Why are people insisting the model is there for capping skill. I'm missing something here? I never followed the development process of NS so I wouldn't know. Is it really that big of a deal if someone uses r_drawviewmodel or not? Jeez, even putting it in the same category as cheating.
A good player can do good with or without it. So would that player be exploiting if he in his mind not even seeing the weapon model. Y'know that zen like state that makes you feel like a bhudda.
<b>BedwettingType:</b> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but enabling the viewmodel for everyone doesn't help people who can't afford a top-of-the-line system. As someone stated earlier, the model can knock your FPS down by 10-20, and can take longer to animate at slow speeds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And as I stated earlier, if your computer cannot handle a 4 year old game engine, perhaps computer gaming is not worth your time or money.
<b>Moon:</b> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it were possible to alter NS to include a mini game of PAC-MAN in the bottom right hand corner of my screen, to play while I was waiting to respawn for example, and this was never shared with anyone else nobody would be any the wiser. Clearly this has no game-impact for anyone else, and yet anyone I killed would be the victim of an "exploiter".
Now Imagine that instead of PAC-MAN I enable something on my client that adds to the atmosphere of the game for me and perhaps boosts my fps somewhat. I'm now somewhat more of an efficient killer but nothing dramatically changes i.e. maybe my team works well together and we win as a result, or maybe we all suck and end up losing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at the leap of logic there, however. A mini-game, which only serves to distract, isn't similar to r_drawviewmodel. As others have stated, it affects the skill of the player, allowing them to see more than they normally would see. This is not a mini game. It's a setting which gives them more of an advantage in game. The same could be said for a wallhack. Those pesky walls are so annoying. Let's get rid of them! And hey, it boosts my fps too!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you believe that having a superior system (internet connection etc) to give a player an edge is "wrong" ? I'm assuming the answer is going to be "no" here. Given this fact, don't you think it's a little selfish then to automatically deny someone the chance to be more competitive when they use a PAC-MAN like exploit and genuinely can't afford an upgrade for whatever reason. Or maybe they are a victim of being in an area where certain broad-band technologies are not possible to have.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please read my message above. Just because it's available, does not mean it's not a cheat. <b>And</b> as I said earlier, <b>if they can afford the internet connection monthly fee, they can certainly afford to purchase a better graphics card.</b> If they cannot, then <b>do not cheat to be able to play the game.</b> If you cannot handle the load of the game, do not ruin it for others so that you can have fun.
A few pages back, someone suggested semi-transparent teeth, and after reading through this whole thread, I deem it the best idea here. First off, it doesn't involve a whole lot of work, just a little bit of model tweaking. Second, it's a good compromise...you can still see somewhat, but your vision is much more obscured than with r_drawviewmodel 0 or with your mouth open. People who hold down the attack button are still going to suffer, although somewhat less, and finesse attackers will still have a fair advantage over them, and best of all, it's an easy fix.
I really don't think that's necessary. It would mean that everyone would use the transparent teeth to be able to see better. And then, boom, we have a level playing field again. Which means someone will have to go a step further, and then attempt to rationalize it.
There have been multiple occurences where users with good computers will purposely set up their Half-Life configuration to act 'lagged' so that they get better use of the netcode, jetpacks, etc. This would be another one of them.
And besides, who ever heard of transparent teeth?!
After skipping over some of the rants and reading the actual suggestions, I have to say i like the idea of a "partially-cloaked" appearing set of teeth... Frankly the fisheye lens would probably make me sick and removing the bite models seems silly because for me it's what makes being a skulk what it is. I understand people's complaints about their computers sucking so much, i used to not even be able to play NS (like 4 fps max) before i got a brand spanking new one (pretty much for the purpose of being able to play it, among other things <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> ) but I still would not have removed the model if i had thought about that solution to boosting my fps. I still think it is an exploit plain and simple, kind of like a nade bug in day of defeat.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Oh, but doing alpha-transparency will slow down these people with graphics cards that can't handle rendering a mouth closing! It'll bog their machines past slow, to rock-stopped, if it can't handle rendering it opaque! Seriously. The mouth isn't a HUGE number of polys. If anything, a single turret would lag the machine more. Unless they're using a TBR-based card... in which case it would SPEED THE FRAMERATE UP.
<!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Feb 20 2003, 12:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Feb 20 2003, 12:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ... Which means someone will have to go a step further, and then attempt to rationalize it... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah but this will happen no matter what they do. It just might become less accessable and much less desireable to the average player. Less temptation to remove something that is seen as an annoyance or obstruction. People who really want to cheat/exploit will find a way to do it no matter what, it is not a good idea to try and cater to those types.
Talesin, to paraphrase a post i just made people with cards who can't handle that kind of thing probably have bigger fish to fry when they play this game, IE the particle system or dynamic lighting. It's simply not designed to run perfect on bottom-of-the-barrel types of systems. While I'm sure the devs would want it to be accessable to as many people as possible, i just don't think that need is as important as the overall enjoyment of the majority.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Most of us have agreed that the distraction is part of the game, but enabling the viewmodel for everyone doesn't help people who can't afford a top-of-the-line system. As someone stated earlier, the model can knock your FPS down by 10-20, and can take longer to animate at slow speeds<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not an OPTION to remove the skulk bite in NS, it's a recognised exploit. My mate runs NS on an old Pentium 300 with a geforce 1. Does he find it "impossible to play" because of skulk bites? No sir, he plays as well as anyone I've met. Sure if you try running NS on a 486 with 8 megs of RAM it's going to lag. The devs are not going to remove something as fundamental as the skulk bite because lower end systems experiance minor drops in FPS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Moon+Feb 19 2003, 09:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Moon @ Feb 19 2003, 09:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I have seen several people comment that the bite model is deliberately designed to blind the skulk. If someone could point me to a link perhaps where this has been discussed ...or if a developer would be kind enough to confirm this I'd greatly appreciate it. I just have a hard time believing that that was the true intent behind the model (as opposed to atmosphere). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It wasn't deliberately meant to block your view in the beginning. However, because it obviously hindered your gameplay a lot, they had to balance it that way. At this point, it is deliberately meant to block your view, because doing so balances the game. Sure it wasn't the original intention, but at this point it is part of the balance.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Feb 19 2003, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Feb 19 2003, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->let me put it this way...play a game with the models on, then play with them off....then try to go back, heh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are enjoying your own score at the expense of other's enjoyment. You are ruining games by unbalancing the teams. Yet you feel it is not a good enough reason to change back? You are a very dishonorable person. I hope to never see your name in a game again.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Moon: If it were possible to alter NS to include a mini game of PAC-MAN in the bottom right hand corner of my screen, to play while I was waiting to respawn for example, and this was never shared with anyone else nobody would be any the wiser. Clearly this has no game-impact for anyone else, and yet anyone I killed would be the victim of an "exploiter".
Now Imagine that instead of PAC-MAN I enable something on my client that adds to the atmosphere of the game for me and perhaps boosts my fps somewhat. I'm now somewhat more of an efficient killer but nothing dramatically changes i.e. maybe my team works well together and we win as a result, or maybe we all suck and end up losing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>MedHead</b> Look at the leap of logic there, however. A mini-game, which only serves to distract, isn't similar to r_drawviewmodel. As others have stated, it affects the skill of the player, allowing them to see more than they normally would see. This is not a mini game. It's a setting which gives them more of an advantage in game. The same could be said for a wallhack. Those pesky walls are so annoying. Let's get rid of them! And hey, it boosts my fps too! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the major sticking point we have is just _how much of an advantage_ is truly gained by switching off those chompers. I believe that that advantage is minimal whereas you do not. Hey, fair enough...everyone is entitled to their opinion. As for my logic, perhaps somewhat of a leap I'll grant you. However don't you think that going from a situation where you can see clearly what you're trying to bite versus seeing through walls is somewhat of a leap as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ?
At any rate, I think the future of NS is bright and I will certainly continue to play it whatever comes of this whole issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Someone Who Cares</b>
It wasn't deliberately meant to block your view in the beginning. However, because it obviously hindered your gameplay a lot, they had to balance it that way. At this point, it is deliberately meant to block your view, because doing so balances the game. Sure it wasn't the original intention, but at this point it is part of the balance <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for answering my question. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Charge+Feb 20 2003, 06:45 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Charge @ Feb 20 2003, 06:45 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Who cares. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Obviously these 11 pages of post means someone cares...
On to less idiotic matters.
Someone up there, I think Talesin was talking about how the Lerk bite model is easier to use than the Skulk bite model. I thought a little about this and I'm agreeing with it. It feels more "bouncy" as whoever put it, and maybe the skulk model could be changed like that?
I think what "bouncy" means really, is that the teeth don't come so far together, and spring back up to the normal position faster than on the Skulk.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--Narf+Feb 19 2003, 09:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Narf @ Feb 19 2003, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Talesin, to paraphrase a post i just made people with cards who can't handle that kind of thing probably have bigger fish to fry when they play this game, IE the particle system or dynamic lighting. It's simply not designed to run perfect on bottom-of-the-barrel types of systems. While I'm sure the devs would want it to be accessable to as many people as possible, i just don't think that need is as important as the overall enjoyment of the majority. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> (taps Narf on the shoulder, and holds up extra-large point <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags around the surprise in that previous post) Trust me, I'm firm in the belief that anyone who is playing NS and thinks that turning off r_drawviewmodels is the difference between 'playable' and 'unplayable' is just trying to rationalize their favorite cheat as something other than a way to get around a balancing factor of the game. I don't like cheaters. I don't like exploiters. And I'm quite vocal about it, considering the apparent number of people who have no problem with a lapse in those particular principles.
Duff-Man: Wasn't me talking about using the Lerk bite model.. I'm actually perfectly happy with the Skulk bite as it is now. The only thing I'd change would be to increase the FOV back to 120, so it'd be harder to 'lose' a target you're biting at just because they crack-bounced off to the side.
ShockehIf a packet drops on the web and nobody's near to see it...Join Date: 2002-11-19Member: 9336NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if they can afford the internet connection monthly fee, they can certainly afford to purchase a better graphics card<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually no. I can afford the £14.99 for my 'net connection, but I can't afford the £180 for a new GFX card.
Thankfully, it doesn't affect my FPS much, so I don't care.
For what its worth, I thought the skulk bite model was cool and original in the first couple of weeks of playing NS. But after that it just seems like a hindrance. I still haven't gotten used to it and I've been playing since the game was released to the public. Considering that, I think there should be a change of some sort. It's a lot worse than the muzzle flash marines have to deal with. The low cost cheap solution is to be able to remove the model.
Some people in quake3 mods do this and there is no mod or mod league anywhere in quake3 that has a problem with anyone doing that. But this isn't quake3 so I can't be super vehement about that.
Please god change it. There are many other ways to make the skulk feel "cool" without obstructing the players vision. ALL the top clans are annoyed with the skulk bite model, and a significant amount (if not most) of the rest feel the same.
Some options: Make the animation faster while slowing the client side rate of fire (but server side stays unchanged). Make the bite transparent. Have a chamber upgrade make the bite transparent (adv hive sight alrdy makes things like this). Remove it completely, in clan play aliens already are at a disadvantage.
Here is the problem at hand. <b>People will remain angry if it is not changed. Noone will be angry if it is changed.</b> At the most ppl will be mad for a week since the "whiners" got their way. Then all will be forgotten. I mean how could there be complaints after the model is changed? The benefits far outweight the drawbacks.
Here's something funny. <b>People are arguing to CHANGE/REMOVE the model. Some people against this say they want to keep the existing model because they like it. If the opposition really DO want to keep the model in, then make it a client side official option. A checkbox saying "Turn skulk teeth off". That way they get to keep their atmosphere. The thing is, almost everyone would turn the teeth off. Thats funny, why is everyone checking that box if they said they want to keep the existing model? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> </b>
Lastly, people will alwas find a way to remove the skulk bite if it is official or not. Don't give them the chance to, just change it for everyone. NS is the first game where there is such a large diff bewteen exploits and hacks. I know MANY people who use exploits but ARE NOT HACKERS. There are people that exploit, but do not hack, I'm not suggesting you give everyone aim bots and wall hacks.
EDIT: Oh wanna add this. "Capping skill" is just disgusting. Think about it for a bit and you'll see why. I play games competitively and enjoy myself. When someone limits how well I am able to do this, it makes it less fun for me since I always feel like I COULD have done better. Make other changes but do not handicap the tools at my disposal.
<!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Feb 20 2003, 12:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Feb 20 2003, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>if they can afford the internet connection monthly fee, they can certainly afford to purchase a better graphics card.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ehh.. not true
im only 16 and my dad pays for my internet... so yeah i asked him for a new comp/ gfx card cuz mine is a **** geforce 2 32mb or 64... most likely 32...
and yeah.. well i COULD spend my own money... but hell id rather spend it hanging out wif friends.. go drinkin.. go chill wif some gals <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*The reason I like the skulk bite anim the way it is, and don't like the idea of (with a cvar or otherwise) removing or replacing it because it adds that little bit more skill required to play the game. I'll play anything that demands skill rather than luck or a high value in some arbitrary character stat, and this adds more skill. Learn to deal with it. It makes you a better melee fighter anyway, to feel where your target is without perfect visual contact. Use the force, Luke!
*The Lerk anim's also easier because the jaw is thinner. The skulk bite blocks the periphery of your vision, the Lerk doesn't. Personally, I think that's just one of the advantages you spend your 33 res for <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
*About the increased FOV: When I used to play TFC as a spy I tried increasing my FOV past 90 to make it easier to follow my targets in a melee. It didn't work because everything was too small. I couldn't see where I was going. Making an alias to switch my FOV to wider when I pulled out my knife also didn't work. I really think it's fine as it is - when you're good enough you can feel your target based on sounds, and glimpses, rather than constant eye contact. I'd also like to retain what distance vision the skulk has. Seriously, it would be a lot harder to pick out enemies crouched in corners.
Come to think of it, it might be a viable replacement for Advanced Hivesight: when you hit your flashlight key your vision goes fishbowl as well as lighting up enemies <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
No amount of skill can overcome blocked vision. The other senses can only go so far to aid. This is why everyone s calling it "capping skill". Think of a boxer who flinches...
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
<!--QuoteBegin--Archzai+Feb 20 2003, 03:39 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Archzai @ Feb 20 2003, 03:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--MedHead+Feb 20 2003, 12:15 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MedHead @ Feb 20 2003, 12:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>if they can afford the internet connection monthly fee, they can certainly afford to purchase a better graphics card.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ehh.. not true
im only 16 and my dad pays for my internet... so yeah i asked him for a new comp/ gfx card cuz mine is a **** geforce 2 32mb or 64... most likely 32...
and yeah.. well i COULD spend my own money... but hell id rather spend it hanging out wif friends.. go drinkin.. go chill wif some gals <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Then that's your choice, to have a social life instead of having a 'decent' computer. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Besideswhich, a GF2 is perfectly capable of playing NS with no problems. Much less the exaggerated 'It slows down 10-20fps!!!!11!!oneone' stuff.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Feb 20 2003, 09:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Feb 20 2003, 09:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No amount of skill can overcome blocked vision. The other senses can only go so far to aid. This is why everyone s calling it "capping skill". Think of a boxer who flinches...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. It's called 'situational awareness'. You KNOW how they're going to move. You've watched them. You've played against similar in the past. And in that half-second (if <b>that</b> long) they aren't going to get totally out of your view range unless you're charging around in circles biting at air. You don't have to see, to know where they'll be. Sure, it's a skill cap on <b>TWITCH-GAMING</b>, but that isn't what NS is all about. Anticipation. Tactics. Being able to move properly. On that aspect, there is no skill cap.. and you can go as high as you want. You are not a living aimbot. The only ones that the bite model limits are the 'living aimbots'. Turn on brain. Don't just use sensory perception to play the game... THINK. Use eyes ad ears, not just eyes.
Now if only v1.1 could come with a USB/serial 'remote feedback device', consisting of an aluminum baseball bat and some servos, to SMACK those who whine about their favorite cheat being gone.
SoulSkorpion, thats my opinion as well. If you don't like it go lerk or fade. Simple. You pay res for better attacks, including the vision component.
Ruri, it blocks your vision for less then a second. If this is a major problem, you don't possess the skill required to overcome it.
How does it cap skill ? I know the good skulk players from the bad on my regular server. If it truely capped skill, they're be some bad players and everyone else would be performing the same. Which isn't the case.
/me still waits for thread to get locked for being off-topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Feb 20 2003, 05:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Feb 20 2003, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>People will remain angry if it is not changed. Noone will be angry if it is changed.</b> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ill be angry if they change it.
Oh and please note: typing entire paragraphs in bold does not make your posts any more persuading.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Feb 20 2003, 05:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Feb 20 2003, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ALL the top clans are annoyed with the skulk bite model, and a significant amount (if not most) of the rest feel the same. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG WE MUST CHANGE IT NOW BECUZ THIS GUY KNOWS ALL THE CLANS AND THEY HAVE TEH HAET FOR US D00D!!!
For crap's sake people, calm down. When you make posts like this where you pull out imaginary statistics and speak for the whole world, all you're doing is becoming the Geraldo Rivera of the NS forums. Please stop it, if only to prevent yourself from looking like a goon.
I still have not seen any people post a good alternative model to what is in there so far in any of these posts. I will say that everyone please stop spamming about visibility issues with Marines and Aliens in NS - there are designs underway to alleviate some of the perceived problems. Do NOT ask me for details, as I will become very cross with you. A girl has to keep her secrets...
For me, personally, the teeth have a barely noticeable impact on the fps (that's barely noticeable on the fps counter, no visible effect at all when just playing). Besides, some screenshots here even show the detailed version of netgraph, which probably is the biggest slowdown you can get in HL. If you have that monstrosity on, don't complain about fps. For those who think they need it always on, here's how you can toggle between some variants (from my autoexec.cfg): <!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1--> // netgraph alias vienetgraph vienetgraph0 alias vienetgraph0 "net_graph 0; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph1" alias vienetgraph1 "net_graph 1; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph2" alias vienetgraph2 "net_graph 2; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph3" alias vienetgraph3 "net_graph 3; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph0" bind "j" "vienetgraph" <!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2--> The incorrect spelling (w) is intentional to prevent conflicts with other stuff that might use correct spelling <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Something similar could be done for other stuff, but to prevent an escalation of hostilities I won't post sample code for a certain other popular variable <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (not that you could't find it on any mod site anyway).
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> - back to topic However, what is a problem is that the bite animation stays closed longer at low fps. I usually get slightly less than 30 fps, but on caged it's more like 10 or even lower. The bite is MUCH more annoying at low fps. I suppose most 100fps players aren't bothered much by it, just like most 100 fps players really love the jetpack while low fps players barely get off the ground (according to the bite model rationale here, since NS was coded that way it obviously must have been intended that way. Yeah, right).
Also, the argument that you'd have to have a very bad PC to make HL run badly isn't really relevant. My PC runs HL just fine (P3 450, 384MB, TNT2 Ultra for those interested). NS maps, however, are more complex and slow things down more than HL maps. The engine alone, isolated from the maps, is irrelevant. They must be considered together. I'm pretty sure my PC could run Doom 3 at over 100fps if the map is just a box with a single texture. But real Doom 3 maps? Forget it.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Pssh. There aren't any vis problems with the firing sprite/bite models. Just people unhappy that they'll have to adapt to playing the game as it was intended.
PS: Any plans to lock the muzzleflash sprite as well, when model consistency is turned on?
Ruri: Talesin and MonsE already punched some holes in your "skill cap" argument and the "ALL THE TOP CLANS sumthin sumthin"...I´ll limit myself to your "clever" use of drunken logic:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's something funny. People are arguing to CHANGE/REMOVE the model. Some people against this say they want to keep the existing model because they like it. If the opposition really DO want to keep the model in, then make it a client side official option. A checkbox saying "Turn skulk teeth off". That way they get to keep their atmosphere. The thing is, almost everyone would turn the teeth off. Thats funny, why is everyone checking that box if they said they want to keep the existing model?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Goshdarnit, that smilie you added actually made it seem like you´d come to some brilliant conclusion...you almost had me there!
Gee, Sir, why do they check the box??? Ummm, what, they actually WANT a level playing field?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> They don´t like to play at a disadvantage???<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->:0 You, of course, aleady know this - but you hope that noone will notice your self-serving and obviously flawed argument. Try this one, Ruri:
Some people don´t like to play with aimbots. But let´s make aimbots "1" by default, and have people check a box if they want it disabled. OMG! WHY ARE THEM PEOPLE CHECKING TEH BOX IF TEHY SAID THEY DIDN´T LIKE AIMBOTS!!! OMG!!!11!!
I´d second that request by Talesin for a USB trout-slapping device or equivalent.
Before I step up to the plate to bat, I put a few weights on my bat and swing around a bit. The weights trick me and make me think the bat is lighter so I can swing harder and faster, increasing my chances of hitting a homerun. The guy on the other team see's this, but DOES NOT do it. His chances of hitting a homerun are decreased. He says i am exploiting.
The option is in front of your face, some people choose not to do it. That doesnt mean the people who do are exploiting anything. The skulk bite model was designed to cap someone's skill, when skulks are really supposed to be melee masters. Without carapace, they die so fast anyway (9 bullets), so why do they have to be blinded when they try to attack someone? Some people like it, some people dont. I say leave it the way it is and give users the option to turn it off. Either that or the hive sight idea....where each level of hive site makes the teeth more translucent.
Here is something else for you to think about. You say turning the models off gives players an "unfair advantage" (bottom line, I lose A LOT of information on-screen when those models are off), but am I at unfair advantage that I change my mouse sensitivity? The default is 2 ...I change mine to 10, so now I can snap to targets more quickly with less mousepad then with the deafault value. Exploiting? Its all basic half-life console commands. So where is the line between exploiting and well......common knowledge?
Comments
A good player can do good with or without it. So would that player be exploiting if he in his mind not even seeing the weapon model. Y'know that zen like state that makes you feel like a bhudda.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->but enabling the viewmodel for everyone doesn't help people who can't afford a top-of-the-line system. As someone stated earlier, the model can knock your FPS down by 10-20, and can take longer to animate at slow speeds.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And as I stated earlier, if your computer cannot handle a 4 year old game engine, perhaps computer gaming is not worth your time or money.
<b>Moon:</b>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If it were possible to alter NS to include a mini game of PAC-MAN in the bottom right hand corner of my screen, to play while I was waiting to respawn for example, and this was never shared with anyone else nobody would be any the wiser. Clearly this has no game-impact for anyone else, and yet anyone I killed would be the victim of an "exploiter".
Now Imagine that instead of PAC-MAN I enable something on my client that adds to the atmosphere of the game for me and perhaps boosts my fps somewhat. I'm now somewhat more of an efficient killer but nothing dramatically changes i.e. maybe my team works well together and we win as a result, or maybe we all suck and end up losing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Look at the leap of logic there, however. A mini-game, which only serves to distract, isn't similar to r_drawviewmodel. As others have stated, it affects the skill of the player, allowing them to see more than they normally would see. This is not a mini game. It's a setting which gives them more of an advantage in game. The same could be said for a wallhack. Those pesky walls are so annoying. Let's get rid of them! And hey, it boosts my fps too!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you believe that having a superior system (internet connection etc) to give a player an edge is "wrong" ? I'm assuming the answer is going to be "no" here. Given this fact, don't you think it's a little selfish then to automatically deny someone the chance to be more competitive when they use a PAC-MAN like exploit and genuinely can't afford an upgrade for whatever reason. Or maybe they are a victim of being in an area where certain broad-band technologies are not possible to have.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Please read my message above. Just because it's available, does not mean it's not a cheat. <b>And</b> as I said earlier, <b>if they can afford the internet connection monthly fee, they can certainly afford to purchase a better graphics card.</b> If they cannot, then <b>do not cheat to be able to play the game.</b> If you cannot handle the load of the game, do not ruin it for others so that you can have fun.
There have been multiple occurences where users with good computers will purposely set up their Half-Life configuration to act 'lagged' so that they get better use of the netcode, jetpacks, etc. This would be another one of them.
And besides, who ever heard of transparent teeth?!
Seriously. The mouth isn't a HUGE number of polys. If anything, a single turret would lag the machine more. Unless they're using a TBR-based card... in which case it would SPEED THE FRAMERATE UP.
Yeah but this will happen no matter what they do. It just might become less accessable and much less desireable to the average player. Less temptation to remove something that is seen as an annoyance or obstruction. People who really want to cheat/exploit will find a way to do it no matter what, it is not a good idea to try and cater to those types.
It's not an OPTION to remove the skulk bite in NS, it's a recognised exploit. My mate runs NS on an old Pentium 300 with a geforce 1. Does he find it "impossible to play" because of skulk bites? No sir, he plays as well as anyone I've met. Sure if you try running NS on a 486 with 8 megs of RAM it's going to lag. The devs are not going to remove something as fundamental as the skulk bite because lower end systems experiance minor drops in FPS <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wasn't deliberately meant to block your view in the beginning. However, because it obviously hindered your gameplay a lot, they had to balance it that way. At this point, it is deliberately meant to block your view, because doing so balances the game. Sure it wasn't the original intention, but at this point it is part of the balance.
<!--QuoteBegin--SoBe.Dragon+Feb 19 2003, 07:03 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SoBe.Dragon @ Feb 19 2003, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->let me put it this way...play a game with the models on, then play with them off....then try to go back, heh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are enjoying your own score at the expense of other's enjoyment. You are ruining games by unbalancing the teams. Yet you feel it is not a good enough reason to change back? You are a very dishonorable person. I hope to never see your name in a game again.
Moon:
If it were possible to alter NS to include a mini game of PAC-MAN in the bottom right hand corner of my screen, to play while I was waiting to respawn for example, and this was never shared with anyone else nobody would be any the wiser. Clearly this has no game-impact for anyone else, and yet anyone I killed would be the victim of an "exploiter".
Now Imagine that instead of PAC-MAN I enable something on my client that adds to the atmosphere of the game for me and perhaps boosts my fps somewhat. I'm now somewhat more of an efficient killer but nothing dramatically changes i.e. maybe my team works well together and we win as a result, or maybe we all suck and end up losing.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
<b>MedHead</b>
Look at the leap of logic there, however. A mini-game, which only serves to distract, isn't similar to r_drawviewmodel. As others have stated, it affects the skill of the player, allowing them to see more than they normally would see. This is not a mini game. It's a setting which gives them more of an advantage in game. The same could be said for a wallhack. Those pesky walls are so annoying. Let's get rid of them! And hey, it boosts my fps too!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think the major sticking point we have is just _how much of an advantage_ is truly gained by switching off those chompers. I believe that that advantage is minimal whereas you do not. Hey, fair enough...everyone is entitled to their opinion. As for my logic, perhaps somewhat of a leap I'll grant you. However don't you think that going from a situation where you can see clearly what you're trying to bite versus seeing through walls is somewhat of a leap as well <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> ?
At any rate, I think the future of NS is bright and I will certainly continue to play it whatever comes of this whole issue.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Someone Who Cares</b>
It wasn't deliberately meant to block your view in the beginning. However, because it obviously hindered your gameplay a lot, they had to balance it that way. At this point, it is deliberately meant to block your view, because doing so balances the game. Sure it wasn't the original intention, but at this point it is part of the balance
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for answering my question.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Obviously these 11 pages of post means someone cares...
On to less idiotic matters.
Someone up there, I think Talesin was talking about how the Lerk bite model is easier to use than the Skulk bite model. I thought a little about this and I'm agreeing with it. It feels more "bouncy" as whoever put it, and maybe the skulk model could be changed like that?
I think what "bouncy" means really, is that the teeth don't come so far together, and spring back up to the normal position faster than on the Skulk.
(taps Narf on the shoulder, and holds up extra-large point <sarcasm> </sarcasm> tags around the surprise in that previous post) Trust me, I'm firm in the belief that anyone who is playing NS and thinks that turning off r_drawviewmodels is the difference between 'playable' and 'unplayable' is just trying to rationalize their favorite cheat as something other than a way to get around a balancing factor of the game. I don't like cheaters. I don't like exploiters. And I'm quite vocal about it, considering the apparent number of people who have no problem with a lapse in those particular principles.
Duff-Man: Wasn't me talking about using the Lerk bite model.. I'm actually perfectly happy with the Skulk bite as it is now. The only thing I'd change would be to increase the FOV back to 120, so it'd be harder to 'lose' a target you're biting at just because they crack-bounced off to the side.
Actually no. I can afford the £14.99 for my 'net connection, but I can't afford the £180 for a new GFX card.
Thankfully, it doesn't affect my FPS much, so I don't care.
Some people in quake3 mods do this and there is no mod or mod league anywhere in quake3 that has a problem with anyone doing that. But this isn't quake3 so I can't be super vehement about that.
Some options: Make the animation faster while slowing the client side rate of fire (but server side stays unchanged). Make the bite transparent. Have a chamber upgrade make the bite transparent (adv hive sight alrdy makes things like this). Remove it completely, in clan play aliens already are at a disadvantage.
Here is the problem at hand. <b>People will remain angry if it is not changed. Noone will be angry if it is changed.</b> At the most ppl will be mad for a week since the "whiners" got their way. Then all will be forgotten. I mean how could there be complaints after the model is changed? The benefits far outweight the drawbacks.
Here's something funny. <b>People are arguing to CHANGE/REMOVE the model. Some people against this say they want to keep the existing model because they like it. If the opposition really DO want to keep the model in, then make it a client side official option. A checkbox saying "Turn skulk teeth off". That way they get to keep their atmosphere. The thing is, almost everyone would turn the teeth off. Thats funny, why is everyone checking that box if they said they want to keep the existing model? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> </b>
Lastly, people will alwas find a way to remove the skulk bite if it is official or not. Don't give them the chance to, just change it for everyone. NS is the first game where there is such a large diff bewteen exploits and hacks. I know MANY people who use exploits but ARE NOT HACKERS. There are people that exploit, but do not hack, I'm not suggesting you give everyone aim bots and wall hacks.
EDIT: Oh wanna add this. "Capping skill" is just disgusting. Think about it for a bit and you'll see why. I play games competitively and enjoy myself. When someone limits how well I am able to do this, it makes it less fun for me since I always feel like I COULD have done better. Make other changes but do not handicap the tools at my disposal.
ehh.. not true
im only 16 and my dad pays for my internet... so yeah i asked him for a new comp/ gfx card cuz mine is a **** geforce 2 32mb or 64... most likely 32...
and yeah.. well i COULD spend my own money... but hell id rather spend it hanging out wif friends.. go drinkin.. go chill wif some gals <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
*The reason I like the skulk bite anim the way it is, and don't like the idea of (with a cvar or otherwise) removing or replacing it because it adds that little bit more skill required to play the game. I'll play anything that demands skill rather than luck or a high value in some arbitrary character stat, and this adds more skill. Learn to deal with it. It makes you a better melee fighter anyway, to feel where your target is without perfect visual contact. Use the force, Luke!
*The Lerk anim's also easier because the jaw is thinner. The skulk bite blocks the periphery of your vision, the Lerk doesn't. Personally, I think that's just one of the advantages you spend your 33 res for <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
*About the increased FOV: When I used to play TFC as a spy I tried increasing my FOV past 90 to make it easier to follow my targets in a melee. It didn't work because everything was too small. I couldn't see where I was going. Making an alias to switch my FOV to wider when I pulled out my knife also didn't work. I really think it's fine as it is - when you're good enough you can feel your target based on sounds, and glimpses, rather than constant eye contact. I'd also like to retain what distance vision the skulk has. Seriously, it would be a lot harder to pick out enemies crouched in corners.
Come to think of it, it might be a viable replacement for Advanced Hivesight: when you hit your flashlight key your vision goes fishbowl as well as lighting up enemies <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
ehh.. not true
im only 16 and my dad pays for my internet... so yeah i asked him for a new comp/ gfx card cuz mine is a **** geforce 2 32mb or 64... most likely 32...
and yeah.. well i COULD spend my own money... but hell id rather spend it hanging out wif friends.. go drinkin.. go chill wif some gals <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then that's your choice, to have a social life instead of having a 'decent' computer. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> Besideswhich, a GF2 is perfectly capable of playing NS with no problems. Much less the exaggerated 'It slows down 10-20fps!!!!11!!oneone' stuff.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ruri+Feb 20 2003, 09:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ruri @ Feb 20 2003, 09:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No amount of skill can overcome blocked vision. The other senses can only go so far to aid. This is why everyone s calling it "capping skill". Think of a boxer who flinches...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wrong. It's called 'situational awareness'. You KNOW how they're going to move. You've watched them. You've played against similar in the past. And in that half-second (if <b>that</b> long) they aren't going to get totally out of your view range unless you're charging around in circles biting at air.
You don't have to see, to know where they'll be. Sure, it's a skill cap on <b>TWITCH-GAMING</b>, but that isn't what NS is all about. Anticipation. Tactics. Being able to move properly. On that aspect, there is no skill cap.. and you can go as high as you want. You are not a living aimbot. The only ones that the bite model limits are the 'living aimbots'. Turn on brain. Don't just use sensory perception to play the game... THINK. Use eyes ad ears, not just eyes.
Now if only v1.1 could come with a USB/serial 'remote feedback device', consisting of an aluminum baseball bat and some servos, to SMACK those who whine about their favorite cheat being gone.
Ruri, it blocks your vision for less then a second. If this is a major problem, you don't possess the skill required to overcome it.
How does it cap skill ? I know the good skulk players from the bad on my regular server. If it truely capped skill, they're be some bad players and everyone else would be performing the same. Which isn't the case.
/me still waits for thread to get locked for being off-topic <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ill be angry if they change it.
Oh and please note: typing entire paragraphs in bold does not make your posts any more persuading.
OMG WE MUST CHANGE IT NOW BECUZ THIS GUY KNOWS ALL THE CLANS AND THEY HAVE TEH HAET FOR US D00D!!!
For crap's sake people, calm down. When you make posts like this where you pull out imaginary statistics and speak for the whole world, all you're doing is becoming the Geraldo Rivera of the NS forums. Please stop it, if only to prevent yourself from looking like a goon.
I still have not seen any people post a good alternative model to what is in there so far in any of these posts. I will say that everyone please stop spamming about visibility issues with Marines and Aliens in NS - there are designs underway to alleviate some of the perceived problems. Do NOT ask me for details, as I will become very cross with you. A girl has to keep her secrets...
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
For those who think they need it always on, here's how you can toggle between some variants (from my autoexec.cfg):
<!--c1--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->
// netgraph
alias vienetgraph vienetgraph0
alias vienetgraph0 "net_graph 0; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph1"
alias vienetgraph1 "net_graph 1; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph2"
alias vienetgraph2 "net_graph 2; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph3"
alias vienetgraph3 "net_graph 3; alias vienetgraph vienetgraph0"
bind "j" "vienetgraph"
<!--c2--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
The incorrect spelling (w) is intentional to prevent conflicts with other stuff that might use correct spelling <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Something similar could be done for other stuff, but to prevent an escalation of hostilities I won't post sample code for a certain other popular variable <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> (not that you could't find it on any mod site anyway).
<!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> - back to topic
However, what is a problem is that the bite animation stays closed longer at low fps. I usually get slightly less than 30 fps, but on caged it's more like 10 or even lower. The bite is MUCH more annoying at low fps. I suppose most 100fps players aren't bothered much by it, just like most 100 fps players really love the jetpack while low fps players barely get off the ground (according to the bite model rationale here, since NS was coded that way it obviously must have been intended that way. Yeah, right).
Also, the argument that you'd have to have a very bad PC to make HL run badly isn't really relevant. My PC runs HL just fine (P3 450, 384MB, TNT2 Ultra for those interested). NS maps, however, are more complex and slow things down more than HL maps. The engine alone, isolated from the maps, is irrelevant. They must be considered together. I'm pretty sure my PC could run Doom 3 at over 100fps if the map is just a box with a single texture. But real Doom 3 maps? Forget it.
PS: Any plans to lock the muzzleflash sprite as well, when model consistency is turned on?
Talesin and MonsE already punched some holes in your "skill cap" argument and the "ALL THE TOP CLANS sumthin sumthin"...I´ll limit myself to your "clever" use of drunken logic:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Here's something funny. People are arguing to CHANGE/REMOVE the model. Some people against this say they want to keep the existing model because they like it. If the opposition really DO want to keep the model in, then make it a client side official option. A checkbox saying "Turn skulk teeth off". That way they get to keep their atmosphere. The thing is, almost everyone would turn the teeth off. Thats funny, why is everyone checking that box if they said they want to keep the existing model?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Goshdarnit, that smilie you added actually made it seem like you´d come to some brilliant conclusion...you almost had me there!
Gee, Sir, why do they check the box??? Ummm, what, they actually WANT a level playing field?<!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> They don´t like to play at a disadvantage???<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->:0
You, of course, aleady know this - but you hope that noone will notice your self-serving and obviously flawed argument. Try this one, Ruri:
Some people don´t like to play with aimbots. But let´s make aimbots "1" by default, and have people check a box if they want it disabled. OMG! WHY ARE THEM PEOPLE CHECKING TEH BOX IF TEHY SAID THEY DIDN´T LIKE AIMBOTS!!! OMG!!!11!!
I´d second that request by Talesin for a USB trout-slapping device or equivalent.
Generally disabled though.
Before I step up to the plate to bat, I put a few weights on my bat and swing around a bit. The weights trick me and make me think the bat is lighter so I can swing harder and faster, increasing my chances of hitting a homerun. The guy on the other team see's this, but DOES NOT do it. His chances of hitting a homerun are decreased. He says i am exploiting.
The option is in front of your face, some people choose not to do it. That doesnt mean the people who do are exploiting anything. The skulk bite model was designed to cap someone's skill, when skulks are really supposed to be melee masters. Without carapace, they die so fast anyway (9 bullets), so why do they have to be blinded when they try to attack someone? Some people like it, some people dont. I say leave it the way it is and give users the option to turn it off. Either that or the hive sight idea....where each level of hive site makes the teeth more translucent.
Here is something else for you to think about. You say turning the models off gives players an "unfair advantage" (bottom line, I lose A LOT of information on-screen when those models are off), but am I at unfair advantage that I change my mouse sensitivity? The default is 2 ...I change mine to 10, so now I can snap to targets more quickly with less mousepad then with the deafault value. Exploiting? Its all basic half-life console commands. So where is the line between exploiting and well......common knowledge?