Turrent Farming Must Die
Vash
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8333Members
Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8333Members
<div class="IPBDescription">It's just lame now</div> This picture is from a game I just played. The game lasted well over an hour and a half, because of the marines sitting in their base with a **** massive unbreakable turret farm. With constant grenade spam, nothing could even come near the entrance. I managed to get in and xenocide 2 or 3 times, the rest I was shot down or caught in grenade blasts. I tried going redemp onos and charging over and over, but unfortunately grenade spam killed me before redemption took effect. This game did not end. We sat on our **** and waited til an admin came in and changed the map for us.
Am I the only one that sees a problem in this?
Am I the only one that sees a problem in this?
Comments
OMG WTH LOOK AT THE UBERLY CANNON !!!1111!! oneoneoneelevenwin!
*ahem*
I said it before, others have as well... the TF's need a maximum number of turrets in my opinion
Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
-Seriously... *THAT* is a siege cannon!
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Well, they had 4 tf ... Would it help, you think? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
(But I love the siege there!)
three or four gorges rushing into that setup launching bile bombs off WILL kill the turret farm quickly; and remember that you do not have to be in direct sight of a turret to damage it. that will kill the turret farms off quickly, and these will deal with the marines:
How?
1- Knock out their only res tower. They can only get res for killing aliens now.
2- Kill their obs to remove their ability to seige automatically (within range of obs), their MT, AND emergancy beacon.
3- Then go for their sieges. about 8+ bile bombs should kill it.
4- Proto goes next, we cant have them getting heavy armor or jetpacks
5- If possible, take out the armory; if not go for the arms lab so they cant re-build protolab with too much ease.
6- Keep working on the turrets; taking out the turret factory can be redundant. Think about StarCraft and the protoss Cannons/Pylons. If there's only 1 pylon supporting the cannons go for it, but dont bother if there's 5. Also remember that if you fail to take out everything a marine can just come back in and rebuild the turret factory and farm; the equivelant of a probe comming in to build a new pylon bringing all the cannons back on-line.
Of course this could all be avoided if Flayra would put in a cap on turrets per turret factory... *HINT* *HINT*
as marines, three of us held of about 5 aliens with a excellent turret farm in nothing. we had 3 electrifed tfs as the front line so onos got killed instantly form elctricity, we had gls and welders. took a game that would have been about 10 minutes (startted with just me vs 1 alien) into a 2 1/2 hour alamo. eventually killed us w/ spores in the vent
Did you try going Fade and Blink to their CC and destroy it??
2) Marines spawn very quickly, so killing a marine will only take him out of action for a few seconds.
3) Any weapons the marines can buy on their one res node + rfk will probably last for ever, since it only takes one marine to pick it up again
4) Marine buildings can be quickly repaired by welding. If you don't destroy a building pretty damn quick, you haven't effectively done anything.
The main problem is that a turtled marine base should be starved of res, but in reality doesn't actually need any. They are normally fully or nearly fully teched. What are their costs? Any weapons bought will last a very long time. They may have to replace a few buildings every now then, but r4k should easily handle that expense if marines are welding sensible. The only things a turtled marine base can't afford to keep equipped are HA and JP, since they are lost when the marine dies. Where are you going to go with a JP? And who cares if you don't have HA, someone can pick up your gun, and you'll respawn in a few seconds.
Marines need to be made less res independant, so that they can no longer maintain an almost fully equipped squad indefinately on only one res node. I think thats the main problem, not the turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I posted that in another thread, and no one posted a reply, so i thought i'd repeat it.
My point is its not really the turret farms that are the problem (although they do make it worse).
I fully agree. Marine R4K must go. Marines must get a different kind of res boost to make up for that of course, such as the already-discussed RT effectivity upgrade, but it must be something that doesn't allow marines to drag out lost games almost indefinitely
One thing to do would be to stop marines picking up dropped weapons, but this was tried and rejected for some reason (I believe), and it is a sort of fun aspect of playing marines.
OMG WTH LOOK AT THE UBERLY CANNON !!!1111!! oneoneoneelevenwin!
*ahem*
-Seriously... *THAT* is a siege cannon! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is Sheena Yanai's GPP siege replacement, looks to have different legs though, the ones on her existing model were over 1,000 polies, the complete model was over 1,700 >_<
Back on topic, yes, i think turret farming has reached a new level in 2.0, with the increased accuracy and HP of the turrets, a well layed out farm can last for hours with support. I've even seen marines save enough res from farming their base and killing attacking aliens for over an hour, to equip a HA/HMG squad and kill all the hives, hardly fair.
calm down guys its not that bad
Everyone has seen a turret farm, but many haven't seen turret llamahs.
That is actually improvable in terms of turret llamahness. It could be FAR FAR worse.
It's like two kids are playing Tic-Tac-Toe and the game looks something like this:
X O X
O X O
_ X _
And the kid playing "O" refuses to make a mark for over four hours, knowing he'll lose no matter what.
Becuase they are doing other things like defending hives and the like. The turret llamah prepares in advance for the llarm to be built. The turret farmer is just desperate.
You don't GET a chance to break this because the marines AREN'T spending all game building it. It is aquired slowly and made with care like a fine cheese.
So? In almost every marine start location (which is where most farming occurs), the most vunerable thing to attack is the resource tower. Even better, it's a lot harder to shoot stuff standing behind a res tower, especially oni thanks to their weird hit box. Hera, Nothing, Tanith, Veil, Eclipse, Lost, Origin and Caged all have resource nodes that are a lot easier to attack than the main section of the base. Mineshaft and Bast are the exceptions: taking these out can be quite tough. I'm glad to see though that my idea for bringing upgraded RTs back into the game is still hanging around <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Res though isn't the problem. Neither are turrets. Turrets are easily taken down despite what many people will say. The main problem is gren spammage.
Standing behind an armoury, a marine can hold down his use key (usually e) and his attack button and fire forever. That's right, as soon as the grenade is launched a new one is loaded and this endlessly repeats. There is no pause, there is no space, just thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk. Today we had the spawn on ns_nothing camped like that, one armoury up the top on the little ledge with 2 grenediers spamming the exit out to cargo and another one covering the exit out to silo. The only way they got in was as carapaced oni that managed to take down our rt about a dozen times. Thanks to RFKs, we got it back up each time. It only ended when we got fed up and recycled our ips then jumped into the hole <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Something has to be done about the capacity for GLs to be used like that. If they worked like they were supposed to, then at least the aliens would have a small window of time during the reload to get inside the spawn. Whats worse is that CLANS are using this stratagy in wars: win as aliens, and then lame up your spawn so you win on time. We had a clan game go for 40 minutes of which 25 was attacking a lamed up spawn on Veil. We had to use SIX carapaced oni to break in, and five of them died. Any lower lifeform inst-gibbed anywhere near their spawn: the gl spam was that bad.
Title: <b>Turrent</b> Farming Must Die
Is it really hard to spell turret...
Well in those cases you cant count on Bilebomb and acid rocket
sorry it just really annoys me, even more than disorganised aliens vs turret farm games.
oh btw
TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET
edit: oh one thing that leads to this sort of standard is the silly myth going around that redemption is actually a good upgrade for onos in the end game, in these situatiions. Try regeneration onos, that thing is the best for clearing out tfarms since your healing rate is greater than about 3-4 turrets.
Try not using redemption as Onos.
Redemption onos is good for defence and useless for offence. Regen onos is good for both. <b>Remember</b>
2 Gorges bile bombing.
2 Fades with Acid Rocket.
2 Lerks for Umbra and Primal Scream.
Alternatively you can try to rush with 6 Oni (Carapace or Regeneration recommended).
Also a group of xenociding skulks (timing is important here) can do sewere damage to the base.
Due to the changes Lerks and Fades have gone through in 2.0 many pubbers tend to underestimate their power especially in late game.
With Acid Rocket you can take out key buildings like the TFs quite precisly or eliminate the welding Marines.
With Primal Scream and Adrenalin the Fades and Gorges can literary endless fire Acid Rockets and Bile Bombs.
Most important rule is to coordinate and concentrate your power to key buildings and not to jump in the base hoping to take at least one Marine with you when dying.
Try to take our their late RT and die as few times as possible, giving them no RFK and letting them starve on Res.
And a small anecdote to illustrate why redemption is bad on an onos:
<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> vs. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->
Me being the lerk. I believe it was ns_nothing. Well, teamworky as me and the gorge was, we eagerly followed the two big tanky onos into battle in marine start. I sprayed around with umbra, and the gorge healed and biled like a mad, while the onos ran around eating and goring and stomping. Then suddenly, without a warning, both onos disappeared. After eating one marine each.
I looked at the gorge. The gorge looked at me. We both turned slowly towards the newly respawned marines with their evil grins. The *blip* *blip* *blip* from the turrets counted down the timer of doom as they homed in on us.
We were ripped apart just as the two marines the onos had eaten were digested.
<!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
2 Gorges bile bombing.
2 Fades with Acid Rocket.
2 Lerks for Umbra and Primal Scream.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This works if they aren't in a good position, and don't have lots of GLs.
And I totally agree, regen/celerity = best onos upgrade. On the other hand, on caged it doesn't work. There were so many turrets and GLs that you couldn't get back down the corridor without dying, even if you don't take a swipe - and that was with umbra. The skulks died in the middle of their leap into the base.
R4K
omg stupid board code! wheres meh' php when ya need it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Or <b>R</b>eward <b>for</b> <b>K</b>amping, in this case...
I am going to start a petition to have the word "turrent/s" swear filtered to turret/s.
Ok its going to take Commander time to realize that spending 200 res on turrets is a waste and its smarter to spend that to give ppl upgrades and armor and everything else!
3 Gorges and a few lerks could have smoked that Farm, while the Fades, Oni and xeno Skulks, took care of the rines!