Update Package Idea to Deepen the Sense of Deep
Quiet_Blowfish
Join Date: 2017-09-11 Member: 232955Members
Join Date: 2017-09-11 Member: 232955Members
Without doubt this is already a very fine game, and very close to the immersive underwater experience we might have hoped the Bioshock franchise to develop into.
However, right now there's not a lot to suggest the full crushing hostility of the fearsome Deep. Bases and subs can be accessed just by jumping in through windows, and the player can casually skinnydip out of the PRAWN suit at 1700m.
On the other hand, maintaining an ease of game-play is very important. For instance it's great to furtively dash in and out of the Seamoth, all paranoid about predators, without having to wait on airlocks re-pressurising. For the most extreme realism, who'd want the drag of simulating realistic decompression stops? Nevertheless a browse around Wikipedia turned up some pretty interesting techniques actually used to live and work at depth. Very helpful, but I wouldn't urge to limit game mechanics to just these.
So here's a pitch for a update package that might achieve an engaging balance between credibility and gameplay, while still staying fairly light on dev costs.
SOFT DIVE SUITS:
A new mechanic on these would trigger some interesting consequences throughout the entire game.
Currently there are 4 types of 'soft' dive suits (AEP Suit, Still-suit, Radiation Suit and Reinforced Suit). These could each be assigned a particular 'recommended depth rating'. Once a diver exceeds his suit's depth rating he'd begin to take a very low rate of damage per minute. However for every added 10 meters deeper still that rate would be increased. The lightest suit could perhaps be rated down to 400m, and other suits deeper still.
For the sturdiest 'Reinforced Suit' I'd choose an 800m rating. This would pair it well with deepest Seamoth use, almost right down to the sub's max crush-depth of 900m. Now 800-900m becomes an interesting transitional zone - the Seamoth pilot can can forage and make repairs, but staying healthy becomes an increasing challenge, prompting the urge to start suiting up in the mighty PRAWN. Deeper still, beyond 1000m or so, swimming excursions outside a base or a Cyclops become very brief or very fatal. Now you're really starting to feel some the tons of water above you.
SEAMOTH:
This little puppy (guppy?) makes for nice agile gameplay. For increased game-immersion the Seamoth could be shown to be a 'wet sub' (a sub with a cockpit that freely fills with water). This means the player can still quickly exit and enter at depth - but the implication is that a Seamoth pilot may still be vulnerable to pressure damage - depending on their depth and choice of dive suit. As for the luxury of breathing, a returning blue-faced diver would be seen to automatically switch to the Seamoth's built-in rebreather hose.
PRAWN SUIT:
Currently this does not feel like the mighty suit of deep-sea armour it really deserves to be. However, soft-suit damage mechanics suggested would go far towards fixing this. To this I'd add a measured pinch of realism...
In contrast to the Seamoth's wet sub', the PRAWN would be a 'single atmosphere dry sub' - (it's always filled with air at pressure equal to surface air pressure). Once inside, the player is safely immune to all pressure damage. However there should be a trade-off - this tough little clam should be a little more difficult to get into. Like a real-life diving hard-suit the PRAWN's hatch shouldn't open underwater. This'd mean no more exit from a submerged PRAWN to swim blithely about in the crushing abyss. Instead, either a sea-base's moonpool or the Cyclops' vehicle docking port must be used for underwater PRAWN access. Naturally you'd still want to build and repair things at great depth (>900m). This means the need for two new PRAWN modules: the 'PRAWN Habitat Builder Arm' and the 'PRAWN Repair Tool Arm'.
So you can't get out to fiddle about with the PRAWN anymore? Now the Cyclops then becomes much more valuable as mobile support for PRAWN's repairs and module swapping.
CYCLOPS:
Currently this magnificent monster seems all too dispensable for about 95 percent of the game. The updates I've suggested so far would begin to change that. Just a couple more tweaks could make it feel even more of an deep-sea explorer's sanctuary.
Like the PRAWN, the Cyclops is also clearly a 'single atmosphere dry sub'. However, this one can be entered at depth, in two obvious ways. First by a swimmer via its 'Wet Airlock'. There already is one conveniently built into its bow (pointy end). This could be made to work very simply: You'd click on the hatch, be moved into the flooded airlock, which then quickly drains before the inner bulkhead door unlocks. Click on the inner door and you're moved on through, with it closing behind you. Otherwise the Cyclops could of course still be entered via its vehicle dock using a Seamoth or PRAWN. However, now the deep is more hostile, this dock needs to be tweaked to allow full access to the upgrade modules and storage bins of docked vehicles.
HABITATS:
Currently jumping in through a window, while convenient, is a continual gameworld immersion-killer. But some real-world techs might help here. Turns out there are 3 main categories of undersea habitats:
• ambient pressure base
• hybrid base
• single atmosphere base
Shallow water habitats could be 'ambient pressurised' (internal air pressure = outside water pressure). Quick entry is still possible, but always from below - either via the Moonpool ladders, or else by a new habitat item the 'Floor Hatch' (of just the kind featured in Lifepod 5). But no more dodgy jumping in through the windows!
Getting deeper the limitation of building more ambient pressure bases starts to get apparent. Below at least 400m any householder would be experiencing periodic pressure damage (see soft-suits above). Building a 'hybrid base' now begins to look a lot more attractive.
A mid-depth hybrid base has it's main structure kept at surface atmosphere pressure, providing a sanctuary from any ambient pressure damage. Its Moon-pool, on the other hand must, must of course stay at the higher ambient pressure to keep it from flooding (yup, so in deeper bases, and a player lingering in the Moonpool could still sustain a degree of pressure damage). Naturally, player movement between the Moon-pool compartment and the main structure requires a new compartment type - the 'Dry Airlock'.How about external entry to the main structure by a diver? Like for the Cyclops, a functional 'Wet Airlock' is needed. For those finding that airlock use gets all too tedious, the Precursor forcefield entrances might be made a discoverable tech mid/late game.
The very deepest bases (say >1500m?) would need to be built as 'single atmosphere habitats'. This crushing depth here are beyond the useful limits of a moonpool - its ambient pressure is now just too damaging for puny humans (see soft-suit section above). So the deepest bases must now be made as fully watertight bunkers. How to get in when it's too deep for swimmers to knock on the door? Your Cyclops now becomes essential: First dock your PRAWN in the Cyclops. Second, exit the Cyclops bow hatch to directly enter your base. Yes, this means development of the long-awaited Cyclops docking point to link it with a base. Now you're feeling like very small bug in a can beneath a very large boot. Great.
DEVELOPMENT:
The guts of all this could be achieved with a simple algorithm set, using the new diving 'Suit Rating' values with the Depth variable to calculate periodic reductions to the player's Health. If this calculation is made only once per minute then it should cause negligible effects on frame-rate.
Three new brief Seamoth interior animations would be needed:
a. Embarking pilot swaps air-hoses
b. Dome drains during docking (reversible to fill when undocking)
c. Internal cockpit air bubbles set to play intermittently.
Two new PRAWN modules with at-use animations (PRAWN Fabricator Arm and PRAWN Repair Tool Arm)
• For first time entry the PRAWN would have to be manufactured to linger at the surface, perhaps supported with airbags.
These PRAWN updates would likely make the most dev demands - but are essential to tie it all together.
One new Cyclops interior animation - 'airlock draining' when boarding (reversible to flood before disembarking). I believe the Cyclops can already flood when damaged - so there's some readymade animation there.
• A tweak of Cyclops docking bay so docked vehicles protrude higher through the deck for access to their modules and storage bins.
Two new habitat features:
a. 'Floor Hatch' using existing artwork and coding from Lifepod 5,
b. 'Ceiling Dock Hatch' to connect a base with the Cyclops, (perhaps through the multipurpose room's unused central ceiling hatch-point)
• Two new functional habitat compartments: 'Dry Airlock' and 'Wet Airlock'. Graphically these could be compiled from existing assets (glass hatch, straight compartment and bulkhead). The coding for their functionality could be quite minimal (see Cyclops section above). Animation for airlock flooding could be adapted from that now used for flooding damaged compartments.
COSTS:
Well only a big fish at UW could put a figure. But it's not all that steep I'd reckon: Only several new coding sets needed - all very short. Graphically it largely reuses existing assets.
To recoup costs the UW might market it as a hardcore-mode DLC, extending game re-playability. Even amongst early access users I'd expect plenty enough demand. Of course I'd rather see in the main game.
So I've probably overlooked some stuff, and spawned some unintended consequences, etc. Any thoughts?
However, right now there's not a lot to suggest the full crushing hostility of the fearsome Deep. Bases and subs can be accessed just by jumping in through windows, and the player can casually skinnydip out of the PRAWN suit at 1700m.
On the other hand, maintaining an ease of game-play is very important. For instance it's great to furtively dash in and out of the Seamoth, all paranoid about predators, without having to wait on airlocks re-pressurising. For the most extreme realism, who'd want the drag of simulating realistic decompression stops? Nevertheless a browse around Wikipedia turned up some pretty interesting techniques actually used to live and work at depth. Very helpful, but I wouldn't urge to limit game mechanics to just these.
So here's a pitch for a update package that might achieve an engaging balance between credibility and gameplay, while still staying fairly light on dev costs.
SOFT DIVE SUITS:
A new mechanic on these would trigger some interesting consequences throughout the entire game.
Currently there are 4 types of 'soft' dive suits (AEP Suit, Still-suit, Radiation Suit and Reinforced Suit). These could each be assigned a particular 'recommended depth rating'. Once a diver exceeds his suit's depth rating he'd begin to take a very low rate of damage per minute. However for every added 10 meters deeper still that rate would be increased. The lightest suit could perhaps be rated down to 400m, and other suits deeper still.
For the sturdiest 'Reinforced Suit' I'd choose an 800m rating. This would pair it well with deepest Seamoth use, almost right down to the sub's max crush-depth of 900m. Now 800-900m becomes an interesting transitional zone - the Seamoth pilot can can forage and make repairs, but staying healthy becomes an increasing challenge, prompting the urge to start suiting up in the mighty PRAWN. Deeper still, beyond 1000m or so, swimming excursions outside a base or a Cyclops become very brief or very fatal. Now you're really starting to feel some the tons of water above you.
SEAMOTH:
This little puppy (guppy?) makes for nice agile gameplay. For increased game-immersion the Seamoth could be shown to be a 'wet sub' (a sub with a cockpit that freely fills with water). This means the player can still quickly exit and enter at depth - but the implication is that a Seamoth pilot may still be vulnerable to pressure damage - depending on their depth and choice of dive suit. As for the luxury of breathing, a returning blue-faced diver would be seen to automatically switch to the Seamoth's built-in rebreather hose.
PRAWN SUIT:
Currently this does not feel like the mighty suit of deep-sea armour it really deserves to be. However, soft-suit damage mechanics suggested would go far towards fixing this. To this I'd add a measured pinch of realism...
In contrast to the Seamoth's wet sub', the PRAWN would be a 'single atmosphere dry sub' - (it's always filled with air at pressure equal to surface air pressure). Once inside, the player is safely immune to all pressure damage. However there should be a trade-off - this tough little clam should be a little more difficult to get into. Like a real-life diving hard-suit the PRAWN's hatch shouldn't open underwater. This'd mean no more exit from a submerged PRAWN to swim blithely about in the crushing abyss. Instead, either a sea-base's moonpool or the Cyclops' vehicle docking port must be used for underwater PRAWN access. Naturally you'd still want to build and repair things at great depth (>900m). This means the need for two new PRAWN modules: the 'PRAWN Habitat Builder Arm' and the 'PRAWN Repair Tool Arm'.
So you can't get out to fiddle about with the PRAWN anymore? Now the Cyclops then becomes much more valuable as mobile support for PRAWN's repairs and module swapping.
CYCLOPS:
Currently this magnificent monster seems all too dispensable for about 95 percent of the game. The updates I've suggested so far would begin to change that. Just a couple more tweaks could make it feel even more of an deep-sea explorer's sanctuary.
Like the PRAWN, the Cyclops is also clearly a 'single atmosphere dry sub'. However, this one can be entered at depth, in two obvious ways. First by a swimmer via its 'Wet Airlock'. There already is one conveniently built into its bow (pointy end). This could be made to work very simply: You'd click on the hatch, be moved into the flooded airlock, which then quickly drains before the inner bulkhead door unlocks. Click on the inner door and you're moved on through, with it closing behind you. Otherwise the Cyclops could of course still be entered via its vehicle dock using a Seamoth or PRAWN. However, now the deep is more hostile, this dock needs to be tweaked to allow full access to the upgrade modules and storage bins of docked vehicles.
HABITATS:
Currently jumping in through a window, while convenient, is a continual gameworld immersion-killer. But some real-world techs might help here. Turns out there are 3 main categories of undersea habitats:
• ambient pressure base
• hybrid base
• single atmosphere base
Shallow water habitats could be 'ambient pressurised' (internal air pressure = outside water pressure). Quick entry is still possible, but always from below - either via the Moonpool ladders, or else by a new habitat item the 'Floor Hatch' (of just the kind featured in Lifepod 5). But no more dodgy jumping in through the windows!
Getting deeper the limitation of building more ambient pressure bases starts to get apparent. Below at least 400m any householder would be experiencing periodic pressure damage (see soft-suits above). Building a 'hybrid base' now begins to look a lot more attractive.
A mid-depth hybrid base has it's main structure kept at surface atmosphere pressure, providing a sanctuary from any ambient pressure damage. Its Moon-pool, on the other hand must, must of course stay at the higher ambient pressure to keep it from flooding (yup, so in deeper bases, and a player lingering in the Moonpool could still sustain a degree of pressure damage). Naturally, player movement between the Moon-pool compartment and the main structure requires a new compartment type - the 'Dry Airlock'.How about external entry to the main structure by a diver? Like for the Cyclops, a functional 'Wet Airlock' is needed. For those finding that airlock use gets all too tedious, the Precursor forcefield entrances might be made a discoverable tech mid/late game.
The very deepest bases (say >1500m?) would need to be built as 'single atmosphere habitats'. This crushing depth here are beyond the useful limits of a moonpool - its ambient pressure is now just too damaging for puny humans (see soft-suit section above). So the deepest bases must now be made as fully watertight bunkers. How to get in when it's too deep for swimmers to knock on the door? Your Cyclops now becomes essential: First dock your PRAWN in the Cyclops. Second, exit the Cyclops bow hatch to directly enter your base. Yes, this means development of the long-awaited Cyclops docking point to link it with a base. Now you're feeling like very small bug in a can beneath a very large boot. Great.
DEVELOPMENT:
The guts of all this could be achieved with a simple algorithm set, using the new diving 'Suit Rating' values with the Depth variable to calculate periodic reductions to the player's Health. If this calculation is made only once per minute then it should cause negligible effects on frame-rate.
Three new brief Seamoth interior animations would be needed:
a. Embarking pilot swaps air-hoses
b. Dome drains during docking (reversible to fill when undocking)
c. Internal cockpit air bubbles set to play intermittently.
Two new PRAWN modules with at-use animations (PRAWN Fabricator Arm and PRAWN Repair Tool Arm)
• For first time entry the PRAWN would have to be manufactured to linger at the surface, perhaps supported with airbags.
These PRAWN updates would likely make the most dev demands - but are essential to tie it all together.
One new Cyclops interior animation - 'airlock draining' when boarding (reversible to flood before disembarking). I believe the Cyclops can already flood when damaged - so there's some readymade animation there.
• A tweak of Cyclops docking bay so docked vehicles protrude higher through the deck for access to their modules and storage bins.
Two new habitat features:
a. 'Floor Hatch' using existing artwork and coding from Lifepod 5,
b. 'Ceiling Dock Hatch' to connect a base with the Cyclops, (perhaps through the multipurpose room's unused central ceiling hatch-point)
• Two new functional habitat compartments: 'Dry Airlock' and 'Wet Airlock'. Graphically these could be compiled from existing assets (glass hatch, straight compartment and bulkhead). The coding for their functionality could be quite minimal (see Cyclops section above). Animation for airlock flooding could be adapted from that now used for flooding damaged compartments.
COSTS:
Well only a big fish at UW could put a figure. But it's not all that steep I'd reckon: Only several new coding sets needed - all very short. Graphically it largely reuses existing assets.
To recoup costs the UW might market it as a hardcore-mode DLC, extending game re-playability. Even amongst early access users I'd expect plenty enough demand. Of course I'd rather see in the main game.
So I've probably overlooked some stuff, and spawned some unintended consequences, etc. Any thoughts?
Comments
I think regular suit max 800m (slightly less than un-modded Prawn) and reinforced suit max 1500m (slightly less than best modded Prawn) would be more appropriate.
@Quiet_Blowfish You forgot the PRAWN Scanner Arm. How about a PRAWN Multi-tool arm that accepts items from the player's inventory to be loaded into it and then selected for use?
Thanks also OxGa. Your multi-tool arm seems like a really good workaround for a lot of contingencies. BTW did your first line have a link to click on? - It didn't seem to work for me.
The first line of my post? I was tagging scifiwriterguy so he would read your OP, which I thought was pretty cool and figured he'd like (and probably have good input on as well). Or did you mean my signature? There's two links in the first line of my signature, but they should work fine (double-checked just now).
As a question though, wouldn't this also change the amount of danger in the abandoning ship mechanic of the cyclops? If the water would have to flood back in whilst leaving, wouldn't it be far easier to get caught in the blast (without a vehicle docked inside)?
I've always found it a bit immersion breaking that your character is seemingly immune to depth and can magically hop in and out of bases and subs with impunity.
I've yet to experience the full joy of a disintegrating Cyclops. My game is kaput at the moment, would you describing the experience for me?
Thanks also gamer1000k.
I'd like to read that. Is there a way to post me a link to it?
A few thoughts...
On the subject of depth-gating the dive suits
Brilliant. It provides reasonable encouragement for players to actually produce the various suits, and an incentive to plan ahead. Granted, most of them will probably leap straight to the Reinforced Dive Suit and just keep with it, so some small drawback to the RDS might be in order...perhaps a marginally slower base swim speed.
It'd be a small matter (relatively, anyway) to add an animation showing the PC plugging the 'Moth's air supply into his/her dive mask.
The only thing I have with this is that it would break realism a little bit. Not in the sense of depth/damage realism, but in the physics of it. The interior of the 'moth has to be at the same or greater pressure than the surrounding area, or the hatch couldn't be opened. (Net pressure differential; like a door on a sinking car.) This would mean that the 'moth's cockpit would be at the same pressure as the damage-inducing surrounding water. To take damage while in water but not in the dry cockpit presents a problem; caisson divers would be in deep trouble (no pun) otherwise.
I still like the idea; we just need to noodle out a justification.
ABSOLUTELY. I'd probably gate this - allowing free exit at, say, 400m or shallower but locking the hatch below that point. However, as the OP points out, an ADS isn't really meant for hop-in, hop-out convenience. And, frankly, the added realism outweighs the inconvenience. Plus, it segues perfectly into the next proposal...
...which is an ideal solution to all of the "the Cyclops has no point" naysayers. This would very much give it the point it really should've had all along: support vessel.
Okay, I've mentioned this before, but it does bear repeating. The cycling airlock concept is definitely 1. more realistic, and 2. possessing of a certain aesthetic appeal. However, while it'd be "whoa, cool!" the first couple of times and "okay, that's realistic" a few more times beyond that, the constant delay getting into the sub would quickly send most players into the "COME ON!" level of impatience. However, adequately fast...I think you could get away with it.
Agreed. However, swapping hatches from being side-mounted to bottom-mounted would solve the whole thing; an ambient pressure arrangement works this way in real life, and it'd be a simple solution to the immersion (har!) problem in SN.
Dang, you really did your research!
I'd also suggest that a deep-submergence moonpool could also be arranged. Effectively, a large airlock chamber with armored doors forming a floor. Dock, close, pump dry, exit vehicle. That way, the Seamoth remains viable. However, that'd be a lot of animation and development work.
Time out...are you suggesting the cockpit be flooded during normal operation? That'd be inadvisable, particularly since you seem to be shooting for enhanced realism. The inertial problems alone would contraindicate a flooded cockpit. Besides, a cyclical air supply essentially used to flood and drain the cockpit would be technically (in the engineering sense) feasible, and the animation could be done reasonably quickly. But using shore air as you suggested is still something that should be implemented either way.
The only hitch I see here is that the PRAWN would really need a capability enhancement in the form of additional tools. A habitat builder and a repair tool at a minimum, and a scanner would be highly advisable. If you're going to prevent the user from disembarking mid-dive, then reasons to disembark need to be removed.
It does beg the question, though: should the PRAWN be destroyed at sufficient depth, would that be a player insta-kill, or would the usual damage-over-time model apply?
I second the gentleman's motion.
From a development assets standpoint, this is going to be the toughest sell, but post-1.0? I could see it happening.
You know, as much as the DLC system just annoys me to death...yeah, I'd pay for this upgrade. And I'm sure a lot of other people would, too. I wouldn't relegate it to hardcore-only mode, though; these benefits would be applicable to any game mode. Personally, I'd configure the DLC to add a control panel to the game's Settings menu giving the player checklist-type control over enabling features like depth gating and PRAWN lock-in. That way, players of every level and game mode can enjoy the benefits without having to be held to additional restrictions they may not enjoy.
@Quiet_Blowfish, seriously: standing ovation. Superbly done, well-researched, and exactly the sort of suggestions needed.
@Obraxis, @Flayra, @Squeal_Like_A_Pig - guys, I know you're eyeballs-deep in release-date pain (and believe me, I feel your pain), but I really, honestly believe that this is a proposal you want to read and seriously consider.
Here's some reply to a couple of your questions:
About the Seamoth...
To clarify the Seamoth function I do indeed propose it fills completely with water when in use. These exist and one was used by a research vessel working out of my home port to film sharks (a kind of a long Perspex tube some chump piloted prone, with motors attached). When piloting a 'wet sub' there is never any problem exiting the craft underwater (apart from sharks!) because it is filled with water is not sealed off from the surrounding water - so there's no pressure differential. You're right though that this is not an agile sub design because of the mass of the water contained - so that's where a suspension of disbelief is required. But certainly, your alternative of having a dry cockpit that floods and purges every time is good - I just thought it might take too long and also UW might find animating is a little unpalatable.
About the PRAWN.......
Yeah, the OxGA7232 guy had an idea the could be solved by having one new prawn tool that can articulate any tool selected in a player's inventory. I don't know how realistic that'd be but it would certainly head off a lot of unforseen limitations.
Thanks dude.
Here's the link to my old thread.
Apologies friend. By rights I shouldn't be trying to read posts wearing a mask and snorkel really. I draw the line at removing the fins though!
Thanks. I especially like your idea of setting up a temperature-damage mechanic for each suit type.
Regarding our discussion on the Seamoth....
I found some good examples with a google-search for 'wetsub' images. I'd like to post a picture of one here but I'm really not sure how to do it. Anyways there's one model of the 'Scubster' line that looks a bit Seamothy. It's only pedal powered lol, but the principle is the same.
This a link to an article on it:
leisurepro.com/blog/ocean-news/scubster-green-personal-submarine/#
Cheerio
I guess that is max. dive depth for a world record holder, but hey a few hundred years from now we will all be GM superhumans so I think 300 is fair.
If you want to page someone (not everyone checks all their replies regularly, after all), put an @ in front of their name, like this: (This trick also works in the Subnautica Discord chatroom) @scifiwriterguy
However I feel that some of these changes would be detrimental to the game feel.
To me this is a sci-fi fun game, adding too much realism will make it a sim and, personally, I don't want a diving simulator.
I feel like if realism was a core feature of the game, the devs could've easily researched it or maybe even hired professional consultation on the subject and worked on the game with this in mind. It would make for a much blander game imho.
The problem with talking about realism is that an alien world can be very different from our own. For instance:
- planet 4546B could have different gravity, which would drastically change the water pressure
- the planet 'water' could be a solution with density slightly different from our water
- the game 'meter' may be slightly different from our meter (maybe they use standard galactic meters).
Therefore, maybe on 4546B pressure may be way weaker or way stronger than on earth and it just wasn't explained to the player.
Humans are very susceptible to pressure variations, taking that into account would drastically change the game design. Not including:
- the way light seems to be everywhere and the character vision does not seem to be impaired.
- large patches of lava on underground biomes (these would lead to really fun things if taken realistically, for instance: very hot water and the increased amount of bubbles from evaporation would lead to localized zones with much, much lower water density) on our real world lava is not usually exposed underwater. It cools, relatively quickly, into basalt.
- and many more will come up if you start to nitpick the game design.
That said, I haven't played in a long time but, I always felt the cyclops was out of place. And seems to me that the community still feels the same.
This pressure "gating" really does look like an elegant solution to the cyclops role in the game, and I always welcomed the idea of having depths only available to the prawn.
Maybe there could be compromises between realism, what is feasible to implement and what does not hurt the game flow.
Shoot this, the more I read it the more I want these changes into the game. I'm a nitpicker myself and trying to find flaws into a very considerate post is a terrible hobby.
@Quiet_Blowfish Kudos on this entire topic!
Hi @Maalteromm,
Thanks for your kind words.
I agree that the current game dynamics might be preferred by many players - and many of the current crop might even get cranky if these changes are forced on them (good thing this game isn't going to multiplayer!).
There must be some kind off hidden formula in game design where 'realism' needs to be balanced with 'playability' in order to equal max 'immersion'. And even so, different mixes would be appreciated differently be different players.
So I'm thinking more and more that changes like these might be best introduced as an Advanced/Hardcore mode, so you have a choice. Doing it via game-modes would have the additional value as a business decision, since it could increase the re-playability of the game. And as much as I love this game I find hard to find reasons to replay right now.
Cheers then.
On the other hand it does not seem like realism is such a major requirement for immersion. It doesn't look like it in books and movies, so maybe games can get away with it too.
I get this feeling. But that is expected from a singleplayer exploration game.
Nowadays I consider myself lucky if I get to finish a single playthrough in any game. That's why I stopped playing in the end of bones update, precursor starting, so I could play again when 1.0 came out.
Me too. I really like intelligent FPS games, but it seems that Grand RTS games offer me the best long-term addiction. Good thing while waiting on Oct 30 is there's some huge updates out this week for Stellaris and Total War Warhammer.
The depth limitation. Okay, you want the player to be restricted on how far they go. That is realistic. But how do you deal with vehicle destruction? Your Cyclops dies in the PCF area. You have a base 800 meters away. In the game now, you can do the trip. If you planned ahead and have enough tanks. Avoid getting killed by whatever. This is now impossible. You might as well be auto killed if your Cyclops explodes. Gathering your resources back is now impossible.
The different suits: I'm still not going to use the other suits. Just default to the best one (Reinforced). Especially since I play in Freedom mode. If you want me to use other suits. They have to have a real benefit. Ark does this right. There's different outfits that have different damage reduction values. And are useful for hot and cold environments. Also, the characters appearance is cared about in Ark. Subnautica it's not. I'm just gonna use the Reinforcement suit and move on. You add a limitation to this suit, to try to coax people to not stick to this one suit. You are not balancing the game correctly. You're forcing someone the wrong way.
The user taking damage while in the Seamoth: Than no one will use the this vehicle. It's easier to not bother, than adding this realism. The Seamoth is already restricted by being unable to be used below 900m. So I already don't use it as it is. This makes it overall worse. I built bases in the ILZ.
Unable to exit PRAWN suit: Than you have to redesign item gathering from the ground up, to accommodate this. This will also become annoying. Trotting back and forth with the suit only. I only do that if I have to use a Warpgate. Other times I rather just take the sub down. I would avoid using the PRAWN suit more often with this restriction added. Worst case scenario: I get locked in the suit. Not realizing the Cyclops is too high up to load back in. I now have to return to a base, exit swim back. What if you forgot it at a crush depth the player can't get to. You risk a game ending stop on the player. How do you deal with enemies? I can't exit and use the Stasis rifle. Making a Stasis Rifle arm is not an option either. Good luck aiming with that. What happens when your Power Cells go? You die and the suit is stuck down below. So now you have to maneuver your Cyclops to try to grab it. What if the area is narrow. Docking grab is now impossible. You now have to make a new PRAWN suit. Than you'll be able to get it out, with the Grapple hook.
Jumping through a window: I agree, this is dumb. But making realistic is also not needed. This is a game. People don't need delays when doing stuff. An easier way to do this: Is have all hatches emit a forcefield when the door is opened. You than pass though it. Logic breaking issue gone. This game is futuristic. We create parts from thin air. Forcefields will not be out of place.
Habitat building changes: The key thing I love about survival games, is to build whatever I want. Having a real life limit the way entry hatches are placed is a no. I want more places to use a hatch. Not less. No airlocks to deal with pressure changes. No restricting Moon Pools. Because than I can't even use a Moon Pool in the ILZ. This restricts building creativity. And restrict places where to make Habitats.
Prawn suit Habitat and repair arm. Not practical. You're basically making the player deal with gravity under water. It can't float or hover. So you're just simulating the annoying part of building bases on land, in water. I'd end up making one base in the Safe Shallows. Getting bored of the game faster and than moving on. VS creating multiple bases exploring and using scanner rooms as mapping stations around the map. The fun I get out of these types of games, is the building aspect. Followed by the story, than survival. If this stuff was added as a alternate Hardcore mode. Or modded in by fans. It's perfectly fine to do. Not in basic survival mode.
A siren sounds and cabin lights flash a hostile red. With a fearsome scraping and scrabbling emerge two dozen vengeful robo-crabs. They swarm over @Hulkie2345's PRAWN suit hammering and chipping away at the suit's enamelled dome. Abruptly there is a muffled implosion as Hulkie is crushed under 175 atmospheres of water pressure. Small fish venture into the wreckage to pick gently at the remains.