The problem isn't that the marines went in and killed the skulks as they spawned, it's that all they did was kill skulks. If you put every other shotgun blast into the hive I could see this. The spawn camping that is being discussed is sitting there killing aliens without trying to end the game. It's like obliterating the marine base and having skulks sit on the sides of infantry portals after all the marines are dead and killing them. The game should really be over when it gets to this point, but some people refuse to put it to an end. Instead they let the other team spawn over and over directly into death.
People seem to be arguing that this is part of the game. Well, it is possible to do it. It's extremely unsportsmanlike though. If they're not willing to end it hopefully the losing team will concede the game by f4ing. There's nothing wrong with conceding a game you lost...
yay. Alien spawncamping is fun. Dont kill the ip, bite to death what is coming out of it. Once killed 6 marines in a row (one of them 3 times) ... thanks regen.
It's a bit nasty but aliens can do the same if marine base defense is down or nonexistent. The problem is that (at least on pubs) people are not used to marines attacking the home hive - this means they are not prepared. You might invest in an OC or two :-/ But there in one imbalance - marines are given 100 res for free at the very start so they can invest in defense. But aliens can't afford this for quite long time ---> another alien weakness in the early phase.
What I sometimes try to do if I have a skilled buddy on the marine team is spawn camp just long enough for them to knife down the res tower, which really hurts the aliens in the early game.
I drag one of my clan m8s with me and spawn camp for AGES.
The reason?
Hmmmmm, lets see, when you spawn camp and manage to kill all the aliens, they are NOT pressuring you, also they are not building or doing anyhting else.
Essentially it delays the aliens for a good few minutes, enough to get out a few rts or save res and get upgrades, etc ie to move your plan along without interuptions.
Yes, people call me lame, yes they say I am doing it for kills, I couldnt give a crap about kills, all I do is kill the aliens so they cant kill any of my team mates or the comms buildings.
I ask you why is delaying a team lame?
So it is no fun, well tough **** I dont play for fun, I play to practice and WIN, if I wanna play for fun I'll play misslecommand or pillbox or siege, etc.
Edit : Yay
2nd Edit : Why dont I shoot the hive? Cos it is pointless and wastes ammo, if I shoot the hive, im gonna get caught off guard and killed. So I just kill the aliens spawning, IF I am killing them for like 3 mins or something, ill ask the comm to send the team over and shoot the hive, but if not, then I'll just sit there killing aliens.
Nay, I've seen games extended for up to half an hour because of this because the rines wanted to up their kill count. If your going to finish the hive, fine, the odd annoyance/distraction, great, but when the entire alien team is sitting in respawn and the rines are spawn camping, capping the RT and building an armory in the one remaining hive, one must begin to wonder...
What would you propose doing to prevent spawn camping? I can't think of a darn thing that would work. Or should work.
Legitimate tactic. Yay.
And I'm a dedicated alien player (I suck so bad at marines... can't aim worth anything. Although I do follow orders, it doesn't matter much when I can't kill a skulk...)
If I let the marines in to spawn camp, it's my fault. And most hives have spawn points spread out enough that I should still have something of a chance to find the spawn camper and kill him. If I'm skilled and lucky.
Hmmm it sucks to be spawn camped... but 1 hive aliens don't seem to have any way out of it except for killing the spawn campers while the rines, if they have a guy outside the base, have another way out (drop an inf portal somewhere else).
Errr i think the thing that pisses me off is when people don't kill the bloody hive and just sit there shooting the aliens. Also most of the time, when aliens spawn camp, they're in the process of killing the inf portal, not just killing rines for fun (though I won't deny that there are people who do that).
HA HA HA moo man doesnt play for fun. I guess he thinks he has a job playing ns and he needs to get real great at sneaking into a hive and spawn camping for ages until the aliens F4. It requires talent to sit in one spot and kill something with no ranged attack other than a parasite that does 4 damage, from a position that even a noob could kill all spawning aliens from. If you have to practice at spawn camping dude I feel for you and your clan.
I really dislike this tastic even if it's labeled "valid". I view people who choose to do it as ****. Just because it's possible to do it doesn't really mean you should. It's extremely lame even if it takes skill to do it. Kind of like being infinity combo'ed in Marvel Vs. Capcom2. Takes skill but pretty gimp since it leaves you totally helpless with usually no way out. This is multiplied worse in NS with medpack spam from the comm.
Hopefully, they'll be a fix for it in 1.1 like that double spawning idea for aliens at least or the res fix so aliens can put up an O tower or two early in the game.
And for people who compare NS to actual war that's just silly. This is a GAME. A game has rules & etiquette. NS is NOTHING like actual war.
Thank you Syringed. I dont know about the rest of you but I DO play NS for fun. Not to practice and win?! I mean to me a game implies fun whether you win or lose. Get a few laughs while dodging bullets, teeth, and acid rockets. Cant think of a better time <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><b>Syringed</b> Apr 16 2003, 11:57 PM</span> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for people who compare NS to actual war that's just silly. This is a GAME. A game has rules & etiquette. NS is NOTHING like actual war.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmmm. Guns, Kills, Commander, Marines, Wounds, Holding Postions, Clan Matches (To the winner goes the spoils).
<i>No, its not like war. You're right. I can't believe I suggested NS had any parallels with war. My bad.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Apr 16 2003, 02:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Apr 16 2003, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is war, its your life or theirs. No more cowardly complaining about "unfair" tactics, plz. Just about every person on this board probably ignorantly supports the war in Iraq, but you complain about "unfair" tactics in NS? Thats so ridiculous. Just like the US, those marines were playing to win. Nobody is playing "fair."
Btw, aliens do have a way to spawn more than one at a time: Multiple hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, this is a game, not a war. You are obligated to make compromises so everyone has an enjoyable time. I'm all for a simple little rush through a Hive to take out a Gorge, some Skulks, some DCs what-have-you. But 2 moderately skilled individuals just sitting around taking aliens out before they can get their bearings is pretty rude and unfun. Kharaa players are probably the only ones who will attack a Marine spawn early on just to slow them down. Take out a res, some structures and men and then go. I rarely, if ever, see a Marine team play with any kind of decency like that.
Early Marine rushes tear Skulks apart in NSs current state so it is 'unfair' when they 'camp' at a hive just picking off Skulks.
In anycase, it'll be interesting to see how 1.1 changes things like this. I'm even more anxious now. :o
As for your little Iraq tangent, I wont even entertain that with a proper rebuttle. What a stupid comparison.
not good , not fun , nothing <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--cri.tical+Apr 17 2003, 12:56 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (cri.tical @ Apr 17 2003, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><b>Syringed</b> Apr 16 2003, 11:57 PM</span> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for people who compare NS to actual war that's just silly. This is a GAME. A game has rules & etiquette. NS is NOTHING like actual war.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmmm. Guns, Kills, Commander, Marines, Wounds, Holding Postions, Clan Matches (To the winner goes the spoils).
<i>No, its not like war. You're right. I can't believe I suggested NS had any parallels with war. My bad.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I didn't mean it like that Cri. Real war is far different from playing a video game. NS only imitates a virtual aspect of war. Real war would be more like how Iraq is right now. I'm pretty damn sure if a real actual marine played Natural-Selection & if someone asked him how close this was to real war he'd scoff & laugh. In otherwords, NS is fun being on a real battlefield isn't. It's silly compare a video game which has war-like elements & apply them to something serious as war itself. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
I feel that it is the most extreme form of the imbalances that exist in NS 1.04; that is, the marines' better respawn times due to almost always having two IP's when the aliens have only a single hive, which makes them more resistant to skulk rushes, and the marines' clear superiority over skulks without carapace.
However, it is a part of the game (kill the hive), so I say yay, unlike in DoD, where it's just plain lame <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would like to see hives able to spawn two skulks at a time if a lot are dead (say, over 2/3), but this might not be necessary given the changes in 1.1
Spawncamping is only bad when it is not used as a strategy. There are two ways I know of where spawn camping is fine.
1) When you're killing the hive. Why wouldn't you kill skulks as they drop?
2) When killing them to keep them out of your team's hair. It's like choosing a choke point and pitching tent, 'cept it's at the hive.
The only time when spawn camping is bad is when the marine have won, the kharaa are all dead and the marines are refusing to kill the hive when they can. That's bad.
ChurchMeatshield grunt-fodder // Has pre-ordered NS2Join Date: 2002-12-31Member: 11646Members, Constellation
So, the aliens should not be rush the marines and kill all the marines as they spawn? Wow, takes a LOT of skill to stand next to an IP, and bite anything that appears! If you need to practice that, then I feel sorry for you too.
Remember, spawn portal=easily taken out with one energy bar. Hive=hard to take out with lmgs. Marine do NOT have infinite ammo. Marines need to reload.
All this together means the mariens will conserve ammo and shoot the aliens only until backup arrives. They might also take out your RT.
Guys.. its valid of they have an intention to kill your hive/kill your rsr.... now.. if your going to reply to this and say "we just want to delay them and take no chances by killin their hive" I HAVE COME TO HELP YOU!!!! After you kill a skulk when it spawns unload the rest of your clip in the hive/dc's and then reload... all this can be done before the next skulk which reduces all chances of "**** up"
I think it's lame when someone spawn camps and the marines go for a 2-hive lockdown. WHY ?? Just come kill us all ready.
Subjecting an alien team to X minutes of boredom until some lucky skulk manages to kill the marine camping <b>and</b> then dragging out the game because the 2-hive lockdown is just taking the michael.
All in all, it's just another example of early game marine superiorty. Aliens can't afford early OCs to protect the hives and anyone with 1/2 decent aim can own spawning skulks. If multiple gorges are viable early on in 1.1 then one capping RTs and one setting up defences at the hive would solve this. The aliens can't afford this ATM though.
However uncarapaced skulks are so ridiculously weak it's almost impossible to brake out of (can't even run at the start) and I hope this is fixed next version.
It's a little bit like TFC. I maintain that respawn camping in TFC, while a cheap tactic, is not really a seriously lame (ie, we should ban people from doing it) tactic.
But that's beside the point.
Speaking as primarily a kharaa player, I don't think it's that lame to have marines spawn camping. If you start moving as soon as you spawn, and stay close to the hive you can survive. They boosted the hive healing to deal with this. As for kharaa spawn camping the marines, if they've bottled up the entire team and are not killing the portals, it's incredibly lame. Marines have *NO* chance if a kharaa is camping the portals; the kharaa have some chance if marines are camping.
I'll say the same thing I said about TFC: by all means, use lame tactics. Spawn camp, build sentries just outside my base, chase, turtle, DM. Be warned that if you do, I will make a point of fragging the stupid out of you every chance I get.
Comments
People seem to be arguing that this is part of the game. Well, it is possible to do it. It's extremely unsportsmanlike though. If they're not willing to end it hopefully the losing team will concede the game by f4ing. There's nothing wrong with conceding a game you lost...
Alien spawncamping is fun.
Dont kill the ip, bite to death what is coming out of it.
Once killed 6 marines in a row (one of them 3 times) ... thanks regen.
I dont kill the hive, or even shoot at it.
I drag one of my clan m8s with me and spawn camp for AGES.
The reason?
Hmmmmm, lets see, when you spawn camp and manage to kill all the aliens, they are NOT pressuring you, also they are not building or doing anyhting else.
Essentially it delays the aliens for a good few minutes, enough to get out a few rts or save res and get upgrades, etc ie to move your plan along without interuptions.
Yes, people call me lame, yes they say I am doing it for kills, I couldnt give a crap about kills, all I do is kill the aliens so they cant kill any of my team mates or the comms buildings.
I ask you why is delaying a team lame?
So it is no fun, well tough **** I dont play for fun, I play to practice and WIN, if I wanna play for fun I'll play misslecommand or pillbox or siege, etc.
Edit : Yay
2nd Edit : Why dont I shoot the hive? Cos it is pointless and wastes ammo, if I shoot the hive, im gonna get caught off guard and killed. So I just kill the aliens spawning, IF I am killing them for like 3 mins or something, ill ask the comm to send the team over and shoot the hive, but if not, then I'll just sit there killing aliens.
If your marine team happens to be competent though you can kill the hive.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if they do something for v1.1 to prevent it.
Legitimate tactic. Yay.
And I'm a dedicated alien player (I suck so bad at marines... can't aim worth anything. Although I do follow orders, it doesn't matter much when I can't kill a skulk...)
If I let the marines in to spawn camp, it's my fault. And most hives have spawn points spread out enough that I should still have something of a chance to find the spawn camper and kill him. If I'm skilled and lucky.
Errr i think the thing that pisses me off is when people don't kill the bloody hive and just sit there shooting the aliens. Also most of the time, when aliens spawn camp, they're in the process of killing the inf portal, not just killing rines for fun (though I won't deny that there are people who do that).
I really dislike this tastic even if it's labeled "valid". I view people who choose to do it as ****. Just because it's possible to do it doesn't really mean you should. It's extremely lame even if it takes skill to do it. Kind of like being infinity combo'ed in Marvel Vs. Capcom2. Takes skill but pretty gimp since it leaves you totally helpless with usually no way out. This is multiplied worse in NS with medpack spam from the comm.
Hopefully, they'll be a fix for it in 1.1 like that double spawning idea for aliens at least or the res fix so aliens can put up an O tower or two early in the game.
And for people who compare NS to actual war that's just silly. This is a GAME. A game has rules & etiquette. NS is NOTHING like actual war.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for people who compare NS to actual war that's just silly. This is a GAME. A game has rules & etiquette. NS is NOTHING like actual war.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm.
Guns, Kills, Commander, Marines, Wounds, Holding Postions, Clan Matches (To the winner goes the spoils).
<i>No, its not like war. You're right. I can't believe I suggested NS had any parallels with war. My bad.</i>
Just about every person on this board probably ignorantly supports the war in Iraq, but you complain about "unfair" tactics in NS? Thats so ridiculous.
Just like the US, those marines were playing to win. Nobody is playing "fair."
Btw, aliens do have a way to spawn more than one at a time: Multiple hives. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, this is a game, not a war. You are obligated to make compromises so everyone has an enjoyable time. I'm all for a simple little rush through a Hive to take out a Gorge, some Skulks, some DCs what-have-you. But 2 moderately skilled individuals just sitting around taking aliens out before they can get their bearings is pretty rude and unfun. Kharaa players are probably the only ones who will attack a Marine spawn early on just to slow them down. Take out a res, some structures and men and then go. I rarely, if ever, see a Marine team play with any kind of decency like that.
Early Marine rushes tear Skulks apart in NSs current state so it is 'unfair' when they 'camp' at a hive just picking off Skulks.
In anycase, it'll be interesting to see how 1.1 changes things like this. I'm even more anxious now. :o
As for your little Iraq tangent, I wont even entertain that with a proper rebuttle. What a stupid comparison.
not good , not fun , nothing <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And for people who compare NS to actual war that's just silly. This is a GAME. A game has rules & etiquette. NS is NOTHING like actual war.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmmm.
Guns, Kills, Commander, Marines, Wounds, Holding Postions, Clan Matches (To the winner goes the spoils).
<i>No, its not like war. You're right. I can't believe I suggested NS had any parallels with war. My bad.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I didn't mean it like that Cri. Real war is far different from playing a video game. NS only imitates a virtual aspect of war. Real war would be more like how Iraq is right now. I'm pretty damn sure if a real actual marine played Natural-Selection & if someone asked him how close this was to real war he'd scoff & laugh. In otherwords, NS is fun being on a real battlefield isn't. It's silly compare a video game which has war-like elements & apply them to something serious as war itself. <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, it is a part of the game (kill the hive), so I say yay, unlike in DoD, where it's just plain lame <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I would like to see hives able to spawn two skulks at a time if a lot are dead (say, over 2/3), but this might not be necessary given the changes in 1.1
1) When you're killing the hive. Why wouldn't you kill skulks as they drop?
2) When killing them to keep them out of your team's hair. It's like choosing a choke point and pitching tent, 'cept it's at the hive.
The only time when spawn camping is bad is when the marine have won, the kharaa are all dead and the marines are refusing to kill the hive when they can. That's bad.
Remember, spawn portal=easily taken out with one energy bar.
Hive=hard to take out with lmgs.
Marine do NOT have infinite ammo.
Marines need to reload.
All this together means the mariens will conserve ammo and shoot the aliens only until backup arrives. They might also take out your RT.
Learn to DEAL with it by ambushing.
I think it's lame when someone spawn camps and the marines go for a 2-hive lockdown. WHY ?? Just come kill us all ready.
Subjecting an alien team to X minutes of boredom until some lucky skulk manages to kill the marine camping <b>and</b> then dragging out the game because the 2-hive lockdown is just taking the michael.
All in all, it's just another example of early game marine superiorty. Aliens can't afford early OCs to protect the hives and anyone with 1/2 decent aim can own spawning skulks. If multiple gorges are viable early on in 1.1 then one capping RTs and one setting up defences at the hive would solve this. The aliens can't afford this ATM though.
However uncarapaced skulks are so ridiculously weak it's almost impossible to brake out of (can't even run at the start) and I hope this is fixed next version.
But that's beside the point.
Speaking as primarily a kharaa player, I don't think it's that lame to have marines spawn camping. If you start moving as soon as you spawn, and stay close to the hive you can survive. They boosted the hive healing to deal with this. As for kharaa spawn camping the marines, if they've bottled up the entire team and are not killing the portals, it's incredibly lame. Marines have *NO* chance if a kharaa is camping the portals; the kharaa have some chance if marines are camping.
I'll say the same thing I said about TFC: by all means, use lame tactics. Spawn camp, build sentries just outside my base, chase, turtle, DM. Be warned that if you do, I will make a point of fragging the stupid out of you every chance I get.
Marines killing spawning skulks while blasting the hive: Ok
Aliens killing spawning marines for fun/score: Bad
Aliens killing spawning marines while chomping the IP: Ok