TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--heathenSlayer+Feb 17 2003, 02:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heathenSlayer @ Feb 17 2003, 02:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 17 2003, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 17 2003, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thankfully you won't be 'torn' with that decision when 1.1 comes out, and the draviewmodels <b>exploit</b> is locked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, bolding certain words in your sentences does not make your argument any more valid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> However, it allows me to place the same emphasis on words as I would were I speaking. It's not trying to make my posts 'more valid', it's pointing out the main idea to those who might, somehow, overlook the prime idea. It's happened more than once due to the fact that inflection is not exactly possible in text, except through the use of differing fonts. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> That useless piece of eye-candy costs me 15-20 fps, why should I have to look at it and let it slow my comp down? Valve put the command in for a reason, it's their game first, the NS team's mod second.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So.. you're running a Rage128? Or a TNT1? If the bite animation slows your system down, you're going to have worse problems than that, when you go into a room with a few turrets. The engine is Valve's. Natural Selection is not. The creators of NS have decided that that particular command holds no place in their game, and so are disabling it. Saying that is along the same lines of saying that mod creators have no right to take out the main Half-Life weapons and put in their own. Valve has granted them the ability to <b>mod</b>ify Half-Life.. taking out the r_drawviewmodels command to preserve an element of gameplay is, or will be, a part of that modification.
I should preface this by saying that I'm OK with the current bite model. I play Kharaa most of the time and do well almost always. Kills wise, I usually am either the top or one of the top three players on any aliens team if you look purely at kills, and I believe that I do good work strategically by being where I need to be in the map, being on the ball destroying marine expansions, etc etc. What I'm saying here that I'm not a random newbie who can't eat a marine.
Well, my suggestion, <i>assuming that it's desirable to obscure the vision of Skulk players less</i>, is this: simply alter that mesh a bit, so that instead of an entire jaw, you get like 3 or 4 long fangs snapping quickly. This way, you would be partially obscured (like the LMG flare is partially obscuring) but not entirely covering the screen.
My biggest gripe in the skulk melee dynamic right now is simply the number of marines jumping around while firing. I dont believe it's conducive to the mood of the game, and it's unfair that they can use the bottom of their hitbox which is not vulnerable to our attack as a kind of invincible shield. If they can jump, then they shouldnt have invincible feet. If they can do both of the above, skulks should have something slightly less obscuring in the melee mode.
<!--QuoteBegin--heathenSlayer+Feb 17 2003, 04:36 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (heathenSlayer @ Feb 17 2003, 04:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 17 2003, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 17 2003, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thankfully you won't be 'torn' with that decision when 1.1 comes out, and the draviewmodels <b>exploit</b> is locked. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Again, bolding certain words in your sentences does not make your argument any more valid.
That useless piece of eye-candy costs me 15-20 fps, why should I have to look at it and let it slow my comp down? Valve put the command in for a reason, it's their game first, the NS team's mod second. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually no, its Valves ENGINE and Flayra game, big difference, the r_drawviewmodels was put in for Half-life, not NS. If Flayra wants the bite model, then NS will have it. Simple as that.
Leave it as it is, it quite prevents the skulk from mindless chomping around. I like that the skulk has to bite only when it makes sense - only when there is some prey in front of it. Imagine that there is no disadvantage to biting all the time - thats equal to making the bitting handled completely automaticaly by the game, because the best strategy is just to hold the attack button down all the time when attacking. The player would not be doing any _decisions_ on when to bite, he/she would just bite all the time, because that would be the best way.
When a real dog attacks you, it decides when to bite, it does not chomp and chomp and chomp like mad, while trying to turn its mouth into your direction.
Or, you may make the teeth less obscuring but impose some kind of limit on bites - bitting into air (without hitting anything) could consume much more energy e.g. like acid rocket.
I'll be very happy if we revert skulk viewpoint back to 120 degrees. That should provide the skulks with a bit more viewable space allowing them to track marines better. Besides, fishbowl view is alot cooler than that old 90 degree view. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Lindstrom+Feb 17 2003, 11:42 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lindstrom @ Feb 17 2003, 11:42 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If Flayra wants the bite model, then NS will have it. Simple as that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If people don't want the bite model, they will find ways around it, simple as that.
except for the people saying the bite model is fine (which it is ..) I have not seen one post that Monse had asked for ...
with all these people saying how bad it is and how limiting it is to gameplay (its not ...) I have yet to see one post in this entire thread that gives a <b>good</b> well thought out replacement that isn't going to look like crap and be increadibly boring.
Monse said put up or shut up, I havn't seen one person to put up .. so - you guess it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Read my idea a few posts back, or better yet, read it here: Just make the middle teeth shorter, so that there is a gap in the middle when the Skulk bites down. This would still leave the teeth, and make the Skulk look like he has large fangs and smaller middle teeth (as is true of many "large toothed" predators). The animation doesn't really bother me THAT much (although it's still annoying), but I remember that it really **** me off when I started playing NS, and I'm sure it would turn off many of the new players. Because of all the people posting here, discussing about how r_drawviewmodels is an exploit and all that crap, no one noticed the three or four ideas that were posted.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If people don't want the bite model, they will find ways around it, simple as that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When these people are installing nobite.dll do you think they will finally realise they are cheats?
eh, contrary to what you might think, I did read it.
I just didnt think it was that good an idea, I think it would look too much like the lerk model, but it was a better idea then the rest, I'll give you that much
Personally, I have no problem with the skulk's view model, but I have a suggestion that would be a fair compromise.
Make the skulk's jaws only close all the way on <b>misses</b>, on hits make them only close a little bit. This would solve a lot of things:
1) The times when you usually lose track of marines are right after you bite them, this would reduce that problem.
2) It would create a balance between choosing to spam-bite and losing your view <i>or</i> only biting when you are in close and pretty sure you can hit. It would be a tradeoff between precision and brute force.
3) It would be more natural and intuitive. You would be able to SEE when you got a hit rather then straining to hear the hit noise over all the biting.
4) It just makes more sense for you to be actually biting and sinking your teeth in a little rather than just snapping your jaws and doing damage somehow.
i dont think that is possible, although it is an inventive, realistic and effective idea <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i like the bite model as is, im a great skulk, i can see where people are and track their positions without seeing them for a quarter of a second, or however long the teeth are down, a marine does nto move THAT fast, so assuming he didnt change direction or speed i can predict his movements jsut fine.
skulk teeth obscure view, so i adapted.
muzzle flash actually contrasts so much from NS's darkness as to blind me for a half second, so i complain about that one (in other threads!)
I seriously doubt that the marine muzzle flash (they didnt know how annoying it would be) and the skulk bite model (they did that so you could sing the jaws beat while running around the map) were put in for balance.
I sugest having a snout on the bottom of your screen and when you attack the snout raises and closes.. like how it would look if you had a big snout infront of your eyes.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--Fooshie+Feb 17 2003, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fooshie @ Feb 17 2003, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I seriously doubt that the marine muzzle flash (they didnt know how annoying it would be) and the skulk bite model (they did that so you could sing the jaws beat while running around the map) were put in for balance.
I sugest having a snout on the bottom of your screen and when you attack the snout raises and closes.. like how it would look if you had a big snout infront of your eyes.
This might be more annoying though... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Er... doubt it? It's been stated that they were, outright. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marine muzzleflash is no problem for me... 'how annoying' it is? I barely notice it at all, and feel that most overblow its size to compensate for having gotten chomped down. 'The muzzleflash was in my eyes! Do-over!'
maybe you could keep it the same, but instead of having it opaque, have the teeth somewhat translucent, so it still obscures your view, but so you can still see stuff beyond it.
Actually I'm pretty flexible on this issue, all I want is CONSISTENCY.
Right now there are TWO aspects that I feel come into play regarding the bite model.
A reason you have so many people complaining about the skulk bite model is because you have marines who hop around like noobs on crack when you get close, and they will bunny hop away at excessive speeds to a safe distance and pick you off. As such, you end up with people who use the drawviewmodel exploit to counter the bunnyhop exploit. The marines then use the pistol script exploit to counter the skulk's drawviewmodel exploit and so on and so on. (see a pattern here?)
(BTW: I describe 'bunnyhop' as hopping away at an INCREASED rate of speed, and/or defeating the backwards walking speed limitation with hopping. Simply hopping while shooting is not what I am concerned with - although I would like to see decreased accuracy when they do so)
So let's make a choice. If you can kill the marine bunnyhop and pistol exploits, then leave IN the teeth and kill the drawviewmodel exploit. If the bunnyhop/pistol exploits stay in, then remove the teeth and be done with it.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited February 2003
<!--QuoteBegin--Fooshie+Feb 17 2003, 06:48 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fooshie @ Feb 17 2003, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 18 2003, 02:41 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 18 2003, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Er... doubt it? It's been stated that they were, outright<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> LOL. Thats just a statement to cover their **** <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Odd how it was put out when it was first asked about. As if it were prepared beforehand.. almost like they were expecting someone to ask. Hmm. Premeditation. Doesn't intention preclude premeditation?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Whoever zealout of dev: " omg you nubbles fgts its balance gg lamer!"
Whoever dev: "uhh..err...balance..thats right, balance..." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Anyone who flames me is a brown noser and you know it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Heh... so you can flame, but anyone who flames you falls into X category? Congratulations! You've just fallen into my 'IQ smaller than shoe size' category! Oh my GOD.. I didn't even <b>realize</b> that your words were gospel about NS! Wait... you're not Flayra. F*ckwit. <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And if you dont notice the muzzle flash you must crank your gamma way up. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> 1.0 gamma, baby. Calibrated through the wonders of Adobe Gamma Loader to be as precisely on as a non hardware-1.0-gamma monitor can be. And I still don't notice the muzzle flash as I ADAPTED to it. My brain filters it out internally, after having SEEN it so often. It's just newbies to the game who seem to have a problem with it... that and those people running on video cards which have severe problems. That or they're just exaggerating about how bright and screen-filling and non-translucent it is, so they won't feel bad about getting eaten in NS even though '[they] r0><><0r j00 iN CS, n00b!'.
<!--QuoteBegin--Terah+Feb 18 2003, 12:34 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Terah @ Feb 18 2003, 12:34 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If people don't want the bite model, they will find ways around it, simple as that.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When these people are installing nobite.dll do you think they will finally realise they are cheats? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It's legitimate customization vs enforced eye-candy.
i didnt read what you said but it was pretty big so i think youve got insecurity problems with what other people think. you = mad, i = win. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
stay on topic and quit defending yourself, of course im being a hypocrite here but it needed to be said.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'><!--endemo--> Well here is the deal. 1. Not every single person in the whole wide world spends all of their time playing NS. done picking your jaws up off the ground yet? 2. One of the reasons for this is that it is kind of hard to get used to the skulk bite model. I know, I know what kind of llama plays other games regularly instead of NS... 3.The marine models shoot kind like every other half life mod.
for instance say there is this guy, well call him 6.02x10^23 and he got bored of NS took a little time off and played a diffrent mod, say just for the sake of argument DOD. So he gets used to never being able to shoot anything unless he's standing stock still, and getting camped from some guy with a sniper rifle and he gets a little bored of this too (after say three weeks). He remebers all the good times he had playing NS and so he comes back. What do you think he finds out? Well the first thing, as a Marine he's like some kind of god. He hits everything and it takes two sometimes three hits to kill him! Room full of skulks? No problem, thats not like dodging machine gun fire, or having to figure out how to get away from the grenade that falls on your head when you are a MG with your bipod down and prone. Skulks are easy. So he thinks to him self? WTF, this is easy I'll go play as a skulk. And what do you think happens? He cannot see anything, the marines eat him up because when ever he wants to hurt one he suddenly goes blind. So he says poop! I'm gonna go back to playing DOD...
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Feb 17 2003, 03:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Feb 17 2003, 03:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And finally, if I had my way, I would leave everything the way it is and give the user the option to turn the model on or off using r_drawview. I know that'll never happen, but hey, I got a lot of strange ideas =) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Id like to see you play a few rounds in my server, where r_drawviewmodel is locked to 1.
Keep it as it is, with only one amendment: make some sorta red splash on the teeth when you actually bite a marine, so you can tell more easily how close you are to the kill and decide whether to run or suicide it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Zhang+Feb 17 2003, 07:06 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zhang @ Feb 17 2003, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'll be very happy if we revert skulk viewpoint back to 120 degrees. That should provide the skulks with a bit more viewable space allowing them to track marines better. Besides, fishbowl view is alot cooler than that old 90 degree view. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i agree completely
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 17 2003, 02:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 17 2003, 02:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Thankfully you won't be 'torn' with that decision when 1.1 comes out, and the draviewmodels <b>exploit</b> is locked. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <span style='color:orange'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>AMEN!</b> </span></span>
On another note, would any of you object to me using a FOV of 120? Would any of you think that was an exploit? Seeing how it was implemented in a beta version (and only removed for compatibility issues, not balance problems), I would think that it would be considered legal. Does anyone else disagree? I would like to hear the opposing arguments.
<!--QuoteBegin---_Phoenix_-+Feb 17 2003, 04:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-_Phoenix_- @ Feb 17 2003, 04:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I believe the discussion subject refers to the way the skulks teeth flash across the screen when you bite, thus obscuring your view.
Which incidentally, I don't think is a problem as long as you possess a modicum of skill. I've seen people go on about it who are skillful so I guess they just like whinging about stuff <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> only problem is, when skulks are struck by lagg, it makes it a lot harder than it is for marines who are lagging, because not only do the marines bounce around, but you can't see them for your own bloody teeth <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
what I would like to see externally though, is different attack animations for the fade, they all look pretty much the exact same <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ...
If you can't deal with the skulk bite model, you were not destined to ever be good at anything that requires a little bit of skill and adjusting to something different.
In short, you suck at life. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Feb 18 2003, 03:12 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Feb 18 2003, 03:12 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'd suggest shutting your festering pie hole before you make any more of an *ss of yourself, Fooshie. Unless your wit was so stunningly deadpan, so painfully ironic, so completely straight-man that it didn't manage to come across in type. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Holy verbal ****-beating, batman!
I first got interested in NS when I seen a screenshot of the teeth! It's unique! It's creative! And by god, it's cool! I play CS and DOD from time to time. I go to NS and have NO PROBLEM adjusting. I go play Metroid Prime on my Gamecube with it's wacky no-strafe controls. Come back to NS, takes me 3 seconds to get used to it again, BUT NO PROBLEM. Framerate issues? I run a POS TNT2. NP here. Can't see anything when fire your bitegun or lmg? Maybe learn to use it in short bursts instead of holding down the trigger. Some great ideas (like the teeth not closing on a "hit") but otherwise, enough whining has been done.
IF ANYTHING, the world models of many aliens need more "bite" and the field of view change has me VERY intrigued!
Comments
Again, bolding certain words in your sentences does not make your argument any more valid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, it allows me to place the same emphasis on words as I would were I speaking. It's not trying to make my posts 'more valid', it's pointing out the main idea to those who might, somehow, overlook the prime idea. It's happened more than once due to the fact that inflection is not exactly possible in text, except through the use of differing fonts.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
That useless piece of eye-candy costs me 15-20 fps, why should I have to look at it and let it slow my comp down? Valve put the command in for a reason, it's their game first, the NS team's mod second.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So.. you're running a Rage128? Or a TNT1? If the bite animation slows your system down, you're going to have worse problems than that, when you go into a room with a few turrets.
The engine is Valve's. Natural Selection is not. The creators of NS have decided that that particular command holds no place in their game, and so are disabling it. Saying that is along the same lines of saying that mod creators have no right to take out the main Half-Life weapons and put in their own.
Valve has granted them the ability to <b>mod</b>ify Half-Life.. taking out the r_drawviewmodels command to preserve an element of gameplay is, or will be, a part of that modification.
Well, my suggestion, <i>assuming that it's desirable to obscure the vision of Skulk players less</i>, is this: simply alter that mesh a bit, so that instead of an entire jaw, you get like 3 or 4 long fangs snapping quickly. This way, you would be partially obscured (like the LMG flare is partially obscuring) but not entirely covering the screen.
My biggest gripe in the skulk melee dynamic right now is simply the number of marines jumping around while firing. I dont believe it's conducive to the mood of the game, and it's unfair that they can use the bottom of their hitbox which is not vulnerable to our attack as a kind of invincible shield. If they can jump, then they shouldnt have invincible feet. If they can do both of the above, skulks should have something slightly less obscuring in the melee mode.
Again, bolding certain words in your sentences does not make your argument any more valid.
That useless piece of eye-candy costs me 15-20 fps, why should I have to look at it and let it slow my comp down? Valve put the command in for a reason, it's their game first, the NS team's mod second. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually no, its Valves ENGINE and Flayra game, big difference, the r_drawviewmodels was put in for Half-life, not NS. If Flayra wants the bite model, then NS will have it. Simple as that.
When a real dog attacks you, it decides when to bite, it does not chomp and chomp and chomp like mad, while trying to turn its mouth into your direction.
Or, you may make the teeth less obscuring but impose some kind of limit on bites - bitting into air (without hitting anything) could consume much more energy e.g. like acid rocket.
If people don't want the bite model, they will find ways around it, simple as that.
except for the people saying the bite model is fine (which it is ..) I have not seen one post that Monse had asked for ...
with all these people saying how bad it is and how limiting it is to gameplay (its not ...) I have yet to see one post in this entire thread that gives a <b>good</b> well thought out replacement that isn't going to look like crap and be increadibly boring.
Monse said put up or shut up, I havn't seen one person to put up .. so - you guess it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read my idea a few posts back, or better yet, read it here:
Just make the middle teeth shorter, so that there is a gap in the middle when the Skulk bites down. This would still leave the teeth, and make the Skulk look like he has large fangs and smaller middle teeth (as is true of many "large toothed" predators). The animation doesn't really bother me THAT much (although it's still annoying), but I remember that it really **** me off when I started playing NS, and I'm sure it would turn off many of the new players.
Because of all the people posting here, discussing about how r_drawviewmodels is an exploit and all that crap, no one noticed the three or four ideas that were posted.
Eater.
When these people are installing nobite.dll do you think they will finally realise they are cheats?
I just didnt think it was that good an idea, I think it would look too much like the lerk model, but it was a better idea then the rest, I'll give you that much
Make the skulk's jaws only close all the way on <b>misses</b>, on hits make them only close a little bit. This would solve a lot of things:
1) The times when you usually lose track of marines are right after you bite them, this would reduce that problem.
2) It would create a balance between choosing to spam-bite and losing your view <i>or</i> only biting when you are in close and pretty sure you can hit. It would be a tradeoff between precision and brute force.
3) It would be more natural and intuitive. You would be able to SEE when you got a hit rather then straining to hear the hit noise over all the biting.
4) It just makes more sense for you to be actually biting and sinking your teeth in a little rather than just snapping your jaws and doing damage somehow.
i dont think that is possible, although it is an inventive, realistic and effective idea <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
i like the bite model as is, im a great skulk, i can see where people are and track their positions without seeing them for a quarter of a second, or however long the teeth are down, a marine does nto move THAT fast, so assuming he didnt change direction or speed i can predict his movements jsut fine.
skulk teeth obscure view, so i adapted.
muzzle flash actually contrasts so much from NS's darkness as to blind me for a half second, so i complain about that one (in other threads!)
I sugest having a snout on the bottom of your screen and when you attack the snout raises and closes.. like how it would look if you had a big snout infront of your eyes.
This might be more annoying though...
I sugest having a snout on the bottom of your screen and when you attack the snout raises and closes.. like how it would look if you had a big snout infront of your eyes.
This might be more annoying though... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Er... doubt it? It's been stated that they were, outright. <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Marine muzzleflash is no problem for me... 'how annoying' it is? I barely notice it at all, and feel that most overblow its size to compensate for having gotten chomped down. 'The muzzleflash was in my eyes! Do-over!'
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LOL. Thats just a statement to cover their ****
Whoever zealout of dev: " omg you nubbles fgts its balance gg lamer!"
Whoever dev: "uhh..err...balance..thats right, balance..."
And if you dont notice the muzzle flash you must crank your gamma way up.
Anyone who flames me is a brown noser and you know it.
Right now there are TWO aspects that I feel come into play regarding the bite model.
A reason you have so many people complaining about the skulk bite model is because you have marines who hop around like noobs on crack when you get close, and they will bunny hop away at excessive speeds to a safe distance and pick you off. As such, you end up with people who use the drawviewmodel exploit to counter the bunnyhop exploit. The marines then use the pistol script exploit to counter the skulk's drawviewmodel exploit and so on and so on. (see a pattern here?)
(BTW: I describe 'bunnyhop' as hopping away at an INCREASED rate of speed, and/or defeating the backwards walking speed limitation with hopping. Simply hopping while shooting is not what I am concerned with - although I would like to see decreased accuracy when they do so)
So let's make a choice. If you can kill the marine bunnyhop and pistol exploits, then leave IN the teeth and kill the drawviewmodel exploit. If the bunnyhop/pistol exploits stay in, then remove the teeth and be done with it.
My two cents anyway.
Regards,
Savant
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LOL. Thats just a statement to cover their ****
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Odd how it was put out when it was first asked about. As if it were prepared beforehand.. almost like they were expecting someone to ask. Hmm. Premeditation. Doesn't intention preclude premeditation?
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Whoever zealout of dev: " omg you nubbles fgts its balance gg lamer!"
Whoever dev: "uhh..err...balance..thats right, balance..."
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Anyone who flames me is a brown noser and you know it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh... so you can flame, but anyone who flames you falls into X category? Congratulations! You've just fallen into my 'IQ smaller than shoe size' category! Oh my GOD.. I didn't even <b>realize</b> that your words were gospel about NS! Wait... you're not Flayra. F*ckwit.
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And if you dont notice the muzzle flash you must crank your gamma way up.
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1.0 gamma, baby. Calibrated through the wonders of Adobe Gamma Loader to be as precisely on as a non hardware-1.0-gamma monitor can be. And I still don't notice the muzzle flash as I ADAPTED to it. My brain filters it out internally, after having SEEN it so often. It's just newbies to the game who seem to have a problem with it... that and those people running on video cards which have severe problems. That or they're just exaggerating about how bright and screen-filling and non-translucent it is, so they won't feel bad about getting eaten in NS even though '[they] r0><><0r j00 iN CS, n00b!'.
<b>** Be nice or be quiet. **</b>
When these people are installing nobite.dll do you think they will finally realise they are cheats? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's legitimate customization vs enforced eye-candy.
stay on topic and quit defending yourself, of course im being a hypocrite here but it needed to be said.
1. Not every single person in the whole wide world spends all of their time playing NS.
done picking your jaws up off the ground yet?
2. One of the reasons for this is that it is kind of hard to get used to the skulk bite model.
I know, I know what kind of llama plays other games regularly instead of NS...
3.The marine models shoot kind like every other half life mod.
for instance say there is this guy, well call him
6.02x10^23
and he got bored of NS took a little time off and played a diffrent mod, say
just for the sake of argument DOD.
So he gets used to never being able to shoot anything unless he's standing stock still,
and getting camped from some guy with a sniper rifle and he gets a little bored of this too (after say three weeks).
He remebers all the good times he had playing NS and so he comes back.
What do you think he finds out?
Well the first thing, as a Marine he's like some kind of god. He hits everything and it takes two sometimes three hits to kill him!
Room full of skulks? No problem, thats not like dodging machine gun fire, or having to figure out how to get away from the grenade that falls
on your head when you are a MG with your bipod down and prone. Skulks are easy.
So he thinks to him self? WTF, this is easy I'll go play as a skulk.
And what do you think happens?
He cannot see anything, the marines eat him up because when ever he wants to hurt one he suddenly goes blind.
So he says poop! I'm gonna go back to playing DOD...
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Id like to see you play a few rounds in my server, where r_drawviewmodel is locked to 1.
Im so glad r_drawviewmodel will be locked in 1.1.
i agree completely
<span style='color:orange'><span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><b>AMEN!</b> </span></span>
On another note, would any of you object to me using a FOV of 120? Would any of you think that was an exploit? Seeing how it was implemented in a beta version (and only removed for compatibility issues, not balance problems), I would think that it would be considered legal. Does anyone else disagree? I would like to hear the opposing arguments.
Which incidentally, I don't think is a problem as long as you possess a modicum of skill. I've seen people go on about it who are skillful so I guess they just like whinging about stuff <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
only problem is, when skulks are struck by lagg, it makes it a lot harder than it is for marines who are lagging, because not only do the marines bounce around, but you can't see them for your own bloody teeth <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
what I would like to see externally though, is different attack animations for the fade, they all look pretty much the exact same <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ...
In short, you suck at life. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Holy verbal ****-beating, batman!
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r_drawviewmodel 0, 15 minutes. Down with blinding! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
So <b>thats</b> how you killed almost every marine you saw! Mighty disappointed...
I was Sancho in that game.
IF ANYTHING, the world models of many aliens need more "bite" and the field of view change has me VERY intrigued!