VR is a mistake??
Rhys
US Join Date: 2017-01-22 Member: 227103Members
US Join Date: 2017-01-22 Member: 227103Members
Don't get me wrong, it'd be amazing, and I've got a machine that should be able to run it. But...isn't that so drastically different than the Subnautica we have now? To put it simply: are they not spread a little thin?
There's still plenty of work to do on the traditional version, imho. Optimization for one. (I don't know why but the first 30 hours MAYBE three crashes, now I can't go thirty minutes: STABLE)
There's still plenty of work to do on the traditional version, imho. Optimization for one. (I don't know why but the first 30 hours MAYBE three crashes, now I can't go thirty minutes: STABLE)
Comments
I agree with everything you say here. I can't imagine that there are many VR players at the moment, so it would have made more sense to get the "normal" version completed first, then look at the VR version. However, I have no understanding of computer coding so perhaps it's not much more work to convert it to VR and work on that alongside the real version. Or perhaps, yes it is much more work, but they are preparing for VR (and XBox) as they go along. I am looking forward to the PS4 version.
I don't have enough experience to speak to specifics, but I have dabbled in VR coding before. There are two issues: first, technical, and second, gameplay/design.
VR headsets are incredibly high resoulution, 2-4 times what you get on a normal computer. Not only that, the high FOV means more needs to be rendered. Not only that, while normal players can operate with 30-60 FPS, VR headsets require 90+ for stable experiences. This roughly doubles computer load for graphics. Given that the game already struggles on normal computers - to be expected at this stage of development - VR performance is a big problem.
Gameplay-wise, VR requires completely different controls and design choices. For example, the HUD being stuck to the screen doesn't work well in VR; currently, I can't see the depth indicator without straining my eyes because it's too high, and moves with my head. This will need to change at some point. Another example is interaction and controls; depending on the toolkit, some of this is automated, but you're forced to accept 3 control types: keyboard+mouse, gamepad, and VR+gamepad where you select stuff by looking at it. One more thing: motion sickness is an issue. The devs recently changed some reefback behavior to prevent quick spinning, partially because this causes sickness in VR.
So yeah, VR is a huge project and it will likely be a while before it's on par with the normal experience. I'm sure it'll be amazing when it's done!
In more words, it sucks when devs put time/resources/manpower/whatever towards alternate platforms when the main branch isn't complete.
In the case of Subnautica, even console versions should only be developed/ported once the PC version is completely finished. Sorry console players, but you're holding up everyone else's enjoyment.
I guess The implementation of VR in Subnautica is still very bad because the devs did not do much more than just enabling VR.
I hope that they fix the VR, but I agree that the main gameplay should be better first.
BTW: the VR feature is already so good that exploring the sea in a seamoth in VR and suddenly getting caught by a reaper can traumatize children for life.
Anything that traumatizes children is something I want to be a part of.
@hacky Can you recommend a good PC VR thing ... errr... device, whatever it's called.
Pretty much all the VR headsets are expensive, Steam's HTC is close to 800 dollars. Occulus Rift is close to 800 if you include the hand controllers. HTC is newer while Occulus is the original company that started the whole VR headset thing before Facebook went and purchased the company. This is as far as I know but I think Rift has been at it longer and therefore probably has better VR tech.
http://www.pcmag.com/article/342537/the-best-virtual-reality-vr-headsets
Htc vive.
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Pros:
-roomscale (4x4m sapce out of the box)
-tracked controllers (picking up stuff in VR and interacting with it)
cons:
-no integrated audio (bring your own headset)
-bulky controllers
Oculus Rift.
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pros:
-integrated audio
-lighter and more rigid headset
-light controllers that really feel like part of your hands.
-shipped with an xbox one controller
cons:
-more expensive with controllers
-not-so-much roomscale (It's better suited to use standing at one spot.)
The better controllers of the Rift can't make up for the roomscale of the Vive in my opinion. Only if you primarily want to use your VR games seated, I'd recommend the Oculus rift though. Oculus is also working on improving the scale by adding more sensors. They cost $100 each though...
Oculus has recently started shipping controllers to the Netherlands and we have 2 rifts and 2 Vives now for about 8 months, but the Rifts haven't been unpacked yet. Without controllers they are worthless compared to the Vive.
I overlooked your post. Good summary on some of the VR gameplay issues!
I think it's good to have a small team working on VR though. Like you said, the movements should be subtle, the interfaces have to be thoughtful and a lot of things we don't think of has to be built right into the core of the game. You can't rush in VR at the end. Let's hope they do it right and slowly because I am on the forums right now and not playing because the (non-VR) game is hanging and crashing all the time.
Have you tried clearing the terrain cache? See the first line of my sig. Also run from an SSD if possible. Bunch of other useful stuff in the sig, give it a read-through, and, if you have any feedback, don't hesitate to mention it.
Now the devs may move on to VR. haha
-make scalable UI to make it fit the screen.
-increase PDA text size a little bit for readability.
-move PDA a litte more far from the face.
-fix camera center position in seamoth and other vehicles.
-fix the toolbar going out of eye convergence (sort of) when assigning items
The rest is shared with the non VR game, like graphics optimization, performance, stability, bugs and so on. As you can see there's not that huge need of work to do to make it VR ready.
Oh and I have zero motion sickness. I can even play standing up, without balance loss while moving with my xbox controller... wow...
I may be entirely wrong, but this game done right, and done right in VR could be a turning point for the industry.
Just my two cents, someone correct me if I'm horrendously wrong.
You are correct. VR industry is in an egg and hen nonsensical stasis. There are tons of low content/mediocre development indie titles and very few good titles out there. And SN is one of the best VR ready videogames, a model to look at (Elite: Dangerous is the other one in my experience). It seems that triple A houses are still waiting for positive signs from VR market, but until they see big numbers, they will hold on. Fact is that all depends on what indie game producers will be able to put together in the near future.
That's why SN devs should keep up with VR and make it shine. And don't forget that a VR optimized game will run as a Formula 1 on non VR systems
The Rift has been able to do room scale since the beginning, with a single sensor you can cover usually about a 10 foot square area without a problem. Now with touch controllers you need a second sensor for when your body is between the Touch controllers and the front sensor. But that works flawlessly so far for me. You can easily cover an area as large as the cord from the HMD will reach, it's BS saying the Rift is seated only, it wasn't even accurate BEFORE the Touch was released.
I've stopped playing Subnautica because playing it in the Rift is so much better than on a flat screen, if the Oculus Home version isn't going to be updated then I'm not wasting space on my SSD.
Now that I read your post again I think that we both miss out on the term "standing vr". That is between room scale and seated.
But why do you stop playing because vr is better? Do you think the vr version is not going to be updated and what had it to do with your ssd? I completely don't understand anything of you last line.
You know USB extensions exist, right? In the corners with their about 90° field of view You could manage out to about 10X10 meter area if you have that much area, though you'll get occlusion problems at that distance, that can be resolved with a 3 sensor setup.
Because Unknownworlds is rubbish at updating the Oculus Home version. Last time I checked it was 2 versions behind Steam. So...DELETE.
There was apparently a problem between UWE and Occulus Home store, which IIRC has been resolved a long time ago (corrupted update or something, IIRC). Pretty sure Steam and Occulus update at the same time as it's essentially the same thing.
No offence but if you're going to list pros and cons, please do research or own at least one of the HMD's. If you don't own the other of the two, don't spread false info. Rift w/ Touch does 3mx3m room scale just fine. I know, I do it every day. " better suited for standing in one spot". I mean come on.
That's why you buy a 5 meter extension cable. The sensor with Touch comes with one 5 meter extension. Again, stop spreading nonsense. It goes without saying if you just plop two sensors on your desk you aren't going to have a good 360 set up. And it's valid criticism that the Rift costs slightly more for a 360 room scale set up as you need at least one extra 5 meter extension and a third sensor. But Don't say it isn't a easily feasible option that I dare to say most users are doing.
I have all three sensors upside down on the ceiling in a triangle formation making a area just shy of 3m x 3m. I even went and bought a $30 Vive Link Box to extend the HMD cable ( passive extensions don't tend to work).
I have a play space the same size as most Vive users ( remember people with a play space larger than 3x3 are a very small minority anyways so the Vive's superior tracking distance is often moot), and can play any VR game on the market.
You write from the perspective of someone unfamiliar with the Rift or someone determined to leave out important info.
The pros and cons are simple facts and all the rest is simply my opinion.
I do own 2 items of both brands.
I am indeed unfamiliair with the extra sensorcamera for the rift. It might be a lot better with that, but until then it just isn't roomscale. Let's call it "rugscale", okay?
Let's leave everyone's room space out of the equation. Fact is that the Vive has a bigger scale out of the box. I leave it up to the reader's choice to decide if that pro is in their advantage. Extension cables, extra sensors, etc. will probably make the Rift a more favored system for me too. The pricetag however might put me down.