It Has You.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">God, please let this be a joke.</div> I usually refrain from posting serious topics, but this is just too unreal not to mention it:

As most of you know, the 'Total Information Awareness' program didn't pass the US senate (IMAO further prove for the existence of a benevolent deity) - but it is replaced with a new project initiated by single states. Its name is a testimony to Mark Twains remark that "fiction has to stick to possibilities. Reality does not.": <a href='http://www.iir.com/matrix/' target='_blank'>The Matrix.</a>

Basically, the participating states create a databank in which they pour not only police files, official data, and similiar files about their citizens, but also as many comercially available informations as possible. In the end, every possible information about <i>everyone</i> (as opposed to 'criminal', or even 'suspect') within the US borders is supposed to be put in there. The proclaimed final aim is the absolutely transparent citizen, of course for the 'defense against terrorism', although application in other areas, such as conventional juristication, and in other ministries, is also possible and tested...

"As long as the Matrix exists, humanity will never be free."

Infinitum · August 2003

*waves at the Americans from Australia*

Zel · August 2003

i dont remember voting on that. oh yeah, they havent counted votes since 2000.

Bo_Selecta · August 2003

And this surprises you because..?

I mean, jeez, I KNOW I sound like an ignorant asshat whenever I say the US is getting more and more fascist but the American government kind of already proves my case by doing stuff like this. Or the patriot act.

AllUrHiveRblong2us · August 2003

Um.......

/me flees to Canada.

Gadzuko · August 2003

Anyone know some good apartments in England? Suddenly I find that I'm in the market.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

Note that this is <b>not</b> an initiative by the federal government, but by single states, although they recieve additional founding by the Department of Justice.

[edit]Oh, and:

*Waves at the Americans from Germany.*

That's the advantage of having a Green party in the government <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>[/edit]

Comprox · August 2003

*waves at the Americans from Canada*

PanzerOx · August 2003

*Runs across the canadian border.*

Why do they keep DOING things like this?!!!

EDIT: and the irony of the situation? It will turn out just like the movie.

Frikk · August 2003

*curses the fact that he's still a resident of the State of Michigan*
I feel really stupid for not hearing of this before. Excuse me while I go read up on what they are doing with these...

[edit: Even better, they do this all on "Secure Websites". From a state that can't even keep it's roads working I'm somewhat frightened.]

L3on · August 2003

*waves at america from connecticut* wait a second, darnit

why does connecticut take up the whole new-england area anyhow, i mean, WTH

Gadzuko · August 2003

****, I live in Pennsylvania. All right, where's my senator? Time to knock some heads.

PRIMER · August 2003

They really take the term United States to the next level. It isn't like I have anything to hide, but I don't want to be a peon to a massing empire. Who is the man behind the curtain here? Have all these states honestly started this because of their own initiative?

I wonder if the states' federal funds weren't withdrawn for important things like street maintance. That is what the government did to states that didn't have a drinking age of twenty-one imposed. Why do you think New Orleans had the worst paved roads of any populated place?

CplDavis · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Infinitum
*waves at the Americans from Australia*

Nemesis Zero
*Waves at the Americans from Germany.*

Comprox
*waves at the Americans from Canada*
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

*sigh

Ok guys lets not rub it in. **** <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

All I have to say is WTH. I live in New York.
The US govt gives additional funding to states that do this. Of course! Bush is a republican and so is NY state Gov. G. Pataki. (Who by they way half the state wants to see keel over and die)

The MaTRiX Has me, even though im not a criminal I can see where this is going.

PRIMER · August 2003

On a side note...
This is a .com website. Why are they not approved for a .gov domain? They have departments like Center for Task Force Training. It is like a militia against the freedom of living in the US.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

Some additional information: The 'MATRIX' software was created by Hank Ashners 'Seisint' corp and then given away to Florida for free.

Hank Ashner was officially credited by the Pentagon for delivering hints about the pilots of the 9/11 planes - they did not mention that he used to smuggle drugs in a large scale.

FlatlineUTD · August 2003

What you've REALLY gotta be scared of is The Patriot Act. I live in the US, so this stuff doesn't really surprise me anymore. :\

Anyway, under the Patriot Act, the govt has the ability to *basically* throw all your Constitutional rights out the window. There's a clause known as the "Sneak and Peek" that essentially allows a government agency, with or without probable cause, to enter your residence, search it, return everything to its previous state, and leave without you EVER knowing what took place while you were out.

Orwellian government is just getting closer and closer to reality.

dr_d · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Flatline[UTD] @ Aug 6 2003, 01:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> What you've REALLY gotta be scared of is The Patriot Act. I live in the US, so this stuff doesn't really surprise me anymore. :\

Anyway, under the Patriot Act, the govt has the ability to *basically* throw all your Constitutional rights out the window. There's a clause known as the "Sneak and Peek" that essentially allows a government agency, with or without probable cause, to enter your residence, search it, return everything to its previous state, and leave without you EVER knowing what took place while you were out.

Orwellian government is just getting closer and closer to reality.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well last time I checked if a goverment official is on your property without a warrant or your permision they are trespassing, so if they decide to "sneak and peak" and you happen to catch them you have every right to "lock and load" and forecable remove them from your residence with whichever legally registered home defence weapon you might own.

Gadzuko · August 2003

That's the point of his post. You DON'T have that right anymore, they have taken it from you with this law.

TychoCelchuuu · August 2003

*waves at Americans from Seattl... crap*

Jolly old Germany has always seemed like a nice place to live. Or Japan.

dr_d · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gadzuko @ Aug 6 2003, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> That's the point of his post. You DON'T have that right anymore, they have taken it from you with this law. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Since last time I checked this clause hasn't been made an ammendment to the Constitution they haven't taken any rights away from me, but if they have the balls to try to make it an ammendment then I'll worry.

And to the obnoxious people who think they live in a country free of privacy violations the only difference is here we hear about it.

moultano · August 2003

I may not be reading this right, but it seems like all this is doing is replacing research done by police with research done by computers (which are much more efficient at it). I don't believe there is any law, (or any accepted human right for that matter) that prevents someone from acquiring all the public information that they possibly can and putting it in a database. It is <b>public</b> information after all. Its just getting rid of inefficiencies in the law enforcement system.

I'm a little curious if the Freedom of Information Act applies to this. The one thing I would like to be able to do is to see exactly what they have in my file, (which I believe the freedom of information act provides for with the FBI and CIA).

The patriot act is a whole other issue.
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> Patriot act.
But as I understand it now, I don't have any problem with this.

Quaunaut · August 2003

Not to get technical here, but...

Its all been predicted in the Bible...

Dirty_Harry_Potter · August 2003

*waves at america from Denmark, hoping they will once destroy themselves...*

the matrix is good as long as it is like in Shadowrun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>, but this sounds strange, but i stopped after reading: Multistate Anti-TeRrorism Information eXchange...

pardzh · August 2003

Meh.

Just like all these other things people get their panties up in a hitch about, it probably won't have much affect on my daily life. In addition to that, I'm betting that it will probably just flop and fade out over time like most "revolutionary" ideas on counter-terrorism and lawkeeping our terrific government has tried to put into being.

dr_d · August 2003

To delve deeper into the subject I'd just like to point out that once put into perspective the idea of a Patriot Act isn't as fascist as many make it out to be. The whole point of this if you remember is to prevent people from using loopholes in our online security laws to plan terrorist acts, if you aren't a terrorist planning terrorist acts in theory it shouldn't adversly affect you. Also if we remember it is a temporary measure, so as soon as we feel it isn't serving its purpose or its purpose has been served we can vote it down. I am personally opposed to this because I feel that there isn't that much information to be gained strictly from what this law allows access to, BUT I do agree with it out there it gives people who formerly used security loopholes to communicate less freedom to do so just becuase of the mere fact that they know they can be caught.

btw the above is strictly about the Patriot Act, I know nothing about this MATRIX thing, sounds like a cheap ploy for funding to me.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Aug 6 2003, 06:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I may not be reading this right, but it seems like all this is doing is replacing research done by police with research done by computers (which are much more efficient at it). I don't believe there is any law, (or any accepted human right for that matter) that prevents someone from acquiring all the public information that they possibly can and putting it in a database. It is <b>public</b> information after all. Its just getting rid of inefficiencies in the law enforcement system. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
Well, there's a lot of reasons against this, beginning with your privacy rights. We are <i>not</i> talking about public information here. Police files are bound to strict terms of use, as is any other kind of official file about a person. Even the swapping of informations between different departments may only happen under certain guidelines.
Matrix takes these informations, throws them in one pot, and <i>adds</i> booklists, credit card bills, adware informations, commercial cookies, and so on and so on. <i>None</i> of these sources of information are public, some of them are barely legal.

--

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Since last time I checked this clause hasn't been made an ammendment to the Constitution they haven't taken any rights away from me, but if they have the balls to try to make it an ammendment then I'll worry.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Yea, well, the Patriot Act effectively allows the government (not prosecutors, the government, in the form of its secret and military agencies) to effectively abolish constitutional rights for single individuals - take for example the set of rights during a trial, many of which are grounded in the constitution: The military trials the Patriot Act allows do not observe any of them, down to the right for a lawyer.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The whole point of this if you remember is to prevent people from using loopholes in our online security laws to plan terrorist acts</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The Patriot Act is by far not limited to online crimes, it is being applied to any kind of terroristic planning (a tem not sufficiently juristically defined). It allows for a by <i>far</i> bigger amount of measures than you assume in this post; basically, its propagated purpose was to give the government (again, <i>the government</i>) the abilities to search, find, and prosecute any kind of terroristic movement aimed loosely against the United States or its goals as swift as possible. Even this very propagandistic description assigns a by far bigger range of powers than yours.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And to the obnoxious people who think they live in a country free of privacy violations the only difference is here we hear about it. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Apart from the borderline-flame in there, I am aware that I'm being watched without being told about it - it's called Echelon, which brings us back to, well, the US <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

BigMadSteve · August 2003

*Waves at Americans from Scotland*

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Sirus · August 2003

Let's see how this turns out. I think this is too early in time to make any judgements. I almost guarantee you that we're missing a vital piece of information that puts this completely out of context and perspective.

I could be wrong though, only time will tell.

Dubbilex · August 2003

Yep. I suppose it's time to make the move. I'll settle down in a nice southern ranch, find me a Mexican honey and live in wonderful squalor for the rest of my existence.

That can't track meh if they don't know I exist!

But.....this scares me. It honestly does. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

acer_r · August 2003

im movin to gemany when i can then...

It Has You.

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