Base structure vs real maximum depth

MasterBurteMasterBurte GermanyMembers Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232073Posts: 8 Fully active user
Hi folks,

i suggest a major change in the way base building works. The current structural strength is not intuitive and immersive (for me).

Let's take the exterior modules of bases and classify them into different levels.
Levels could be as following:
lvl 1 = max depth 100m
lvl 2 = max depth 200m
...

Every base module could have a range of levels, where some of them could do have an unlimited range others could have a starting level and end level. For example the current glas corridors could start at level 1 and end at level 8. A more durable version with less glass could be implemented to have a higher max level. Where a very deep basis would need corridors with just minor bull windows.

Note: Alternatively a max level could be discarded, but to reach the highest levels there are a lot more ressources involved.

An example (glas corridor again) for ressource costs and look:
lvl 1 - 2 quarz
lvl 2 - 3 quarz
lvl 3 - 4 quarz
...
lvl 5 - 6 quarz - the glas and other elements look thicker, maybe more material on the outside
...
lvl 10 - 11 quarz - the apperance is very sturdy now
Note1: If possible i would suggest that every lvl would look a little thougher than the lvl before, this would just need more modeling.
Note2: It would be possible to limit the abuse of higher level parts with implementing new materials for higher levels. So at a given lvl a part of the amount of titan involved could be changed to plasteel or something other.

If or if not a maximum level is needed depends on the actual type of structure involved. A glas window can only be x amount of centimeters thick before the hole structure gets to big. I can imagine thicknesses of up to 1 meter for extreme high level parts, but the needed ressources should change properly.

To prefent players from needing to build an an lvl 30 glas corridor with 31+ quarz, we could implement schematics of better structures with other materials that don't get that bulky. Of course these would have a higher lvl to begin with.

To make the UI not overly complex the structure would be selected like it is current with one further window to choose the desired depth level.


I can imagine, that this would be implemented in a mod, but if by the devs themself it would be great.
ShuttleBuggamer1000kGourmet_GuySilentmanSouthernGorilla

Comments

  • ShuttleBugShuttleBug USAMembers Join Date: 2017-03-15 Member: 228943Posts: 567 Advanced user
    Cool idea! :smiley:
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  • ShadrissShadriss Members Join Date: 2017-05-02 Member: 230205Posts: 12 Fully active user
    Nice, but in game terms I don't think it fits... not without reworking a number of things (like how the wrecked Degassi seabases look) that the devs most likely don't want to revisit at this point.
    CaptainFearlessNuclearTestingJacke
  • gamer1000kgamer1000k Members Join Date: 2017-04-29 Member: 230121Posts: 313 Advanced user
    The whole base structural integrity thing feels like a placeholder system that never really got replaced. I totally agree that individual structural components should each have their own depth rating and the game simply won't allow players to build these components below their maximum depth.

    This would eliminate the random base breaches as a result of construction where there was a brief instant where the integrity dropped when you added a moonpool before you could get the reinforcement/bulkheads added, and also the silly base designs where there's a bunch of foundations and reinforced corridors/multipurpose rooms in a hidden corner of a base that magically allow giant windows to exist everywhere else.

    The idea to have different levels and costs for each component is great, although for the sake of avoiding clutter I would prefer a much smaller number of levels that roughly correspond with the existing vehicle depth upgrades. For example, the level 1 base components can only be placed down to about 200m, level 2 goes down to 500m, level 3 goes to 900m, and level 4 goes to 1700m.

    wallygator
  • Sam_StarfallSam_Starfall Members Join Date: 2017-05-21 Member: 230665Posts: 198 Advanced user
    The current mechanic do feel like a placeholder but only because the balance is way too lenient and it scream at having O² generator as a base component.
    I don't think it would work well to have individual depth rating.
    There is only so many place you can put armor and it would severely harm creative designs (you couldn't have full glass room at any depth, which is something worth sacrificing realism)

    So the current method is all right, at least if they don't intend to had other features.
    Because if they do, then we can keep this topic going forever just with the potential.
    example:
    any sort of air-generator would give a focus to make (actual) compartmentalized flooding. By that I mean having 50% of your base flooded but still functional because the bulkhead did keep the water out of the rooms with the air-generator, or kept the water restricted to where the leak is.
    ...which bring us to WHAT threaten seabase at all, beside pressure.
    I'm not saying "creature attack" or "weather" unless the players can act to prevent it, it does leave "human error", like now when we overstretch a base without armoring it.

    Many potential, but you have to find one that allow freedom&creativity, but at a cost for everybody.
    Myself I don't mind having to have absurd amount of armor on some rooms to justify another part being pure glass at 1500m
    Warvis
  • Timelord_FredTimelord_Fred Members Join Date: 2017-07-05 Member: 231596Posts: 264 Advanced user
    Looks at OP. Sees:
    Clash of Clans: Underwater Version
  • XautosXautos Members Join Date: 2017-07-31 Member: 232161Posts: 25 Advanced user
    i always felt that there should be a limit on how many modules and rooms can be placed and how far and wide you can go to do so, no other artifical limits or levels. you can still create other bases but those have the same limits.

    i once build this tower of 250 multipurpose rooms in the blood kelp zone and stuck out just a little out the water, filled them with ACs and ladders and that took a long time to do and then filled them with every type of fish i could get outside the console. that was just ridicious and it got redundant after 50 or so. That was far too much and some limits should most certainly be put in place.
    wallygator
  • garathgarath TexasMembers Join Date: 2017-02-08 Member: 227730Posts: 923 Advanced user
    Nahh.... don't make any changes to the game. I want to put all my reinforcement modules in one small area and then build a glass corridor from the Gun Island to the Aurora to the Floating Island to the PCF so I can take a scenic walk from place to place without ever getting my feet wet. :)
    TarkannenelfcrisisSouthernGorillaWarvis
  • JarinJarin Los AngelesMembers Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190184Posts: 165 Advanced user
    Discussion of reinforcement misses an important point. The structures are maintained at depth pressure. You can build a moon pool regardless of location, so the pressure has to be equalized.
    wallygator
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 USMembers Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Posts: 5,270 Advanced user
    Sounds like a good mod idea.
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  • Who_needs_ArmorWho_needs_Armor Members Join Date: 2017-06-23 Member: 231295Posts: 49 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    You're right about the "would likely need to be a mod" part. I would hate something like this. I already have no reason to build more than one base (as many others have also testified in the relatively recent "multiple bases?" thread), and any more restrictions on building bases would destroy any chance of me making more than the one main base in the shallows I use for the entire game without issue. I don't think the game needs to give us less reasons to build extra (or just deeper) bases.
  • Sam_StarfallSam_Starfall Members Join Date: 2017-05-21 Member: 230665Posts: 198 Advanced user
    Jarin wrote: »
    Discussion of reinforcement misses an important point. The structures are maintained at depth pressure. You can build a moon pool regardless of location, so the pressure has to be equalized.

    Dealing with internal air pressure would increase tenfold the features and add decompression time almost everywhere. It may encourage a player to stay at the same pressure as much as possible to not have to deal with it, but the cost of relocating your bases and stuff isn't worth it.
    Also: acceptable break from reality
  • JarinJarin Los AngelesMembers Join Date: 2013-12-16 Member: 190184Posts: 165 Advanced user
    Dealing with internal air pressure would increase tenfold the features and add decompression time almost everywhere. It may encourage a player to stay at the same pressure as much as possible to not have to deal with it, but the cost of relocating your bases and stuff isn't worth it.
    Also: acceptable break from reality

    Oh I agree. I was just pointing out that there's a reason we don't need super-reinforced hab modules when we're 1000m down. As for decompression... I just assume the rebreather is nanotech magic. Gameplay gets way too complicated otherwise.
    Timelord_Fred
  • ShuttleBugShuttleBug USAMembers Join Date: 2017-03-15 Member: 228943Posts: 567 Advanced user
    Jarin wrote: »
    Dealing with internal air pressure would increase tenfold the features and add decompression time almost everywhere. It may encourage a player to stay at the same pressure as much as possible to not have to deal with it, but the cost of relocating your bases and stuff isn't worth it.
    Also: acceptable break from reality

    Oh I agree. I was just pointing out that there's a reason we don't need super-reinforced hab modules when we're 1000m down. As for decompression... I just assume the rebreather is nanotech magic. Gameplay gets way too complicated otherwise.

    Would be a nice hardcore touch to add a craftable decompression suit that's accommodates the nitrogen buildup
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  • Sam_StarfallSam_Starfall Members Join Date: 2017-05-21 Member: 230665Posts: 198 Advanced user
    At this point we may as well be talking of adding a pressure gate to the player himself.
    By that I mean the sort of:
    "you only survive depth beyond ?00m with a special reinforced suit, but the Prawn+claws still allow you to interact with resources before you have one"

    This is such a nice idea I feel the urge to remind everybody that THEY have a schedules and not infinite time to add whatever amazing features I come with.

    :'(
  • MasterBurteMasterBurte GermanyMembers Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232073Posts: 8 Fully active user
    Jarin wrote: »
    Discussion of reinforcement misses an important point. The structures are maintained at depth pressure. You can build a moon pool regardless of location, so the pressure has to be equalized.

    Disagree with you. If There were such high internal pressure, we would all die. The moonpool can be upgraded with a energy shield that allows us to pass through, while it maintaince the pressure in the moonpool. This would constantly drain energy from your base, OF COURSE. To prefent floading at failure you have to build an airlock between moonpool and the rest of the base.
    At this point we may as well be talking of adding a pressure gate to the player himself.
    By that I mean the sort of:
    "you only survive depth beyond ?00m with a special reinforced suit, but the Prawn+claws still allow you to interact with resources before you have one"

    This is such a nice idea I feel the urge to remind everybody that THEY have a schedules and not infinite time to add whatever amazing features I come with.

    :'(

    I would love to see some kind of hightech deepsea suite with internal maintained pressure. It could be much more mobile than one in RL and allowing for swimming at slietly lower speeds than a normal suit (but more protection from damage and heat)

    I would asume that more than ~600m are impossible to survive with the regular diving suite only. Additionaly i would add decompression mechanics, but with easy manageable effects via future injections or something similar.
  • MasterBurteMasterBurte GermanyMembers Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232073Posts: 8 Fully active user
    These mechanics i'm talking about are not meant to be hardcore. This is just an arcade game. But if they are implemented accorenly they would add to the immersion and would allow modders to "easy" audjust them to make a realistic/hardcore mode (i would want this mode).
  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 USMembers Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Posts: 5,270 Advanced user
    edited August 2017
    Jarin wrote: »
    Discussion of reinforcement misses an important point. The structures are maintained at depth pressure. You can build a moon pool regardless of location, so the pressure has to be equalized.

    Disagree with you. If There were such high internal pressure, we would all die. The moonpool can be upgraded with a energy shield that allows us to pass through, while it maintaince the pressure in the moonpool. This would constantly drain energy from your base, OF COURSE. To prefent floading at failure you have to build an airlock between moonpool and the rest of the base.
    At this point we may as well be talking of adding a pressure gate to the player himself.
    By that I mean the sort of:
    "you only survive depth beyond ?00m with a special reinforced suit, but the Prawn+claws still allow you to interact with resources before you have one"

    This is such a nice idea I feel the urge to remind everybody that THEY have a schedules and not infinite time to add whatever amazing features I come with.

    :'(

    I would love to see some kind of hightech deepsea suite with internal maintained pressure. It could be much more mobile than one in RL and allowing for swimming at slietly lower speeds than a normal suit (but more protection from damage and heat)

    I would asume that more than ~600m are impossible to survive with the regular diving suite only. Additionaly i would add decompression mechanics, but with easy manageable effects via future injections or something similar.

    https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2296127/#Comment_2296127
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  • MasterBurteMasterBurte GermanyMembers Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232073Posts: 8 Fully active user
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    Jarin wrote: »
    Discussion of reinforcement misses an important point. The structures are maintained at depth pressure. You can build a moon pool regardless of location, so the pressure has to be equalized.

    Disagree with you. If There were such high internal pressure, we would all die. The moonpool can be upgraded with a energy shield that allows us to pass through, while it maintaince the pressure in the moonpool. This would constantly drain energy from your base, OF COURSE. To prefent floading at failure you have to build an airlock between moonpool and the rest of the base.
    At this point we may as well be talking of adding a pressure gate to the player himself.
    By that I mean the sort of:
    "you only survive depth beyond ?00m with a special reinforced suit, but the Prawn+claws still allow you to interact with resources before you have one"

    This is such a nice idea I feel the urge to remind everybody that THEY have a schedules and not infinite time to add whatever amazing features I come with.

    :'(

    I would love to see some kind of hightech deepsea suite with internal maintained pressure. It could be much more mobile than one in RL and allowing for swimming at slietly lower speeds than a normal suit (but more protection from damage and heat)

    I would asume that more than ~600m are impossible to survive with the regular diving suite only. Additionaly i would add decompression mechanics, but with easy manageable effects via future injections or something similar.

    https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2296127/#Comment_2296127

    I read the text about the ballon, not entirely right what was posted there. A air filled ballon under water won't sustain the same air pressure when he got submerged. The pressure inside the ballon is slightly greater than outside regardless if the ballon is at sea level or submerged, duo to the additional pressure of the ballons synthetic material itself.
  • sayerulzsayerulz oregonMembers Join Date: 2015-04-15 Member: 203493Posts: 744 Advanced user
    Disagree with you. If There were such high internal pressure, we would all die.

    This is not actually true. So long as they have time to adjust, humans can survive extreme air pressures. In fact (I may be wrong about this part) some deep-sea divers, to equalize the pressure with their surroundings, breath a special air mixture that is kept at such high pressure that they are actually breathing a liquid. Obviously returning to normal pressure is a lengthy process, but the point is, air pressure alone can't hurt you.
  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;)Members Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Posts: 1,179 Advanced user
    sayerulz wrote: »
    Disagree with you. If There were such high internal pressure, we would all die.

    This is not actually true. So long as they have time to adjust, humans can survive extreme air pressures. In fact (I may be wrong about this part) some deep-sea divers, to equalize the pressure with their surroundings, breath a special air mixture that is kept at such high pressure that they are actually breathing a liquid. Obviously returning to normal pressure is a lengthy process, but the point is, air pressure alone can't hurt you.

    You're partially right on this, deep sea divers, particularly those exploring shipwrecks, do have a tank of a few different gases mixed together to limit the effects of Nitrogen Narcosis. The gases don't necessarily become a liquid, but they do get quite a bit denser than just regular pressurized oxygen.

    Could I have a more experienced diver second this and/or correct me?
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
  • Timelord_FredTimelord_Fred Members Join Date: 2017-07-05 Member: 231596Posts: 264 Advanced user
    Anyone else feel this thread is getting off topic?
  • MasterBurteMasterBurte GermanyMembers Join Date: 2017-07-26 Member: 232073Posts: 8 Fully active user
    Anyone else feel this thread is getting off topic?

    Ha Ha, i like off topic.... so i go a bit off topic in my own thread!

    If we include propper pressure chambers and variable internal pressure values, we can get interesting mechanics out of it.
    A pressure chamber could be used as entrance to the base or connect different pressuriced base parts with each other. Different pressuriced base parts could be a moonpool (same pressure as outside) and a regular base.
    With the variable internal pressure we could reduce the amount of material we need to build a deep base with the downside of decompression if moving to low pressure enviroments.
    Seamoths, Prawnsuits, etc could be used as mobile pressure chambers. So you can slowly increase the air pressure to reach high depths and very slowly lower the pressure if need to. We would have inside and outside pressure gauges to prevent "accidents". So you can see, if your inside pressure (in the prawn suite) matches the pressure of the cyclops while docked (or even from distance).

  • TarkannenTarkannen North CarolinaMembers Join Date: 2016-08-15 Member: 221304Posts: 669 Advanced user
    At this point we may as well be talking of adding a pressure gate to the player himself.
    By that I mean the sort of:
    "you only survive depth beyond ?00m with a special reinforced suit, but the Prawn+claws still allow you to interact with resources before you have one"

    This is such a nice idea I feel the urge to remind everybody that THEY have a schedules and not infinite time to add whatever amazing features I come with.

    :'(

    I'd rather they instead add a realistic sleep/fatigue system to the game before they consider adding a realistic depth/pressure system. Sure, a real human couldn't really survive 1500 meters below sea level outside of a vehicle in just a swimsuit (even with a rebreather)... but to me it's far more unbelievable that a real human could survive 200+ days of staying awake endlessly, doing all the tasks our survivor does without any detrimental health concerns. :(
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  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NYMembers Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    Ummmm...

    Combination Spaceships/Submarines, WARP Drive and a Massive Space Firing Gun...

    And folks can't wrap their heads around a "Futuristic, Emergency Space/Diving Suit" that can keep their character alive under extreme conditions... ???

    B)
    <chuckle>
    Warvis
  • jamintheinfinite_1jamintheinfinite_1 JupiterMembers Join Date: 2016-12-03 Member: 224524Posts: 1,062 Advanced user
    what did I just say about casting revive on dead threads
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  • DaveyNYDaveyNY Schenectady, NYMembers Join Date: 2016-08-30 Member: 221903Posts: 1,337 Advanced user
    Skope wrote: »
    what did I just say about casting revive on dead threads

    Always roll a 20?

    That's on reviving Dead Friends...

    Ya need two die hitting 20 for Dead Threads.
    B)
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