A bright future of NS2 or Death?

RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
edited July 2016 in NS2 General Discussion
How many years took it to make just the engine alone? then the maps? then DLC´s? then 300 updates?
Evolve became a free2play game today after player base got below 200 average players. (8000 now)
Let the legacy live on and more people will discover such grate game rather then plummit down to 0.
Their steam charts are similar to the ones of Natural selection 2 as of now we got ruffly 300 players.

Oy1Q1FZ.png

You could get 1$ for this game on a Steam sales but players will not stay due to barely anyone playing it or
get 1$ MANY times over from same players buying skins if game was free & thousands play it all the time.
Maybe that would Increase retention of new players or increase the number of people playing like Evolve now.

i dont like the concept of F2P but got 5000 total hours on ns2, there is no other game i rather play...
However if you "zoom out" and see NS2 in a longer-term view what other options is there really?
Post edited by RadimaX on
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Comments

  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    in 2017 the Upside could be 10.000+ people playing the game, buying skins & decals or other gimmicks instead of like 49.
    Downside is there will be atleast 1% or more who hack and have to be dealt with accordingly (steam got ban feature for this)
    tallhotblonde
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    The problem with free 2 play has been player retention. Why go free 2 play if we can't retain anybody. Player retention has been improved, the tutorial was improved, and game performance has improved.

    I would like to see NS2 get some more improvements before it goes free 2 play. I would really like to see we get the advanced trainings for lifeforms, that were planned at one time. I don't know what happened to that. @BeigeAlert. I would like to see improvements on the hive skill system, which I am told are going to happen now.

    At some point, it doesn't matter how much more you do. It won't help anything. We might be there now, but I don't know. Evolve will be a good case study. Let's see what happens with evolve. What did they do well, and what could they have done better?

    I think early next year would be a good time to make NS2 free 2 play, but that is just my opinion.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
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  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    Evolve: Mega hyped multi million triple A title dropped to 100 average players within 1 year.
    NS2: A indie game with always a low playerbase has still over 300 players each day after 3,5 years.

    Very comparable, NS2 is much more succesfull here in the long run.

    And btw. its funny that someone of the "wooza army" who posted how important a 42 slot server is on one side want NS2 f2p on the other side.
    A f2p game need another serverstructure with matchmaking.
    So you want a f2p NS2? Then say goodbye to all community servers.

    Did you ever play a f2p game?
    Looks like you dont understand how this model work.
    If you want to play a f2p at full potential you must invest way more than 5$.

    Every F2P shooter is just trash and noone cares about Evolve f2p in 3 month anymore.
    image
    AurOn2coolitic
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    Nordic wrote: »
    Player retention has been improved, the tutorial was improved, and game performance has improved.
    I think early next year would be a good time to make NS2 free 2 play, but that is just my opinion.

    Retention improved? (im not sure if we cant get more then 300 players? even after steam sales and me giving away copys to friends for free then im not sure whats wrong.
    Training courses or trackcourse for every lifeform or regular marine/exo/jetpack would maybe help people to understand it more? forgot what UWE they teach us already.


  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    dePARA wrote: »
    Evolve: Mega hyped multi million triple A title dropped to 100 average players within 1 year.
    its funny that someone of the "wooza army" who posted how important a 42 slot server is on one side want NS2 f2p on the other side.
    Every F2P shooter is just trash and noone cares about Evolve f2p in 3 month anymore. NS2 is much more succesfull here in the long run.

    Yes i played F2P today but in 3 months ns2 will have bigger player base then Evolve because of how successful it is, okey lets see about that...
    Woozas Army? that server did not exist the first 2 years i played this game thats why i post my hours its not like i bought ns2 yesterday. 42 players is the maximum slot im not sure about playercount but it must be more then 60 people playing there just not simultaneously without that ONE server im doubtful players search for a nice little 6vs6 but rather stop playing game alltogether, then this community falls back to 240 people (not sure how many rookies but assuming its 100) and out of 140 people some spectating or waiting for game or afk that leaves 100 people active on ns2, i wonder how long community servers would be up for those people not spending a dime to help UWE?

    All f2p games are shit because they make the bare minimum just to be able to sell you ingame items and other stuff, but as ns2 is already epic polished game, adding a f2p component is an option not to farfetched unless they want 0 players that is and you cant sell game copys with that player count or dlcs or even skins for that matter...

    Sure its a controversial idea to have 8000+ people joining over night (its actually 10914 total now since i made the post) but even if 1% bough a skin that give them more then someone like me who bought a copy of this game like 4 years ago or gifted cuple copys to friends.
    Sendz
  • _Grendel__Grendel_ Members Join Date: 2015-05-07 Member: 204238Posts: 87 Advanced user
    I'm not sure if the combat devs ever come by the forums any more, but if they do HEAR MY PLEA! Make combat f2p! It makes so much more sense for combat to be f2p than it does ns2.
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    they got a LOT of new players, but how long are they going to stick around for? Give it a month, and then draw your conclusions.

    Yes i know it seems like alot now, i only said 10.000 in a day because thats litterally what NS2 could have, im assuming 70% stop playing Evolve because its super boring running around with 3 players searching for some monsterdude, but people seem to wanna try a sci-fi alien shooter type of game and it could easily have been ns2, but as a bonus they got all the tactics and strategical components overtime. Assuming only 50% would leave ns2 after trying it when its free just because it is a better game thats thill 5000 potential microtransaction or other ingame item stuff for UWE, not to mention more want to play if its 5000 playercount instead of under 300.

  • DaveodethDaveodeth Members Join Date: 2012-11-21 Member: 172717Posts: 280 Advanced user
    Evolve went F2P because a board somewhere desperately wants to recoup the huge investment that went into that train wreck. It has nothing at all to do with player counts.
    AurOn2coolitic
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Its a little bit naive to think that f2p titles only survive cause they sell useless skins.

    A f2p work like this:
    You have to invest ingame money into stuff like better weapons that gives you a slight advantage.
    While you dont need this ingame money till you reach lvl12, its much harder to equip yourself the higher your rank goes.
    So while your higher rank grants you access to better tech you have to invest REAL money to use this stuff.
    In a MOBA you pay for needed item slots for example or more slots for spells.

    So a f2p game is basicly a demo where you have to pay nonstop the higher you rank.
    5000 hrs in a f2p would be very expensive fun, believe me.
    image
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    people would play ns2 for what it is, with addition of some f2p features like lets say you have 50% jet fuel if your a n00b but they cost 50% less ingame as balance or you have 1 slot for granades until you level up then get 2 slots (this worked couple builds ago and not at all OP) maybe 1 mine then 2 mine then 3 before leveling up and those same points earned by grinding could be BOUGHT in steam giving money to UWE if you wanna pack alot of shit as marine, not sure what to do with aliens but skins/armors alone could be "cool" enough for people to buy just look on the existing ones even veteran players purchased. it would be Free game to play to have a player base and let the game live on, clearly it would be a clusterf*ck in the beginning. Try evolve you will see how much worse it is then ns2, maybe thats why ns2 will succeed far beond aslong its into the public domain people will try it and realize for themselves how much better it is. instead of having people paying evolve for garbage f2p stuff they could go to uwe aswell as thousands of people coming to this dying game.
  • dePARAdePARA Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2011-04-29 Member: 96321Posts: 1,351 Advanced user
    Did i mentioned naive?
    I guess so.
    image
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,468 Advanced user
    1. Give it a month. Then look at Evolve's player numbers again. I promise you they will be significantly lower.
    2. Ns2 needs proper matchmaking before going f2p. Once it gets it I'm all for it.
    3.
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure if the combat devs ever come by the forums any more, but if they do HEAR MY PLEA! Make combat f2p! It makes so much more sense for combat to be f2p than it does ns2.

    This is not a decision for the combat devs to make. This is UWE's decision. UWE decided against it.
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    coolitic
  • The_Welsh_WizardThe_Welsh_Wizard Members, Reinforced - Supporter Join Date: 2013-09-10 Member: 188101Posts: 773 Advanced user
    1. Give it a month. Then look at Evolve's player numbers again. I promise you they will be significantly lower.
    2. Ns2 needs proper matchmaking before going f2p. Once it gets it I'm all for it.
    3.
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure if the combat devs ever come by the forums any more, but if they do HEAR MY PLEA! Make combat f2p! It makes so much more sense for combat to be f2p than it does ns2.

    This is not a decision for the combat devs to make. This is UWE's decision. UWE decided against it.

    Depends what exactly matchmaking would do. If it means removal of community servers, then gg NS2.
    NordicSantaClawscoolitic
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    Give it a month. Then look at Evolve's player numbers again. I promise you they will be significantly lower.
    i know its only 11.000 for the time being but if ns2 was free 11.000 new players would not hurt, even if its just a month then drops to 3000, still better then 300 and game over at end of this year.
  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    RadimaX wrote: »
    Nordic wrote: »
    Player retention has been improved, the tutorial was improved, and game performance has improved.
    I think early next year would be a good time to make NS2 free 2 play, but that is just my opinion.

    Retention improved? (im not sure if we cant get more then 300 players? even after steam sales and me giving away copys to friends for free then im not sure whats wrong.
    Training courses or trackcourse for every lifeform or regular marine/exo/jetpack would maybe help people to understand it more? forgot what UWE they teach us already.
    You are mistaking concurrent players for player retention. NS2 actually still A LOT of players buying the game and trying it. Nearly all of them leave in the 20 hours of gameplay.
    Player retention has improved, that is how many new players stay after first playing the game. I don't know the actual number that has increased, but player retention did increase.

    Going F2P, like evolve has, increased concurrent players. Concurrent players does have an effect on player retention, in that if there are more people playing, more people will keep playing the game.

    2. Ns2 needs proper matchmaking before going f2p. Once it gets it I'm all for it.
    Matchmaking is tricky. It is a chicken and egg problem. You need the high concurrent playerbase to have matchmaking. You are saying you need matchmaking, to have a high concurrent playerbase.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • LastdonLastdon Members Join Date: 2012-06-29 Member: 153767Posts: 67 Advanced user
    There will never be 10K NS2 players.

    NS2 has gotten worse over time the hit registration and clipping issues are as bad now as they were pre reinforcement. Allowing all the meddling with the engine by people who are not familiar with it has made server performance abysmal.

    Attempting to make connection with any one that has a ping higher then 100 puts RNG into this game. This make playing the game not fun at all.

    They add NS 1 features into the game and act as if they have made some great change to the game. They should have left NS2 vanilla alone and made all their changes mod content. Instead UWE gave them the reigns and it has shown how truly bad the Spark engine performance is.

    I'm sure the server argument will come out, all that proves is UWE was wrong on their evaluation on what type of game people would rather play. It turns out people prefer the higher player counts.

    In NS1, combat and siege modes satisfied this thirst but do to how bad the performance is in the Spark engine those modes are not feasibly playable.
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    Lastdon wrote: »
    They should have left NS2 vanilla alone and made all their changes mod content.

    Been saying that since they opted to go forward with the "retention" plans, but alas it's too little too late now...


    Also Ns2 is still a far ways away from casual, so even if retention has improved, it still not enough to casualize the casuals during casual time. The game still pisses off way to many newbies who just want a run and gun game with aliens vs marines. But NS2 never was that to begin with, even tinkering the hell out of it to appease both to hardcore quakers and casual TF2/Overwatch gamers, they are quite literally at the opposite spectrum of what they want from a game.

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  • SupaDupaNoodleSupaDupaNoodle Members Join Date: 2003-01-12 Member: 12232Posts: 495 Advanced user
    I was strongly against F2P in the past. However I think that this is a risk we should take.

    Waiting to see what happens to Evolve's F2P player base might seem reasonable, but remember that Evolve is not NS2. You would be comparing apples to oranges.

    Free the game! It would be nice to see more players and more servers up and running.
    SupaDupaNoodle
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    (Ribo @ Jan 2 2013, 10:43 AM) wrote »
     ##EMPHASIS ADDED##
    Ok, here is the problem. Every game, the aliens,in a pack, harass the marines to slowdown resource captures. The aliens save up for invisible, double armor rhinos. Everyone evolves into an invisible double armor rhino. The marines lose.


    Also, a good rule of thumb is that a rookie is equivalent to an empty player slot on a team.

  • Mattk50Mattk50 Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2013-02-04 Member: 182824Posts: 264 Fully active user
    The game has been on sale for 1 dollar so many times its already being played by people with interest, you might get children without credit cards but even those already have steam trading cards and its not hard to get a dollar of steam wallet funds without paying. I dont know how much it will help.

    I think a more pressing issue is the game is rapidly being disassembled and remade by the new b-team devs. A game so old as this needs to stay consistant, counter strike didn't last as long as it has by adding healthbars and messing up the core gameplay loop over and over.
    The_Welsh_Wizardcooliticumdum9BestProfileName
  • borsdyborsdy Respawning againMembers, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2013-09-20 Member: 188366Posts: 31 Advanced user
    BeigeAlert wrote: »
    Keep in mind, guys, Evolve only went F2P TODAY... yes, they got a LOT of new players, but how long are they going to stick around for? Give it a month, and then draw your conclusions.
    I do hope that everyone still involved is keeping a close eye on the new world we are entering, I kno you guys do so much for the game but please don't get lost and leave this game in the dust in a year or whatever length of span it takes for the new generation of users to forget about good games that are available to play
  • NovoReiNovoRei USMembers Join Date: 2014-11-18 Member: 199718Posts: 83 Advanced user
    NS2 needs Combat with capture points before going f2p.
  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    I was strongly against F2P in the past. However I think that this is a risk we should take.

    free 2 play games always have a buy wall, but concider the price of ns2 it was 22€ before and now 9€ however that is a price to pay just for installing the game you know nothing about with dying playerbase of 300. Evolve already lost 2000 players since they realized how bad the original game was, they are destined to fail unlike ns2 which still a good solid game.

    Nobody reccomends a game like that however they could reccomend a nice free alien vs marine shooter with 5000+ people and sick skins and dank decals to go spend the same money on ingame because they did not get charged upfront, i played f2p warframe but it can still be fun because you are discovering new things even if you dont buy stuff to lvl up.

  • RadimaXRadimaX Members Join Date: 2013-02-05 Member: 182840Posts: 587 Advanced user
    edited July 2016
    Nordic wrote: »
    You are mistaking concurrent players for player retention. but player retention did increase.

    If you see something im missing plz show me how many players you keep or retain because for half a year this game have plummited
    QXSOBgG.png
    i might be mistaken but explain what im missing when i look on ALL the numbers not only Peak players they speak for themselves:
    Avg Players - goes negative
    Gain - goes negative
    % Gain - goes negative
    Peak players - goes negative









  • NordicNordic Long term camping in KodiakMembers, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2012-05-13 Member: 151995Posts: 4,771 Advanced user
    I'm sorry radimax, but the data is proprietary to UWE. Remi did post some graphs of it here.
    From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! AustraliaMembers, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Posts: 2,130 mod
    edited July 2016
    Ns2 hasn't reached what one would call a "death spiral", so f2p isn't a necessarium for keeping the game alive, IMO.
    I don't think it would bring in enough players to justify all the hackers that will come with.

    Having another f2p weekend would be fantastic though. Would definitely give UWE a nice spike in revenue, and the rest of us more scrubs to shoot/eat. :3
    Send me a private message if you need me to kill someone "help" with anything.

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  • MephillesMephilles GermanyMembers, NS2 Map Tester, NS2 Community Developer Join Date: 2013-08-07 Member: 186634Posts: 972 Advanced user
    could anyone explain why a matchmaking system running parallel to community servers wouldn't work?
    return to zero
    Vetinari
  • VetinariVetinari Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver Join Date: 2013-07-23 Member: 186325Posts: 3,468 Advanced user
    1. Give it a month. Then look at Evolve's player numbers again. I promise you they will be significantly lower.
    2. Ns2 needs proper matchmaking before going f2p. Once it gets it I'm all for it.
    3.
    _Grendel_ wrote: »
    I'm not sure if the combat devs ever come by the forums any more, but if they do HEAR MY PLEA! Make combat f2p! It makes so much more sense for combat to be f2p than it does ns2.

    This is not a decision for the combat devs to make. This is UWE's decision. UWE decided against it.

    Depends what exactly matchmaking would do. If it means removal of community servers, then gg NS2.

    Matchmaking and a server browser are not exclusive. I don't know why everyone keeps thinking that. You can easily have both.
    Nordic wrote: »
    Matchmaking is tricky. It is a chicken and egg problem. You need the high concurrent playerbase to have matchmaking. You are saying you need matchmaking, to have a high concurrent playerbase.

    What I mean is that a matchmaking system should be developed and put in place before a foreseeable influx in new players instead of after. Of course it will take some time to balance itself, but then again, so does every other game with matchmaking at release, too.
    formerly known as F0rdPrefect

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