Turrent Farming Must Die

VashVash Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8333Members
<div class="IPBDescription">It's just lame now</div> This picture is from a game I just played. The game lasted well over an hour and a half, because of the marines sitting in their base with a **** massive unbreakable turret farm. With constant grenade spam, nothing could even come near the entrance. I managed to get in and xenocide 2 or 3 times, the rest I was shot down or caught in grenade blasts. I tried going redemp onos and charging over and over, but unfortunately grenade spam killed me before redemption took effect. This game did not end. We sat on our **** and waited til an admin came in and changed the map for us.

Am I the only one that sees a problem in this?
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Comments

  • ThinGThinG Lord of wub and vlaai Join Date: 2003-04-11 Member: 15400Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    edited August 2003
    First of all:

    OMG WTH LOOK AT THE UBERLY CANNON !!!1111!! oneoneoneelevenwin!

    *ahem*

    I said it before, others have as well... the TF's need a maximum number of turrets in my opinion

    Cheers <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->

    -Seriously... *THAT* is a siege cannon!
  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    <!--QuoteBegin--ThinG+Aug 15 2003, 04:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThinG @ Aug 15 2003, 04:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I said it before, others have as well... the TF's need a maximum number of turrets in my opinion
    <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Well, they had 4 tf ... Would it help, you think? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->

    (But I love the siege there!)
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    I dont think that 20 turrets would stop an almost full team of umbraed onos at once and as for the gren spam... where? I see like 1 guy at the armoury and there are 3 entrances... Its simple: Onos do damage, rines cant replace turrets cause theyre in a last stand situation. If youre really lazy kill the rines either way its a 5 minute job tops. I mean 3 hives ffs!
  • ZiGGYZiGGY Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Members
    yeah its the kinda siege you can only build with a 4upg tf ring <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • MavericMaveric Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Members
    two words: BILE BOMB.

    three or four gorges rushing into that setup launching bile bombs off WILL kill the turret farm quickly; and remember that you do not have to be in direct sight of a turret to damage it. that will kill the turret farms off quickly, and these will deal with the marines:

    How?
    1- Knock out their only res tower. They can only get res for killing aliens now.
    2- Kill their obs to remove their ability to seige automatically (within range of obs), their MT, AND emergancy beacon.
    3- Then go for their sieges. about 8+ bile bombs should kill it.
    4- Proto goes next, we cant have them getting heavy armor or jetpacks
    5- If possible, take out the armory; if not go for the arms lab so they cant re-build protolab with too much ease.
    6- Keep working on the turrets; taking out the turret factory can be redundant. Think about StarCraft and the protoss Cannons/Pylons. If there's only 1 pylon supporting the cannons go for it, but dont bother if there's 5. Also remember that if you fail to take out everything a marine can just come back in and rebuild the turret factory and farm; the equivelant of a probe comming in to build a new pylon bringing all the cannons back on-line.


    Of course this could all be avoided if Flayra would put in a cap on turrets per turret factory... *HINT* *HINT*
  • VashVash Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8333Members
    Trust me..we tried everything. The massive amount of damage from the grenades overwhelmed anything. We had the entire team go onos and charge, maybe 2 of them lived. The rest just got slaughtered by nades. Skulks could rarely make it all the way in and actually pull of a Xenocide. The 2 rooms outside the base were flooded with constant explosions..as soon as a Lerk walked into either of these rooms they were killed almost immediately. No amount of acid rockets could keep up with the constant welding of everything in the base. And of course bile bomb has to be shot in an arc and since it was now put on the weakest most pathetic evolution it was useless to even try.
  • BogglesteinskyBogglesteinsky Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11488Members
    a cap on turrets per tf would just encourage more tfs

    as marines, three of us held of about 5 aliens with a excellent turret farm in nothing. we had 3 electrifed tfs as the front line so onos got killed instantly form elctricity, we had gls and welders. took a game that would have been about 10 minutes (startted with just me vs 1 alien) into a 2 1/2 hour alamo. eventually killed us w/ spores in the vent
  • RaVeRaVe Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17538Members
    How do define everything??

    Did you try going Fade and Blink to their CC and destroy it??
  • ChoirsChoirs Join Date: 2003-08-15 Member: 19739Members
    its quite obvious some of u people have never had a major turret farm game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • mojojojomojojojo Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2017Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> 1) Marines spawn already upgraded.
    2) Marines spawn very quickly, so killing a marine will only take him out of action for a few seconds.
    3) Any weapons the marines can buy on their one res node + rfk will probably last for ever, since it only takes one marine to pick it up again
    4) Marine buildings can be quickly repaired by welding. If you don't destroy a building pretty damn quick, you haven't effectively done anything.

    The main problem is that a turtled marine base should be starved of res, but in reality doesn't actually need any. They are normally fully or nearly fully teched. What are their costs? Any weapons bought will last a very long time. They may have to replace a few buildings every now then, but r4k should easily handle that expense if marines are welding sensible. The only things a turtled marine base can't afford to keep equipped are HA and JP, since they are lost when the marine dies. Where are you going to go with a JP? And who cares if you don't have HA, someone can pick up your gun, and you'll respawn in a few seconds.

    Marines need to be made less res independant, so that they can no longer maintain an almost fully equipped squad indefinately on only one res node. I think thats the main problem, not the turrets.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I posted that in another thread, and no one posted a reply, so i thought i'd repeat it.
    My point is its not really the turret farms that are the problem (although they do make it worse).
  • DenialDenial Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--mojojojo+Aug 15 2003, 05:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mojojojo @ Aug 15 2003, 05:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Marines need to be made less res independant, so that they can no longer maintain an almost fully equipped squad indefinately on only one res node. I think thats the main problem, not the turrets. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I fully agree. Marine R4K must go. Marines must get a different kind of res boost to make up for that of course, such as the already-discussed RT effectivity upgrade, but it must be something that doesn't allow marines to drag out lost games almost indefinitely
  • mojojojomojojojo Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2017Members
    Marines not getting r4k and having a resource tower upgrade instead would worsen the current situation where aliens already rapidly out tech marines in the early game. And in the turtle position, marines would be almost guaranteed to have an upgraded resource tower, which would make things worse.

    One thing to do would be to stop marines picking up dropped weapons, but this was tried and rejected for some reason (I believe), and it is a sort of fun aspect of playing marines.
  • ArsoNArsoN Join Date: 2003-06-10 Member: 17177Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--ThinG+Aug 15 2003, 09:11 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ThinG @ Aug 15 2003, 09:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> First of all:

    OMG WTH LOOK AT THE UBERLY CANNON !!!1111!! oneoneoneelevenwin!

    *ahem*

    -Seriously... *THAT* is a siege cannon! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That is Sheena Yanai's GPP siege replacement, looks to have different legs though, the ones on her existing model were over 1,000 polies, the complete model was over 1,700 >_<

    Back on topic, yes, i think turret farming has reached a new level in 2.0, with the increased accuracy and HP of the turrets, a well layed out farm can last for hours with support. I've even seen marines save enough res from farming their base and killing attacking aliens for over an hour, to equip a HA/HMG squad and kill all the hives, hardly fair.
  • DenialDenial Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
    I don't think it would make the situation worse. The upgrade might cost something like 5-10 res (affordable at game start), increase res output by 25% (nice, but not too much at game end) and be incompatible with electrification (discourages use in home base).
  • GREENEGGSANDHAMGREENEGGSANDHAM Join Date: 2003-04-25 Member: 15836Members
    edited August 2003
    omg a stalemate!
    calm down guys its not that bad
  • AegeriAegeri Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13486Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--Choirs+Aug 15 2003, 04:37 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Choirs @ Aug 15 2003, 04:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> its quite obvious some of u people have never had a major turret farm game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Everyone has seen a turret farm, but many haven't seen turret llamahs.

    That is actually improvable in terms of turret llamahness. It could be FAR FAR worse.
  • NefilimNefilim Join Date: 2003-08-09 Member: 19222Members, Constellation
    Games like this are the ones I think it's okay for everyone to F4 just to end the damned thing. Either that, or recycle the IPs. Games are meant to be fun, not long, dredging, boring **** stalemates where nothing is achieved.

    It's like two kids are playing Tic-Tac-Toe and the game looks something like this:
    X O X
    O X O
    _ X _

    And the kid playing "O" refuses to make a mark for over four hours, knowing he'll lose no matter what.
  • TeoHTeoH Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11640Members
    The more pressing question is: Why did you let it get that far in the first place instead of organising an attack when the marine base was not completely lamed to hell.
  • AegeriAegeri Join Date: 2003-02-13 Member: 13486Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--TeoH+Aug 15 2003, 06:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TeoH @ Aug 15 2003, 06:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The more pressing question is: Why did you let it get that far in the first place instead of organising an attack when the marine base was not completely lamed to hell. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Becuase they are doing other things like defending hives and the like. The turret llamah prepares in advance for the llarm to be built. The turret farmer is just desperate.

    You don't GET a chance to break this because the marines AREN'T spending all game building it. It is aquired slowly and made with care like a fine cheese.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Members
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And in the turtle position, marines would be almost guaranteed to have an upgraded resource tower<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So? In almost every marine start location (which is where most farming occurs), the most vunerable thing to attack is the resource tower. Even better, it's a lot harder to shoot stuff standing behind a res tower, especially oni thanks to their weird hit box. Hera, Nothing, Tanith, Veil, Eclipse, Lost, Origin and Caged all have resource nodes that are a lot easier to attack than the main section of the base. Mineshaft and Bast are the exceptions: taking these out can be quite tough. I'm glad to see though that my idea for bringing upgraded RTs back into the game is still hanging around <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Res though isn't the problem. Neither are turrets. Turrets are easily taken down despite what many people will say. The main problem is gren spammage.

    Standing behind an armoury, a marine can hold down his use key (usually e) and his attack button and fire forever. That's right, as soon as the grenade is launched a new one is loaded and this endlessly repeats. There is no pause, there is no space, just thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk. Today we had the spawn on ns_nothing camped like that, one armoury up the top on the little ledge with 2 grenediers spamming the exit out to cargo and another one covering the exit out to silo. The only way they got in was as carapaced oni that managed to take down our rt about a dozen times. Thanks to RFKs, we got it back up each time. It only ended when we got fed up and recycled our ips then jumped into the hole <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Something has to be done about the capacity for GLs to be used like that. If they worked like they were supposed to, then at least the aliens would have a small window of time during the reload to get inside the spawn. Whats worse is that CLANS are using this stratagy in wars: win as aliens, and then lame up your spawn so you win on time. We had a clan game go for 40 minutes of which 25 was attacking a lamed up spawn on Veil. We had to use SIX carapaced oni to break in, and five of them died. Any lower lifeform inst-gibbed anywhere near their spawn: the gl spam was that bad.
  • SinSpawnSinSpawn Harbinger of Suffering Join Date: 2002-11-12 Member: 8359Members
    ....

    Title: <b>Turrent</b> Farming Must Die

    Is it really hard to spell turret...

    Well in those cases you cant count on Bilebomb and acid rocket
  • NicatorNicator Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10829Members
    For the people saying bile bomb, try the marine base on caged. With massive numbers of turrets, and 3+ grenade launchers, it is truly impossible to kill. Gorges can't get close enough to BB, skulks can't get in to xenocide, onos die/redeem almost before they even reach the farm. Fades die mid blink because the turrets are so stupidly accurate.
  • sejsej Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12488Members
    edited August 2003
    TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET


    sorry it just really annoys me, even more than disorganised aliens vs turret farm games.


    oh btw

    TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET TURRET


    edit: oh one thing that leads to this sort of standard is the silly myth going around that redemption is actually a good upgrade for onos in the end game, in these situatiions. Try regeneration onos, that thing is the best for clearing out tfarms since your healing rate is greater than about 3-4 turrets.


    Try not using redemption as Onos.

    Redemption onos is good for defence and useless for offence. Regen onos is good for both. <b>Remember</b>
  • HypergripHypergrip Suspect Germany Join Date: 2002-11-23 Member: 9689Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
    answer to turret farms:
    2 Gorges bile bombing.
    2 Fades with Acid Rocket.
    2 Lerks for Umbra and Primal Scream.

    Alternatively you can try to rush with 6 Oni (Carapace or Regeneration recommended).

    Also a group of xenociding skulks (timing is important here) can do sewere damage to the base.

    Due to the changes Lerks and Fades have gone through in 2.0 many pubbers tend to underestimate their power especially in late game.
    With Acid Rocket you can take out key buildings like the TFs quite precisly or eliminate the welding Marines.
    With Primal Scream and Adrenalin the Fades and Gorges can literary endless fire Acid Rockets and Bile Bombs.

    Most important rule is to coordinate and concentrate your power to key buildings and not to jump in the base hoping to take at least one Marine with you when dying.
    Try to take our their late RT and die as few times as possible, giving them no RFK and letting them starve on Res.
  • tankefugltankefugl One Script To Rule Them All... Trondheim, Norway Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8641Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    Ah, TURRET, yes!

    And a small anecdote to illustrate why redemption is bad on an onos:

    <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::lerk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/lerk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lerk.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo--> vs. <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo-->

    Me being the lerk. I believe it was ns_nothing. Well, teamworky as me and the gorge was, we eagerly followed the two big tanky onos into battle in marine start. I sprayed around with umbra, and the gorge healed and biled like a mad, while the onos ran around eating and goring and stomping. Then suddenly, without a warning, both onos disappeared. After eating one marine each.

    I looked at the gorge. The gorge looked at me. We both turned slowly towards the newly respawned marines with their evil grins. The *blip* *blip* *blip* from the turrets counted down the timer of doom as they homed in on us.

    We were ripped apart just as the two marines the onos had eaten were digested.

    <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • NicatorNicator Join Date: 2002-12-15 Member: 10829Members
    edited August 2003
    <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> answer to turret farms:
    2 Gorges bile bombing.
    2 Fades with Acid Rocket.
    2 Lerks for Umbra and Primal Scream.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This works if they aren't in a good position, and don't have lots of GLs.


    And I totally agree, regen/celerity = best onos upgrade. On the other hand, on caged it doesn't work. There were so many turrets and GLs that you couldn't get back down the corridor without dying, even if you don't take a swipe - and that was with umbra. The skulks died in the middle of their leap into the base.
  • DoombringerDoombringer Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8679Members, Constellation
    R4K? I'm out of touch, but.. what's it stand for?
  • BarxBaronBarxBaron Join Date: 2003-02-02 Member: 13031Members
    edited August 2003
    Res For Kills

    R4K


    omg stupid board code! wheres meh' php when ya need it <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
  • DenialDenial Join Date: 2003-01-08 Member: 12033Members
    <b>R</b>es <b>for</b> <b>K</b>ills.

    Or <b>R</b>eward <b>for</b> <b>K</b>amping, in this case...
  • MajinMajin Join Date: 2003-05-29 Member: 16829Members, Constellation
    edited August 2003
    <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Impact'><b>THERE IS NO "N" IN TURRET, ITS NOT TURRENTS!!!</b></span></span></span>

    I am going to start a petition to have the word "turrent/s" swear filtered to turret/s.

    Ok its going to take Commander time to realize that spending 200 res on turrets is a waste and its smarter to spend that to give ppl upgrades and armor and everything else!

    3 Gorges and a few lerks could have smoked that Farm, while the Fades, Oni and xeno Skulks, took care of the rines!
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