Skulk Bite Model

Talesin · February 2003

True, one silent bhopper doesn't make *too* much difference, unless he's serving as point man, and pops around the corner well before the Skulks thought they would based on the walking sound. Same thing I sometimes pull with a teammate, having him go walking around when I have Silence, to distract the marine. Thing is, on the Alien side, that's a valid tactic. The upgrade is designed at least partially with it in mind. And 'other clans'? I'm not a clan. I speak my own mind, regardless of if I carry any form of tag at the moment, or am just kicking *ss solo.

There's a reason I've always avoided cheating/exploiting. Once you do, the stain never comes off. The doubt is always there, in the backs of people's minds.

AcKz · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 21 2003, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <coughs and points quietly toward demos of sYn scrims, including silent-bunnyhop (*tsk*).. then toward at least one sYn member posting about the locking of r_drawviewmodels, and how he was against it because the bite model was too blinding>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
lol @ the **** guy

heathenSlayer · February 2003

Talesin, if bhop is so easy, I'm sure that you can do it, right? Hah.

The question of the skulk bite model is not "What did the devs intend it for?" its "What is good for gameplay?"

Relic25 · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ Feb 17 2003, 11:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Ok, I think I've seen my 1000th posting from people who have a problem with how the skulk bite model looks. So, here's where you can post all your ideas on what you would do to replace the model. Once the topic starts rolling, I'll move it into the suggestions area.

Please note that your ideas are going to get shredded just as badly as the NS team's idea was, and for good reason most likely; so don't be a little ****. I am just curious to see what people have as an alternative to the current bite model that wouldn't look ludicrous (an unmoving snout sticking out at the bottom of your screen) to boring (nothing at all).

Also, this is the last post on the matter. Fill in here, because I will be hunting down all further postings on the subject and deleting them with extreme prejudice. Because I'm sick of the armchair quarterbacking.

So - let's have it... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
<b>Get back on topic. Now.</b>

This is NOT a thread to argue about the bite model or drawview or bunnyhopping. There are only 2 reasons to be posting in this thread. Either to say you like it as-is, or that you do not like it as-is (I don't care why) and if you do not like it as-is, then it is your responsibility to come up with a viable alternative. For once, it is an opportunity to criticize YOUR ideas, instead of ours.

That having been stated, thanks to all of those who have done just this. To those of you who are doing nothing but bickering, stop. I don't care which side of the argument you take.

wlibaers · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 21 2003, 06:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> There's a reason I've always avoided cheating/exploiting. Once you do, the stain never comes off. The doubt is always there, in the backs of people's minds.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You know, even if you never cheat, people can still think you do without proof. Some cheats are pretty obvious when you see them (the alien with marine model for example), but others aren't so obvious. that doesn't stop people from accusing others who get more kills than average.

Then there is the problem that, except for the more blatant ones, it is not always clear if something is a cheat or not. For someone who doesn't read this forum, it will be almost impossible to bite a marine in a vent. Does that mean that a marine in a vent is a cheater, because due to his position he has an advantage (invulnerable to skulks that do not know the "secret" trick) that the developers didn't intend?

While bunnyhopping is almost universally frowned upon here (even marines constantly doing normal jumps are frowned upon), in some games it's an acceptable part of the game and considered a valid technique. The manual doesn't mention it either. I can imagine someone trying NS, reading the manual but not the forum here, then getting on a server playing like he always played, and getting all sorts of insults for being a cheater. Wouldn't do the reputation of the mod much good.

There are other things like this. Some RTS games (including NS) suffer from the early-game rush, which means a game can be over very quickly by just using a single rather uninteresting tactic. That's generally not how the game was intended to be played (the addition of higher-level classes suggests that), but is using it cheating?

Relic25 · February 2003

I'll let that slide only because I know you were writing your post when mine went up.

Mart · February 2003

If someone is doing these things even though they've been to the forums, they've read the posts and they <b>know</b> it's an exploit. Then yes, they're cheating.

The vent thing, you don't really have a choice, marines enter vents so often theres no way to prevent them from using the 'Awful HitBoxes' exploit.

And getting back on topic. I think the skulk bite model should stay as it is. It's pretty, it's balancing. Live with it.

Shockeh · February 2003

Change it. It's not too much of a 'problem', but I still think 3rd person for a skulk would be a better idea.

(Uses various melee in FPS references, they've always worked better in 3rd etc etc blah blah)

There Relic, on topic enough? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

WolfWings · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cyanide @ Feb 17 2003, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Back in earlier testing, the skulks FOV was set at 120 as the default. It was changed because software wouldn't support it, hehe. Just a little bit of info for ya.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Okay, for the ten <b>billionth</b> time... software mode supports FOV's from 10 to 170! Attached is a quick image to show this, the RR on Nancy at 30, 90, and 120 FOV's in software mode.

As a note, these were captured at 800x600, rescaled to 400x300, then glued together so I could attach them as one image.

The only thing software mode does by default is remove the weapon model at FOV's >90, but that can and has been circumvented previously by mod developers for Half-Life. But guess what... OpenGL and DirectX do that by default too, last I checked.

Ruri · February 2003

EDIT: Sorry Relic25 took me some time to write this. I want the model changed. Either by transparency, few teeth removed, thin snout, or any other means. Just get rid of the blocked view.

OMG that FOV looks awesome. But I dunno, heh I'd rather just have skulk teeth changed, one improvement to skulks at a time plz =)

VeTeRaN · February 2003

Skulk Bite Model looks fine to me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Ollj · February 2003

I want fov 120 or higher!!!

Hellbilly · February 2003

I tried FOV 120 and it is really cool. IMO the skulks view should have that. Dunno if i´d throw up after 2 hours of playing like that <img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'>

Teeth model/animation as-is thank you.

RyoOhki · February 2003

I think I might be reaching for the bucket. Ah the days of Desent....not that it has anything to do with this <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
I'd like to see the 120 view tested at least, it could prove quite good.
Leave the teeth the way they are, nothing wrong with it. Just adapt.

EnemyWithin · February 2003

When I first started playing NS (the day it was released), I noticed the skulk bite and thought "interesting, but kind of annoying". I didn't think much else about it until I saw all the posts on the forums about the r_draw command.

I decided to try it out and see what all the fuss was about and...OMG...IT WAS GREAT! Not because of any major advantage that I was getting, but because I actually enjoyed playing marine and skulk now. I used to heavily favor alien over marine (hate muzzleflash), and would always evolve away from skulk as soon as possible. Now I LOVE playing skulks, as well as marine.

Now, I don't go around searching for ways to gain advantages over other players...I definately like an even playing field. I have made some scripts to help remove some of the tedious key combinations in the game, and the first thing I did was post them and make them available to everyone else. I'm not keeping silent about any "modifications" I make to the game. I like the minor changes I have made, as I find it removes the tedious parts of the game and leaves me to enjoy the fun stuff. I share them so that anyone/everyone can enjoy the same changes.

I have personally helped a bunch of people use my scripts and the responses are very interesting. 100% of those people have LOVED the r_draw change (as well as the simple 1 button blinks and leaps). They enjoyed NS without it, but now its like night and day. Skulk is much more fun for them...even those that still don't play it well <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> I know these people well, and they are definately very much against cheaters and exploiters. They aren't looking for any advantage with r_draw turned off...they just enjoy the game MUCH more that way. Isn't that what playing the game is all about...having fun?

So my vote is obviously for some change to the bite animation. I like the idea of translucent teeth. You would still get to see the animation (which is kinda cool to look at), but you won't lose sight of your surroundings. Maybe make it part of the "flashlight" feature of the aliens. You can see through the other aliens, why not through your own teeth? That way people can easily turn the translucent effect on/off to match their preference.

If/when r_draw gets locked in v1.1, I won't be happy about it, but I WONT be looking around for ways to circumvent the issue (like some people seem to suggest all r_draw 0 users will do). Some of us gave up our super-competitive nature years ago and just play for fun now.

Personally, I like to actually see what I am attacking in the game. I know a lot of people that agree with me.

AlienBreed · February 2003

ok i havent really read this whole thread cause 16 pages is too much for me <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>
i think the bite model should stay just as it is
it means when your munching on marine res nodes you have to think and listen
it blocks a good part of your view and if your not careful and watchful you will find a marine right ontop of you b4 you know it
i thought the whole point of it was to obscure your sight
its teh way teh game is made learn to play with it or dont play
and imo it pretty much is cheating to remove it

btw FOV 120? yes pls <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Epoch · February 2003

Leave it alone.

RandomEngy · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AlienBreed @ Feb 21 2003, 05:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> ok i havent really read this whole thread cause 16 pages is too much for me  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Then do us a favor and don't post. We don't need to make a really long thread longer by adding stuff that's been said before. Remember that since the thread is so long, in all likelihood what you're going to say has already been said, and that posting won't help the "the thread is long so i won't read it" syndrome.

Vimstl · February 2003

There's nothing you can do that can't be done.
Nothing you can sing that can't be sung.
<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Nothing you can say, but you can learn
How to play the game -
It's easy. </span>

"All You Need is Love" - the Beatles

AlienBreed · February 2003

i just posted my opinion
am i not entitled to do so?
perhaps if i said something wrong you could explain it to me instead of getting arsy and telling me not to post

btw...
has what i said been said b4? just out of interest

RandomEngy · February 2003

Nothing in your post in particular was wrong. It's just kind of pretentious to ignore every other post in this thread and go post something off the top of your head and pile it on the heap of posts, not knowing if what you said is already in there or not. It's annoying to be reading a thread and come across a post with content that's already been said twice earlier in the thread. Also, I don't feel like indulging you and finding a particular instance of what you said, because frankly, that should be your job.

AlienBreed · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Ok, I think I've seen my 1000th posting from people who have a problem with how the skulk bite model looks. So, here's where you can post all your ideas on what you would do to replace the model. Once the topic starts rolling, I'll move it into the suggestions area.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

as i said i simply posted my opinion
and sinse its my opinion it doesnt matter if its been said b4

im sorry if my little post upset you somehow
i guess ill have to think twice b4 venturing an opinion next time
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'>

MonsieurEvil · February 2003

Gah, I meant to close this one a while back. Click.

Skulk Bite Model

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