circumstances.
Find out that suiciding was a bad idea? NO PROBLEM. Keep hitting the kill button. Problem solved little noontches.
Hey aliens? Want to kill that marine? HERE IS A HINT FOR YUO!!!!!!!1 Kill him before he has time to hit his kill key. Can't do it? No res for you. Get over it. Aliens already have the stealth advantage. Sneak up on people or ambush them for chrisakes. And stop using stomp to get your devour kills. If you can't suck jetpack marines into your mouth from twenty feet away, you need more practice.
Zzzzzzzz. This is just one of those Wuh-Tuh-Fuh topics that somehow got to 4 pages, isn't it. If they fix /kill, break out the champagne. If they don't, OH GAWD THE HUMANITY, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO~! Because you know, it's just that huge an issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--lolfighter+Sep 18 2003, 02:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (lolfighter @ Sep 18 2003, 02:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> lolfighter evolves to Onos lolfighter runs into an otherwise empty room with four marines in it marines hit their kill key lolfighter runs out again four marines commit suicide simultaneously due to clever trick by lolfighter (shameless plug here) server crashes due to spam of ROFL!!!!11!1 in the chat
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This never happens. Ever.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Remember that the suicide countdown is cancelled once you're in mah belleh, so suiciding just before I get you won't do the trick. You'll have to do it in advance. But go ahead, you'll make it possible for me to pull this off. Feel free to make my day.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it isn't, you still suicide, where are you getting these falsehoods from? If you kill BEFORE devour, it'll still kill you. It also makes sense, if you take the pill before you're eaten, the pill still works...if you're in a belly, you can't take the pill at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It is annoying that some people does kill just before they get devoured. This upsets the game mechanics where the onos was supposed to get however much HP by devouring you, it was meant to keep you out of the game for 30 secs or something and that the onos loses out on the 1-3 rfk bonus. If you think thats fair then you are misguided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devour is the HA counter. If the HA kills himself, the lost res of that marine is worth more than the measly 1-3 rfk you'd get as an onos. If you're fighting a lone vanilla marine, why the hell are you devouring him? He can press kill, but he'll still die to you if you gore him...stop being so arty farty with your abilities, and just kill people. People (ie me) have got tired of getting devoured by onos's that want to have the satisfaction of devouring people, drawing out the game, rather than ending it, or getting killed due to marine strength. If I type kill and go up to you, and you devour me in the time you could have gore'd me to death, thats your own bad luck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel suiciding before getting devoured is a really bad. It should be classed in the same catergory as building outside the map and res towers falling through the grating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only people I've seen that actually care that they're not devouring me when I suicide 99% of the time, are people that are lame little gits that rather than play NS, want to play "hang around the base and devour for long and boring fun!"
Isn't NS a game where kills really aren't the aim of the game...so why are you bitching that the marine infront of you died by his own means...he died didn't he? That makes your job easier surely...and if he's got HA on, not only is he a fool, but he's doing you a favour.
In short words, live with it, /kill is perfectly fine as it is, it can't be exploited as how can dying be classed as a positive strategy?
<!--QuoteBegin--Zunni+Sep 18 2003, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zunni @ Sep 18 2003, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is precisely the problem with /kill.. The point of devour is it keeps a marine OUT of the game for 30 seconds.. that's why it was put in... Otherwise they would just devour you and kill you instantly(yes they could do this)..
It's not about the kill, it's about the time you are unable to move/attack. /Kill saves you 27 seconds on most servers.
My answer is /kill should be set to 30 seconds on all servers by default... That way you can /kill yourself all you want.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Was it? Funny how it's less than 30 seconds if the marine is injured isn't it...can I have documentation on your fact of what devour is meant to do?
Devour is meant to kill in one hit (fact), and as such is the obvious counter to HA (logic). I also believe the devour time is there not to **** marines off (though it does this really well), it is infact to give the marines a chance to save their buddy. Either way, devour is meant to ultimately make something die...why whine when the thing you're trying to kill is dying anyway?
I for one will be a proud joiner of the "retry from console" club if devour at any point becomes unstopable even to suicide before devouring. /kill is an extremely valid strategy to stop themselves being bumped out of the game for too long, like you say.
<!--QuoteBegin--Insanity~Gizmo+Sep 18 2003, 11:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Insanity~Gizmo @ Sep 18 2003, 11:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Binding kill to a keyboard button: Bad taste. (Unless you bind it to mouse1 just before you leave the computer lab. Then you're just mean. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> ) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why is it bad taste? Suiciding is an action..why go through the rigmarole of bringing the console down when you can have a key for it right there when you need it?
People bind their keyboard buttons to build OC's etc...the menu is right there, why not use that? Oh, because it's quicker and handier.
<!--QuoteBegin--JohnnySmash+Sep 19 2003, 01:47 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (JohnnySmash @ Sep 19 2003, 01:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think the game should have a built-in default of 15 second suicides. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right...so I know I can kill myself to avoid a devour. It doesn't matter how long the kill delay is (unless it's over 30), the fact is that it's down to you hitting kill quicker than the onos devours you. So in that case...why is 10-20 seconds better? You still sit in the onos. As a marine you sit there wasting time knowing you're going to die, and could have died 7-17 seconds earlier...and as an onos (if you happen to know he's suicided) you've got someone in your stomach, stopping yuo from devouring for 10-20 seconds...and you won't even get a benefit for it.
Or what if I'm parasited? Should I stand around for 15 seconds to wait to die?
How about those timed runs into areas that need to be attacked, but are severely defended. If it's 3 seconds I hit the button and run in (should that sort of thing be needed). If it's 15 seconds, all I'm going to do is stand around for 10 seconds and then run in.
No, a 3 second delay is perfectly fine...stops abuse of the kill command, but at the same time allows for its very valid use to be continued in FEW but useful situations.
<!--QuoteBegin--niaccurshi+Sep 18 2003, 06:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (niaccurshi @ Sep 18 2003, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why is it bad taste? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I only say this becuase it make the act of killing yourself easier, and therefore, easier to use in combat. I only use kill when I am not in combat, so I wouldn't need to bind it, and it gives that hidden skulk a cheap shot at me.
Additionally, my comp seems to like to press keys randomly for no reason while I'm in a half-life game. Bad to put something important on it. o.o
Personally i dont find it any fun what-so-ever. I play these games for fun, and although winning is better than loosing, id much rather feel i earnt that win. If im doing something that wasnt intended, or is unrealistic or whatever than i feel dirty, and quite frankly i feel like im cheating myself. I do tend to think alot of things are exploits, maybe this is a flaw but then id much rather play the game as a marine and feel that any success i get has been deserved, effectivly dieing to regroup with my team is what id call an exploit. Think about it, your a marine who just heroically survived an alien assault, with a few bullets left and cuts all over you, you then realise your the only one left and decide to die. Another person retakes your place but essentially the marine you were is dead, just because he couldnt be arsed to go find his team.
Comments
For example: (this has actually happened to me)
Me and a small team of marines get ambushed in external overlook on ns_lost. they are all killed I am parasited and bought down to about 5 health and I am out of almost out of ammo, but all the aliens that attacked were killed, I use the /kill command to rejoin my team and to reset my stats. Is this an exploit?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is precisely the problem with /kill..
The point of devour is it keeps a marine OUT of the game for 30 seconds.. that's why it was put in... Otherwise they would just devour you and kill you instantly(yes they could do this)..
By /killing yourself just before, during, or after a devour then you are circumventing the whole point devour is in..
It's not about the kill, it's about the time you are unable to move/attack. /Kill saves you 27 seconds on most servers.
My answer is /kill should be set to 30 seconds on all servers by default...
That way you can /kill yourself all you want..
That still wouldn't help as the Onos devour is much longer or nearly as long as it. Only reason people types kill is because being digested is so unbelievable boring.... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If that's the case, then we could just add a minigame like Pong or Space Invaders while in an onos' stomach. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is what I want... something to do other than stare at a onos' digestive tract. Even looking at the map would be nice.
Community designed Flash animations <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
1. Robbing the enemy of 1-3 resources isn't doing much for you, especially if you're anything but a skulk or vanilla marine.
2. Using it to 'get back to the hive' or 'get to the base since we don't have a PG' is going to be vaguely as time-effective as walking there manually in most cases. There will certainly be occasions where suiciding is faster, but not many.
3. Using it to 'escape being killed by a particular player' is completely meaningless as far as the game is concerned. It won't net you any advantage.
<i>The two situations where suicide is vaguely useful:</i>
1. Out of ammo, comm won't drop you any or can't afford to, far away from the nearest Armory.
2. Avoiding an inevitable death to a player you know will beat you.
Neither situation is particularly useful, certainly not powerful enough to warrant a change to the system.
Right now, if you hit kill by accident, all you have to do is keep hitting kill and it resets the counter...
With a 30 second delay, I always have kill ticking down; I just hit /kill every once in awhile to reset the counter if I know I'm not in danger.
Right now if you press your kill comand and it turns out you killed the guy you were attacking, all you have to do is hit /kill again.. and again... untill you really need to use the /kill command.
If when a marine typed kill and the delay ran down.
The marine took out his pistol and blew out his brains!
I would pay for an animation like that!
The other reason is also because you mostly have 0 chance of being rescued. Especially on publics and ESPECIALLY with the sheer cheesiness of stomp. It seems that the onos just has an amazing amount of incredibly cheesy and annoying abilities sigh.
This is what happens when admins get **** off over someone binding kill to a key.
As I said before, the situations where suiciding is actually beneficial are rare - and the benefit itself is relatively minor.
I have a hunch that most of the players that continually refresh the suicide timer are probably going to die to me anyway. Any player who thinks "kill" is particularly beneficial to him probably isn't smart enough to pose much of a threat to me in combat, or in the strategic aspects of the game.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The benefits are minor, but they are benefits. A dead marine who doesn't know it yet will only end up donating to the Baby Onos Sancturary Fund, i'd rather take one for the team and not contribute.
Nuking the kill command: Bad.
Binding kill to a keyboard button: Bad taste. (Unless you bind it to mouse1 just before you leave the computer lab. Then you're just mean. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> )
Keeping a Kill countdown active: Downright stupid. You are not a nuclear device, Don't act like one.
I have no respect for people who use the kill command in combat. I find no flak with one suiciding because they have no health and are not in combat (Would you rather have them begging the comm every two seconds for a medpack?)
And for those of those who don't think the kill command is realistic: Get over it. Realistic games are boring. We'd only get to play them once, for starters. If this game were realistic, we'd be able to pick up ammo, and I'd mug one of my teammates to get my akimbo pistols. Oh yea, and that grenade spam would rip a hole in the hull (which sounds like a great way to get rid of the aliens, actually. Why can't we just suck the air out? Oh yea, then we wouldn't have a game.)
Cheers.
Sitting around & watching the progress bar inside the onos' stomach is about as exciting watching moss grow. at least give me something to look at when I'm inside of that thing. <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
10-20 seconds (15 would probably be best) is closer to the respawn timer in NS and in most other games, so it's not excessive. And in most cases it won't save you in time.
I think the game should have a built-in default of 15 second suicides.
-JohnnySmash
I hope not, as I've been doing this since last November.
The alternative is to stand around uselessly in the marine spawn, whining about how you need a medpack. Or wander around the map, hoping you'll get lucky and find an OC or a steep drop.
If you know you're going to die 4 seconds in advance, go ahead and suicide. I don't feel that there are many situations where you know you're going to die 4+ seconds in advance - this could simply be that I'm an expert player and don't die that frequently. Sometimes I know when I'll die, but usually not 4+ seconds in advance. It's these rare times that I feel it's mildly beneficial to suicide - and I'll do it.
I guess it might be a bigger issue than I give credit - but only for players who don't survive very long. Personally, I survive a really long time - and it's rare that I find myself in a position where running back to an armory for ammo (or having the comm drop some) isn't faster than suiciding and waiting to respawn. I would definitely agree that it's better for a team's newbies to suicide whenever they get separated than to continue wandering around til they die (and give away free rez). Unfortunately, this balances itself out. As a newbie becomes aware of tricks like suicide, he's also getting better at the game - making it less and less worthwhile for him to suicide.
Speaking of running back to the Armory for some ammo - is it just me or do guns on the ground not keep track of their ammo count? I swear I've had times where the LMG I swapped out for had the same exact ammo count as I currently have. Just seems like there should be a better way of scavenging all that spare ammo together for my personal pile.
Keep in mind, I have kill bound to "t".
Suicide is really only especially useful for marines, because of their reliance on supplies, medpacks, ammo, that kind of thing. Individually, they are also weak, so keeping them nice and healthy is a commander's nightmare. If you are low on health, ammo, and have nothing to add to your team, and only your 1-3 res to give to the enemy, just /kill. Saves time, saves res, keeps the other team from getting what little they can out of you.
Suicide when stomped. You deprive a stupid onos of getting the lame, boring Stomp+Devour kill, not to mention drops your weapons within pickup range of your team, if you're carrying anything fun. Stomp is ridiculously broken anyway, so odds are you're toast, whatever the circumstances.
Find out that suiciding was a bad idea? NO PROBLEM. Keep hitting the kill button. Problem solved little noontches.
Hey aliens? Want to kill that marine? HERE IS A HINT FOR YUO!!!!!!!1 Kill him before he has time to hit his kill key. Can't do it? No res for you. Get over it. Aliens already have the stealth advantage. Sneak up on people or ambush them for chrisakes. And stop using stomp to get your devour kills. If you can't suck jetpack marines into your mouth from twenty feet away, you need more practice.
Zzzzzzzz. This is just one of those Wuh-Tuh-Fuh topics that somehow got to 4 pages, isn't it. If they fix /kill, break out the champagne. If they don't, OH GAWD THE HUMANITY, NOOOOOOOOOOOOO~! Because you know, it's just that huge an issue.
lolfighter runs into an otherwise empty room with four marines in it
marines hit their kill key
lolfighter runs out again
four marines commit suicide simultaneously due to clever trick by lolfighter (shameless plug here)
server crashes due to spam of ROFL!!!!11!1 in the chat
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This never happens. Ever.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Remember that the suicide countdown is cancelled once you're in mah belleh, so suiciding just before I get you won't do the trick. You'll have to do it in advance. But go ahead, you'll make it possible for me to pull this off. Feel free to make my day.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it isn't, you still suicide, where are you getting these falsehoods from? If you kill BEFORE devour, it'll still kill you. It also makes sense, if you take the pill before you're eaten, the pill still works...if you're in a belly, you can't take the pill at all.
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It is annoying that some people does kill just before they get devoured. This upsets the game mechanics where the onos was supposed to get however much HP by devouring you, it was meant to keep you out of the game for 30 secs or something and that the onos loses out on the 1-3 rfk bonus. If you think thats fair then you are misguided.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Devour is the HA counter. If the HA kills himself, the lost res of that marine is worth more than the measly 1-3 rfk you'd get as an onos. If you're fighting a lone vanilla marine, why the hell are you devouring him? He can press kill, but he'll still die to you if you gore him...stop being so arty farty with your abilities, and just kill people. People (ie me) have got tired of getting devoured by onos's that want to have the satisfaction of devouring people, drawing out the game, rather than ending it, or getting killed due to marine strength. If I type kill and go up to you, and you devour me in the time you could have gore'd me to death, thats your own bad luck.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I feel suiciding before getting devoured is a really bad. It should be classed in the same catergory as building outside the map and res towers falling through the grating.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only people I've seen that actually care that they're not devouring me when I suicide 99% of the time, are people that are lame little gits that rather than play NS, want to play "hang around the base and devour for long and boring fun!"
Isn't NS a game where kills really aren't the aim of the game...so why are you bitching that the marine infront of you died by his own means...he died didn't he? That makes your job easier surely...and if he's got HA on, not only is he a fool, but he's doing you a favour.
In short words, live with it, /kill is perfectly fine as it is, it can't be exploited as how can dying be classed as a positive strategy?
-Lee
The point of devour is it keeps a marine OUT of the game for 30 seconds.. that's why it was put in... Otherwise they would just devour you and kill you instantly(yes they could do this)..
It's not about the kill, it's about the time you are unable to move/attack. /Kill saves you 27 seconds on most servers.
My answer is /kill should be set to 30 seconds on all servers by default...
That way you can /kill yourself all you want.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Was it? Funny how it's less than 30 seconds if the marine is injured isn't it...can I have documentation on your fact of what devour is meant to do?
Devour is meant to kill in one hit (fact), and as such is the obvious counter to HA (logic). I also believe the devour time is there not to **** marines off (though it does this really well), it is infact to give the marines a chance to save their buddy. Either way, devour is meant to ultimately make something die...why whine when the thing you're trying to kill is dying anyway?
I for one will be a proud joiner of the "retry from console" club if devour at any point becomes unstopable even to suicide before devouring. /kill is an extremely valid strategy to stop themselves being bumped out of the game for too long, like you say.
-Lee
Why is it bad taste? Suiciding is an action..why go through the rigmarole of bringing the console down when you can have a key for it right there when you need it?
People bind their keyboard buttons to build OC's etc...the menu is right there, why not use that? Oh, because it's quicker and handier.
-Lee
Right...so I know I can kill myself to avoid a devour. It doesn't matter how long the kill delay is (unless it's over 30), the fact is that it's down to you hitting kill quicker than the onos devours you. So in that case...why is 10-20 seconds better? You still sit in the onos. As a marine you sit there wasting time knowing you're going to die, and could have died 7-17 seconds earlier...and as an onos (if you happen to know he's suicided) you've got someone in your stomach, stopping yuo from devouring for 10-20 seconds...and you won't even get a benefit for it.
Or what if I'm parasited? Should I stand around for 15 seconds to wait to die?
How about those timed runs into areas that need to be attacked, but are severely defended. If it's 3 seconds I hit the button and run in (should that sort of thing be needed). If it's 15 seconds, all I'm going to do is stand around for 10 seconds and then run in.
No, a 3 second delay is perfectly fine...stops abuse of the kill command, but at the same time allows for its very valid use to be continued in FEW but useful situations.
-Lee
I only say this becuase it make the act of killing yourself easier, and therefore, easier to use in combat. I only use kill when I am not in combat, so I wouldn't need to bind it, and it gives that hidden skulk a cheap shot at me.
Additionally, my comp seems to like to press keys randomly for no reason while I'm in a half-life game. Bad to put something important on it. o.o
Moving
Using an ability/weapon
Taking Damage
Devoured
So if you need to commit suicide for a legit reason, just type kill and stand still for a few seconds.
Personally i dont find it any fun what-so-ever. I play these games for fun, and although winning is better than loosing, id much rather feel i earnt that win. If im doing something that wasnt intended, or is unrealistic or whatever than i feel dirty, and quite frankly i feel like im cheating myself.
I do tend to think alot of things are exploits, maybe this is a flaw but then id much rather play the game as a marine and feel that any success i get has been deserved, effectivly dieing to regroup with my team is what id call an exploit.
Think about it, your a marine who just heroically survived an alien assault, with a few bullets left and cuts all over you, you then realise your the only one left and decide to die. Another person retakes your place but essentially the marine you were is dead, just because he couldnt be arsed to go find his team.