whips and other pve delay the alien tech. If anything, be thankful for too much pve - that **** can be blown up, together with any advantage the aliens pretended to have due to it.
What about free webs, clogs, and cheap hydras? With the increased pres and the fact that most gorges aren't exactly saving for onos, there's plenty of places where there's PvE besides Tres expenditure.
I realize I brought Tres up, but in truth I wasn't speaking about that scenario (because it rarely happens with experienced comms - who the hell drops a whip before metab?)
If the game goes to a point where neither commander can get tech and everything it poured into pve and support, I doubt we should be looking at the commander and their actions, but rather the actions (or lack thereof) of the field players.
I think that the commander's ability to enhance the field players actions could be improved to supplant the PvE spam at that point. (like drifter abilities, rupture, bonewall, contamination or similar)
Which is far preferable to play against as field marine player, as its more engaging and enjoyable than shooting a static object, imho
whips and other pve delay the alien tech. If anything, be thankful for too much pve - that **** can be blown up, together with any advantage the aliens pretended to have due to it.
What about free webs, clogs, and cheap hydras? With the increased pres and the fact that most gorges aren't exactly saving for onos, there's plenty of places where there's PvE besides Tres expenditure.
I realize I brought Tres up, but in truth I wasn't speaking about that scenario (because it rarely happens with experienced comms - who the hell drops a whip before metab?)
If the game goes to a point where neither commander can get tech and everything it poured into pve and support, I doubt we should be looking at the commander and their actions, but rather the actions (or lack thereof) of the field players.
I think that the commander's ability to enhance the field players actions could be improved to supplant the PvE spam at that point. (like drifter abilities, rupture, bonewall, contamination or similar)
Which is far preferable to play against as field marine player, as its more engaging and enjoyable than shooting a static object, imho
I also agree shooting a static object is not fun. Less of that please.
But who knows, maybe they just have mega uber servers and all the other servers would run like crap with an increased hydra limit. Or maybe the DMD servers are filled with deviants who don't spam down their hydras in the kind of quantities normal players on other servers would. I certainly haven't compared the server specs.
Or maybe you just can't tell it's running badly because you rarely play anywhere else and suffer from confirmation bias?
IxianDenmarkJoin Date: 2014-03-16Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
I have from time to time dropped a whip before metabolise, but that usually involved careful planning, more than great positions on the map, and/or teamwork (read extreeme rarity). The webs can be welded, the clogs can be shot (maybe try in PT or select servers nerf their HP and see how that works out?), but the hydras keep being a Biatch.
The problem with making drifters, activated abilities and the like more viable, would be the upset in balance. I've argued for drifters and their abilities to be cheaper before, but it was countered by good arguements.
Also, WHY is DMD not in arcade mode with extra entities, increased hydra limit, and whatever else they may have?
A question that will never be answered I'm afraid.
You mean to say that you weren't aware? The option to shell out money in exchange for pitch black alien skins was always one of NS2's original goals, and DMD is just making the dream a reality in 2016.
But who knows, maybe they just have mega uber servers and all the other servers would run like crap with an increased hydra limit. Or maybe the DMD servers are filled with deviants who don't spam down their hydras in the kind of quantities normal players on other servers would. I certainly haven't compared the server specs.
Or maybe you just can't tell it's running badly because you rarely play anywhere else and suffer from confirmation bias?
I do play on other servers, though those they and IBIS seem to be the only ones that consistently have players. Though I suppose you can accuse me of delusion, but at that point whats the use of talking to me? I could accuse you of the exact same thing, saying you perceive DMD to run worse because you believe that it should. I could even use psychobabble to do it, maybe get some use out of that faux science degree. Wouldn't get us anywhere though, would it?
The whole performance question is frankly irrelevant, I was just using DMD as an example since its the ONLY example and it happens to have a limit of 10. I am proposing a hydra limit increase in general, not necessarily an increase to 10 hydras. Maybe scale the hydra limit to the number of people playing, 1 extra hydra per 4 people playing or something.
The argument against PvE is valid, though it is not true PvE since you are still hurting the enemy when you kill static D (unless its really late in the game and a stalemate to boot so there was no opportunity cost in placing those down). It would be like saying killing res is pure PvE and we should remove harvesters and make the game one big death match... Oh wait...
The fact of the matter is that the game is all about resource management and non player actors. Biting res is a key part of good skulk play, much more so than shooting hydras will ever be a part of marine play. But I don't see anyone arguing for changing the resource model so there is less RT biting. To say PvE is flat out bad is just not true, the game is filled with PvE elements and those elements are what sets this game apart from other FPS games. Unless you only object to PvE when the environment fights back, maybe no one minds whaling on defenseless harvesters and spurs.
Back to hydras specifically, its also not as much of a grind as some people are making it out to be (or that biting res is). These aren't whips which can absorb multiple clips before allowing you to take ground. They're hydras, they die in 1 clip and every one you kill lets you move up a little further giving a constant sense of progress. Unless there is a gorge healing them of course, but at that point its really not PvE.
Still I take your point. But maybe if the gorge becomes significantly more fun with access to a few more hydras then maybe it is worth it for marines to become slightly less fun when fighting that gorge. The net fun might still go up. Once again speaking from my experience on the DMD servers, gorge is considerably more fun in the early and mid game while marine fun doesn't suffer. Admittedly I play more alien than marine so I wish we could hear from more players who've actually played on the server and can talk about their experience there. Instead of people who seem to know all about it despite implying they actively avoid it.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Since when is performance irrelevant, what has the world come to? Maybe you lads need to slap around some net_stats log files to actually talk data instead of air, pro tip
Since when is performance irrelevant, what has the world come to? Maybe you lads need to slap around some net_stats log files to actually talk data instead of air, pro tip
Well your average end game is gonna have 100+ entities on the map towards the end, if we increase the hydra limit to 5 we're gonna have maybe 2-6 extra hydras. I doubt that an increase in the entity count by less than 2-6% is going to torpedo performance. That is what I meant, the question of performance is irrelevant. Obviously bad performance still blows but it only becomes an issue if there are TOO MANY hydras.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
Fair enuf, but it is still dependent on the max threshold. I don't know what it is, going over that threshold would bottleneck the server/client stuff. But I expect it to be a lot higher than back in Beta or heck let's get crazy Alpha.
Performance is relevant. Hydras do kill performance. Your computer can do a local server, every computer can. Just follow the instructions. I don't think you will though. Instead, next time you are on DMD get 3+ gorges to all put their hydras in the same room. Watch your client performance drop.
Even if performance were a non-issue, my next concern would be balance. 10 hydras in a small space is pretty annoying but killable with the lategame tech marines would have. If aliens were to place 30 in an area that can't be grenaded, it would be instant death for any marine who walked in sight. You could argue that 3*30=90 pres would make that kind of area denial worth it. I don't think that is really fair. I guess that could be balanced with increased pres costs though.
Performance is relevant. Hydras do kill performance. Your computer can do a local server, every computer can. Just follow the instructions. I don't think you will though. Instead, next time you are on DMD get 3+ gorges to all put their hydras in the same room. Watch your client performance drop.
Even if performance were a non-issue, my next concern would be balance. 10 hydras in a small space is pretty annoying but killable with the lategame tech marines would have. If aliens were to place 30 in an area that can't be grenaded, it would be instant death for any marine who walked in sight. You could argue that 3*30=90 pres would make that kind of area denial worth it. I don't think that is really fair. I guess that could be balanced with increased pres costs though.
I will let others argue why PvE is not fun.
And I don't think you understand why the server performance on my computer has absolutely no relevance to the discussion. I couldn't run a normal game of NS2 on my pc, does that mean NS2 is too resource intensive? Keep in mind that NO ONE is questioning that too many entities ruins server performance, what is in question is HOW MANY entities too many is and whether upping he hydra limit will push your average server over that.
Maybe you are right and 30 hydras in one room would cause the server to chugg, however its never come up. Next time I am playing maybe I will try to get people to test this. Though I have a feeling it will be hard enough orchestrating something like this, never mind it happening organically.
Balance is a valid critique, but 10 was just a suggestion based on the 1 server that has upped the limit. The thread is about upping the count in general, not necessarily to 10. The real question is will the gorge become more fun and diverse with more hydras? And how much will marine play suffer in exchange? If there is a net benefit the devs should consider upping the limit, perhaps with some kind of unconventional cost scheme to compensate (ex. increasing price with increasing number of hydras)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited August 2016
You do have to keep in mind that there is a difference between these "entities"
A hydra/whip/turret/Babblers eats up a lot more CPU power compared to anything else really. Mostly due to the dynamic area scanning they do to track and shoot at targets with the snarks (babblers) also doing the constant pathfinding at that
Only multiplayer game I can come up with that revolves around PVE vs PVP and achieves it's goal perfectly fine in a fun way, is a MOBA...
It really depends on how you define PVE.
According to wikipedia the term ogrinates from MMORPGs games, but you could also use the term to describe "combat in a singleplayer game" and then I could name a lot of examples.
Dark souls like games are very popular at the moment. In these type of games, you have to learn how the PVE works and react to it accordingly. It feels rewarding, if you press the right buttons at the right moment and accomplish something with it.
The bosses in dark souls always follow a pattern, which you can observe and learn how to react to it. For example, they will shout a specific voice line and you know that they're about to charge in your reaction, in which you case you have to dodge roll.
In NS2 the only ways to interact with whips as marine is to:
a) stand in their range and take damage
b) shoot them from a distance
As alien the only ways you can interact with sentries is to:
a) be in range and constantly take damge
b) attack the battery
c) spore to disable them
They're just poorly implemented and dull imo. These mechanics should have (better) patterns, that you can follow, react to and improve on.
It would feel more rewarding as a marine, if you could dodge a whip attack while you're in an engagements with aliens, instead of just taking the damage and hoping that your commander meds you.
In MOBAs the enemy teams creeps are practically helpless without hero support, meaning that you can kill every creep without losing a single hp. You have full control over them not dealing damage to you, because you know how they work react to them accordingly.
You abuse your own creeps as damage soaks and try to kill enemy creeps with your last hit to get gold. Also you can use creeps as blocks for other heros. There are a lot of mechanics on which you can improve on behind the MOBA PVE, which makes interaction with it interesting.
I think it is bad for the game, if you try to balance unfun mechanics in a way that they shouldn't be used. Take them out of the game if they're not fun and therefore not properly balanced, because these things are noob traps.
Those who want more PvE, or a boost in PvE, could you give an example of good Pve? I can't think of anything that really does PvE better than NS2, and NS2 does not do PvE all that great.
Those who want more PvE, or a boost in PvE, could you give an example of good Pve? I can't think of anything that really does PvE better than NS2, and NS2 does not do PvE all that great.
I still want to know.
I literally gave you an example of better PVE right above your post. However, I don't want more PVE or boost PVE, I just want the existing PVE to be fun by adding depth to it.
If you want an example for multiplayer, then I'll say World of Warcraft. If you want a multiplayer FPS example, then I'll say left for dead.
I think offensive PVE in NS2 would be more fun, if there were more counter mechanic tied to it. It's unfun because it straight up limits what you can achieve.
For example, when you're currently in whip range you get hit no matter what. It would be more fun, if the hydra/whip had a wind up attack, that you can reliably dodge. The whip attack could be dodged through a timed crouch or jump and the hydra projectile through a timed change in movement direction.
The windup would need indication at least through an audio cue, since you can't always have your eyes on the whip/hydra.
So when you'd be in whip range and hear a "tsssss", you press crouch and when you hear a "grrrrr", you press jump.
It would be in your control to manage not to get hit (like jumping over onos stomp)
My first problem with this statement is that whips are horrible. So often in my experience you can run right by a single whip, or a field of whips and not get hit once. Other times you just die in the field of whips.
This would be better that what we have. At least it would be interactive in a way, as opposed to shooting what is mostly an inanimate object. Even though this would be better than what we have, this does not sound like good PvE to me.
Maybe I am too biased. That is why I want to see an example of good PvE in another game.
When a Boomer spots a player, they will make a surprised sound (male) or loud groaning (female). When in puking range of a player, the sounds are changed. On Easy and Normal, you'll have enough time to shove or get away from the Boomer before they puke on you. On Advanced and Expert, they'll puke immediately, so if you are up close, immediately shove them. Running away will not work, as they can arc their puke to hit Survivors from a fair distance.
Charger tactics
Locate the Charger before he charges so you can prepare to dodge him.
Avoid situations where the Charger can knock other Survivors off a high ledge, as it will either kill or incapacitate them.
Spitter tactics
Remember that this disgusting present can fly into your field of vision or feet at any moment, and from any direction. The shriek signifies an acid ball is coming, but you may not know from where. Constant scanning of balconies, catwalks, rooftops, corners, and doorways is a good idea.
Spitters aren't fast, and are only as threatening as Common Infected after the spit attack. Just cut them down with a headshot or Melee Weapon swipe before they bring up another acid ball. However, as Spitters are most dangerous when working with other Special Infected, your biggest concern is being attacked by another entity while waiting for the acid to disperse.
Compare that to the NS2 whip. It would read something like:
"Don't get close to a whip or it will hit you or not"
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
uhh idk.. that seems like a poor example of PvE? Using bot AI that is controlling something meant to be played by a player?
I get your point and all and I agree, it's far more interesting than a static object, but a better example might be something that wasn't designed for human players to jump in and out of to play.
uhh idk.. that seems like a poor example of PvE? Using bot AI that is controlling something meant to be played by a player?
I get your point and all and I agree, it's far more interesting than a static object, but a better example might be something that wasn't designed for human players to jump in and out of to play.
I could bring wow raid bosses as example for good PVE. I could even imagine jumping into the role of a raid boss against 25 other player, if it wasn't balanced so that you can not win as the PVE boss.
Anyway, I've tested the whip and it works pretty reliable in terms of hitting. The animations seem a bit off - especially when biling.
The AI could use some tweaks, e.g. not to use bile bomb against you when you don't have armor left, which it knows about, because of health bars.
But I really think that these mechanics need better feedback on what they're doing.
Another thing would be sentries. I see no reason to have three sentries around one battery. I guess it was meant to keep some sort of strategic choice on how you place and orient your sentries, but in 9 out 10 times, you place them so that they all point at the sentry batterry, so why not just make it 1 sentry that turns 360 degree and is supported by up to 3 small sentry batteries that you can't hide behind, but destory to decrease its energy !threshhold!, so that turning and shooting costs battery energy which regenerates over time, or via power surge. If it runs low on battery energy then it turns off.
The important part is now to make the sentry turn so slow, so that you can alway overcome the sentry and they're only able to hit when they have support. The sentry needs a windup time before shooting, slower turning and maybe a laser that indicates where it's aiming at. It would need of lot free space around it to be placed, so you can't just drop it in a corner.
Or what about remote controlled hydras? That's how I'd have loved to interact with the PVE in this game.
I didn't really think of Lfd2 as PvE because those are supposed to be player controlled. Even as bots they are ok.
NS2's PvE is more like RTS PvE. RTS PvE is not much fun, and FPS PvE is not really workable into NS2. I could be wrong.
You're right there with the RTS PVE, but I could see FPS PvE working, if they're just there to make engagements harder, but not impossible. You should always be able to overcome them with no health loss, so that they're just a tool that increases the chances of winning engagements. I would then also hard limit whips to 2 initial whips and +1 for every additional hive, so you can't spam them, which means that 1 whip in a room can be meaningful, while being affordable.
Aliens could use some sneaky trap like shade+whip but cheaper for early game defense that doesnt destroy your economy maybe something that looks almost like a cyst but if you walk on it it explodes with bile? single use, cheap
IxianDenmarkJoin Date: 2014-03-16Member: 194783Members, Squad Five Blue
I'm not sure what exactly electrify entails, but the current ability powersurge, researched at the command chair, will give an attack speed debuff to any alien attacking the powersurged structure. It is quite expensive to research and use, but my god, it can and has turned games already.
Comments
I realize I brought Tres up, but in truth I wasn't speaking about that scenario (because it rarely happens with experienced comms - who the hell drops a whip before metab?)
I was speaking about this scenario below I think that the commander's ability to enhance the field players actions could be improved to supplant the PvE spam at that point. (like drifter abilities, rupture, bonewall, contamination or similar)
Which is far preferable to play against as field marine player, as its more engaging and enjoyable than shooting a static object, imho
I also agree shooting a static object is not fun. Less of that please.
A question that will never be answered I'm afraid.
Step 1: bind o "impulse 91"
Step 2: wait for 100 res
Step 3: aim down, perpendicular to the floor
Step 4: SPAM O
Look at all those pretty flowers!
Or maybe you just can't tell it's running badly because you rarely play anywhere else and suffer from confirmation bias?
The problem with making drifters, activated abilities and the like more viable, would be the upset in balance. I've argued for drifters and their abilities to be cheaper before, but it was countered by good arguements.
I do play on other servers, though those they and IBIS seem to be the only ones that consistently have players. Though I suppose you can accuse me of delusion, but at that point whats the use of talking to me? I could accuse you of the exact same thing, saying you perceive DMD to run worse because you believe that it should. I could even use psychobabble to do it, maybe get some use out of that faux science degree. Wouldn't get us anywhere though, would it?
The whole performance question is frankly irrelevant, I was just using DMD as an example since its the ONLY example and it happens to have a limit of 10. I am proposing a hydra limit increase in general, not necessarily an increase to 10 hydras. Maybe scale the hydra limit to the number of people playing, 1 extra hydra per 4 people playing or something.
The argument against PvE is valid, though it is not true PvE since you are still hurting the enemy when you kill static D (unless its really late in the game and a stalemate to boot so there was no opportunity cost in placing those down). It would be like saying killing res is pure PvE and we should remove harvesters and make the game one big death match... Oh wait...
The fact of the matter is that the game is all about resource management and non player actors. Biting res is a key part of good skulk play, much more so than shooting hydras will ever be a part of marine play. But I don't see anyone arguing for changing the resource model so there is less RT biting. To say PvE is flat out bad is just not true, the game is filled with PvE elements and those elements are what sets this game apart from other FPS games. Unless you only object to PvE when the environment fights back, maybe no one minds whaling on defenseless harvesters and spurs.
Back to hydras specifically, its also not as much of a grind as some people are making it out to be (or that biting res is). These aren't whips which can absorb multiple clips before allowing you to take ground. They're hydras, they die in 1 clip and every one you kill lets you move up a little further giving a constant sense of progress. Unless there is a gorge healing them of course, but at that point its really not PvE.
Still I take your point. But maybe if the gorge becomes significantly more fun with access to a few more hydras then maybe it is worth it for marines to become slightly less fun when fighting that gorge. The net fun might still go up. Once again speaking from my experience on the DMD servers, gorge is considerably more fun in the early and mid game while marine fun doesn't suffer. Admittedly I play more alien than marine so I wish we could hear from more players who've actually played on the server and can talk about their experience there. Instead of people who seem to know all about it despite implying they actively avoid it.
Well your average end game is gonna have 100+ entities on the map towards the end, if we increase the hydra limit to 5 we're gonna have maybe 2-6 extra hydras. I doubt that an increase in the entity count by less than 2-6% is going to torpedo performance. That is what I meant, the question of performance is irrelevant. Obviously bad performance still blows but it only becomes an issue if there are TOO MANY hydras.
Even if performance were a non-issue, my next concern would be balance. 10 hydras in a small space is pretty annoying but killable with the lategame tech marines would have. If aliens were to place 30 in an area that can't be grenaded, it would be instant death for any marine who walked in sight. You could argue that 3*30=90 pres would make that kind of area denial worth it. I don't think that is really fair. I guess that could be balanced with increased pres costs though.
I will let others argue why PvE is not fun.
And I don't think you understand why the server performance on my computer has absolutely no relevance to the discussion. I couldn't run a normal game of NS2 on my pc, does that mean NS2 is too resource intensive? Keep in mind that NO ONE is questioning that too many entities ruins server performance, what is in question is HOW MANY entities too many is and whether upping he hydra limit will push your average server over that.
Maybe you are right and 30 hydras in one room would cause the server to chugg, however its never come up. Next time I am playing maybe I will try to get people to test this. Though I have a feeling it will be hard enough orchestrating something like this, never mind it happening organically.
Balance is a valid critique, but 10 was just a suggestion based on the 1 server that has upped the limit. The thread is about upping the count in general, not necessarily to 10. The real question is will the gorge become more fun and diverse with more hydras? And how much will marine play suffer in exchange? If there is a net benefit the devs should consider upping the limit, perhaps with some kind of unconventional cost scheme to compensate (ex. increasing price with increasing number of hydras)
A hydra/whip/turret/Babblers eats up a lot more CPU power compared to anything else really. Mostly due to the dynamic area scanning they do to track and shoot at targets with the snarks (babblers) also doing the constant pathfinding at that
It really depends on how you define PVE.
According to wikipedia the term ogrinates from MMORPGs games, but you could also use the term to describe "combat in a singleplayer game" and then I could name a lot of examples.
Dark souls like games are very popular at the moment. In these type of games, you have to learn how the PVE works and react to it accordingly. It feels rewarding, if you press the right buttons at the right moment and accomplish something with it.
The bosses in dark souls always follow a pattern, which you can observe and learn how to react to it. For example, they will shout a specific voice line and you know that they're about to charge in your reaction, in which you case you have to dodge roll.
In NS2 the only ways to interact with whips as marine is to:
a) stand in their range and take damage
b) shoot them from a distance
As alien the only ways you can interact with sentries is to:
a) be in range and constantly take damge
b) attack the battery
c) spore to disable them
They're just poorly implemented and dull imo. These mechanics should have (better) patterns, that you can follow, react to and improve on.
It would feel more rewarding as a marine, if you could dodge a whip attack while you're in an engagements with aliens, instead of just taking the damage and hoping that your commander meds you.
In MOBAs the enemy teams creeps are practically helpless without hero support, meaning that you can kill every creep without losing a single hp. You have full control over them not dealing damage to you, because you know how they work react to them accordingly.
You abuse your own creeps as damage soaks and try to kill enemy creeps with your last hit to get gold. Also you can use creeps as blocks for other heros. There are a lot of mechanics on which you can improve on behind the MOBA PVE, which makes interaction with it interesting.
I think it is bad for the game, if you try to balance unfun mechanics in a way that they shouldn't be used. Take them out of the game if they're not fun and therefore not properly balanced, because these things are noob traps.
I still want to know.
I literally gave you an example of better PVE right above your post. However, I don't want more PVE or boost PVE, I just want the existing PVE to be fun by adding depth to it.
If you want an example for multiplayer, then I'll say World of Warcraft. If you want a multiplayer FPS example, then I'll say left for dead.
Maybe I was not clear. I was looking for an example from another ga My first problem with this statement is that whips are horrible. So often in my experience you can run right by a single whip, or a field of whips and not get hit once. Other times you just die in the field of whips.
This would be better that what we have. At least it would be interactive in a way, as opposed to shooting what is mostly an inanimate object. Even though this would be better than what we have, this does not sound like good PvE to me.
Maybe I am too biased. That is why I want to see an example of good PvE in another game.
L4D:
Compare that to the NS2 whip. It would read something like:
"Don't get close to a whip or it will hit you or not"
I get your point and all and I agree, it's far more interesting than a static object, but a better example might be something that wasn't designed for human players to jump in and out of to play.
I could bring wow raid bosses as example for good PVE. I could even imagine jumping into the role of a raid boss against 25 other player, if it wasn't balanced so that you can not win as the PVE boss.
Anyway, I've tested the whip and it works pretty reliable in terms of hitting. The animations seem a bit off - especially when biling.
The AI could use some tweaks, e.g. not to use bile bomb against you when you don't have armor left, which it knows about, because of health bars.
But I really think that these mechanics need better feedback on what they're doing.
Another thing would be sentries. I see no reason to have three sentries around one battery. I guess it was meant to keep some sort of strategic choice on how you place and orient your sentries, but in 9 out 10 times, you place them so that they all point at the sentry batterry, so why not just make it 1 sentry that turns 360 degree and is supported by up to 3 small sentry batteries that you can't hide behind, but destory to decrease its energy !threshhold!, so that turning and shooting costs battery energy which regenerates over time, or via power surge. If it runs low on battery energy then it turns off.
The important part is now to make the sentry turn so slow, so that you can alway overcome the sentry and they're only able to hit when they have support. The sentry needs a windup time before shooting, slower turning and maybe a laser that indicates where it's aiming at. It would need of lot free space around it to be placed, so you can't just drop it in a corner.
Or what about remote controlled hydras? That's how I'd have loved to interact with the PVE in this game.
NS2's PvE is more like RTS PvE. RTS PvE is not much fun, and FPS PvE is not really workable into NS2. I could be wrong.
You're right there with the RTS PVE, but I could see FPS PvE working, if they're just there to make engagements harder, but not impossible. You should always be able to overcome them with no health loss, so that they're just a tool that increases the chances of winning engagements. I would then also hard limit whips to 2 initial whips and +1 for every additional hive, so you can't spam them, which means that 1 whip in a room can be meaningful, while being affordable.
Oups, should be fixed now.
#RollBackToNS1
Electrify was probably the worst feature of NS1.