Please listen

MartigenMartigen Australia Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2714Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 784 Advanced user
Ok. Deaf ears. Let's try again.

Perhaps a little more descriptive.

If you want to save what is left of NS2:
  • Remove bots
  • Restore auto-balance limiting spawns

Oh, and for good measure, though the damage has been done:
  • Add arcade servers back into main

Or, you know, we can call it quits now.

http://steamcharts.com/app/4920

stf // martigen
RadimaX
«1

Comments

  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    July 2015 205.6 -12.8 -5.88% 446

    We shall see.. but I fear you're right, and hope you're not
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    September 2015 190.51 -28.51 -13.02% 416

    Oh my god, but, wait.
    This was in the "pre Arcade Aera"
    And it looks like this patch killed the game that time:
    http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/138252/275-feedback

    Well, looks like you liked the changes that time @martigen
    image
    .trixX.
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 571 Advanced user
    Honestly I think stopping the weekly updates then introducing huge imbalance that made each round terrible were very real mystakes
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Honestly I think stopping the weekly updates then introducing huge imbalance that made each round terrible were very real mystakes

    Like >90% of my posts are since then :D

    EDIT:
    Btw, bots are cool, but it would be nice to see some kind if vote control over them.... Difficulty (needs implementation i guess), Kick all and Populate server
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    HEllrunner2k
  • YojimboYojimbo England Join Date: 2009-03-19 Member: 66806Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 1,252 Advanced user
    To be fair, everyone needs to take into account that summer is in FULL swing (maybe not the UK), numbers will always dip across the board.

    That strange otherworld called the outside and you know, holidays and such.
    Today's rookies are tomorrow's vets.

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    George Carlin.
    .trixX.VetinariFoxyNarfwak
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    But NS is life. NS is love.
    Who needs the outside? Filthy casuals...
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
    cooliticAurOn2
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Just because we don't reply, doesn't mean we are not reading, discussing, debating internally. We also talk with people in the wider community and look at our internal stats to try and make the best calls we can.
    Martigen wrote: »

    Actually if you compare us to last year, even with the latest July numbers, we've been up on last year's numbers for the last 5 months in a row. Summer is typically the worst time of year for multiplayer games numbers, so to have increased player numbers compared to 5 months of last year is actually a good thing. Admittedly, it needs to be much more than this to keep NS2 alive, but it's showing progress is working. If the game was dying, we'd have lower numbers for summer than last year.

    Some people seem to forget, the entire NS2 Dev team is now made up of Vets from NS1, NS2 pub and comp play who still play NS2 and want the best for it. We might not always agree with the direction and issues, but it's always been like that since NS1. We just have to do what we think is best, based off community feedback & discussion, evidence from stats and our own thoughts and ideas.


    Let us agree you try to do what you think is best for player retention, not best for the games quality.
    Alite
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    In theory, those two should be the same... But sure, theoretically there is no difference between practice and theory :D
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & QA Lead, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts Posts: 3,003 admin
    Let us agree you try to do what you think is best for player retention, not best for the games quality.

    So you think we're consciously, actively, coming up with plans and means to try to make the game we all love worse?

    If NS2 fails, follow my Nuke From Orbit Guide.

    NS2 Discord: https://discord.gg/0TKQwZWu7JEPeAgW

    Subnautica Discord: https://discord.gg/subnautica

    HEllrunner2k
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Let us agree you try to do what you think is best for player retention, not best for the games quality.

    So you think we're consciously, actively, coming up with plans and means to try to make the game we all love worse?

    As I said in the other thread: Yes because I think you think it helps your goal. It is all about player renention and you seem to think dumbing the game down helps with that. Maybe you are right, but the games quality suffers from it.

    Obraxis but how can you consider a hitbox that covers the model much much worse than before an improvement?
    Alite
  • MoFo1MoFo1 United States Join Date: 2014-07-25 Member: 197612Members Posts: 729 Advanced user
    @Obraxis. I don't think it's that you're actively trying to make the game worse, you guys just don't seem to be thinking at all about what you've done.

    One example would be the bots... We can't vote to turn them off, can't vote for a vs marine/alien bots mode, and admins can't even set up bots the way they want anymore (the way they previously were on TA and TF)

    You just thew them in with the worst implementation imaginable and left them..

    Same for hp bars... No attempt to lock them to the crosshair or hud (so they don't provide tracking assist) no attempt to make them fit with the look of the rest of the ui.. Just slapped em in and there ya go...

    Then things like the ninja hitbox change (which made pubs pure **** and no doubt drove some players away) and the way you "balanced" it with more skulk hp. (which introduces other balance problems)

    You have to admit that in some ways NS2 has been made much much worse.

    The_Welsh_WizardHEllrunner2kmAL1CEHandschuh
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 772 Advanced user
    I find that changes to gameplay suck at 1st (because my playstyle still sits in 'old mode') but after awhile i adept and it doesnt bother me anymore.
    This goes for anti-fadeball, healthbar, hitboxes, skulkhp etc.
    grrrr im beast
    Bicsum
  • CCTEECCTEE Join Date: 2013-06-20 Member: 185634Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 772 Advanced user
    @The_Welsh_Wizard Disagreeing with a factual statement about my personal experience doesn't make sense! :wink:
    grrrr im beast
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Members, Reinforced - Supporter Posts: 773 Advanced user
    Haha, I disagreed because I don't like that it doesn't bother you anymore.
    HEllrunner2k
  • AeglosAeglos Join Date: 2010-04-06 Member: 71189Members Posts: 627 Advanced user
    Obraxis wrote: »
    Just because we don't reply, doesn't mean we are not reading, discussing, debating internally. We also talk with people in the wider community and look at our internal stats to try and make the best calls we can.
    Martigen wrote: »

    Actually if you compare us to last year, even with the latest July numbers, we've been up on last year's numbers for the last 5 months in a row. Summer is typically the worst time of year for multiplayer games numbers, so to have increased player numbers compared to 5 months of last year is actually a good thing. Admittedly, it needs to be much more than this to keep NS2 alive, but it's showing progress is working. If the game was dying, we'd have lower numbers for summer than last year.

    Oh please. Player numbers do not compare favourably at all now. Unless you have a 2nd Derelict in the works, player numbers are on course to decrease year on year in August. You have already lost your heralded 12% year on year gain in July.

    And sure, ignore that for the same time last year we had no updates at all for months. Of course there is progress compared to being at a standstill. But how much of that is sustainable? Was there a noticeable surge in rookies? Are the rookies that stay making up for the veterans that left? Has there been an increase in veterans leaving? A year on year decrease is to be expected, but is it spiking up after certain updates? None of these is visible in steam charts, so you may still be right, but please do provide some statistics, because if you are pointing to steam charts, its not backing you up.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    bonage wrote: »
    Are you are trying to eventually hit the reset button on NS2 and relaunch the game?

    This is what I'm hoping for to happen with the end of phase 3.

    Rereleasing the game as "Natural Selection II - Enhanced Edition" in the same way Divinity Original Sin did.

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/230230/ (Divinity: Original Sin (Classic))
    http://store.steampowered.com/app/373420/ (Divinity: Original Sin - Enhanced Edition)

    New game, new release date, new reviews, new players.
    ResistorRevanCorana
  • .trixX..trixX. Budapest Join Date: 2007-10-11 Member: 62605Members Posts: 856 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    If I have to pay for an EE, cya never again guys :D
    NO Cyril, when they're dead they're just hookers!
  • dePARAdePARA Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Members, Squad Five Blue Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    And instead of becoming more open ...

    Funny comment btw in this context.

    image
  • TinkiTinki Join Date: 2013-12-03 Member: 189715Members Posts: 110 Fully active user
    @Biscum, Well at this point it's pretty safe to say that NS2 is a big sandbox for the devs. Some people said it months ago, when the first changes against the current player base were made (ns2large or the comp saga). Since then a lot of updates went to that direction : dev idea -> update -> uproar -> new update... And these changes had a huge impact on the gameplay and weren't what the players ask for (exept the arcade browser which was more of a personal vendetta).
    For a dev team, having 200 beta testers is already enough.

    Although I don't know what is next, either F2P, enhanced edition like you said, or even a NS3... But I really don't see UWE investing in a dev team just to grow the player base of a 4 year old game at 300 players.
    Zefram.trixX.G_LockMe9a
  • RevanCoranaRevanCorana Join Date: 2015-08-14 Member: 207125Members Posts: 571 Advanced user
    edited August 2016
    What UWE communicated a few months ago was that the PDT's task would be to make NS3, as in it's too risky and expensive to make a full new game so just tweak the current game until the playerbase becomes stable and hopefully more fun instead.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    @Tniki It's Bicsum* ;).

    Other than that, I'm not sure what to answer. Let's see what'll happen.
    Tinki
  • cooliticcoolitic Right behind you Join Date: 2013-04-02 Member: 184609Members Posts: 1,684 Advanced user
    Bicsum wrote: »
    This is what I'm hoping for to happen with the end of phase 3.

    Oh crap I entirely forgot about the phases thing. Remind me what the individual goals of each of them were again?
    When life gives you lemons, throw it back and demand chocolate.


  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold Posts: 1,014 Advanced user
    coolitic wrote: »
    Bicsum wrote: »
    This is what I'm hoping for to happen with the end of phase 3.

    Oh crap I entirely forgot about the phases thing. Remind me what the individual goals of each of them were again?

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    .trixX.coolitic
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