Update 317 Live on Steam! - Natural Selection 2

24

Comments

  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 387 Advanced user
    Is hiveskill broken or why are there no changes since the patch? Especially after gathering it always bounced up and down since there is no shuffle, but now it's stuck :)
  • IeptBarakatIeptBarakat The most difficult name to speak ingame. Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,679 Advanced user
    Congratulations on making a spectator slot system that is objectively worst then what everybody was already using.

    Yes because joining a server under the assumption of being able to play yet be told that you can't join the game since the teams were full was a great system.
  • MrStonedOneMrStonedOne Seattle Join Date: 2013-12-19 Member: 190297Members Posts: 22 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    Congratulations on making a spectator slot system that is objectively worst then what everybody was already using.

    Yes because joining a server under the assumption of being able to play yet be told that you can't join the game since the teams were full was a great system.

    I have never joined a server with the expectation I'd be able to play. And most servers stated what their limitation is in the text, it was easy to see what ones were specs only and what ones likely had playing slots.
  • BeigeAlertBeigeAlert Texas Join Date: 2013-08-08 Member: 186657Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Pistachionauts Posts: 2,829 admin
    edited August 2017

    I have never joined a server with the expectation I'd be able to play.

    Surely you see how this could be a problem for new players that don't know to expect this...
  • MephillesMephilles Germany Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Members, NS2 Map Tester Posts: 959 Advanced user
    moultano wrote: »
    The skulk challenge is awesome. It makes me want to try all of the other tutorial bits that I'd never touched before. One suggestion, the speedometer is hard to read at a glance. It would be wonderful for it to change color as you approach max speed.

    But what is max speed? My personal speed record so far is 11.7
    return to zero
  • peblpebl Join Date: 2016-02-09 Member: 212816Members Posts: 43 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    moultano wrote: »
    It would be wonderful for it to change color as you approach max speed.

    Make it bronze if your speed is above the average speed you need for bronze. Same for silver, gold, and platinum.
    moultano
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,082 Advanced user
    pebl wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    It would be wonderful for it to change color as you approach max speed.

    Make it bronze if your speed is above the average speed you need for bronze. Same for silver, gold, and platinum.

    Oooh! I got an idea. For a while now I've been thinking that there should be some visual feedback when a skulk is walljumping correctly, or moving in a correct speed. For example a little trail of sparks or something. That way rookies can go "Wow look! How do ***I*** make my skulk do those pretty sparky things?" - and just like that they are introduced to the somewhat hidden mechanic of walljumping.

    Well, to expand on that idea, why not make the sparks in the same color as your skulk challenge medal?
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    SantaClaws wrote: »
    pebl wrote: »
    moultano wrote: »
    It would be wonderful for it to change color as you approach max speed.

    Make it bronze if your speed is above the average speed you need for bronze. Same for silver, gold, and platinum.

    Oooh! I got an idea. For a while now I've been thinking that there should be some visual feedback when a skulk is walljumping correctly, or moving in a correct speed. For example a little trail of sparks or something. That way rookies can go "Wow look! How do ***I*** make my skulk do those pretty sparky things?" - and just like that they are introduced to the somewhat hidden mechanic of walljumping.

    Well, to expand on that idea, why not make the sparks in the same color as your skulk challenge medal?

    I don't think we need annoying fantasy glitter in this game to clutter the view.
    KasharicHandschuhcooliticIronHorse
  • HandschuhHandschuh Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44338Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Community Developer Posts: 387 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    Had a weird bug: I was normal rifle marine with exo and had welder equipped.. was a long round, while being in the minigun exo even lost our base.. so I was more than 15min. in that exo..some time later I got almost crushed, needed to leave my exo with 22 armor left.. I survived and I had literally no weapons, no axe or welder.. till a mate from another exo gave me his rifle... that was pretty weird
    Vman007
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    edited August 2017

    It's not worth breaking the ability to use my karma to bump people on tgns.


    I would argue that kicking an active player out of a slot simply because you're more popular on a server is the exact sort of thing we don't want new players experiencing.

    The rest of what you're complaining about is just small quality of life things. Nothing really game breaking.

    Irritating? Yes. But not the end of the world.

    I'd probably say that not being able to join from friends list would be extremely irritating, but alas none of my friends play NS2. :'(
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


    SquishpokePOOPFACE
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Handschuh wrote: »
    Had a weird bug: I was normal rifle marine with exo and had welder equipped.. was a long round, while being in the minigun exo even lost our base.. so I was more than 15min. in that exo..some time later I got almost crushed, needed to leave my exo with 22 armor left.. I survived and I had literally no weapons, no axe or welder.. till a mate from another exo gave me his rifle... that was pretty weird

    I've seen this bug a lot. The server log has a Lua error with something to do with "activeWeapon" when this happens.
  • MrStonedOneMrStonedOne Seattle Join Date: 2013-12-19 Member: 190297Members Posts: 22 Advanced user
    edited August 2017

    It's not worth breaking the ability to use my karma to bump people on tgns.


    I would argue that kicking an active player out of a slot simply because you're more popular on a server is the exact sort of thing we don't want new players experiencing.

    The rest of what you're complaining about is just small quality of life things. Nothing really game breaking.

    Irritating? Yes. But not the end of the world.

    New players are exempt from being bumped. and karma on tgns is earned by doing things that are helpful to the overall server like taking over when a comm drops out, swapping teams when they become unbalanced, joining the server when its low, etc. Not "being more popular".

    Remember, assuming makes an ass out of u and me

    Oh, and you should read the full comment thread before replying. I was not arguing they were end of the world things, nor was I even arguing they were irritating. My argument is that is it objectively worse than the existing mods for spectator slots. Nothing more, nothing less.

    if UWE is going to make a native replacement to an existing mod, it needs be at the very least, as good as that existing mod.

    It is not.
    Post edited by MrStonedOne on
    develTriggerHappyBroSquishpokePOOPFACE
  • SantaClawsSantaClaws Denmark Join Date: 2012-07-31 Member: 154491Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,082 Advanced user
    I'll just add here that the quick play feature doesn't work either.

    I was trying to join a server using the old steam friends method, didn't work. So I clicked quick play, tabbed out, forgot about it for HOURS, played other games and stuff, came back, still searching.

    There are so many barriers to entry in this game right now that I'm starting to think organising gathers is more convenient.
    Handschuh
  • AmbivalentAmbiguityAmbivalentAmbiguity Miami, FL Join Date: 2014-02-18 Member: 194129Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 23 Advanced user
    edited August 2017

    New players are exempt from being bumped. and karma on tgns is earned by doing things that are helpful to the overall server like taking over when a comm drops out, swapping teams when they become unbalanced, joining the server when its low, etc. Not "being more popular".

    Remember, assuming makes an ass out of u and me

    Oh, and you should read the full comment thread before replying. I was not arguing they were end of the world things, nor was I even arguing they were irritating. My argument is that is it objectively worse than the existing mods for spectator slots. Nothing more, nothing less.

    if UWE is going to make a native replacement to an existing mod, it needs be at the very least, as good as that existing mod.

    It is not.

    I did read the whole thread. Did you so soon forget what you said about assuming?

    Besides that, you're missing the entire point or you conveniently ignored it to point out how "wrong" I was about how karma worked. I frankly don't care how it works. A player shouldn't be bumped from actively playing. Period. If this breaks that system, then great. Bringing up how "karma" works or how wrong I am for making an assumption about how it works does not change the underlying message.

    I'm fully of the belief that these servers that change gameplay, balance, or how and when you get to actually play in the server from anything but the base of how NS2 is built need to be thrown into the arcade tab. But that's not really relevant to this discussion.

    I'm a server op. I love this change. It's been needed for a while.

    Could it have been done better? Probably. Am I frustrated with some aspects of it? Hell yeah I am. But frankly we don't have a large enough team to troubleshoot every possible outcome of the implementation of this system. That's where feedback and offering solutions come into play. And that's exactly what I've been doing behind the scenes. Offering help, bug reporting, and possible solutions to those who can make a change.

    Very few people offer constructive help or possible solutions for what they consider problems. They just expect the team to make it perfect the first try. And if it doesn't? Non-stop complaining with no alternatives that try to match the goal or intent behind the change. Honestly? It's disappointing.
    Post edited by AmbivalentAmbiguity on
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    @MrStonedOne, you should recognize me as a long time TGNS regular. I play there because the games are usually higher quality than the typical pub game while having a refreshing amount of maturity. I am not a TGNS hater.

    Bumping players has been one of the most annoying things TGNS does. It is disruptive and frustrating.

    You said this update made the spectating system OBJECTIVELY worse. I disagree with most of your so called objective reasons. I think the system is better. Your opinions are not facts.

    UWE does not and should not be responsible for every mod. That is a horrible precedent.

    Can you think of a way that could let this new system work with TGNS better?
    In what ways could this system be improved?
    How can we make NS2 more intuitive without lowering the skill ceiling?

    TGNS is still one of the subjectively best NS2 servers. It is like the country club of NS2. Lets go enjoy the game.

    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • MrStonedOneMrStonedOne Seattle Join Date: 2013-12-19 Member: 190297Members Posts: 22 Advanced user
    >UWE does not and should not be responsible for every mod. That is a horrible precedent.

    They aren't responsible for every mod, but if they put out a feature already covered by a mod, they need to understand that said mod has set the bar, and if their feature doesn't meet that bar, it will be looked down upon for that reason.

    End of discussion, the "hard" ness of spec slots, the limited ways players can move between the two slot styles, and the fact they don't let admins nor scripts manually correct any misplacements is bad, and it taints every good thing about the system.

    The second thing, and by far the most angering change is the f4 blocking. Like I had to flat out stop playing since this update dropped because of how frustrating it is. Maybe it's just me, hell it likely is, but it is extremely frustrating and extremely jarring. If that's non-negotiable, tell me now and I can uninstall ns2 and stop caring. I'm here under the hope it is negotiable.



    > Can you think of a way that could let this new system work with TGNS better?
    Don't block f4 from spectate.
    Allow admins and scripts to force players onto slot categories. (player to spectate, spectate to player) regardless of if the target category is full.

    >In what ways could this system be improved?
    Don't block f4 from spectate.
    Allow admins and scripts to force players onto slot categories. (player to spectate, spectate to player) regardless of if the target category is full.

    It's just that simple.

    >You said this update made the spectating system OBJECTIVELY worse. I disagree with most of your so called objective reasons. I think the system is better. Your opinions are not facts.

    The spectate slot mod does not have the f4 blocking. Therefore the spectate slot mod is better. end of story.
    Vman007MoFo1BestProfileName
  • Vman007Vman007 New York Join Date: 2014-01-22 Member: 193411Members Posts: 25 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    I very rarely see people get slotted on tgns. Most of them are of the opinion of you guys that it is annoying. Let alone most of them are primers and cant be slotted. And rookies cant be slotted.

    Spectating those games are generally a treat anyways. A great tool for rookies to see. But then they are denied the ease of joining that game.

    You guys really latched onto that specific point of kharma on tgns.

    The point is you should be able to go to the readyroom at anytime whether in spec or in an active slot and it has to be seamless to help retain the quality and continuity of the game. Agreed there should be a distinction between the two but they should be bridged in the server.
    MrStonedOnenyon13TriggerHappyBroSquishpokePOOPFACE
  • nyon13nyon13 Join Date: 2015-12-27 Member: 210454Members Posts: 1 Fully active user
    edited August 2017
    I agree with all Vman just said. The issue isn't the spectate slots themselves, it's the inability to go back to the readyroom that is causing issues. Just to expand on the kinds of issues it's causing:

    One issue that is a bit more minor, but still annoying, is being unable to go back to the readyroom when there is an open slot on a team, just because someone from a previous game is afking in the ready room. I believe there is a afk timer that'll kick them *eventually*, but it still seems like an unnecessary nuisance.

    Or, depending on the server, people in spectate may be unable to communicate with the players on teams (limited to only chatting with other spectators), which can be an issue when you have a new person on a team asking crucial questions but no one playing is answering because they don't notice the text, or are too busy to stop and type. In the past I could just F4 and explain to them whatever questions/issues they're having (since I'm not playing so I have all the time in the world to help them), but now that's not possible.

    And even other sillier stuff, maybe you just want to jump around the readyroom, go to the secret room, do some fun stunts with other people waiting.

    I personally believe we should be able to go to the readyroom at any time, I'm not sure that the benefit that block is supposed to give outweighs all the nuisances it can cause people.

    All that said, I don't want to be misunderstood: I really appreciate all the attention and hard work NS2 has been getting. Thank you to all who are involved in this great game.
    Post edited by nyon13 on
    jrgnCrushaK
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in Kodiak Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    Although vman, nyon, and stoned have similar feedback vman and nyons is far more productive. How you say your message is often more important than the message itself.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
    2coughKasharicjrgnSquishpokePOOPFACE
  • MrStonedOneMrStonedOne Seattle Join Date: 2013-12-19 Member: 190297Members Posts: 22 Advanced user
    >Although vman, nyon, and stoned have similar feedback vman and nyons is far more productive. How you say your message is often more important than the message itself.

    I wasn't giving feedback.

    Somebody stated something about a earlier comment I made that was incorrect. I was correcting them. My replies to nordic was exclusively about addressing their replies to a comment of mine. No more, no less.
  • NintendowsNintendows Join Date: 2016-11-07 Member: 223716Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 379 Advanced user
    Vman007 wrote: »
    It would be like in soccer
    Football*
    "Association football" is the official name of the sport. "Soccer" is the short form of the official name.
  • ArchieArchie Antarctica Join Date: 2006-09-19 Member: 58028Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Supporter Posts: 440 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    Just letting you know that a ghost isn't exactly going exactly the same position or speed the other person actually is, watch crazycat jumping, he's litterly leaping/flying and maintaining speed, or in crazys case it's just bugged(jumping in one spot)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw-XNEQ9H_8

    Here's an example.

    I find that i have problems on the docking part or that gay as staircase the entrance or jumping over the little bit at the res tower to go around the corner of docking) I'll be contempt that i've surpassed his ghost, that's enough for me i tried with 2 mice, an optical and a laser, the optical is much better for this and even dropped me down 20 points, what's worse is dropping my resolution down for more FPS actually made me slower, is there some dependence on FPS too? seems like gravity/physics is slowed down the higher my fps is, too low and i get warping..

    edit:from what i read in the thread, the option is to not use a ghost, i get bad interp on jumps sometimes that makes me slow down or fail the jump.
    IPB Image Constellation - a great source of income :> http://www.netplanet.co.nz/ns/
  • jrgnjrgn Join Date: 2006-11-03 Member: 58289Members Posts: 142 Advanced user
    I must agree on this spec thingy, i just joined TTO to spec, then a player slot opened. I tried to press f4 but to no avail. Tried Esc>go to readyroom. Didn't work. Tried reconnecting (typed it into console) and was denied connection. This has to be adressed since the logic is lacking in what to do in this situation. And even after the map change i was still in a spec slot...? Spec is only for speccing, not intended for people (like most i assume) who spec to wait for a slot to open.
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 728 Advanced user
    nyon13 wrote: »
    I personally believe we should be able to go to the readyroom at any time, I'm not sure that the benefit that block is supposed to give outweighs all the nuisances it can cause people.

    I have to agree that there's never any reason to prevent f4'ing to the ready room when spectating. Maybe one of the devs could take a sec to hop on here and explain the reasoning behind this change?

    It's not like people in the ready room can join a team when they're full anyway? So what does it matter whether they're in the ready room or spec mode?

    coolitic
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