I'm voting this although I believe they have already patched it this way. I saw videos of IGP playing experimental before the update and he had to stop every few seconds to make repairs in the lost river. He could barely move the thing before he had to stop again. That was ridiculous.
But I saw another video of the stable update which shows a guy picking a fight with a reaper and it only did about 1/10 with each attack, and wandered off after each strike. He had to actively seek it out to get damaged again. If it's scaled like that, then that's fine. If anything a reaper could stand to do a bit more.
However medium sized creatures should not be able to sink the thing so easy. Wearing it down and applying pressure, sure. At most those Lava Lizards should be softening you up for the Sea Dragon, not soloing your giant submarine.
I never liked using the cyclops because it was hard to drive and caused my game to crash. These updates have done absolutely nothing to change that. Maybe if you could carry a sample that was to large to otherwise carry yourself or in your suits storage. Maybe if it had a "deployment" mode where it could transform into a rooted base with a thermal or nuclear reactor (perhaps permanently). Maybe if it house a super computer that you needed to access one of the precursor bases, or maybe if it had a feature that could distract the sea dragon and enter the lava castle with more ease.
Right now all I can see the thing actually being useful for is when we have to gather a ton of materials to craft the ship we need to leave with. Otherwise unless you want to move really, really slow, your better off never bothering.
Some of you seem to be missing a major point. This is a sci-fi based game. That typically means remaining within some bounds of logic.
You can't have something built to withstand the massive pressures of the depths be so easily damaged by minor external forces. You just can't have it both ways. Why are they throwing out the logic at this point?
I do want to say, that while I haven't piloted the new Cyclops 2.0 yet, I would like to point out something from the above quote. The Cyclops isn't built to withstand the pressures of the depths, it's only rated at 500 meters initially. While yes, you can increase that depth, you're only doing so with a Pressure Compensator. The hull of the Cyclops is still being subjected to pressures it can't take, but the Module is taking extra care to monitor the hull and try to regulate the stress; this is likely why creature attacks do more damage at increased depths (Don't forget, we use more O2 at increased depths without the Rebreather).
And even disregarding that point, what happens in real life when submarines are forced to dive lower than they were designed to do so? Their hulls start to buckle under the increased stress, to the point that anything minor striking the hull (such as terrain or larger sea creatures) are more likely to cause hull breaches and sinking the submarine. I dunno about you guys, but that sounds pretty logical to me.
I think it should be somewhere between 2 and 3. The small fish should do small amounts of damage, but maybe you could also scare them away temporarily with the horn but risk drawing larger, more damaging creatures? It still feels strange that a boneshark biting a titanium hull could damage it substantially. Maybe have a hull upgrade with tiers that make the cyclops invulnerable to increasing sizes of creatures.
Some of you seem to be missing a major point. This is a sci-fi based game. That typically means remaining within some bounds of logic.
You can't have something built to withstand the massive pressures of the depths be so easily damaged by minor external forces. You just can't have it both ways.
Why are they throwing out the logic at this point?
So, do you or do you not think bases, the Seamoth, and the PRAWN (which can go deeper than the Cyclops) should be immune to anything but the large fishies too? Because I think I'm being logical that if they can be destroyed by less (by tiger plant needles!), then the Cyclops shouldn't be immune either.
And as already has been said, gameplay's worth a lot too. We don't have diver's disease, we can get oxygen from bubbles, medkits can heal you up no matter what you've tangled with, the whole module system where you can insert a rod and magically a storage box appears on the side of your vehicle, no anti-flooding chamber, no pressure issues for the moon pool no matter how deep you built, etc. Compared to all that, the Cyclops being battered to destruction by high-speed armored live ammo the size of a motorcycle is mild.
You keep assuming (here and in several other of your posts) that people want it to be invincible to smaller creatures. That's not what they said at all. We just think that the damage they're currently able to do to it both doesn't make any sense and breaks the gameplay aspect for this ship.
I like the fact that this ship can be damaged now and all that that adds to the game. I hate that the current implementation makes building one worthless. It can't function as a mobile base when any aggressive creature can destroy it in a matter of just a few minutes.
You keep assuming (here and in several other of your posts) that people want it to be invincible to smaller creatures. That's not what they said at all. We just think that the damage they're currently able to do to it both doesn't make any sense and breaks the gameplay aspect for this ship.
I like the fact that this ship can be damaged now and all that that adds to the game. I hate that the current implementation makes building one worthless. It can't function as a mobile base when any aggressive creature can destroy it in a matter of just a few minutes.
Heya, don't point at me when OP literally gave the options "Make the Cyclops more realistic - the necessary toughness needed for the pressure of the depths should make it withstand all but the strongest of assaults (leviathan sized fauna, high speed collisions)." vs "Retain the Cyclops changes - whilst somehow able to withstand the pressure of the depths it may now be torn apart by fish farts."
The Cyclops isn't built to withstand the pressures of the depths, it's only rated at 500 meters initially. While yes, you can increase that depth, you're only doing so with a Pressure Compensator. The hull of the Cyclops is still being subjected to pressures it can't take, but the Module is taking extra care to monitor the hull and try to regulate the stress; this is likely why creature attacks do more damage at increased depths (Don't forget, we use more O2 at increased depths without the Rebreather).
But 500m of water on a world with about Earth gravity at the surface is 51 atmospheres of pressure. 5100 kPa or 765 lb/in^2. And that's at the weakest points on the hull, which will be joints and cable channels. The rest of the hull will be stronger. In fact, by standard engineering design, the actually yield will be 5 times that pressure, to avoid the strain to the hull pushing it into non-elastic response and permanent deformation.
On the other side, the bite of the Stalker and the Bonefish are likely stronger than that (saltwater crocodile on Earth has about 10 times that pressure). Especially the Stalker, which has special hard enamel which makes its shed teeth so useful. But that's only at the points of their teeth, which will put bite marks on the hull but may not really damage it in a larger sense, considering how small their mouths are WRT to Cyclops. Beasties with bigger mouths like the Reaper and the Sea Dragon are more likely to do significant damage.
In my new Experimental game, I'm still getting the frags to build the Cyclops (already have all the mats) and I will have to test to see how frustrating damage to it is right now.
if anything i think the cyclops is taking too much damage from smaller creatures like bonesharks and sandsharks, i think it should not take any damage unless it collides with something or the creature is leviathan size
It's balanced enough as it is. And the creatures that can deal damage to it are only Sea Dragons, Reapers, Ampeels, Bonesharks, River Prowlers, Crabsquids and Lava Lizards.
I voted more realistic, but I am probably somewhere between realistic and current. Some attacks need to be toned down a bit, but mostly I dont feel it is anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.
It's balanced enough as it is. And the creatures that can deal damage to it are only Sea Dragons, Reapers, Ampeels, Bonesharks, River Prowlers, Crabsquids and Lava Lizards.
Crabsquids cant damage it in my experience and I had two of them ramming at the same time in the Deep Reef. Even running into one while in Silent Running did not result in damage. Their EMP did disable the cyclops briefly though.
I'm just kitting out my Cyclops. I'm still setting it up as a mobile base as I will work hard to avoid losing it, to the point I will restore saves if necessary.
But I'd like to deal with problems without restoring if possible. One thing I've thought of, besides making and stocking extra Extinguishers throughout the Cyclops, is installing extra Medical Kit Fabricators. Sure, I need a Computer chip, 2 Fiber mesh, and 5 Titanium each, so they're not cheap, but I think considering how bad smoke can get with fires, it might be necessary.
I could just fab a bunch of Medkits and put them in the lockers with the Extinguishers, but I thought extra Medkit Fabs would be a better way to do this.
I don't want to be roped into any Cyclops talk until I have properly investigated everything, but I do have some agreement that the attacks by small fishes need to be rebalanced because numbers are proving a bigger problem than size. I'm fine with bonesharks being able to damage the Cyclops (do they even bite? I thought they did that highspeed collision thing of theirs) because there's not enough big creatures to make Cyclops damage solely dependent on.
But if anything, I'm looking at some adjustments in speed/noise. Don't know about you, but I'm finding myself only using flank and silent running. One's fast, the other makes me invisible. The two speeds in-between give neither benefit. I understand you have a smaller noise range compared to flank, but when you're surrounded that doesn't matter. Which is why I wonder if perhaps the noise threshold of bonesharks should be upped so that they don't attack slow, are 50/50 normal, and do what they currently do only at flank.
The issue I have with that is... well, simply put, the way the damages are skewed. Bone and sand-sharks do 30 damage per bite - and because a reaper's max damage is 80, it means three sharks can cause equal or more damage in one pass than a Leviathan. Or in other words, unless you're either hyper-aware careful with silent running or just never leave it, you risk having the sub lose 6%-8% of it's health in any one encounter.
Also, yes bonesharks do bite - as Markiplier found out just today when, upon entering the Crag Fields, he was attacked by them while in silent running. (go to the 6:50 mark)
- https://youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1CPW2iRjA
Additionally, I thought one big point behind the cyclops was so that you could explore areas that do hold big enough creatures that pose as much risk to it as the sharks do the seamoth - a scale-up process. Having the cyclops be as easy to damage as the seamoth doesn't bode well for that scale - especially since silent running does not in fact guarantee invisibility, certainly not if you were already spotted before you went silent.
[*] By that logic, bases, the Seamoth, and the PRAWN should not be damageable either.
[*] I would assume it's a territory thing, not a food thing.
[/list]
1 - Normal titanium, yes. Science-fiction materials like plasteel, blended together by tech that can manipulate on the molecular level, flash-printed as a single massive block rather than a puzzle-piece assembled modern sub, is another thing entirely. Also, you missed his point - nobody said it shouldn't be damageable; only that the damage being done is unrealistic.
2 - The fact that the stalker's databank entry specifically note they eat metal to generate the enamel for their teeth point to the opposite... but that only works for the stalkers. Bonesharks however, I can't see any reason for why some of them will follow me all the way back to the shallows.
Heya, don't point at me when OP literally gave the options "Make the Cyclops more realistic - the necessary toughness needed for the pressure of the depths should make it withstand all but the strongest of assaults (leviathan sized fauna, high speed collisions)." vs "Retain the Cyclops changes - whilst somehow able to withstand the pressure of the depths it may now be torn apart by fish farts."
But you just proved him right, there - you (A) completely ignored that there's a third option there, and (B) "necessary toughness" equates to it being stronger, not that it shouldn't be damageable by the creatures. The latter especially so, given the fact that the game's reliance on a point-value damage system means that three sharks do more damage than leviathans , which makes the damage-values skewed.
I actually could live with the cyclops the way it is now, but I do want to feel more threatened by a Reaper then I do with Ampeel. Reapers can CLEARLY rip apart a sub, but an ampeel would certainly do some damage, but not as quickly as a Reaper could.
Comments
But I saw another video of the stable update which shows a guy picking a fight with a reaper and it only did about 1/10 with each attack, and wandered off after each strike. He had to actively seek it out to get damaged again. If it's scaled like that, then that's fine. If anything a reaper could stand to do a bit more.
However medium sized creatures should not be able to sink the thing so easy. Wearing it down and applying pressure, sure. At most those Lava Lizards should be softening you up for the Sea Dragon, not soloing your giant submarine.
I never liked using the cyclops because it was hard to drive and caused my game to crash. These updates have done absolutely nothing to change that. Maybe if you could carry a sample that was to large to otherwise carry yourself or in your suits storage. Maybe if it had a "deployment" mode where it could transform into a rooted base with a thermal or nuclear reactor (perhaps permanently). Maybe if it house a super computer that you needed to access one of the precursor bases, or maybe if it had a feature that could distract the sea dragon and enter the lava castle with more ease.
Right now all I can see the thing actually being useful for is when we have to gather a ton of materials to craft the ship we need to leave with. Otherwise unless you want to move really, really slow, your better off never bothering.
I do want to say, that while I haven't piloted the new Cyclops 2.0 yet, I would like to point out something from the above quote. The Cyclops isn't built to withstand the pressures of the depths, it's only rated at 500 meters initially. While yes, you can increase that depth, you're only doing so with a Pressure Compensator. The hull of the Cyclops is still being subjected to pressures it can't take, but the Module is taking extra care to monitor the hull and try to regulate the stress; this is likely why creature attacks do more damage at increased depths (Don't forget, we use more O2 at increased depths without the Rebreather).
And even disregarding that point, what happens in real life when submarines are forced to dive lower than they were designed to do so? Their hulls start to buckle under the increased stress, to the point that anything minor striking the hull (such as terrain or larger sea creatures) are more likely to cause hull breaches and sinking the submarine. I dunno about you guys, but that sounds pretty logical to me.
You keep assuming (here and in several other of your posts) that people want it to be invincible to smaller creatures. That's not what they said at all. We just think that the damage they're currently able to do to it both doesn't make any sense and breaks the gameplay aspect for this ship.
I like the fact that this ship can be damaged now and all that that adds to the game. I hate that the current implementation makes building one worthless. It can't function as a mobile base when any aggressive creature can destroy it in a matter of just a few minutes.
Heya, don't point at me when OP literally gave the options "Make the Cyclops more realistic - the necessary toughness needed for the pressure of the depths should make it withstand all but the strongest of assaults (leviathan sized fauna, high speed collisions)." vs "Retain the Cyclops changes - whilst somehow able to withstand the pressure of the depths it may now be torn apart by fish farts."
On the other side, the bite of the Stalker and the Bonefish are likely stronger than that (saltwater crocodile on Earth has about 10 times that pressure). Especially the Stalker, which has special hard enamel which makes its shed teeth so useful. But that's only at the points of their teeth, which will put bite marks on the hull but may not really damage it in a larger sense, considering how small their mouths are WRT to Cyclops. Beasties with bigger mouths like the Reaper and the Sea Dragon are more likely to do significant damage.
In my new Experimental game, I'm still getting the frags to build the Cyclops (already have all the mats) and I will have to test to see how frustrating damage to it is right now.
Crabsquids cant damage it in my experience and I had two of them ramming at the same time in the Deep Reef. Even running into one while in Silent Running did not result in damage. Their EMP did disable the cyclops briefly though.
But I'd like to deal with problems without restoring if possible. One thing I've thought of, besides making and stocking extra Extinguishers throughout the Cyclops, is installing extra Medical Kit Fabricators. Sure, I need a Computer chip, 2 Fiber mesh, and 5 Titanium each, so they're not cheap, but I think considering how bad smoke can get with fires, it might be necessary.
I could just fab a bunch of Medkits and put them in the lockers with the Extinguishers, but I thought extra Medkit Fabs would be a better way to do this.
Wondering what others think of this idea.
The issue I have with that is... well, simply put, the way the damages are skewed. Bone and sand-sharks do 30 damage per bite - and because a reaper's max damage is 80, it means three sharks can cause equal or more damage in one pass than a Leviathan. Or in other words, unless you're either hyper-aware careful with silent running or just never leave it, you risk having the sub lose 6%-8% of it's health in any one encounter.
Also, yes bonesharks do bite - as Markiplier found out just today when, upon entering the Crag Fields, he was attacked by them while in silent running. (go to the 6:50 mark)
- https://youtube.com/watch?v=VJ1CPW2iRjA
Additionally, I thought one big point behind the cyclops was so that you could explore areas that do hold big enough creatures that pose as much risk to it as the sharks do the seamoth - a scale-up process. Having the cyclops be as easy to damage as the seamoth doesn't bode well for that scale - especially since silent running does not in fact guarantee invisibility, certainly not if you were already spotted before you went silent.
1 - Normal titanium, yes. Science-fiction materials like plasteel, blended together by tech that can manipulate on the molecular level, flash-printed as a single massive block rather than a puzzle-piece assembled modern sub, is another thing entirely. Also, you missed his point - nobody said it shouldn't be damageable; only that the damage being done is unrealistic.
2 - The fact that the stalker's databank entry specifically note they eat metal to generate the enamel for their teeth point to the opposite... but that only works for the stalkers. Bonesharks however, I can't see any reason for why some of them will follow me all the way back to the shallows.
But you just proved him right, there - you (A) completely ignored that there's a third option there, and (B) "necessary toughness" equates to it being stronger, not that it shouldn't be damageable by the creatures. The latter especially so, given the fact that the game's reliance on a point-value damage system means that three sharks do more damage than leviathans , which makes the damage-values skewed.