The Future Of Ns

ambush · March 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">where do you think it is going.</div> Well you all have played ns, and no doubt it is a great mod, but once you play it more and more you think about where it is going. I know everyone will be like, "omgz ns is gonna last forever!" but that might not be the case. After playing ns since its release, and running a few ns servers, these are my opinions. First off I dont think ns is going to last as long as everyone wants it to because of the hl engine limitations. I'm sure everyone has played those games where is just laggs like a ****, and I'm sure most of you know why - because of the number of entites being produced and taken away. The half-life wasnt ment for that, and its not just the marine and alien buildings, its the maps themselfs. The prue brilliance of those maps are awsome, but the beauty comes with a price - high entity count. The best maps are the ones that lag the most, hera and bast. If the game would of been coded in a different engine - say the unreal or quake 3, there wouldnt be this problem with the game. Annother reason for not choosing the hl engine would be the wide array of hacks avalible, and it makes it worse that ns currently doesnt support vac makes it like a hackers dream. Go look on any hacks site, you'll see hl hacks are in the most numbers. Which brings me into another reason - hacks will discourage new players from playing this great game. Just take for example the alien side - the skulks main tactic is stealth. One skulk is sittin in a corner of a dark ceiling, with just its head peaking out to parasite. All of a sudden, and marine hacker comes around with whitewalls - and BAM, two pistol shots right into its face. The newbie is like WTHz hackz, and some ""elite"" player says there is no hacks in ns and to SUYF cs player newb. Wallhacks and graphic hacks totally will ruin this game - since its based opon a dark enviorment. Well im getting tired or typing so just voice back in on this.

Educated posts please - and im not flaming ns, i love this game but im just voicing my opinion. Cheers

[EDIT] I know that vac will be included in 1.1, but once everyone starts playing it, first impressions are the ones that count[/EDIT]

Nemesis_Zero · March 2003

I can see where you're coming from, and also agree that NS, at least its current incarnation, won't last forever.

The two issues you touched however, are more child illnesses than anything else:

The high entity counts and their result are being looked into. You may bet that the future NS maps will be more efficient in this respect because they're being created with the issue in mind - not to mention future code optimizations.

VAC will be included in 1.1. This won't remedy all cheating issues - nothing will - but I believe it and a closely knit community, as I see it forming, will help immensely.

ambush · March 2003

^ check my edit i forgot to put that in <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

LaserApa · March 2003

I must say i havnt encountered any serious lag since the first few days of release. I mostly play on 16 or 18 player server though, but im happy with that.

As for cheats, i cant say ive had too many suspicions about hackers either.. Maby i just play the right servers <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

A few crooked admins here and there but you cant blame NS for that?

I do look forward to oodles of gameplay changes to keep things interesting though. Lot of games lately suffer from early retirement syndrome, which really suck.

Umbraed_Monkey · March 2003

Hehe, i think you chose a bad example...the marine probably knew you (?) were there from motion tracking, a controversial upgrade for the marines.

ambush · March 2003

what about early in the game

Lumberjack_Wannabe · March 2003

What if the player was moving? Marines have ears too.

Supernorn · March 2003

I think NS is heading in the right direction, as long as we can prevent those *five minute* games.
bring on 1.1 is all i can say <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

ambush · March 2003

what if he wasnt moving

Butt_monkey_salad · March 2003

NS certainly has the potential to last longer than CS, I would HOPE!!!! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'>

Lumberjack_Wannabe · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>what if he wasnt moving</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

The world will never know...

masterswordman · March 2003

There is no doubt NS will be moving to a different engine, just not anytime soon, NS is okay on the current HL engine, and if you want to go ahead and make your own engine, and then sell the game in store, I'd be willing to dish out $60 on it.

airyK · March 2003

NS is goin gto hollywood!!!!!!!!! lol but really it would be really sweet if they made a real cg movie of ns...a full movie perhaps w/a good story line ........also if someday ns is moved on to a new updated gfx engine and turned comerical...i would easily pay 60 dollars for it too!

Savant · March 2003

Having played since it was released, I've been impressed at the product that has been delivered.

The future of NS? Frankly I think that really depends on the development team. We know they all have jobs and lives, and as such they don't have the time or resources to put into the mod that a dedicated company would have.

As such, I think the future of NS will depend a lot on how the development goes. Lately I've been seeing a LOT of similarity between NS and the Firearms mod.

Both mods were unique and very well done.
Both mods had a LARGE fan base after their initial release.
Both mods won a 'mod of the year' honour
Both mods have had a lot of balance issues

In the end, Firearms basically 'died' because of balance issues were allowed to drag on continually, and the release of new versions to fix known issues were few and far between.

I can't help but see the SAME thing happening with NS. Balance issues have arisen, and while I COMPLETELY RESPECT that Flayra has a job and other things to do in life, the gaming community is a finicky bunch. They lose interest quickly when a game has balance issues.

So it will really depend on how updates are released. If 1.1 comes out in April or May, then I can see people sticking with the game. However if 1.1 doesn't come out until the fall, I really think that NS will lose a large part of their fan base.

Of course no one can predict the future, so we'll have to wait and see. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Regards,

Savant

airyK · March 2003

lol dont jinx ns like that ! i think ns will last a long time along with cs *argh*. ns is by far the best multiplayer mod ive ever played for half life....or any other game that is a mod....ns is actually better then alot of the other comerical games out there also!........i hope ns will last for a while...

mRWaffles · March 2003

Well if you guys want to see a good future donate some cash <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

RoDuS · March 2003

i agree with ambush's first post about the lag issues because everyday just about i play NS and everyday a server i am on crashes, like just before i was about to onos and the server crashed and i waqs **** not that onos is all that fun all the time but its funny to watch everyone run that see you.

So yer the game will fall on that point, not that a few servers crashing will stop me!

________________
The RoDuS

Redcap · March 2003

I'd have to say I agree with Savant, if a new version isn't out by late april early may you're going to start losing serious players. By serious I mean the people who really like NS and can't wait for the next version. I already feel like I'll rip my hair out and fling the whole bloody mess at someone if I have to sit through one more damn JP/HMG rush. I'm trying to think to myself how long I could take it before I gave is a rest and maybe came back to it three or four months later, and I'm thinking early May's probably it. I'm just not enough of a masochist to enjoy it much longer than that. I say do some short testing and get it out to the masses, a version with all new balance issues is far superior to one with balance issues that everyone is already exploiting.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'>

echs · March 2003

I have no problem of NS using the HL engine. NS looks quite nice considering it's use of a 4-5year old engine. Look at Unreal2...Superb GFX, weak gameplay. The DEVs have pumped alot of thought and work into NS and even when NS dies...It will always be remembered as one of the best online games...
But, things will look up again as no doubt we'll have a NS 2...Hopefully as a retail release with it's own engine or use of another engine. NS would have a great market out there and in it's current form, wipes the floor with most games out there.
NS has this magical quality about it that makes it fun again and again no matter how long you play it. I still thuroughly enjoy the game (Been playing non-stop for 4months now) and still have a bloody good laugh too (This all comes down to whose on the servers ofcourse).
The NS Team did something right with NS, them and their game will be forever remembered for making the best MOD (To me anyway) which can easily compete against retail release games and smack the hell outta 'em too!
The fact 1.1 will tweak the game so the performance will be much better and hence, less lag on servers too should be a great bonus for us NS players.
I don't let hackers/cheaters stop me from enjoying a good game, I usually play on community servers and such things are dealt with harshly.
Enough of me ranting, I don't see me stopping my time I devote to NS anytime soon...

-psygnosis-

Maian · March 2003

I think there will be an NS clone on a new engine. It won't necessarily be made by the NS team. Look at the CS clones on other engines: Tactical Ops on UT, Urban Terror on Quake 3.

MedHead · March 2003

There are many things that could affect the future of Natural Selection. These same issues have caused problems in other modifications. While it hasn't stopped the overall popularity of the other modifications, it has affected the playerbase style (meaning the type of users).

1. Clans/Leagues. While I understand that playing with organized teams is great, clans and leagues can have a damaging effect on the gameplay. Suddenly pub games, which were the lifeblood of the earlier versions, is deemed inferior. New gentlemen rules are placed in effect on clan games, but soon sift down to pub games. Suddenly what once was considered acceptable is considered unhonorable.

Examples: Team Fortress Classic. It was once considered a valid tactic for offense to attack offense. Now it is considered wrong. No defense outside of the base is acceptable any longer. Certain classes are not allowed in certain positions (offense, defense).

2. Stale gameplay. There are only so many tactics one can play. 5 minute games get really old.

Example: Counter-Strike. "RUSH THE BOMB SITE!" Need I say more?

3. Lack of updates. As someone stated earlier, FireArms lost a lot of players due to lack of updates. Day of Defeat is much the same. 4.0 has been in progress for some time now. I have lost interest in the game because the issues that need to be fixed are not being addressed until the next patch.

4. Lack of communication between players and developers. One thing that can rend the community in pieces is the feeling that nothing you say is important. Reading comments from Flayra show that he still cares about the fanbase enough to post in the forums.

Zel · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 21 2003, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Examples: Team Fortress Classic. It was once considered a valid tactic for offense to attack offense. Now it is considered wrong. No defense outside of the base is acceptable any longer. Certain classes are not allowed in certain positions (offense, defense).
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
hahah i remember getting flamed for putting turrets in the enemie's base. but then again it won us the game repeatedly.

you call it geh and wrong? i call it unorthodox, original and creative wins. oh, and more fun.

redeemed_darkness · March 2003

At the moment there is no real clear best engine to mod for hl was the best now rapidly declining
Don’t bother try to tell me what “Is the best” there is a lot of mixed views about it

Rion · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Maian @ Mar 21 2003, 02:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think there will be an NS clone on a new engine. It won't necessarily be made by the NS team. Look at the CS clones on other engines: Tactical Ops on UT, Urban Terror on Quake 3.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I know nothing about creating a game, or a mod.. but from my point of view.. making a CS copy would be -much- easier than making an NS copy.

Anyway.. I definatley don't see myself forgeting about NS and moving onto newer better games just yet. Although the single player demo of freelancer has had me hooked for the past day <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

masterswordman · March 2003

This isn't a TFC forum, but if you build a turrent outside well, I'll get my trusty demoman, and nuke it's **** off.

hapatec · March 2003

I agree with psygnosis. Although NS is based on an older, classic Half-Life engine, the devs did an excellent job at creating a rather unique mod. The gameplay rocks and even the textures on the walls look sharp. After tweaking out my graphics card, I settled into this skulk haven and now find myself easily slipping into a multi-hour game. (as long as good players are present <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>) Yes, the Unreal engine may be that much more advanced and provide lots of eye candy. However, I still think that the developers did a great job by pushing the limits of the HL engine, which makes NS one hot-looking mod.

Supernorn · March 2003

Keep in mind that Flayra wont want to code the whole of NS onto another engine, if he even does decide to port over. The reason he chose NS for the Hl engine, is that it has a huge player base and almost anyone can run Half Life on their computers. It would be reasonable to suggest that IF Half Life 2 is ever made and released, that valve will try its best to keep things easy to mod, and that Flayra may decide to port NS over, but honestly guys, NS2? hehehe..as much as i love the idea, i doubt it anytime soon.

Cowswin · March 2003

NS will last for a while, but not forever unless Flay comes up with some magic balance formula. It's a strategy game, put best, and strategy games are hard to balance out when both sides don't have an exact counter to each others weapons and/or tactics. It took a while before Starcraft became balanced, and when they did they had to stop touching the game for fear of wreaking havoc with the lightly balanced gameplay.

Personally, I'll stick around the halls until Flay stops updating the game or the updates become so sparse it's not worth waiting for. If they game gets balanced, I'll stick around for that too, but that's unlikely in the near future. I love aliens, and personally I'm seeing that the aliens are going to get the turnaround patch this time, but an unbalanced one if I'm not mistaken.

And as for updates, I don't think 2 months per update is unreasonable. If there's no word by the end of the month on a release date in the future, I bet we'll see some players traveling off...

Supernorn · March 2003

Coil says that the list of changes to 1.1 is several pages long...it would certainly be incredibly awesome if they were to be posted here, but i guess the list is liable to change and Flayra doesnt want to disappoint us with new things that he later finds wont work....but man, who said no news is good news? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Flayra · March 2003

Well no one knows what lies in future for NS, but I can guarantee it won't be going away any time soon. I plan on continuing to update it for years. Maybe there will be a way to make a sequel on a new engine for retail as well. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

I'll try to cut down some of the extra features and get 1.1 out sooner rather then later, but I've been incredibly busy recently. Thanks for the kind words!

MedHead · March 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zel @ Mar 21 2003, 01:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Mar 21 2003, 02:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Examples: Team Fortress Classic. It was once considered a valid tactic for offense to attack offense. Now it is considered wrong. No defense outside of the base is acceptable any longer. Certain classes are not allowed in certain positions (offense, defense).
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
hahah i remember getting flamed for putting turrets in the enemie's base. but then again it won us the game repeatedly.

you call it geh and wrong? i call it unorthodox, original and creative wins. oh, and more fun.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
No, I think you misunderstood. I don't like those new rules either, which is one reason why I quit playing TFC.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>but if you build a turrent outside well</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Masterswordsman, it's turret.

The Future Of Ns

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