Would the flow of the game be improved if you got the Cyclops before the Seamoth?
TwevOWNED
Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219546Members
Join Date: 2016-07-04 Member: 219546Members
From what I've gathered playing so far is that the most difficult point in the game is going from getting the Seamoth to finding the Moonpool/Seamoth Upgrade Station. At the point of constructing a Moth, it basically serves as a glorified transport vehicle from point A to point B as you search for the way to make it go deeper. From my initial blind playthrough and watching my friends play the game blind as well, the Seamoth served no unique purpose. We'd take it out to the far biomes, drop as deep as we could, then abandon it and go make a seabase underneath and just use that. In effect it only saved a couple batteries in contrast to a Seaglide trip before we found the recharger, or as a portable Oxygen refiller if we didn't have a seabase and felt confident we could leave it out in the open without it being attacked. (which was only in a sparse couple of places) In short, it didn't really help you go anywhere you hadn't gone before.
This is of course a stark contrast to when you get a Moonpool and Upgrade Station, as then your up until now glorified taxi becomes an actual unit of exploration. Hull Reinforcement eliminates all damage from lower predators like sharks and stalkers, 900 meter depth can very easily be achieved from Lithium in the mushroom forests, and Leviathans can be shrugged off with the zapper. It becomes so laughably invulnerable that finding the cyclops parts no longer feels special really, as you cannot actually be destroyed by any predators in the areas where the parts drop. (Mushroom forest, Plateaus, and Islands from what we've found) Not to mention that the mothership feel of the Cyclops travelling to a location and then deploying the Seamoth to go deeper (as would make sense due to smaller craft handling pressure better) is made irrelevant as you will likely find the Cyclops upgrade while you are looking for the Moonpool, all but negating the Seamoth's existence when going into the deep zones.
This all leads me to the main point I hope to make in the post, that the difficulty curve in the game as of now seems to be two flat lines separated by a steep climb when trying to find the Moonpool/Upgrade Station. Now, how could that be changed? I've been researching the history of the game, and way back when it seems that the Cyclops was originally rather weak, as travelling below 100 meters was risking catastrophic failure via breaches. This was changed over time to what we have now, but I'm thinking what if its initial strength wasn't the issue, but rather the position of where you got it in the game. Now I'm not saying give players a current version Cyclops right out of the gate, but rather a modified one that fills the purpose that the base Seamoth serves now and then some. The Lifepod serves as the mothership during the early game, and the current Cyclops as it at the later stages, but there's no central point of action inbetween.
Which leads me to my inquiry: Why not turn the Lifepod into a mobile base from blueprints where you would normally get the Seamoth now? Of course, it would have limitations, not being able to build inside it (like the lifepod), and not being able to pass below a depth of say 100 meters without emergency buoys being deployed. However this would not only offer the same services the current Seamoth offers plus the edition of a mobile fabricator, (which to be honest we already have, just carry around the parts and throw it up in a one room base, tear down when done) and more importantly it brings a clear transition from scraping by to survive in the shallows to exploring the ocean in your mothership. This also allows the Seamoth to fill the roll of a mid game exploration vessel much better than in it's current form. Depth stats could be increased to say 4-500 when constructed, allowing for a deployable scout ship to go deeper than the mothership can to collect resources. The mothership could then be get upgrades from fragments found in very dangerous places to disable the safety buoys and upgrade into the current Cyclops we have today, which would signal that endgame has come.
In conclusion, I love the game. I've never felt more sure of an early access purchase than I have with this one, these are just the things that pop into my head when I reflect on how to potentially improve the experience in line with how the devs mention things in their Trello cards, specifically the Cyclops should be the mothership with the seamoth dependent on it. It would also make the idea of the Cyclops being the only thing that can view beacons (as mentioned here https://trello.com/c/f0gwktVZ/279-making-cyclops-relevant) much more feasible due to getting it much earlier.
This is of course a stark contrast to when you get a Moonpool and Upgrade Station, as then your up until now glorified taxi becomes an actual unit of exploration. Hull Reinforcement eliminates all damage from lower predators like sharks and stalkers, 900 meter depth can very easily be achieved from Lithium in the mushroom forests, and Leviathans can be shrugged off with the zapper. It becomes so laughably invulnerable that finding the cyclops parts no longer feels special really, as you cannot actually be destroyed by any predators in the areas where the parts drop. (Mushroom forest, Plateaus, and Islands from what we've found) Not to mention that the mothership feel of the Cyclops travelling to a location and then deploying the Seamoth to go deeper (as would make sense due to smaller craft handling pressure better) is made irrelevant as you will likely find the Cyclops upgrade while you are looking for the Moonpool, all but negating the Seamoth's existence when going into the deep zones.
This all leads me to the main point I hope to make in the post, that the difficulty curve in the game as of now seems to be two flat lines separated by a steep climb when trying to find the Moonpool/Upgrade Station. Now, how could that be changed? I've been researching the history of the game, and way back when it seems that the Cyclops was originally rather weak, as travelling below 100 meters was risking catastrophic failure via breaches. This was changed over time to what we have now, but I'm thinking what if its initial strength wasn't the issue, but rather the position of where you got it in the game. Now I'm not saying give players a current version Cyclops right out of the gate, but rather a modified one that fills the purpose that the base Seamoth serves now and then some. The Lifepod serves as the mothership during the early game, and the current Cyclops as it at the later stages, but there's no central point of action inbetween.
Which leads me to my inquiry: Why not turn the Lifepod into a mobile base from blueprints where you would normally get the Seamoth now? Of course, it would have limitations, not being able to build inside it (like the lifepod), and not being able to pass below a depth of say 100 meters without emergency buoys being deployed. However this would not only offer the same services the current Seamoth offers plus the edition of a mobile fabricator, (which to be honest we already have, just carry around the parts and throw it up in a one room base, tear down when done) and more importantly it brings a clear transition from scraping by to survive in the shallows to exploring the ocean in your mothership. This also allows the Seamoth to fill the roll of a mid game exploration vessel much better than in it's current form. Depth stats could be increased to say 4-500 when constructed, allowing for a deployable scout ship to go deeper than the mothership can to collect resources. The mothership could then be get upgrades from fragments found in very dangerous places to disable the safety buoys and upgrade into the current Cyclops we have today, which would signal that endgame has come.
In conclusion, I love the game. I've never felt more sure of an early access purchase than I have with this one, these are just the things that pop into my head when I reflect on how to potentially improve the experience in line with how the devs mention things in their Trello cards, specifically the Cyclops should be the mothership with the seamoth dependent on it. It would also make the idea of the Cyclops being the only thing that can view beacons (as mentioned here https://trello.com/c/f0gwktVZ/279-making-cyclops-relevant) much more feasible due to getting it much earlier.
Comments
I like the idea, but cyclops first I have issues with. An abbreviated version of the 'moth I am fine with.
The life pod as a mobile base is intriguing. A mechanism for towing it around would be lovely. The only problem that I see is getting to the towing point one is likely fairly tech savvy. So do we need to move It?
There are a few places that are either above water, or very close to the surface. The ability to move it, and possibly ground it would suit me better.
Great post. That sums up some things that we've all been thinking.
At one point you were able to build solar panels and other reactors on the outside of the cyclops hull with the builder, and they'd actually power it - during those days I didn't even bother with a base. I just slapped several panels and a nuclear reactor on the hull of the clops and chugged around exploring the subnautican sea. With the advent of the power cell charger, and the fact that charging cells is more efficient than draining them, those days may be returning for me.
The idea would be to have the "lifeclops" (cypod?) effectively replace the current 200 depth limit Seamoth. It wouldn't be able to go further down than a depth of 100 but could serve as a mobile exploration tool or forward base, but has limited storage and no way to build in it so a main seabase would still be required. It could also be smaller than the Cyclops obviously. It should be noted we already pretty much have mobile bases in the early game. It's not hard to carry the 6 titanium, 2 quarts, and 1 glass to throw up a cross connector, hatch, and solar panel, or the 12 titanium, 1 glass, 1 lubricant, and a fish it takes to make a multipurpose room with a bioreactor at the bottom of a trench where the light doesn't reach.
This would also make the Seamoth much more valuable, as before you were diving entirely with the Seaglide from the repurposed pod. Provided the base stats on the moth allow for a more reasonable depth of 500 meters, it becomes strong from the moment you get it rather than just be a water taxi.
Why not a simplified version of a 'clops before the Seamoth. If you really follow logical progression you should be heading to the Aurora to shut off the radiation in as short order as you can. So there is a pressure compensator in the drive room...
Logical progression dictates that we need to be mobile. I can live with the clops slow speed, but it's other issues are still drawbacks for me. Power consumption. Lighting. Visibility when driving it. The Seamoth while mobile should IMHO still be a "luxury" item.
With the removal of MP rooms from beginning tech(presumably other tech we start witn now) I can see where we would need a floating base as it were. Perhaps a previously built cyclops, or a damaged one that could be repaired. Then upgraded as tech was found. I mean if we can see find forklifts/vending or coffee machines in the wreckage then why not a cyclops that needs some welding.
Pretty much what TwevOWNED has posted. I see both sides, and my thoughts earlier were given from the current state of the stable build. 90% of tech in game atm can be farmed, or found in 4 or less hours now. That this will change is understood.
Presumably starting tech will be further pared down in the future. That is where a cyclops would shine especially if it's issues are fixed.
So, again good post (s) OP. Well thought out.
@Qelsar on a side note. I don't even bother with Seamoths anymore. At least not since the power nap update popped. One can just about swim everywhere that most tech is.
I hope Sidchicken is right, that as more/deeper biomes become available, the Cyclops will be more useful and desirable. Because right now there's not much incentive to use it - its too slow, too awkward to control, visibility without cameras is awful, and its fairly fragile. If it were an airplane, we'd call it a hangar queen.
...Then why not beef up the Seamoth (with tougher components and deeper range for the deep tight caves) and make the Cyclops cheaper (simpler components and not as deep of a range)?
It kind of makes sense that the deeper you go the smaller surface area you want. Just a thought.
(Downside, you could be swallowed like a pill by the Sea Dragon.)
I think you only read the title. In the post I explain it wouldn't be an endgame deepsea sub, rather a replacement to the "drive out wherever and abandon the seamoth to build a one room bunker" that the early game is now. Of course getting the current cyclops early would wreck the pacing of the game, that's why I specified.
Thats what led me to build a completely underground base, hidden from view, too. I'd want to be able to detect/contact a rescue party, but avoid detection/contact with any hostiles searching for me. That comm message about "One target remaining" was all the warning I needed to start on a second, more discrete base.
Looking... still looking. Maybe I am too picky. That is one reason I am spending so much time now just really exploring the safe shallows. The various creepvine spots have some curious ins, and outs. Specifically over in what was the radiation zone. The creepvine behind my base now has some curious ins, and outs as well.
Would be neat to figure out how to build, and hide in plain sight.
Add air. Seamoth has bigger inventory but need air tanks. Can hold quite a bit of air.
Cyclops has an air generator. Better speed and manuverability.
Seamoth should be the fast agile fragile option.
Cyclops is the heavy slower tank. But it should still be enjoyable to use, which it currently isnt imo. way to clunky, way to hard to see where im going. With the technology on display in the game, building stuff from pure matter, startrek style. They can make a better designed sub. I still think we need a medium type ship between the seamoth and cyclops.
I personally always found it a bit silly how the seamoth has basically infinite oxygen. That i find more acceptable for Cyclops, bases etc with an actual oxygen generator.
Maybe its also about adding more depth to the game. as in more than just going around smacking sandstone etc for some ore. What if the game had actual mining, machines that mined, so you needed to transport big loads of material. Suddenly the cyclops would be a lot more useful. The problem is, imo that you can have everything in the game in abundance in your inventory.
Imagine if the cyclops were all around better than it is nice, faster, more agile, better to navigate. but could actually go deeper than the seamoth.
Seamoth is very fun to use. Its just about finding ways to make the cyclops fun and useful.
I wouldn't mind needing to surface in the Seamoth every now and again, if I could actually access my PDA while inside of it. Just make sure that the Seamoth's oxygen isn't nerfed to the point where it can't be used as a diving bell. Seriously, even going down to 180m was quite onerous before I got a Seamoth.