Firewater's Scoreboard Solution--
KEm1KaL1
Lerky Lerky Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13797Members
Lerky Lerky Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13797Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Sorry, I HAD to post this...</div> I know you guys locked beta discussion from us aspiring PTs for a reason, but there was just something that I had to add to his post, check here: <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=30&t=32788' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...ST&f=30&t=32788</a> --------- to see his original post and some of the replies.
I believe that not showing scores can change the way recruiting is done, more on a teamplay basis than frag basis. As I had to tell FireWater many times on irc it does not <b>force</b> you to recruit on teamplay, check the upper right corner if you are a frag guy, but it can indirectly change the way people make decisions. Instead of "Wow, that guy took down 6 marines in a row" <--- and still lose the match, We could be seeing "Hey, this guy was 12-11, but was there when we needed him in key areas/times.
As lagger pointed out, you could recruit on skill and train in teamplay, but this could work two ways... if we wanted it to... I'm not saying skill isn't important. It definitely is, but don't flinch at the sound of changes. I respect the team's decisions.
Now I am not <i>officially</i> a veteran, but I am in pugs/scrims alot now and feel that I am fairly skilled and know the game pretty well. Just pointing out that this is not all bad.
Just my opinion, I may not have played 1.1 but I have played all other versions and my opinion can still matter (unless this thread is locked).
Anyways, reply constructively here and flame me in irc if you must, I'm in #naturalselection 24/7. Or look me up in-game.
I believe that not showing scores can change the way recruiting is done, more on a teamplay basis than frag basis. As I had to tell FireWater many times on irc it does not <b>force</b> you to recruit on teamplay, check the upper right corner if you are a frag guy, but it can indirectly change the way people make decisions. Instead of "Wow, that guy took down 6 marines in a row" <--- and still lose the match, We could be seeing "Hey, this guy was 12-11, but was there when we needed him in key areas/times.
As lagger pointed out, you could recruit on skill and train in teamplay, but this could work two ways... if we wanted it to... I'm not saying skill isn't important. It definitely is, but don't flinch at the sound of changes. I respect the team's decisions.
Now I am not <i>officially</i> a veteran, but I am in pugs/scrims alot now and feel that I am fairly skilled and know the game pretty well. Just pointing out that this is not all bad.
Just my opinion, I may not have played 1.1 but I have played all other versions and my opinion can still matter (unless this thread is locked).
Anyways, reply constructively here and flame me in irc if you must, I'm in #naturalselection 24/7. Or look me up in-game.
Comments
when i play Deathmatch i do check the scoreboard it is extremely important
when i played TFC is would check the scoreboard at the end but i usually could point to where i would show up on it....cause i knew that i....
a) played great
b) played ok
c) sucked
when i played outdoor sports like soccer i played defence so i did not have a score
in fact a very small amount did
I still would know when i sucked (and most of the team would too) :-)
so i do not understand this i HAVE to have a scoreboard thing.
do you not know when you suck?
do your teammates not know....I bet they do ;-)
PS: The game must be looking good if people are complaining about the scoreboard
it's like playing basketball and the ball is a little flat
waiting for 1.1 patiently...
Skill is everything.
I am supreme.
Submit to it and worship me.
Skill is everything.
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Nuff said.
Feels... Strange...
Feels... Strange... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I bet it does <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Forget the scoreboard and play!
Feels... Strange... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
for your.. er strangeness <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
The scoreboard is to know who's alive, if the opponents are respawning (remove?) and to see what evolutions your teammates have.
1. Can the guy frag? If he meets our standards on the fps level we'd check if we can get along with him decently at least.
Teamwork is something that is easy to "practice", and something most people to anyway. In NS, and most other fps-games you only need one or two players who can "see the game", plan strategies and direct the players and those are usually the ones forming the clan in the first place. The rest of the team is there to kill the enemy on command while staying alive. Sorry to burst your bubble, but fragging is the end all of this game, after all your objective is to get rid of all opponents.
Thus the best solution to the scoreboard problem would be to show frags for both teams, and let the strategists show their skills over voice comm...
When playing alien, I like to monitor the scoreboard, but it certainly doesn't stop me from using xenocide when we get 3 hives. I also like to go gorge after the 2nd hive is up (when everyone else is going fade and racking up the kills) and run around securing resource nodes and blocking off choke points. Just because some people enjoy the scores, it doesn't mean that they are only playing for the "frags".
Some people keep pointing out that this is a team game and the only thing that matters is who wins the game, not how many frags everyone has. While this is true, I think you need to remember that these "teams" are made up of individual people.
People like to see their skill acknowledged. Airforce pilots mark off their kills on the sides of their planes. Some college football teams put stickers on their helmets to acknowledge big plays. Rewarding individual skill isn't necessarily harmful to the team. In fps games, the frag count just seems to be the accepted reward.
Why not just make it into a server-side variable?
sv_scoreboard = "0" no scores, "1" alien only, "2" marine only, "3" both
Choice is always a good thing.
I never said that skill wasn't important but I was pointing out that raw kills are not everything.
Also, in regards to recruiting for clans. We dont just watch their score on the scoreboard, if we do choose to start recruiting someone we invite them to join in 1-3 scrims with our clan. We ask them to record demo's which we later watch and decide if he should join. It also allows our comm to see how he interacts with the team and if he is repairable or already has good team skills to join. If he just runs off in the scrim you can bet your bottom dollar he wont make it in the clan.
Also note, flayra didnt pick us to be in the veteran group because we are more skilled then every pubber out there. He picked us because we are in clans that already have developed a level of teamwork that can be brought to v1.1 that pubbers cannot bring until they play together for awhile. This allows for creative strategys to be tested in v1.1 and as a result *hopefully* we dont end up with another jp/hmg rush.
"Is the guy a tosser?" (The UK people can snigger now, the rest of you can look blank)
If he's not, coolio. 52% of the recruitment process over. If you don't have a clan that <b>all get along</b>, you clan <i>will</i> fail. Understand this now. If you recruit joe_spammz0r because he's teh win, it won't work out.
The other 29% + 19% are teamplay & skill, respectively (or the other way around, depends how your clan plays) and between them should guarantee whether someone should be in, but the the first point gets the casting vote, always.
Why? Example: Players kills 3 skulks in a row and claims to be the best player all over the world because he leads the table with 30:0. Meanwhile the aliens eat the marine spawn and laugh at the stupid player who sits alone in a corner and camps for some skulks (maybe he will kill one or two skulks but the game is over because he did not care about the team but only about himself).
<b>Team games</b> do not need score boards. I play a TFC clanwar and do not even check the score board until the game is over and I want to see how many caps both teams had.
Apart from this the scores do not tell anything about the player. Oh, well, they do. It is very likely that a player with 30:0 claiming to be the Uber-player is a DM player who is not able to play in a team otherwise he would not claim to be that good because he knows when three marines shoot at one skulk only one can kill him. Means two of three players will not get Uber-stats but they did their job and without them the godlike super player won't even have 10 kills.
Another example for those who know TFC (well, don't think those who complain about removing the score board play a team game like TFC... <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->). Map shutdown2 plank defense soldier. Most times I have around 30 kills whilst the ramp soldier has 90 kills. Does this mean I am a bad soldier? *lol* No! I can count those enemies that are able to touch my plank with my fingers and I damage nearly every enemy that comes to the ramp. Every good team with decent skill will always win against a bad team full of ego DM players.
Yes, i agree that team play is required to win a game and that total ramboing across the entire team will not win the game. But teamplay is shown when the comm's strategy is realized and fps skill is shown through the scoreboard. Why take away the ability to see someones fps skill? If this random dm player would camp the entire game in a corner to rack up 30 kills how would taking away the scoreboard change his actions? It seems that taking away the scoreboard will only result in the loss of comparing ones fps skill to others.
Why? Example: Players kills 3 skulks in a row and claims to be the best player all over the world because he leads the table with 30:0. Meanwhile the aliens eat the marine spawn and laugh at the stupid player who sits alone in a corner and camps for some skulks (maybe he will kill one or two skulks but the game is over because he did not care about the team but only about himself). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
An idiot is an idiot. Removing the scores isn't going to change that fact.
Although I am sure that some people do go around bragging about their frag count, I can't say that I remember the last time I encountered such a person. If this is the main reason they are removing the scoreboard, then it seem they are attempting to curtail the actions of a very small minority of idiots out there.
This message brought to you by the 41.5% (so far) of mighty voices.
"Is the guy a tosser?" (The UK people can snigger now, the rest of you can look blank)
If he's not, coolio. 52% of the recruitment process over. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dunno - with most clans I've encountered it seems that their recruitment process went: "Is this guy a total tosspot? He is? OK - recruit him and we can get to calling ourselves thirteen thirty-seven h4x0rz and calling anyone we don't like 'n00bs'". Just my experience, ya dig.
Recruiter: So... You wanna join?
Mac: Yeah! this caln is the shiznit!
Recruiter: Hrm.. you any good?
Mac: I'm ok... I can shoot ya know?
Recruiter:OK.. let's hop on a server.....
<5 minutes latter>
Recruiter:"Eh... you're ok.. we'll train you up.... you're in."
Mac: w00t!!! Joor are "elite"!!!
*edit* kinda reminds me of laser tag */edit*
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I am an active clanner, and to me (no offence to you all!) but pubs are worthless to me. I go into pubs to kill, and only to kill. I honestly don't care about winning, I just want to improve my skills. Showing kills would help to know if you are improving/getting worse/sucky day ect ect.
It would give Public games a purpose.
It would give Public games a purpose. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
/me hands skillzilla a flame shield.
I know there are so cool pubbers out there though <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
(I had a really long post written, but then decided to just keep it short and simple)
Once first-person spectating is put in, recruiters will have no problem determining the skill of potential recruits... That, plus paying attention to the kills, should be enough information...
A commander will, after a bit, get an idea of which teammates are dependable... Since the names will always be displayed (Right?) in 1.1, the comm will know which marines are following orders without having to take a close look at each.
As of 1.1, the aliens will get messages when their gorges plop down chambers, so they'll know what the all-important builders are doing... Same goes for marines and their commander...
With these new features, I don't think the frag/death counts will really be necessary anymore, nor will a more detailed scoring system...
Oh, and you know, Shockwave, 42.3% of statistics are made up on the spot...