My Thoughts About Ns

tseepra · February 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">Just read it...</div> Ok, up untill a few weeks ago, I was getting bored on NS. Really, most of the game were with the get 2 hives and tech up tactic. If anybody used anything different they were accused of being newbs or stupid. So how fun is is to play the same kind of game over and over again. Also, the commanders who I played with (with a few exceptions) usually got one hive then utterly lost, or got 2 hives then lost them, and utterly lost. After playing so many losing marine games I wondered why people use this tactic all the time.

So a few weeks ago, I remembered a tactic which almost everyone knows, but I had never seen it in-game, the HMG rush. So I got a friend and in ns_tanith we tried the HMG rush. It was a little hard on a pub, because of the newb, and idiot commnts flying around. But we utterly destroyed the alien team, they had no chance. So I thougt it was a fluke, so played again and it worked again. And they were the funnest game of NS I had ever played.

Next day I try the hmg, jp rush, it worked. Then the ha, hmg rush, it worked. Then the ip rush, a little hard, but worked. Although they don't always work they are alot funner then getting 2 hives and sitting on them untill we lose them. I hope some other commders start using these tactics on Finnish servers.

Also with the cloaking changes in 1.04, playing as aliens has never been so rich. Sensory on pubs happens almost every tenth game. And movement sometimes. Although I don't really see much point in movement with 1 hive.

What I'm trying to say is that I hope other NS players start varying their tactics so that we get a more versatile and exciting game. This is why CS sucks, there is only one goal, KILL. And i'd like to ask am I the only one who was getting bored of NS? Or is it just the servers I play on? Any other comments?

Vash · February 2003

You must have been playing some sad aliens if an HMG rush worked. LA/HMG = Slow moving food. I've mowed down about 6 la/hmg as one skulk, i didn't even have carapace. The only time it'll work is on a huge server, like 22 people servers, cuz that many marines with HMG's is just stupidly unstoppable.

SoBe_Dragon · February 2003

I agree. The game is becoming far too routine. Most games lack variety. On the sever that I play on, everything has been done on every single map. So yeah, NS is getting a little boring. I take the time I have now on honoing my leap & bite tactic.

tlarmon · February 2003

I think the JP rush works the best, personally. JP+HMG against lvl1 aliens is about as easy as you can get. If you die against lvl1 aliens with a JP and HMG then you don't deserve to respawn <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

coil · February 2003

All of these tactics work. The problem is that people become so obsessed with WINNING at all costs that they pick the most effective and never deviate. I hope we will be able to look at this in 1.1, and arrange something in the way of counters to various strategies, to force the marines to improvise a bit more.

NegaBenji · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (tseepra @ Feb 14 2003, 06:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Also with the cloaking changes in 1.04, playing as aliens has never been so rich. Sensory on pubs happens almost every tenth game. And movement sometimes. Although I don't really see much point in movement with 1 hive.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Heh, I haven't seen this. In fact, in one game I'd built a few res towers, and a few of us had decided sensory was the way to go for a change. And some guy actually evolved to gorge, built a def chamber in the middle of nowhere, and then EVOLVED BACK to skulk just to get his way. He didn't even have the decency to limit the evolution waste to 13 instead of 17.

n00b101 · February 2003

Yeah maybe its becomming a bit repetitive, but I stopped playing 101% NS. Variety helps a lot, now I enjoy more my NS games <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Oh yeah and nothing can beat the ol' days, where almost no-one knew what to do and had to fight for his own survival <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

tseepra · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You must have been playing some sad aliens if an HMG rush worked. LA/HMG = Slow moving food. I've mowed down about 6 la/hmg as one skulk, i didn't even have carapace. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

It was on a 16 player server, and we had some skilled marines. And a marine who has a HMG, and a armour upgade, against a one hive skulk is almost unstoppable. All you have to do is point and click, the spray and clip size of the HMG is a deadly combo. I think you were playing against a really unexperienced marine team.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>All of these tactics work. The problem is that people become so obsessed with WINNING at all costs that they pick the most effective and never deviate. I hope we will be able to look at this in 1.1, and arrange something in the way of counters to various strategies, to force the marines to improvise a bit more. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I wish aliens will have a chance to do something with their resources against the 2 hive lockdown. And different strategies start poping up on 1.1 servers. But right now on 1.04 the 2 hive lockdown is the only exeptable tactic, unless you go comm and show them other tactics work too. Ofcource you rushes don't allways work, its about 50/50, but loosing on a rush is alot more fun then winning with a 2 hive lockdown.

RyoOhki · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It was on a 16 player server, and we had some skilled marines. And a marine who has a HMG, and a armour upgade, against a one hive skulk is almost unstoppable.</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

Err...not QUITE unstoppable. The armour upgrade makes it harder, but skulks will munch through HMG/LA no problem at all. If they're coming at you from one direction down an open corridor then you'll mow them down, sure, but all it takes is one dropping from a vent and *Splat* You'll go down damn fast. I can only assume no-one ambushed you...

Wildcard · February 2003

I agree pretty much all the games now consist of aliens doing d/m/s and marines jp rushing....so much infact that im getting to be decent at healspraying down jp'ers....seriously. People are too set in their ways and its only going to hurt them when 1.1 comes out...yes m/d/s has it merits whether people want to admitt it or not...and no a carapace skulk is not godly. Full carapace stops 2 extra pistol hits...thats it for gods sake, even a new player can hit a skulk with a pistol. Blah just so annoying that people are afraid of change.

tseepra · February 2003

Well basically the aliens wern't expecting a hmg rush, so we didn't get ambushed, it was a pub. And then with a medpacks a marine can easily take 4-5 bites. But if your team dosen't listen to you and runs off in every direction alone with a HMG, then you lost already. And I did say <b>almost</b>.

Shockeh · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And some guy actually evolved to gorge, built a def chamber in the middle of nowhere, and then EVOLVED BACK to skulk just to get his way. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

ARRRGH! I hate these people, I meet them ALL. THE. TIME! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

Cyborgguineapig · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Shockwave @ Feb 15 2003, 01:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>And some guy actually evolved to gorge, built a def chamber in the middle of nowhere, and then EVOLVED BACK to skulk just to get his way. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

ARRRGH! I hate these people, I meet them ALL. THE. TIME! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
I second that. Nothing is more aggrivating then your teamates not trusting your gorge ability and gorging just to serve themselves quicker. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'>

Purelace · February 2003

No, what's really aggravating is someone saying "yeah I know how to gorge, I'm good at it", then building 4 rts and a second hive before even thinking about putting up DCs.

coil · February 2003

What's wrong, not good enough at skulking to survive without carapace? (;

I often delay upgrades till post-hive. I also like going sensory or movement first. The only real mistake you mentioned was 4 RTs... you really only need 2-3 in addition to the first one.

Propain · February 2003

I think the reason why everyone likes carapace so much is because of how annoying it is when you turn a corner into a marine looking right at you, and kills you before you even turn around. Plus people are impatient, and would rather run at a guy from 15 feet away being shot at, than wait for him to come to you and jump him.
Although, I've learned that the best skulks not only have patience, they also know the maps, and where to run. There are some very decieving areas of the maps where a skulk can be seen and quickly get behind the marine that thinks they have them cornered.

Pege · February 2003

I hope they make skulk health and armor bigger in the beginning so skulks won't be simple cannon fodder without carapace. I also hope they reduce the effectiveness of carapace so the skulks won't become insta-gib machines to unupgraded marines the minute they get lvl 2-3 carapace (like it is now). Rounds seem to be divided into two "times": first is the marine time when marines are superior to skulks and have to try to get 2 hives quickly. Then comes the alien time when aliens have lvl 2-3 carapace and if marines don't have 2 hives yet, they're going to have a nearly impossible mission (in publics anyway) to try and get a second hive without any alien noticing and asking for the entire alien team to slaughter the marines. I think I'm a fairly good shot, but I still have a lot of trouble taking out strafing and jumping lvl 3 carapaced skulks. And lets face it: maps aren't exactly wide outdoor plains, but tight corridors with lots of 90 degree turns ideal for skulk hiding. Trying to get a long range fight (ideal for marines) is pretty hard <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>.

Summary of my thoughts/observations:
Things now:
-Unupgraded <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> <<< Unupgraded LA/LMG <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>
-Carapaced <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> >>> Unupgraded LA/LMG <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>
-Carapaced <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif'> >> Upgraded LA/LMG <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'>

-Add balance and allow more varied strategies by reducing carapace's effectiveness and by increasing basic skulk health/armor.
-Skulks at the beginning should die in 12-14 shots by unupgraded LMGs and lvl 3 carapaced skulks in 15-17 shots.
-This might work for publics, ain't saying anything about clan matches.

P.S. I didn't want to create a huge "balance whine"-post so please don't read it that way.

Wildcard · February 2003

food for thought...carapace only makes it so a skulk can take 2 more pistol bullets.

tseepra · February 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Wildcard @ Feb 16 2003, 12:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> food for thought...carapace only makes it so a skulk can take 2 more pistol bullets.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
BUT, if I remember correctly, a unupgaded skulk can take 9 unupgraded lmg shots, and a carpaced skulk can take 19. Thats over 100% more. (I might be wrong about the shots, but close)

My Thoughts About Ns

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