Ok, I am tired of these arguments about this feature. I no longer give a damn what the devs decide. Its their game, they can do what they want, I am fine either way. I am only saying we should give this idea a shot.
I wish this had been the stance taken by the individuals who complained until this "feature" was implemented. It turns out this wasn't just a dev decision, but the result of people complaining about something they didn't like - how it worked was, from all appearances, how they wanted it, and they changed it in response to player feedback.
So it's pretty ludicrous how insistent all of the pro-timer folks that we now give in to what the devs wants, considering the impetus for this worthless change was them complaining about what the devs wanted...
If you want to give the idea a shot, it's simple! Just do all of the things this change could possibly do (waiting, doing something else after each craft, whatever floats your boat). And leave the rest of us out of it...
Although i understand some of the arguments for the added wait times of creating important items, i think it needs to be rare and not just a slight inconvenience. i just restarted to check it out and it really kills the flow of the early game. You start, see what materials you need, go get em, and then go to make it just to wait for an arbitrary amount of time for some tool. I understand waiting for something more complicated like the seaglide, seamoth, and cyclops but not for the very beginning tools. Plus, I'm not young anymore and do not have as much time as i once did, therefore, adding wait times (although possibly immersive and realistic) is not welcomed except to add a sense of accomplishment for finally getting all of the materials needed for the game changing items. Those wait times could be significant and awesome to watch the creation b/c if I'm made to wait for this all of the time, i better be wow'ed with the cool 3d creation animation or it'll get old real quick.
I have to ask out of pure curiosity, when was it said that it wasn't a dev decision?
... what? It was obviously a dev decision, no one at any point said otherwise. I said it most likely wasn't *just* a dev decision. I mean, obviously it wasn't their their original design, that much isn't controversial.
Do you seriously think they weren't in the slightest bit influenced by things like the constant drum beat of complaints from the usual suspects that the printer was "unrealistic"? Of course, maybe folks like EnglishInfidel were lying when they said their suggestions and feedback were why this happened, I dunno. That's the impression they conveyed, maybe I'm wrong and it's just the devs playing around with the idea - in which case feedback on it being bad is something they are probably open to receiving, no?
I have to ask out of pure curiosity, when was it said that it wasn't a dev decision?
... what? It was obviously a dev decision, no one at any point said otherwise. I said it wasn't *just* a dev decision, it was obviously not their original design. Do you seriously think they weren't in the slightest bit influenced by things like the constant drum beat of complaints from the usual suspects that the printer was "unrealistic"? Of course, maybe folks like EnglishInfidel were lying when they said their suggestions and feedback were why this happened, I dunno. That's the impression they conveyed, maybe I'm wrong.
Sorry, I misread. Although I'm secretly hoping this is just the opening to fabricator upgrades.
I personally don't see the way the wait adds anything to the game. If you wanted to add something as an element of gameplay you'd be much better off changing how much energy an item costs to craft. Right now it takes 210 seconds to build a seaglide, but it takes as much power to build one as it does to cook a fish in about 5 seconds.
And batch-crafting. Seriously.
On the other hand, it's not like I'm going to build more than one seaglide or propulsion cannon since those aren't dropped upon death.
All in all, unless we get something that adds urgency, such as being attacked in your base; this is nothing but unnecessary tedium.
Honestly, I don't want to see timers because I want to spend as much time as I can in the ocean. I think the argument of "going and doing stuff while the crafter works." is pretty weak as well. Usually when I'm crafting something, it's because I need it to continue my exploration.
We already have devices that reward a bit of patience (see the battery rechargers, medkit dispensers and water purifiers), and I don't see what making me wait for my titanium from wreckage is going to add beyond my restlessly pacing around my base. Instead of swimming. And exploring. And doing the stuff that is unique and beautiful to this game.
As much as i like the instant crafting this is a good change. But some of the crafting times need to be turned down a little bit like for the welder not 90 seconds but maybe like 30.
I don't se how waiting for 3 minutes adds anything at all when you have a whole ocean to explore. I don't want to wait around to be able to build special items. Besides it's a futuristic fabricator capable to build very advanced items with great speed
Make it a sodding option in the options menu. As for me, gimme my instant crafting, please; just gimme my damn tools so I can get back out there and explore...
Why oh why am I playing a steam game if I want to gather materials and then alt tab for a few minutes to wait for my stuff? I'm not playing FarmVille. I don't want to wait for some arbitrary timer, I want to explore.
Why oh why am I playing a steam game if I want to gather materials and then alt tab for a few minutes to wait for my stuff? I'm not playing FarmVille. I don't want to wait for some arbitrary timer, I want to explore.
Not all games that make you wait are freemium bullshit games. That's kind of insulting to a lot of really good games that give you long waits for making stuff.
I've been playing Subnautica for ~6 months, and recently discovered the /r/subnautica subreddit, so I post there now and again. I haven't been here before today because I haven't really felt a need to do so. I registered just to vote on this poll, and I don't see a problem with that, if this is the only place where my opinion will be noticed by devs.
After all, that's why that's why this poll exists; to collect player feedback. Not so forum vets can circlejerk their own niche opinions.
Sorry if we're disrupting your hegemony.
I voted no, or at the very least, make "instant crafting" a toggle-able option for those masochistic enough to want it.
People endorsing it because they personally "like it" doesn't necessarily make it a "good idea."
Some brilliant arguments against excessive wait times have already been made, and I support them.
At the point we are constructing things at the molecular level and handwaving all the other sci-fi notions, there's no point in arguing "realism." What it boils down to is player fun and convenience. Implementing unnecessary wait times doesn't make the game "more realistic," it just makes it "less fun." Which should be, at all times, the foremost consideration for game designers.
A developer's goal is making games that people will enjoy enough to buy. Subnautica is that, and it is obviously doing well.
If you needlessly alter a game in mid-development, you risk alienating the majority of players who already like where you're going, and losing the momentum that is essential to the success of an Early Access title. I hope they keep that in mind before introducing even more radical gameplay adjustments. Remember, it's never too late to amend a Steam review.
I prefer instant crafting times because I dislike waiting around after I collected all the resources. I tend to try and finish a project before moving on to the next, and I dislike starting the next project while waiting for the first to complete, and after a short time stopping the second project to go back to the now finished first project.
I think if there were a crafting queue, and storage for finished projects, and multiple passes to counter problems with adding items to the queue in the wrong order, and the possibility of dumping materials into some sort of crafting sources storage, and the possibility of slowly adding resources over time while crafting, I might like it.
It would probably change my playstyle from
1. gather all resources
2. check all the boxes for stuff I know I put somewhere but cant remember where
3. craft
to a more mixed version, where I would gather a few resources, start the crafting, finish a few percent while gathering more resources, and so on, with the crafting time diminishing by finished percent, so that I would only have to wait if I already had all the resources present, and if I were only missing a few resources I could start the crafting already, and then would not have to wait much longer after adding the last few bits.
I voted instant because I'm not sure there is a very big difference between this and just building more boxes and maybe make the labels cheaper. Or add automatic labels to all boxes.
I wouldn't mind the wait times if there was some sort of automation. Maybe have that claw arm in the wrecks be something that can grab resources from any locker in a room and you can queue up 5 or 6 things then go do some stuff and come back. 3 minutes is an awkward time to wait and too short to get anything done outside the base before it finishes.
It never was a game where one needs to rush. This way, game mechanics tells us a story of itself instead of being instant thing. I see it as another layer of planning.
Side note, UWE developers listen to the community (not a frequent thing on one hand but there is a reason for it on the other thing) but lately seems like everyone knows better than artist who creates masterpiece. Would call for a bit more pragmatism from community.
Arbitrary and pointless wait times are arbitrary and pointless, not fun. This game is really good, don't listen to a tiny subset of users who want to change that.
I think it would be fun to be able to schedule craftings, you supply the materials needed, craft dependencies first then schedule the main item etc, that way you could setup crating for the time you are out exploring. The downside would be to make sure you have enough energy, say Item1{time:5,power10} have it so that it shows if you will run out of energy, give indicator of how much energy usage there is, positive/negative.
As long as there is some new mechanics introduced with it I'm for it.
Explain why you are for it or against it, and don't say you just don't like to wait lol, please explain why you are against it with a more valid reason then that.
Okay, how about it's no fun to wait? What does increased crafting time add to the game except more time spent not playing? Best case scenario is that it wasn't an important craft item so I just go out and do whatever without any downside at all. Worst case scenario is I'm stuck twiddling my thumbs in a base because I can't go do what I planned to do until an item finishes crafting. There's no penalty for poor planning, except losing a bit of daylight (and again, night time is just frustrating because you can hardly see in some biomes, not difficult). There's no gameplay with a crafting delay, just a barrier to gameplay.
Realism in regards to time is already thrown out the window in this game unless you start making night and day take many real hours instead of the time it takes now.
Realism is a sliding scale, not black and white. (The day/night cycle needs to be made longer, and I hope it will be in the future.)
Also, what about when you are working on a big crafting project and you have to process tons of materials? That already takes a significantly notable amount of time, even just doubling the time from current would make that ridiculous.
This is exactly what needs to happen. I don't know why you would claim "takes a significantly notable amount of time"...
Even on my very first play through I remember being amazed at how fast I had a base and Seamoth.
Currently the immediacy with which you can craft an entire base, be self sufficient, and be half way towards a cyclops is absurd. 3 hours with a little meta-gaming knowledge and you can experience crafting every single thing possible at the moment.
If you aren't willing to see this based on realism (which is always going to be a pointless discussion anyway, it's the dev's game, not ours... though it's a massive weight behind the mod support argument) then how about play through length?
If you can experience everything (sans perhaps seeing every biome in detail, exploring every cave etc.) the game has to offer in a mere few hours, where's the enticement for a second play through?
As the game currently stands, the end-game scenario would have to be 10+ hours long to get a 15 hour length rating on HLTB.
This doesn't add any real realism, and it doesn't add any suspension of disbelief for everyone either. In fact it can break it because now I'm going to sit around and wait, maybe alt tab or look at my phone until it's done crafting, taking me away from the immersion of the game.
Starting a base or making a Seamoth is not what I meant by large crafting project. I'm talking about when you are making lots of stuff, or planning on expanding your base into a large network of glass corridors or something, and just need tons of things made. I spend enough time gathering resources and crafting as is.
Play through length. This is the worst argument I've seen on this! Adding more play through length is great...when its done with more content. This isn't more content. This is taking the exact same content and making a "play through" take longer. I don't want more play through length when that additional length is just waiting. And don't say that you can go do other stuff in game while you wait, because at that point, you've negated this increase in play through length by doing pretty much exactly what would go down if you didn't have increased waits, so at that point you don't even have increased play through length in that scenario.
Whether I experience everything in 5 hours or 15 hours, it does have a bearing on my enticement to play through again: I'm less likely to play through again if the difference between a short version play through and a long version play through is additional waiting. Making the game longer by extending crafting times is going to make not want to play more, because now I'm actually playing less per amount of time committed to the game. You want more play through length? Yes! Let's do that! But with actual content that produces more enjoyment for everyone, not waiting around.
If anything I could see longer craft times being an option you can turn on.
Beyond that, taking away the shorter crafting hurts some people's enjoyment, but as others said, not implementing it scenario can be bypassed by just waiting if you want wait times. So really, the only way to get both camps the conditions they prefer is to either not implement the time change, or to implement an option for it.
This is exactly what needs to happen. I don't know why you would claim "takes a significantly notable amount of time"...
Even on my very first play through I remember being amazed at how fast I had a base and Seamoth.
Do you serously think that making crafting times longer will significantly affect the game length? Even if so, it would bring the quality of the time down. Exploration is the main idea in this game, why would you want to keep people in the base staring at the replicator.
I do agree though that some things are done too fast, like getting Seamoth and building base, with slow gameplay it takes no more than 10 hours, some could concider that "endgame" already. If I would really have to find things to artificially make the game longer, I would make the exploring aspects more difficult and time consuming. double the mount of blueprints required, oxygen consumption in depth, better suit for 200+ meter deep.
Oh ya, and people totally said this would increase the difficulty of the game, maybe not everyone on pro time side made it, but it has been said here. If it actually reasonably did so, it would be a decent point actually, but I fail to see how it does that besides making you lose food/water while you now sit around for stuff to craft (which further into the game, means you're at a base of some kind, and food/water may not even be an issue there).
I feel like there should be a crafting time for everything even water and food. Its just to easy the way it is, lets just print out 20 water 20 cured fish in 1 min. Maybe just add it to hardcore or somthing because once you get to a certain point in the game your basically a god.
I feel like there should be a crafting time for everything even water and food. Its just to easy the way it is, lets just print out 20 water 20 cured fish in 1 min. Maybe just add it to hardcore or somthing because once you get to a certain point in the game your basically a god.
And here's an example of someone claiming it makes the game harder. Somehow.
Since we've got you here can you perhaps explain the logic? Because it doesn't make any sense to me. Waiting is pretty much the easiest activity there is, that's why it's so boring - how does making a greater percentage of the game mindlessly easy make it... less easy, overall?
The way it is right now you can make all the food and water you need for a month in under a min or 2. With a longer crafting time you wouldn't be making a months worth of food, you would only make what you need making it harder. You cant tell me the ability to instantly craft things is fair.
Comments
I have to ask out of pure curiosity, when was it said that it wasn't a dev decision?
Also, on where this thread is heading:
... what? It was obviously a dev decision, no one at any point said otherwise. I said it most likely wasn't *just* a dev decision. I mean, obviously it wasn't their their original design, that much isn't controversial.
Do you seriously think they weren't in the slightest bit influenced by things like the constant drum beat of complaints from the usual suspects that the printer was "unrealistic"? Of course, maybe folks like EnglishInfidel were lying when they said their suggestions and feedback were why this happened, I dunno. That's the impression they conveyed, maybe I'm wrong and it's just the devs playing around with the idea - in which case feedback on it being bad is something they are probably open to receiving, no?
Sorry, I misread. Although I'm secretly hoping this is just the opening to fabricator upgrades.
And batch-crafting. Seriously.
On the other hand, it's not like I'm going to build more than one seaglide or propulsion cannon since those aren't dropped upon death.
All in all, unless we get something that adds urgency, such as being attacked in your base; this is nothing but unnecessary tedium.
We already have devices that reward a bit of patience (see the battery rechargers, medkit dispensers and water purifiers), and I don't see what making me wait for my titanium from wreckage is going to add beyond my restlessly pacing around my base. Instead of swimming. And exploring. And doing the stuff that is unique and beautiful to this game.
Not all games that make you wait are freemium bullshit games. That's kind of insulting to a lot of really good games that give you long waits for making stuff.
This is a gr8 idea. That way, everyone's a winner. "Petit déjeuner" as Del Boy would say.
After all, that's why that's why this poll exists; to collect player feedback. Not so forum vets can circlejerk their own niche opinions.
Sorry if we're disrupting your hegemony.
I voted no, or at the very least, make "instant crafting" a toggle-able option for those masochistic enough to want it.
People endorsing it because they personally "like it" doesn't necessarily make it a "good idea."
Some brilliant arguments against excessive wait times have already been made, and I support them.
At the point we are constructing things at the molecular level and handwaving all the other sci-fi notions, there's no point in arguing "realism." What it boils down to is player fun and convenience. Implementing unnecessary wait times doesn't make the game "more realistic," it just makes it "less fun." Which should be, at all times, the foremost consideration for game designers.
A developer's goal is making games that people will enjoy enough to buy. Subnautica is that, and it is obviously doing well.
If you needlessly alter a game in mid-development, you risk alienating the majority of players who already like where you're going, and losing the momentum that is essential to the success of an Early Access title. I hope they keep that in mind before introducing even more radical gameplay adjustments. Remember, it's never too late to amend a Steam review.
I think if there were a crafting queue, and storage for finished projects, and multiple passes to counter problems with adding items to the queue in the wrong order, and the possibility of dumping materials into some sort of crafting sources storage, and the possibility of slowly adding resources over time while crafting, I might like it.
It would probably change my playstyle from
1. gather all resources
2. check all the boxes for stuff I know I put somewhere but cant remember where
3. craft
to a more mixed version, where I would gather a few resources, start the crafting, finish a few percent while gathering more resources, and so on, with the crafting time diminishing by finished percent, so that I would only have to wait if I already had all the resources present, and if I were only missing a few resources I could start the crafting already, and then would not have to wait much longer after adding the last few bits.
I voted instant because I'm not sure there is a very big difference between this and just building more boxes and maybe make the labels cheaper. Or add automatic labels to all boxes.
It never was a game where one needs to rush. This way, game mechanics tells us a story of itself instead of being instant thing. I see it as another layer of planning.
Side note, UWE developers listen to the community (not a frequent thing on one hand but there is a reason for it on the other thing) but lately seems like everyone knows better than artist who creates masterpiece. Would call for a bit more pragmatism from community.
Best regards!
As long as there is some new mechanics introduced with it I'm for it.
This doesn't add any real realism, and it doesn't add any suspension of disbelief for everyone either. In fact it can break it because now I'm going to sit around and wait, maybe alt tab or look at my phone until it's done crafting, taking me away from the immersion of the game.
Starting a base or making a Seamoth is not what I meant by large crafting project. I'm talking about when you are making lots of stuff, or planning on expanding your base into a large network of glass corridors or something, and just need tons of things made. I spend enough time gathering resources and crafting as is.
Play through length. This is the worst argument I've seen on this! Adding more play through length is great...when its done with more content. This isn't more content. This is taking the exact same content and making a "play through" take longer. I don't want more play through length when that additional length is just waiting. And don't say that you can go do other stuff in game while you wait, because at that point, you've negated this increase in play through length by doing pretty much exactly what would go down if you didn't have increased waits, so at that point you don't even have increased play through length in that scenario.
Whether I experience everything in 5 hours or 15 hours, it does have a bearing on my enticement to play through again: I'm less likely to play through again if the difference between a short version play through and a long version play through is additional waiting. Making the game longer by extending crafting times is going to make not want to play more, because now I'm actually playing less per amount of time committed to the game. You want more play through length? Yes! Let's do that! But with actual content that produces more enjoyment for everyone, not waiting around.
If anything I could see longer craft times being an option you can turn on.
Beyond that, taking away the shorter crafting hurts some people's enjoyment, but as others said, not implementing it scenario can be bypassed by just waiting if you want wait times. So really, the only way to get both camps the conditions they prefer is to either not implement the time change, or to implement an option for it.
Do you serously think that making crafting times longer will significantly affect the game length? Even if so, it would bring the quality of the time down. Exploration is the main idea in this game, why would you want to keep people in the base staring at the replicator.
I do agree though that some things are done too fast, like getting Seamoth and building base, with slow gameplay it takes no more than 10 hours, some could concider that "endgame" already. If I would really have to find things to artificially make the game longer, I would make the exploring aspects more difficult and time consuming. double the mount of blueprints required, oxygen consumption in depth, better suit for 200+ meter deep.
And here's an example of someone claiming it makes the game harder. Somehow.
Since we've got you here can you perhaps explain the logic? Because it doesn't make any sense to me. Waiting is pretty much the easiest activity there is, that's why it's so boring - how does making a greater percentage of the game mindlessly easy make it... less easy, overall?