Arctic Biome?

JoeakuakuJoeakuaku USAMembers Join Date: 2016-04-10 Member: 215614Posts: 55 Fully active user
Is the old Arctic biome basically done for? If I recall, it was gonna be to the right of the Aurora - which at the moment is basically a dropoff, whereas the left is a lot of the playing area. The right could as such use some expansion in content, I might think.

Thoughts?
Dev response?
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Comments

  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;)Members Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Posts: 1,179 Advanced user
    I believe the Arctic biome was scrapped because it didn't fit the "tropical" feel of Subnautica.
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut HabitatMembers Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    To my understanding, the Arctic biome isn't scrapped but also not a thing. It's a low priority-maybe, if one with quite a bit of fanbase clamoring.
  • JoeakuakuJoeakuaku USAMembers Join Date: 2016-04-10 Member: 215614Posts: 55 Fully active user
    Okay, that still leaves the issue of the right side of the Aurora being very little besides basic-biome and void. What about that? Would it house the lilypad thing biome? Would it contain more of existing biomes?
  • SidchickenSidchicken Plumbing the subnautican depthsMembers Join Date: 2016-02-16 Member: 213125Posts: 1,005 Advanced user
    I think the right side of the aurora is just part of the crash zone, until you hit the drop into the void. There are a few "unassigned" biomes... one north of the underwater islands next to the mountains, another south of Aurora east of the grand reef... there might be one or two other spots I don't recall. One of these might become the lilypads and/or twisty bridges. The concept of an arctic biome doesn't make much sense though - going in the space of only one or two kilometers from tropical reef to an underwater winter wonderland? I'm not buying that.
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  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Members Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Posts: 509 Advanced user
    If it is ever added to the game it will probably be added after 1.0


  • JoeakuakuJoeakuaku USAMembers Join Date: 2016-04-10 Member: 215614Posts: 55 Fully active user
    Yeah, the area east of between the Aurora and Grand Reef hasn't been very developed besides making it into a grassy thing. In 2015 it was unassigned.
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel CanadaMembers Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Posts: 676 Advanced user
    No thanks, no Arctic, it doesn't make any sense at all to have a cold patch on this planet, at least not anywhere near where we are.

    Besides, it's unoriginal, boring, bland and no, just no.
  • RezcaRezca United StatesMembers Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Posts: 1,061 Advanced user
    Unless they can come up with a reason for why said region was colder (Precursor tech being the cause?) the best thing I could suggest would be using warper-related teleporting to poof you to a faraway arctic region surrounded by the void. That's one thing I always thought you could end up doing - when a warper teleports, you can follow it through the portal before it collapses, and you could end up god knows where.
    A Great Jaggi under the sea~

    Morph_GuySansTheSkelebro
  • Morph_GuyMorph_Guy Members Join Date: 2016-04-21 Member: 216034Posts: 509 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    it doesn't make any sense at all to have a cold patch on this planet, at least not anywhere near where we are.

    They could make it so that you have to use a Precursor Teleporter to reach it.


    Rezcabwc153
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel CanadaMembers Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Posts: 676 Advanced user
    Yeah fine, you can easily justify why it's there, due to some weird twist of game-based magic.

    But that doesn't change the fact that Arctic/Snow/Ice biomes have been done to death, and they're always boring, bland and horrible. It's lazy level design.
    You may as well throw a sewer level in there while you're at it.
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut HabitatMembers Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Yeah fine, you can easily justify why it's there, due to some weird twist of game-based magic.

    But that doesn't change the fact that Arctic/Snow/Ice biomes have been done to death, and they're always boring, bland and horrible. It's lazy level design.
    You may as well throw a sewer level in there while you're at it.

    Because long stretches of sand, mountains, and lava zones are so very unheard of in fiction that adding an ice area would significantly lower the originality average. Regardless of what is done with it because underwater games are a dime a dozen.

    I suppose since sewers are a type of underground level, wouldn't the brine sorta count?
    RezcaMorph_Guybwc153
  • EnglishInfidelEnglishInfidel CanadaMembers Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219533Posts: 676 Advanced user
    Well first of all, the lava biome was not welcome by me, I don't find it attractive or fun to explore, but at least it makes sense in the game world. Kind of. As for sand and mountains, yeah, they're not original, but you have to have something. At least the reefs and beautiful areas like the safe shallows look amazing.

    Who knows, the lava could look amazing one day too, but right now it's as bland as anything and I have no real desire to go and visit it.

    The Lost River is nice though, but still needs more.

    All I'm saying is if they put any sort of Arctic biome in the game, they need to do a damned good job to make it work, and I don't see them working on an entire concept from the bottom at this point or it would just feel half-baked.

    There's just so many better ideas. The lillypad biome would be great. A real bone-yard (not just the few skeletons in the lost river, but a whole biome) would also be neat.

    Or how about a proper coral reef? That would be beautiful and original.

    There are just so many better options than the boring old game defaults.
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut HabitatMembers Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Well first of all, the lava biome was not welcome by me, I don't find it attractive or fun to explore, but at least it makes sense in the game world. Kind of. As for sand and mountains, yeah, they're not original, but you have to have something. At least the reefs and beautiful areas like the safe shallows look amazing.

    Who knows, the lava could look amazing one day too, but right now it's as bland as anything and I have no real desire to go and visit it.

    The Lost River is nice though, but still needs more.

    All I'm saying is if they put any sort of Arctic biome in the game, they need to do a damned good job to make it work, and I don't see them working on an entire concept from the bottom at this point or it would just feel half-baked.

    There's just so many better ideas. The lillypad biome would be great. A real bone-yard (not just the few skeletons in the lost river, but a whole biome) would also be neat.

    Or how about a proper coral reef? That would be beautiful and original.

    There are just so many better options than the boring old game defaults.

    But we already have the lilypad biome confirmed to be implemented and I think twisty bridges counts as a coral reef? I don't know what experience you'd want a coral reef to be. So, adise from not being a case of "or", arctic has a concept sheet already from way back, which certainly contains some fun ideas. I'm mostly intrigued by the mirror house sense of claustrophobia that emanates from a few lines. Since one of my favorite experiences in Subnautica is being lost in a cave system or wreck and forcing myself to stay calm if I want to make it out, I'd love to give a landscape like that a try.
    RezcaMorph_Guy
  • RezcaRezca United StatesMembers Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Posts: 1,061 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    But we already have the lilypad biome confirmed to be implemented and I think twisty bridges counts as a coral reef? I don't know what experience you'd want a coral reef to be. So, adise from not being a case of "or", arctic has a concept sheet already from way back, which certainly contains some fun ideas. I'm mostly intrigued by the mirror house sense of claustrophobia that emanates from a few lines. Since one of my favorite experiences in Subnautica is being lost in a cave system or wreck and forcing myself to stay calm if I want to make it out, I'd love to give a landscape like that a try.

    Can you link to where it was confirmed? All I've seen personally was models and concept art, which just means "it was planned" to me rather than outright confirmed. Twisty Bridges was in a similar position until it was said it would be put in at a later date, but was it actually said the lilypad islands were going to make it in as well?
    A Great Jaggi under the sea~

  • DrownedOutDrownedOut HabitatMembers Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Rezca wrote: »
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    But we already have the lilypad biome confirmed to be implemented and I think twisty bridges counts as a coral reef? I don't know what experience you'd want a coral reef to be. So, adise from not being a case of "or", arctic has a concept sheet already from way back, which certainly contains some fun ideas. I'm mostly intrigued by the mirror house sense of claustrophobia that emanates from a few lines. Since one of my favorite experiences in Subnautica is being lost in a cave system or wreck and forcing myself to stay calm if I want to make it out, I'd love to give a landscape like that a try.

    Can you link to where it was confirmed? All I've seen personally was models and concept art, which just means "it was planned" to me rather than outright confirmed. Twisty Bridges was in a similar position until it was said it would be put in at a later date, but was it actually said the lilypad islands were going to make it in as well?

    The Subnautica Wiki has a link to this stored screenshot from July 22, 2016. I suppose it doesn't technically say "yes, this will be a thing", but it's contextually put in the same bag as twisty bridges and, by contrast, when we got the Phantom Leviathan model UWE was quick to say "no guarantees".
    RezcaDigli
  • RezcaRezca United StatesMembers Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Posts: 1,061 Advanced user
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    Rezca wrote: »
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    But we already have the lilypad biome confirmed to be implemented and I think twisty bridges counts as a coral reef? I don't know what experience you'd want a coral reef to be. So, adise from not being a case of "or", arctic has a concept sheet already from way back, which certainly contains some fun ideas. I'm mostly intrigued by the mirror house sense of claustrophobia that emanates from a few lines. Since one of my favorite experiences in Subnautica is being lost in a cave system or wreck and forcing myself to stay calm if I want to make it out, I'd love to give a landscape like that a try.

    Can you link to where it was confirmed? All I've seen personally was models and concept art, which just means "it was planned" to me rather than outright confirmed. Twisty Bridges was in a similar position until it was said it would be put in at a later date, but was it actually said the lilypad islands were going to make it in as well?

    The Subnautica Wiki has a link to this stored screenshot from July 22, 2016. I suppose it doesn't technically say "yes, this will be a thing", but it's contextually put in the same bag as twisty bridges and, by contrast, when we got the Phantom Leviathan model UWE was quick to say "no guarantees".

    I s'ppose that's better than the state the so-called Arctic Biome is in then XD


    Though speaking of the arctic.... Something that's been on my mind lately: What's the point of frigid water? Currently, very hot water (Geysers, the ILZ, etc) will damage you... But what does freezing water do? And does the water temperature drop during the nights?
    A Great Jaggi under the sea~

  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;)Members Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Posts: 1,179 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    On the Lilypad biome, there are models of lilypad trees on Sketchfab, but that doesn't mean a lot. I would guess that if it is implemented, it would be after it V1.0.

    https://sketchfab.com/models/14fe1086994b49939161a5e3b5264843
    https://sketchfab.com/models/971877be672640f0ad0f03839eda842a
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
  • JamezorgJamezorg United KingdomMembers Join Date: 2016-05-15 Member: 216788Posts: 961 Advanced user
    I sort of want the lilypad biome to hang over the mountains, since apart from cave systems such as the Lost River and ILZ we don't really have any biomes that lay on top of each other. But, when it comes down to it, the whole idea dissolves if you don't have some wildlife to match the area. Reefbacks with lilypads jutting out their backs would be a nice touch. And other lilypad related creatures.
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    I am currently writing a fantasy novel which I plan to be the beginning of a six-seven book series.
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  • SkopeSkope Wouldn't you like to know ;)Members Join Date: 2016-06-07 Member: 218212Posts: 1,179 Advanced user
    As for Arctic biome, there hasn't been any talk about it for quite some time, as far as I know, there was one concept of what the Arctic could be like, but wasn't really expounded on afterwards.

    subnautica.wikia.com/wiki/Biomes?file=BiosphereSheet_Arctic_page01.jpg
    I've been skulking around here for almost four years.

    Yet I still have no idea what's going on.
  • killmeplease911killmeplease911 hanging out with ur mumMembers Join Date: 2016-05-24 Member: 217424Posts: 20 Fully active user
    i didnt even know that the artic biome was going to be a thing
  • RezcaRezca United StatesMembers Join Date: 2016-04-28 Member: 216078Posts: 1,061 Advanced user
    i didnt even know that the artic biome was going to be a thing

    As with @Skope 's link, it was an early idea that never really got fleshed out any. Some older Biome Maps even listed "Arctic" on them for a while too.

    If it's still on the "maybe we might do this..." list, it's definitely not going to happen any time prior to the 1.0 release - barring some miracle.
    A Great Jaggi under the sea~

  • 0x6A72320x6A7232 USMembers Join Date: 2016-10-06 Member: 222906Posts: 5,270 Advanced user
    Is there any examples in the real world of temperature extremes? Like, say, in California, where you can travel a few hours from the beach into the mountains to take a ski? (Yes I've heard from those that have done it that that is a thing, Rocky Mountains.)

    Actually, quick research, and there's such places all over the world: Christchurch, New Zealand, Toulouse France, etc:

    http://ask.metafilter.com/120672/Living-near-surf-and-snow
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  • MiralityMirality New ZealandMembers Join Date: 2016-08-05 Member: 221004Posts: 156 Advanced user
    You can totally have arctic zones near tropical zones -- especially if you add "on an alien planet" since you can define it as caused by some property of the planet that's different from Earth, eg. a more eccentric tilt or shadowing caused by neighbouring moons or planets. (Or "aliens did it", though that's a bit of a copout.)

    But these arguments only work above water. Water is pretty good at preserving and equalising heat (it takes a metric buttload of energy to heat up even a small part of an ocean, and it will take a long time for that heat to dissipate once the energy source is removed), so underwater there really isn't any way for generalised tropical waters to be anywhere near arctic waters. (Small heat sources in otherwise cold water are possible, eg. lava vents; that's a different sort of thing.)
    Avimimus
  • 04Leonhardt04Leonhardt I came here to laugh at youMembers Join Date: 2015-08-01 Member: 206618Posts: 1,213 Advanced user
    edited November 2016
    Have the Arctic Biome take place mostly inside of a large, maze-like cavern system, similar to the Jelly Shroom Caves.

    Ice formations on the walls would diffuse light from bioluminescent flora and fauna, giving the whole area a kind of "Dim Flourescent light" kind of feel, which would be particularly alien so deep underwater.

    The source of the Sub-Zero temperatures could be a massive Precursor Specimen Preservation Unit (A big ass freezer) in the center of the caverns, which would have housed and preserved the backup DNA strains of all alien life on the planet before the Carar broke out. Unfortunately, the seal on the Storage unit failed (Someone freaking left the fridge door open again), and the bacteria got in, killing all of the DNA samples (And spoiling the milk), fully extincting all the various species the Precursors were trying to preserve.

    The Biome itself would be populated with some basic, recolored creatures, ice versions of Oculus and Eyeye and Jellyrays, plus some new creatures

    Blubberfish - Large, grumpy Dunkleosteus type creatures with thick, flabby blubber that regenerates incredibly quickly, allowing the player to harvest skin samples without seriously hurting the creature. In fact, "Shearing" blubberfish is actually beneficial, since they do not stop regenerating their blubber and get fatter and fatter until they can no longer swim and die. Similar to underwater sheep, with wedge-like jaws that can crush steel. They are not Hostile, but "Grumpy" in that they will make pissed-off noises while you are near them, and will eventually bite if you do not leave after a while. Harvesting their blubber unlocks the Insulated Diving Suit which better protects the wearer from extreme heat and cold, like one would find in the Arctic of Lava Biomes. They would lurk near the entrance of the Ice Caves so that the player has a chance to unlock the suit before venturing into the freezing death.

    Glacial Leviathan - An Orca-like carnivorous whale-type creature with thick flesh. The smallest of the Leviathan class creatures. It can alter its internal temperature to freeze water, and spit the frozen shards like huge ice spears to impale their prey from a distance.

    Glacial Nautilus - Seamoth sized buoyant shellfish that gather ice on their shells to provide extra protection from predators. Passive, but will damage your seamoth if you run into them.
    MiralityRezca
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut HabitatMembers Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    Rezca wrote: »
    DrownedOut wrote: »
    The Subnautica Wiki has a link to this stored screenshot from July 22, 2016. I suppose it doesn't technically say "yes, this will be a thing", but it's contextually put in the same bag as twisty bridges and, by contrast, when we got the Phantom Leviathan model UWE was quick to say "no guarantees".

    I s'ppose that's better than the state the so-called Arctic Biome is in then XD

    Though speaking of the arctic.... Something that's been on my mind lately: What's the point of frigid water? Currently, very hot water (Geysers, the ILZ, etc) will damage you... But what does freezing water do? And does the water temperature drop during the nights?

    I suppose it would damage you too? I don't know what the devs are planning on that front other than that cold water is a noted feature of the Lost River. If a repeat of hot water is to be avoided, an argument could be made for gradually increasing damage (with a max) rather than stable damage since your divers suit should protect you with your own body heat at first. Could also slow you down a little, like the difference between swimming when you hold or don't hold something.

    I don't think night should drop the temperature anywhere but the surface meter(s) (depending on the difference at the surface). Large bodies of water hold their temperature well.
    Jamezorg wrote: »
    I sort of want the lilypad biome to hang over the mountains, since apart from cave systems such as the Lost River and ILZ we don't really have any biomes that lay on top of each other. But, when it comes down to it, the whole idea dissolves if you don't have some wildlife to match the area. Reefbacks with lilypads jutting out their backs would be a nice touch. And other lilypad related creatures.

    On the concept art page of the SNWiki, there's an image of creatures dubbed "Coral Reef Grabbers". They're the most popular Lilypad Biome creature suggestion I've seen put forth by the fanbase.
    0x6A7232 wrote: »
    Is there any examples in the real world of temperature extremes? Like, say, in California, where you can travel a few hours from the beach into the mountains to take a ski? (Yes I've heard from those that have done it that that is a thing, Rocky Mountains.)

    Actually, quick research, and there's such places all over the world: Christchurch, New Zealand, Toulouse France, etc.

    There's also ice caves, underground caves filled with ice only a few meters below the surface even when the surface temperature reaches above 20. This is due to cold air being heavier than warm air and the shape of the caves is so that the cold air comes rolling in and stays. In fact, some of these caves are threatened by preservation attempts that put a door in front of the entrance to prevent vandalism and the like but which also prevents the cold air from coming in at night. Cold traps are among the best geological excuses UWE could use for an Arctic Biome, although some suspension of disbelief remains necessary. Nothing the game doesn't already ask with the biome system.
    Mirality wrote: »
    But these arguments only work above water. Water is pretty good at preserving and equalising heat (it takes a metric buttload of energy to heat up even a small part of an ocean, and it will take a long time for that heat to dissipate once the energy source is removed), so underwater there really isn't any way for generalised tropical waters to be anywhere near arctic waters. (Small heat sources in otherwise cold water are possible, eg. lava vents; that's a different sort of thing.)

    True, which is why an Arctic Biome would need to be enclosed with mountains with only a few entrances so the interaction of water is minimized and can locally be colder. I think the concept of a reverse island - you know, one of those valley island structures classic adventurer stories are so fond of. Only example I can currently think up is Vulter's base in Mickey Mouse and the Pirate Submarine - would be needed, which is fine by me.

    A connection to the Lost River bigger than a connection to the surrounding water could also help make an Arctic Biome more believable.
  • 04Leonhardt04Leonhardt I came here to laugh at youMembers Join Date: 2015-08-01 Member: 206618Posts: 1,213 Advanced user
    I still like my broken refrigerator idea

    Though the ice cavern cold air sinking thing could explain how it was so cold in the first place to facilitate the evolution of arctic creatures in the first place.
  • ookasmcplookusookasmcplookus Members Join Date: 2016-10-22 Member: 223300Posts: 25 Fully active user
    Would it be annoying of me to bring up the concept of "void islands" again?

    Not that I don't think the other ideas of precursor teleportation or geological cold traps can't work or aren't cool ideas. Void islands just seem fairly relevant and another option on how to believably implement these "not like the others" biomes; and I am not a fan of retyping stuff.
  • JoeakuakuJoeakuaku USAMembers Join Date: 2016-04-10 Member: 215614Posts: 55 Fully active user
    Would it be annoying of me to bring up the concept of "void islands" again?

    Not that I don't think the other ideas of precursor teleportation or geological cold traps can't work or aren't cool ideas. Void islands just seem fairly relevant and another option on how to believably implement these "not like the others" biomes; and I am not a fan of retyping stuff.

    That actually could work. But something fundamentally an issue with theoretical void islands is the void part. The void isn't canon, it's merely the side-effect of having hand-crafted terrain and the fact that it's limited terrain. No planet realistically would have a normal terrain but is mostly a void with islands. Add that to how combining manual generation with procedural could be a daunting task, especially in time for 1.0. Otherwise, that is a good idea.

    This is assuming my interpretation or whatever it is of the concept being basically islands floating in the void, similar to how the floater islands is only connected to water (thanks, floaters!).
    subnauticambrian
  • DrownedOutDrownedOut HabitatMembers Join Date: 2016-05-26 Member: 217559Posts: 1,091 Advanced user
    I still like my broken refrigerator idea

    Though the ice cavern cold air sinking thing could explain how it was so cold in the first place to facilitate the evolution of arctic creatures in the first place.

    And I don't dislike it; in fact, a facility for a preservation attempt by the precursors is a very good idea. The only reason I am looking at natural ways for a cold area to exist is because of the evolution thing and because it would require the (heavy) energy generation + cooling system to have remained intact all that time.

    The two ideas can work in tandem, methinks.

    As an aside, my vote for an Arctic critter would be that purple winged whale from the concept art.
    Would it be annoying of me to bring up the concept of "void islands" again?

    Not that I don't think the other ideas of precursor teleportation or geological cold traps can't work or aren't cool ideas. Void islands just seem fairly relevant and another option on how to believably implement these "not like the others" biomes; and I am not a fan of retyping stuff.

    Nah, if it's possible, I hope you get your wish. You know my stance and why I want Arctic in base game; like Spooky's House of Jumpscares where I haven't ever encountered any of the endless mode creatures simply because I find endless mode unappealing to play. Void-Arctic areas would have less need for the dressup of explanation so could be randomly generated with free-er design than a base game one.
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